dj90laser Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 Just bought a 91 LS400 from the original owner.185,980 and looks like it was bought new yesterday. He had it serviced regulary at the Toyota/Lexus Dealer here in Lincoln. When I got it he told me the p/s had started getting stiff . It was really stiff. But for $2500 I thought it was a great deal. Put some lucas in to see if that would help . It did but now on start up it smokes for aminute then stops . But if you let it set for any lenght of time and start it up again it smokes . Since I put the p/s fluid in it has done this and it has no leaks anywhere oil or p/s fluid. But the p/s fluid keeps getting low. have filled it up 3 times . And the TRAC OFF light just came on . It is the only light on and it is constantly on . Really like the car and dont want to take it to the dealer to get fixed $$$$$$$$. If its only the p/s that needs changed I can do that . This is my first Lexus and am kinda lost on all the electrical. Does anyone have any ideas. Thanks Dale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
90LS400Lexus Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 Hi - welcome to the club! I also have a '91 LS400 with 219K and I have noticed recently (especially thing morning and again when I left work this afternoon) it smoked on startup.... quite embarrasing. Ironically I then pulled out behind a '91 Toyota Tercel (biggest Toyota vs. the smallest that year) and it was boiling smoke too, but it was oil smoke. Those cars have a history of oil burning. I think my smoke is from the power steering as well, because I dont lose one drop of oil between changes and I do have PS pump leaks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj90laser Posted May 14, 2009 Author Share Posted May 14, 2009 Like yours mine also dosent have any oil loss or drips anywhere under the car. I took off the plastic belly pan and it to was like new clean . but the p/s fluid is still going down slowley. I am almost thinking of letting it go for a few days to see if it stops smoking . If it does I think it might be in the p/s system, But I dont know how its getting through the exhaust if it is . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curiousB Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 You added PS fluid 3 times over what period of time and much much in total do you think you've added? I haven't added any in 50K miles so your usage sounds extreme. So extreme there has to be fluid on the underside somewhere. It isn't disappearing. Maybe plastic pan under engine is hiding the leak and you should remove it to get a better look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
90LS400Lexus Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 Like yours mine also dosent have any oil loss or drips anywhere under the car. I took off the plastic belly pan and it to was like new clean . but the p/s fluid is still going down slowley. I am almost thinking of letting it go for a few days to see if it stops smoking . If it does I think it might be in the p/s system, But I dont know how its getting through the exhaust if it is . My pan underneath is soiled with fluid... I have an external leak as well. In the winter it leaks like a seive. Not as bad in hot/warm weather. I tried Lucas too, but it didnt help at all. :( Sounds like you only have an internal leak at that valve. It can be bypassed... there is a tutorial here on how to do it. You added PS fluid 3 times over what period of time and much much in total do you think you've added? I haven't added any in 50K miles so your usage sounds extreme. So extreme there has to be fluid on the underside somewhere. It isn't disappearing. Maybe plastic pan under engine is hiding the leak and you should remove it to get a better look. You have to add PS fluid to your 2004 LS430? Or do you have an older LS as well? <_< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj90laser Posted May 14, 2009 Author Share Posted May 14, 2009 Have added probably 3 quarts in the last 10 days and it still looks low . How much does the p/s system hold? The belly pan I did remove and it was spotless. Along with the bottom of the motor there was no leaks any where. Can the p/s be leaking internally and going through the motor or exhaust somehow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curiousB Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 3 quarts in 10 days? Wow! There has to be major signs of leaking. That is a BIG leak. It might not be the pump. Maybe get a big piece of clean cardboard and put it under the car front. Then start it up and have someone turn wheel lock to lock a couple times. This may allow you to see leak. Put on emergency brake and maybe some blocks on rear wheels to be safe. Look at all the hoses (supply and return) and the connections and also the rack and pinion assembly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
90LS400Lexus Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 3 quarts in 10 days? Wow! There has to be major signs of leaking. That is a BIG leak. It might not be the pump. Maybe get a big piece of clean cardboard and put it under the car front. Then start it up and have someone turn wheel lock to lock a couple times. This may allow you to see leak. Put on emergency brake and maybe some blocks on rear wheels to be safe. Look at all the hoses (supply and return) and the connections and also the rack and pinion assembly. You have to add PS fluid to your 2004 LS430? Or do you have an older LS as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curiousB Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 I have never added a drop although dealer checks it at regular services. Dude, your fluid loss is extreme. Nowhere near normal usage. You must have a serious leak somewhere. It isn't getting burnt up in the engine. I would think you garage floor would have a serious puddle on it with that kind of leakage. If the pump is dry then look to the hydraulic lines, especially the connections or look for a leak in the rack and pinion system. You may find it something simple like a loose fitting or a cracked hose. A new pump wouldn’t be the end of the world. A rebuilt rack and pinion could be pricey….. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpellet Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 I had the same issues when I purchased my 91. Really stiff steering and p/s fluid loss. The 1st gen models are notorious for the power steering issues. I wound up replacing the rack, pump and high pressure line (Big bill $2600) but still had smoke on start up. I Just disconnected the valve by pluggin the hoses. 1 runs to the intake (just after MAF) and the other runs to the front of the plenum. Plug em off and that will be the end of the smoke. You will not even notice the valves not working anymore. There's only one place for the fluid to go, right on the ground or your cover. Perhaps the engine and cover were cleaned prior to listing the vehicle for sale, if it's the pump the fluid will drop right on your alternator and cause it to fail eventually as well, this may be the cause of your "TRAC OFF" issue. Have it inspected but don't authorize any repairs, this way you will know whats going on and you have the option of performing the work yourself. I have done the starter and the timing belt/water pump and those are major jobs, I still would'nt take on the steering system, way to much work. If you do... Make sure to lock up your steering wheel before disassembling. IF you don;t your sure to break the clock spring making even more work. Best of luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj90laser Posted May 14, 2009 Author Share Posted May 14, 2009 You guys might think im crazy but there is no fluid anywhere I took the bottom plastic pan off and looked all around with the car running and no fluid anywhere. What the hell. I cant seem to figure it out . Does the p/s system take more than 3 quarts ? I haven tput any more in sience the last time and it looks a little low , but im not sure if I should Put any more in . And as for the ground I park in the same spot every day and I just bought the house bran new 1st owner and the driveway is spotless even after I have parked there for the last 2 weeks. I will try the valve blocking. What am I actually blocking off? Thanks fro all the help guys . Hope I can return the favor . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbshome Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 If you have no external leaks but constantly need to add fluid, it is getting sucked into the intake. The pump has an idle control valve that is vacuum operated. The valve leaks after a while and pulls ps fluid into the intake and burns it. Replace the valve or remove it and seal the port off. The valve is not needed for operation. Probably best to just replace the pump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curiousB Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 If you have no external leaks but constantly need to add fluid, it is getting sucked into the intake. The pump has an idle control valve that is vacuum operated. The valve leaks after a while and pulls ps fluid into the intake and burns it. Replace the valve or remove it and seal the port off. The valve is not needed for operation. Probably best to just replace the pump. That might explain things. As a temporary test could you just put a clamp on the hose (I assume it is rubber) to stop the vacuum to the PS Pump valve to see if the steering fluid usage drops? Wouldn't be permanent but after 1-2 weeks and if PS fluid stays steady then at least you know you're attacking the right problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
90LS400Lexus Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 (Big bill $2600) Wow, I would be lucky to sell my entire car for $2600. <_< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbshome Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 Follow the two vacuum lines from the pump to the intake and just disconnect them. Then use a golf tee to plug each line and also plug the intake ports so you don't create a vacuum leak. When I replaced my pump upon disconnecting the lines from the pump, fluid poured out. Check if any fluid is in the lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbshome Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 Follow the two vacuum lines from the pump to the intake and just disconnect them. Then use a golf tee to plug each line and also plug the intake ports so you don't create a vacuum leak. When I replaced my pump upon disconnecting the lines from the pump, fluid poured out. Check if any fluid is in the lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldskewel Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 If you notice white smoke coming out the tailpipes on startup, it could be a problem with an air valve on the PS pump. Check out my posts in this thread: http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index...rt=#entry359221 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curiousB Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 Nice post oldskewel. This looks very relevant. I see the part at www.parts.com is priced at $70.48 so not excessive. The pump is $414.05 so not as bad as a pump. There seems to be some discussion on this forum and elsewhere that this valve is not really needed and you can just disconnect and plug permanently (both ends). What is your take on that as a permanent solution? dj90laser you were right all along. PS fluid can do a Houdini on this car. 1763016040 $70.48 Emission system - Emission components - Air cntrl valve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldskewel Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 Nice post oldskewel. This looks very relevant. I see the part at www.parts.com is priced at $70.48 so not excessive. The pump is $414.05 so not as bad as a pump.There seems to be some discussion on this forum and elsewhere that this valve is not really needed and you can just disconnect and plug permanently (both ends). What is your take on that as a permanent solution? dj90laser you were right all along. PS fluid can do a Houdini on this car. 1763016040 $70.48 Emission system - Emission components - Air cntrl valve If it were my car, I'd replace the part. This was actually the last repair done on my car before I bought it. I've seen a few theories regarding the purpose of this valve. Referring to the 1991 LS400 manual, page SR-92, this valve is referred to as the "Idle-up Device": ========================= "IDLE-UP DEVICE" "The pump produces the maximum fluid pressure when the steering wheel is turned fully to the right or left and, at this time, there is a maximum load on the pump which causes a decrease in engine idle rpm. To solve this problem, vehicles are equipped with an idle-up device which acts to raise the engine idle rpm whenever there is a heavy load on the pump. "On EFI engines, when the piston of the air control valve is pushed by fluid pressure, the air valve opens and the volume of air by-passing the throttle valve is increased to regulate engine rpm. "The idle-up device functions to raise engine idle rpm when pump fluid pressure acts on the air control valve, installed to the pump body, to control the flow of air." ========================= So it looks like the principal difference you'd get by replacing the part vs. plugging it is that you'd get the rpms boosted when needed. This would give your PS more power when parking, etc., but even if you don't mind the extra arm-strength required, it also may prevent the engine from stalling. I recall seeing a thread about someone who had some other weird problem (engine-PS related) that went away when this valve was replaced. Also, by the time you've done all the work to get the bad valve out, you may as well put this relatively cheap part in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj90laser Posted May 25, 2009 Author Share Posted May 25, 2009 Thanks Guys That is exactly what was wrong I plugged off the two hoses and no more smoke . I will get a new pump and take care of all the problems that are there and have the piece of mind that I should be good for a few years down the road on the p/s . Thanks Again hope I can help in the fucture. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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