Engine Oil Leaks

[Dhannu]

Hi,

Following is my Issue.

2000 / Rx300 /124000 Miles/Bay Area /CA

Recently noticed that there is a leak from the engine and at the same time had a check engine flashing.

Dealer suggested to change the Ignition Coil.

Replaced for $ 500.00 .

Dealer suggested "A Possible Rear Main Seal" could cause the leak of the engine Oil .

To replace it costs around $2000.00.

Need your help if this is reasonable or just run it by topping the oil when ever required.

At times it smels the burning oil.

Any suggetions or Low cost mechanic close to Bay Area is greatly appreciated.

[lenore]

Probably wouldnt hurt anything to try Auto RX and see if the leak diminishes. Somewhere I read it helps. As for the seal replacement, way to high. A tranny shop would probably do it cheaper.....(independent) The transmission does have to be dropped off. You smell burning oi, are you sure it is from the main, or is it from valve covers, dripping down.....

[blk_on_blk]

Not only is the seal replacement too high, that coil replacement is offensive! $500 to replace a faulty coil pack (and I highly doubt it's more than one). I have replaced several (5 minute fix on the front bank, 20 minutes on the rear) for $40/each with good used parts... 20K miles later and no worries! $500... the dealership should be ashamed.

I believe to have my transmission removed and replaced was $1600 in labor. I think that is essentially what they'll have to do to get to the rear main seal and replace it. This is a common failure in our vehicles of this vintage/miles.

Good call, Lenore, to check and see if the oil drippage is coming from the valve cover rather than the rear main seal... a MUCH easier repair.

I don't know if Auto-RX will help. I think the idea is that Auto-RX slightly causes the seals to swell, and could reseal the leak... but if it is the rear main seal, then the failure is wear, and usually they are pretty hammered by the time they start to leak. A slight swelling of the seal probably won't bring it back (but I could be wrong).

[code58]

Hi,

Following is my Issue.

2000 / Rx300 /124000 Miles/Bay Area /CA

Recently noticed that there is a leak from the engine and at the same time had a check engine flashing.

Dealer suggested to change the Ignition Coil.

Replaced for $ 500.00 .

Dealer suggested "A Possible Rear Main Seal" could cause the leak of the engine Oil .

To replace it costs around $2000.00.

Need your help if this is reasonable or just run it by topping the oil when ever required.

At times it smels the burning oil.

Any suggetions or Low cost mechanic close to Bay Area is greatly appreciated.

You guys that live in the Bay area and the Pacific Northwest have some high labor rates.( I already knew that) When I did my DIL's RX rear main seal, I was given an unsolicited (I had intended to do it) quote from someone I worked with from an independent mechanic he knew that had done them. He said the guy would do it for $750. This was shop, not back alley. I still feel the prices for R&Ring the transmission are exorbitant. I think I bought the seal online for about $15. or less, original equipment.

Edit: I definitely agree with Lenore on all points. I would invest the price of a can or two (couple oil changes) of Auto-Rx and see if that does the job. The cost of that compared to the dealers $2000. price is a no-brainer. It MIGHT work!

[code58]

Not only is the seal replacement too high, that coil replacement is offensive! $500 to replace a faulty coil pack (and I highly doubt it's more than one). I have replaced several (5 minute fix on the front bank, 20 minutes on the rear) for $40/each with good used parts... 20K miles later and no worries! $500... the dealership should be ashamed.

I believe to have my transmission removed and replaced was $1600 in labor. I think that is essentially what they'll have to do to get to the rear main seal and replace it. This is a common failure in our vehicles of this vintage/miles.

Good call, Lenore, to check and see if the oil drippage is coming from the valve cover rather than the rear main seal... a MUCH easier repair.

I don't know if Auto-RX will help. I think the idea is that Auto-RX slightly causes the seals to swell, and could reseal the leak... but if it is the rear main seal, then the failure is wear, and usually they are pretty hammered by the time they start to leak. A slight swelling of the seal probably won't bring it back (but I could be wrong).

blk_on_blk- I agree with you, the seal is quite worn by the time it is leaking that much, but my experience from doing the change is that the hope is, it would SOFTEN the seal and maybe take away the crud that is BAKED on it. That thing gets hard as a rock and actually wears into the CS because of the hardness and what gets cooked onto it. (like sandpaper) If it could actually soften and revitalize the rubber, it might do some good. If I was staring at a $2000. job for replacement, I think I would use anything that promised some help, as long as it wasn't snake oil, and I don't think A-RX is snake oil. At least it couldn't do his engine any harm and probably some good. If those seals were as hard when new as they are when they need replacing, they wouldn't seal even when new.

[blk_on_blk]

Hey, it's definitely worth a try... and I agree Auto-RX wouldn't be considered snake oil. Did you know it was actually originally designed as an in situ cleaning process for printing presses? Auto-RX patent info

[pauljcl]

Hi,

Following is my Issue.

2000 / Rx300 /124000 Miles/Bay Area /CA

Recently noticed that there is a leak from the engine and at the same time had a check engine flashing.

Dealer suggested to change the Ignition Coil.

Replaced for $ 500.00 .

Dealer suggested "A Possible Rear Main Seal" could cause the leak of the engine Oil .

To replace it costs around $2000.00.

Need your help if this is reasonable or just run it by topping the oil when ever required.

At times it smels the burning oil.

Any suggetions or Low cost mechanic close to Bay Area is greatly appreciated.

I had the same problem. To check whether it is the rear engine seal, you wipe around the seal, let it 'sit' for a short while and see whether a 'drop' forms or whether the seal is again humid and a wipe yields a very oily rag. If you wipe well at atrt, it is quite evident where the oil comes from when it re-appears. Of course, you can try anything to 'revitalize' the seal, but my experience (based on stories heard) is that, even if seems to succeed, it is only delaying tactic and the problem re-appears within a short whole. [i would try it anyway: low cost, no downside]. The cost to change the rear engine seal, which I bore on my own after Lexus 'respectfully declined to assist', at the Toyota dealer in Traverse City (no Lexus dealer in TC) was $1,600. My RX300 was AWD. I was told that a FWD is less expensive, i.e. around $1,200. -- If you have proof of all services done at Lexus in a timely fashion, you should speak to Lexus Customer Service: they are more likely to 'make a deal' with a Lexus dealer and you could face lower costs. They cannot 'make deals' with Toyota dealers, and they opted - in my case - to not reimburse anything.

[code58]

Hi,

Following is my Issue.

2000 / Rx300 /124000 Miles/Bay Area /CA

Recently noticed that there is a leak from the engine and at the same time had a check engine flashing.

Dealer suggested to change the Ignition Coil.

Replaced for $ 500.00 .

Dealer suggested "A Possible Rear Main Seal" could cause the leak of the engine Oil .

To replace it costs around $2000.00.

Need your help if this is reasonable or just run it by topping the oil when ever required.

At times it smels the burning oil.

Any suggetions or Low cost mechanic close to Bay Area is greatly appreciated.

I had the same problem. To check whether it is the rear engine seal, you wipe around the seal, let it 'sit' for a short while and see whether a 'drop' forms or whether the seal is again humid and a wipe yields a very oily rag. If you wipe well at atrt, it is quite evident where the oil comes from when it re-appears. Of course, you can try anything to 'revitalize' the seal, but my experience (based on stories heard) is that, even if seems to succeed, it is only delaying tactic and the problem re-appears within a short whole. [i would try it anyway: low cost, no downside]. The cost to change the rear engine seal, which I bore on my own after Lexus 'respectfully declined to assist', at the Toyota dealer in Traverse City (no Lexus dealer in TC) was $1,600. My RX300 was AWD. I was told that a FWD is less expensive, i.e. around $1,200. -- If you have proof of all services done at Lexus in a timely fashion, you should speak to Lexus Customer Service: they are more likely to 'make a deal' with a Lexus dealer and you could face lower costs. They cannot 'make deals' with Toyota dealers, and they opted - in my case - to not reimburse anything.

I agree Paul that it is a long shot and not a long term solution, even if it worked. Just thought that a couple of treatments for $50. or so as compared to $2000. for replacement was an easy decision, especially since it would be good for the engine. I would certainly hope that Dhannu would be able to get it done for less than $2000. in an independent shop. We have some excellent independent shops in our area, both Lexus and other foreign brands. They are almost always started and staffed with ex-dealer mechanics and at a lot less than Lexus dealer prices.

[code58]

Hey, it's definitely worth a try... and I agree Auto-RX wouldn't be considered snake oil. Did you know it was actually originally designed as an in situ cleaning process for printing presses? Auto-RX patent info

That is very interesting b_on_b. Probably happens more often than we realize. Not certain it's true but I have read some years ago that the glue on stick-it pads was a complete failure for what it was originally intended for- but look what became of it- how would we get along without stick-it. At least it was purported to be true and from a reputable source.

[pauljcl]

Hi,

Following is my Issue.

2000 / Rx300 /124000 Miles/Bay Area /CA

Recently noticed that there is a leak from the engine and at the same time had a check engine flashing.

Dealer suggested to change the Ignition Coil.

Replaced for $ 500.00 .

Dealer suggested "A Possible Rear Main Seal" could cause the leak of the engine Oil .

To replace it costs around $2000.00.

Need your help if this is reasonable or just run it by topping the oil when ever required.

At times it smels the burning oil.

Any suggetions or Low cost mechanic close to Bay Area is greatly appreciated.

I had the same problem. To check whether it is the rear engine seal, you wipe around the seal, let it 'sit' for a short while and see whether a 'drop' forms or whether the seal is again humid and a wipe yields a very oily rag. If you wipe well at atrt, it is quite evident where the oil comes from when it re-appears. Of course, you can try anything to 'revitalize' the seal, but my experience (based on stories heard) is that, even if seems to succeed, it is only delaying tactic and the problem re-appears within a short whole. [i would try it anyway: low cost, no downside]. The cost to change the rear engine seal, which I bore on my own after Lexus 'respectfully declined to assist', at the Toyota dealer in Traverse City (no Lexus dealer in TC) was $1,600. My RX300 was AWD. I was told that a FWD is less expensive, i.e. around $1,200. -- If you have proof of all services done at Lexus in a timely fashion, you should speak to Lexus Customer Service: they are more likely to 'make a deal' with a Lexus dealer and you could face lower costs. They cannot 'make deals' with Toyota dealers, and they opted - in my case - to not reimburse anything.

I agree Paul that it is a long shot and not a long term solution, even if it worked. Just thought that a couple of treatments for $50. or so as compared to $2000. for replacement was an easy decision, especially since it would be good for the engine. I would certainly hope that Dhannu would be able to get it done for less than $2000. in an independent shop. We have some excellent independent shops in our area, both Lexus and other foreign brands. They are almost always started and staffed with ex-dealer mechanics and at a lot less than Lexus dealer prices.

I'm absolutely with you in the sense that $50 is better than $X,XXX! [To misquote Bauhaus: More $ is less pleasure]. -- As an aside, I would have thought that the rear engine seal would fail based on mileage, not time. My RX had 65K miles when it failed, but was a 1999.

[code58]

I'm absolutely with you in the sense that $50 is better than $X,XXX! [To misquote Bauhaus: More $ is less pleasure]. -- As an aside, I would have thought that the rear engine seal would fail based on mileage, not time. My RX had 65K miles when it failed, but was a 1999.

Paul- As you know this has been a problem for quite a few years. Having done the rear seal myself and seeing firsthand that the seal did not seem to be designed differently, I have to assume if there was a change it was in the material. It has been said that the original supplier used inferior material but I am betting that they were built to specs and that T/L didn't discover in testing, that because of the added weight of the RX and added strain of AWD that it would cause the crankcase to run as hot as it does. It literally cooks them hard as a rock. That is the reason it wears a groove in the crankshaft. As hard as they become, they have no chance at that point of stopping the oil. It's not wear that does it, it's being baked with extreme heat. I don't personally thing there was ever anything wrong with the design and yes, I have read of them failing as low as 70k mi., yours at 65k is quite low, but then I think when a lot of people have them replaced, they have been leaking for some time. I finally got time to change my DIL's at 97k and she had first mentioned it at about 85k. That same basic engine has been used in Toyota sedans for some time before the RX even came out. Do you hear of the same problem in the Toyota SEDANS, say Camry? My brother had a 95 Toyota PU with the 3.0L and never had any problem with rear main seal leakage. I don't think they're under the same strain, therefore don't generate the heat in the crankcase.

[blk_on_blk]

But weren't similar (or identical) engines and both the U140F and U140E transmissions also used in the '01-'03 Toyota Highlanders? A fully loaded one of those is 3880 pounds curb weight... the comparable RX300 is 3715 pounds (FWD) and 3924 pounds (AWD). I wonder how those have been fairing with the transmissions & rear main seals, seeing as they are quite comparable in weight, as well as design overall. I would think they would be seeing similar strain/load/heat/wear.

[lenore]

did the Seinna have the AWD with viscous coupling? Also the highlander has a much later build date 01 versus 99 Lexus will not give us any details of hardware or software changes for the vehicles in comparison....

[pauljcl]

did the Seinna have the AWD with viscous coupling? Also the highlander has a much later build date 01 versus 99 Lexus will not give us any details of hardware or software changes for the vehicles in comparison....

Yes, probably the later build date means Lexus had already re-specc'd their seal material or noticed original seal material was defective. Have you heard of 2001 and later RXs with the rear engine seal problems?

[code58]

did the Seinna have the AWD with viscous coupling? Also the highlander has a much later build date 01 versus 99 Lexus will not give us any details of hardware or software changes for the vehicles in comparison....

Yes, probably the later build date means Lexus had already re-specc'd their seal material or noticed original seal material was defective. Have you heard of 2001 and later RXs with the rear engine seal problems?

Paul- the later ones haven't SEEMED to be showing up here with rear main seal leaks. Time will tell, but the '99 and '00 have been for a # of years so that would seem that the change may have been done along in that time period ('01-up).

[RX in NC]

When the rear main seal on my wife's previous 2000 RX300 AWD failed at 70-something thousand miles back in the late 2004 timeframe, our Lexus dealership covered the replacement in full. I was able to see and hold the new, better-made seal and compare it to the old, leaking seal that supposedly came out of her vehicle and there's no question that the new seal was thicker and probably a bit heavier than the old seal. Yes, the old seal had been "baked", no question about that, but the new seal was definitely thicker and hopefully made of more pliable compounds. I could certainly see and feel the difference, and if you did this job yourself yet couldn't tell the difference between your old and new seals, then I have to question whether you really were sold the "new and improved" seal rather than just another old one that had been sitting on the shelf in inventory for a number of years....

[Karl K]

Gentlemen,

I agree with all the posts above but like to add a much over looked item. The PCV valve.

Yes the little PCV valve. A clogged PCV valve lets pressure build up in the crank case forcing the oil out where ever it finds a way. In all my years of professionally repairing and tuning engines I have stopped or at least reduced many oil leaks by replacing the PCV valve and making sure that all the associated passages and hoses are unrestricted and not leaking vacuum.

So, along with Auto-RX, take care of the engines breathing system.

Good luck,

Karl

[RX in NC]

There's an interesting conversation about PCV valves going on right now at one of the Jaguar forums I frequent. Some cars today don't even have PCV valves - their federally-mandated Positive Crankcase Ventilation and Exhaust Gas Recirculation are handled without the use of a PCV valve.

I remember when PCV valve replacement was part of every major tune-up back in the 1970s and 80s. Today, you never even see the PCV valve listed as a replacement item in manufacturers' service schedules. I probably haven't replaced one in 20 years or more. With today's much-improved gasoline additives and computer-controlled fuel injection, I don't think PCV valves clog up nearly as much as they did back in the 70s....

[pauljcl]

When the rear main seal on my wife's previous 2000 RX300 AWD failed at 70-something thousand miles back in the late 2004 timeframe, our Lexus dealership covered the replacement in full. I was able to see and hold the new, better-made seal and compare it to the old, leaking seal that supposedly came out of her vehicle and there's no question that the new seal was thicker and probably a bit heavier than the old seal. Yes, the old seal had been "baked", no question about that, but the new seal was definitely thicker and hopefully made of more pliable compounds. I could certainly see and feel the difference, and if you did this job yourself yet couldn't tell the difference between your old and new seals, then I have to question whether you really were sold the "new and improved" seal rather than just another old one that had been sitting on the shelf in inventory for a number of years....

It's good to know that, as early as 2004, the seals were improved. Of course: I didn't do the job myself, Toyota did, and I saw neither the new seal nor the old one. I assume that, by now the 'new' seal is the only one available... and it is also good to believe that the rear engine seal problem will not recur.

[code58]

When the rear main seal on my wife's previous 2000 RX300 AWD failed at 70-something thousand miles back in the late 2004 timeframe, our Lexus dealership covered the replacement in full. I was able to see and hold the new, better-made seal and compare it to the old, leaking seal that supposedly came out of her vehicle and there's no question that the new seal was thicker and probably a bit heavier than the old seal. Yes, the old seal had been "baked", no question about that, but the new seal was definitely thicker and hopefully made of more pliable compounds. I could certainly see and feel the difference, and if you did this job yourself yet couldn't tell the difference between your old and new seals, then I have to question whether you really were sold the "new and improved" seal rather than just another old one that had been sitting on the shelf in inventory for a number of years....

RX- I freely admit that I was under a lot of stress when I did that rear main seal I was doing a lot of other major maintenance and repair work and was under a time constraint and the clock was ticking. I can only say that I am a very detail oriented person and I didn't notice any major change in the seal, new to old. I doubt very seriously that the source that I purchased the seal from would have any possibility of having the seal on the shelf for as long as 5 years. (was done in May of '06 and was original equip., not aftermarket). The package looked brand new stock (no dust, yellowing, etc.) LOL I do have pictures of the mounting plate/with seal, but I doubt I could tell enough to tell the difference. The way the mount for the seal is made, there isn't room enough for major changes. I believe what you say you saw, I wish now I had them back to compare.

[Domenico Nelli]

I have a buddy who is a Lexus Tech and he told me that tha rear main seals are good for about 60K! I said WTF? Luxury car and the rear main seals go that soon... He brought it into his shop and had asked his service writer to do a goodwill warranty on it. I believe it took him about 9 hours and they were paid by the factory. I had to pay for the seal which I believe cost only like $20. Oh well, I guess you can say that I am lucky. Not looking forward for it to go in another 60K.

[pauljcl]

I have a buddy who is a Lexus Tech and he told me that tha rear main seals are good for about 60K! I said WTF? Luxury car and the rear main seals go that soon... He brought it into his shop and had asked his service writer to do a goodwill warranty on it. I believe it took him about 9 hours and they were paid by the factory. I had to pay for the seal which I believe cost only like $20. Oh well, I guess you can say that I am lucky. Not looking forward for it to go in another 60K.

Yes, you ARE lucky. I had the rear engine seal of my 99RX300 'go' at 66K miles, and Lexus told me to take a hike. They contributed nothing, even though I had my car serviced at Lexus prior. Just goes to show..... Shortly after that, a friend in Europe with a MB clk, now over ten years old, had a 'noise' which, upon checking, revealed to be a loose chain tensioner (The MB's have chains instead of timing belts... usually safer, last forever). MB took it upon themselves - iwthout need for a request - to advise the client (my friend) that chain tensioners arfe designed for a life well in excess of the age of his car, and they replaced it for free.... There is a difference in sense of honor, I guess, as well as in price.