Slipping Floor Mat?

[RX400h]

A local (San Diego) man and his family were killed when the 09 ES350 he was driving careened out of control when (according to the news story) its accelerator pedal became jammed under the carpet. Apparently, the start button must be pressed for 3 seconds before the car will shut down? Is this true? The car was a loaner from a local dealership and my guess is that the CHP officer who was driving, did not know how to shut the car down using this method.

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local-beat...h-56629472.html

I'm sorry if this was posted previously; I didn't see it when I looked.

[peteanello]

A local (San Diego) man and his family were killed when the 09 ES350 he was driving careened out of control when (according to the news story) its accelerator pedal became jammed under the carpet. Apparently, the start button must be pressed for 3 seconds before the car will shut down? Is this true? The car was a loaner from a local dealership and my guess is that the CHP officer who was driving, did not know how to shut the car down using this method.

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local-beat...h-56629472.html

I'm sorry if this was posted previously; I didn't see it when I looked.

I drive an '09 ES350, and was unaware you can kill the engine (at freeway speeds) by pressing the start button for 3 seconds. Good to know if it works. I wonder if you lose your power steering and power brakes?

How about putting the car in neutral, is that possible? Or slowly applying and holding down the E-brake.

I know all of the loaners I've had over the years, the Dealer flips the mats upside down so they don't get dirty. I wonder if that played a role?

Where in the story do you see that it was an ES350? Or did you read it elsewhere.

Our '04 RX was recalled for an issue with the mat potentially interfering with the accelerator.

[1990LS400]

Sounds fishy. Maybe it was a murder/suicide. A CHP can't so stupid or untrained that he doesn't know how to downshift an/or put the car into neutal and/or slam on the brakes. And his wife even had time to make a 911 call while the car is careening out of control? Give me a break, or maybe I should say "brake". Either this was murder/suicide or someone earned a Darwin Award. Yes, I'm being cruel.

[RX400h]

The story was also in our local paper and it was there that the car model was listed. In fact, I recently used an 09 ES350 from the same dealership (from where we bought our RX400h). Fortunately, I had no reason to floor the accelerator at any time while it was in my pocession. I did have this happen when I had a 1968 Corvette, quite a few years ago. It was a harrowing experience, to say the least.

I'll bet the driver wasn't thinking correctly, as he had probably never had this type of thing happen before.

[peteanello]

I just learned you have to hold down the start button for 6 seconds to kill the engine.

I just discovered an interesting web site: autocoverup.com

Let me know what you think. I think it was a mechanical issue. The electronics won't let you put the engine in neutral or downshift and the brakes don't work either under "sudden unintended/uncontrolled acceleration"

[1990LS400]

The electronics won't let you put the engine in neutral or downshift and the brakes don't work either under "sudden unintended/uncontrolled acceleration"

Have you verified this? Try moving the shifter of your ES350 into neutral and stomping on the brakes while you are flooring the gas pedal. Report back to us on the results.

[peteanello]

Sounds fishy. Maybe it was a murder/suicide. A CHP can't so stupid or untrained that he doesn't know how to downshift an/or put the car into neutal and/or slam on the brakes. And his wife even had time to make a 911 call while the car is careening out of control? Give me a break, or maybe I should say "brake". Either this was murder/suicide or someone earned a Darwin Award. Yes, I'm being cruel.

Trust me, this guy did everything in his power to prevent this accident. He was a driving instructor at the CHP Academy (at one point in his career), so I'm sure he went through a lengthly mental checklist (just like a pilot) of what to do in this situation.

Only thing that wasn't on his checklist (I'm sure) was pressing the start button for 6 seconds. Who would know that?

[peteanello]

The electronics won't let you put the engine in neutral or downshift and the brakes don't work either under "sudden unintended/uncontrolled acceleration"

Have you verified this? Try moving the shifter of your ES350 into neutral and stomping on the brakes while you are flooring the gas pedal. Report back to us on the results.

I'm sure the brakes will work, but I don't know about shifting into neutral.

The previous reports of problems indicates that during unintended acceleration the dash board brake warning light comes on and the brake pedal is impossible to apply. Stiff as a brick.

And, I don't want to take a chance on !Removed! up my engine/transmission by shifting into neutral during full acceleration.

[1990LS400]

I'm sure the brakes will work, but I don't know about shifting into neutral.

The previous reports of problems indicates that during unintended acceleration the dash board brake warning light comes on and the brake pedal is impossible to apply. Stiff as a brick.

And, I don't want to take a chance on !Removed! up my engine/transmission by shifting into neutral during full acceleration.

If you were willing to try these actions, you would find that they would work to bring the car to a halt with little drama except perhaps an engine screaming at maximum RPM -- but who would care if that is what is required to bring a car to a stop.

[RX400h]

I agree that most people wouldn't know to press the start button for 6 seconds to cut off a runaway engine. With an ordinary mechanical ignition switch, you'd simply turn the key.

If the shift lever could be moved into the neutral gate, I'm sure a rev-limiter would prevent the engine from blowing up.

[peteanello]

I'm sure the brakes will work, but I don't know about shifting into neutral.

The previous reports of problems indicates that during unintended acceleration the dash board brake warning light comes on and the brake pedal is impossible to apply. Stiff as a brick.

And, I don't want to take a chance on !Removed! up my engine/transmission by shifting into neutral during full acceleration.

If you were willing to try these actions, you would find that they would work to bring the car to a halt with little drama except perhaps an engine screaming at maximum RPM -- but who would care if that is what is required to bring a car to a stop.

I agree, the brakes will definitely work and I could probably shift into neutral. BUT, the problem apparently is when this situation (unintended acceleration)occurs, then all bets are off. The electronics that control the brakes and transmission no longer work.

[peteanello]

Not sure if this is appropriate, but I copied it off a San Diego News Station Web Site:

In response to rotorpilot56, there have been numerous reports of certain Toyota models with a sticking throttle (most notably the Lexus ES350). While Toyota continues to blame it on the "All Weather Floormat" becoming stuck under the pedal, the story from people who have experienced this say that it is literally impossible to brake, moving the gear selector does absolutely nothing, and they insist that the floormat is NOT becoming jammed under the pedal. On some accounts, the issue arose specifically while the cruise control was activated. On most of the posts I have read about the topic, the pedal moves away from the foot, planting itself to the floor. It would make sense that some kind of fault lies within the electrical system/computers. Power steering is absolutely unnecessary while at freeway speeds, but according to Lexus the steering wheel will lock up as soon as power is removed from the system (never tried this myself, I trust them). I wrote in another post other details about the ES350, most specifically the EBD system which will directly affect brake pressure (as I understand, essentially an electronic distribution block), and of course the fact that the transmission is fully electronically actuated. The normal procedure for stopping a Lexus with push-button start is just a foot on the brake and a quick tap to the button. While the vehicle is in motion, you must hold the button for three seconds before it will turn off. As we know, things happen fast at high-speed, and even the most calm and collected person could easily overlook something like that (not to mention, many Lexus owners are not even aware of this feature). Anyone who has driven a newer Lexus or Prius understands that there is a learning curve. I have no idea what kind of car Officer Saylor owned, but remeber this ES350 was loaned to him while his car was in for service. Toyota really needs to take a step back and takes this problem seriously. My deepest condolences to the family and friends

[RX400h]

I agree. It doesn't seem like this was a one-time occurance.

[NicLX470]

Wow. There was a post a while back about an IS doing the same thing and I have heard of the ES doing it also. I doubt they will be able to tell anything from the crispy car but this will most likely spawn an investigation for Lexus whether they are willing or not. I'm curious to see what happens.

[peteanello]

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/200...sh-probe/?metro

Looks like the NHTSA is assisting in the investigation and preliminarily they are saying the accelerator may have stuck in an all weather mat.

I have a hunch. I bet the dealer removes the fabric mats from its loaner cars and temporarily replaces them with all weather mats. This way when they sell the loaner vehicle they can put the brand new fabric mats back in the car and then rotate the all weather mats into another loaner and repeat this process because all weather mats are easily cleaned.

We don't know if the loaner vehicle had the recalled all weather mats or the new ones. Apparently the recalled mats, if not properly installed, could shift forward underneath the gas pedal. Then if you put the pedal to the floor, the design of the rubberized ribs in the mat would catch and trap the bottom of the pedal just as if you had the pedal floored. The newer mats resolved this issue.

I gues the driver only had about 2 minutes, driving 100-120mph, to decide what to do while weaving around cars and avoiding accidents.

The driver over used the brakes (pumping them too many times) causing them to overheat and fail.

In this situation (not caused by electronic failure) the brakes will work until they are overheated and I bet the transmission gear selector could have been moved into neutral. Why it wasn't, we will probably never know.

[poncherello]

Wow. There was a post a while back about an IS doing the same thing and I have heard of the ES doing it also. I doubt they will be able to tell anything from the crispy car but this will most likely spawn an investigation for Lexus whether they are willing or not. I'm curious to see what happens.

There's a recall for 07 and 08 models with the all weather mats, I wonder if this car had the all weather mats:

Campaign Number: 07E082000

Number of Vehicles Affected: 55,000

Model Years Affected: 2007

Date Owner Notified: 10/2007

Defect Summary: CERTAIN ALL WEATHER FLOOR MATS (AWFM) SPECIFICALLY SOLD AS AN OPTIONAL ACCESSORY FOR USE ON THE 2007 AND 2008 MODEL YEAR LEXUS ES350 AND TOYOTA CAMRY VEHICLES. THE AWFM INCLUDES TWO GROMMET HOLES AND RETAINING HOOKS (CLIPS) TO SECURE THE MAT TO THE VEHICLE'S CARPET. IF THE AWFM IS NOT SECURED BY ITSELF OR IF IT IS PLACED ON TOP OF AN EXISTING CARPETING FLOOR MAT, THE MAT COULD MOVE FORWARD DURING THE VEHICLE USAGE AND IT MAY INTERFERE WITH THE ACCELERATOR PEDAL.

Consequence Summary: THE ACCELERATOR PEDAL MAY TEMPORARILY BECOME STUCK IN A PARTIALLY DEPRESSED POSITION WHEN RETURNING TO THE IDLE POSITION. IF THIS CONDITION OCCURS, IT MAY INCREASE THE POSSIBILITY OF A CRASH.

Corrective Summary: TOYOTA WILL NOTIFY OWNERS OF ALL 2007 AND 2008 LEXUS ES350 AND TOYOTA CAMRY VEHICLES ABOUT THE RECALL EVEN THOUGH NOT ALL OF THESE OWNERS WILL HAVE PURCHASED THE ALL WEATHER MATS. IF THE OWNER HAD NOT PURCHASED THE MATS, THEY ARE NOT AFFECTED BY THE RECALL. THIS LETTER WILL ADVISE OWNERS WHEN REPLACEMENT MATS WILL BE AVAILABLE OR HOW TO RETURN THE ALL WEATHER FLOOR MAT SET TO OBTAIN A REFUND. A SECOND LETTER WILL BE SENT AFTER MATS ARE AVAILABLE REQUESTING OWNERS TO RETURN THEIR MATS TO A LEXUS OR TOYOTA DEALER FOR EXCHANGE OF THE DRIVER'S SIDE MAT. THE FIRST LETTER IS EXPECTED TO BE SENT DURING EARLY OCTOBER 2007 AND THE SECOND IN LATE NOVEMBER 2007. OWNERS CAN CONTACT THE LEXUS CUSTOMER ASSISTANCE CENTER AT 1-800-255-3987 OR THE TOYOTA CUSTOMER EXPERIENCE CENTER AT 1-888-270-9371.