SW03ES Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 You shouldnt put a lot of stock in reports of unintended acceleration. If you look, there are claims against just about every car out there. The NHTSA conducts investigations and has never turned up a case where it was actually unintended acceleration and not driver error. They've investigated the ES before, not the 350 but my generation ES. It all started with a big news story about unintended acceleration in an Audi back in the early 90s, it was found to be driver error but ever since then people tend to be sensitive about it and are quick to blame small fender benders on the car "accelerating on its own". I do agree though that the '07 ES seems to have a lot of issues compared to Lexus vehicles... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tango19 Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 Somehow it tells me that Lexus determined that it was far cheaper to blame the all-weather mats and replace them (and put the customer's life on the line) than replacing the transmission on every car. Please point to any proof that any Lexus transmission ever caused any "sudden acceleration" that ever put any customer's life on the line. Then please show how this happens with the transmission "on every car," therefore facilitating the clever floor mat cover-up. This type of action by an automobile manufacturer would be a stupid and possibly catastrophic liability if proven by even one customer. I can understand frustrations that can come from feeling that an isolated dealer has not taken care of problems properly. But don't you think it's a huge leap to accuse Lexus and their dealers of felony criminal actions (potential willful manslaughter) over what you consider poor customer care? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nharish Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 Somehow it tells me that Lexus determined that it was far cheaper to blame the all-weather mats and replace them (and put the customer's life on the line) than replacing the transmission on every car. Please point to any proof that any Lexus transmission ever caused any "sudden acceleration" that ever put any customer's life on the line. Then please show how this happens with the transmission "on every car," therefore facilitating the clever floor mat cover-up. This type of action by an automobile manufacturer would be a stupid and possibly catastrophic liability if proven by even one customer. I can understand frustrations that can come from feeling that an isolated dealer has not taken care of problems properly. But it's a huge leap to accuse Lexus and their dealers of felony criminal actions (willful manslaughter) on a public forum over what you consider poor customer care. Very good question. I like objective questions. You also bring some extremely valid points about liability. My suggestion to you is to take a look at all customer complaints for the 07 ES350 on the NHTSA website (and one of the 08s as well). Customer's have complained. Some have said that they had the new all-weather mats that were appropriately installed, some did not have them on in the first place. A police report has been filed by one regarding the same. The only thing I do not have is the driver record of the parties concerned and unfortunately have no way of getting those :). While I consider myself to be fortunate enough that something like that has not happened, my point was to throw a note of caution. Has this issue been "proven", NO! Read what the dealerships had to say about the problem as well when you are at it. My own problems with the steering has been determined as "Works as designed" as well where each person representing Lexus was reporting an independent contradicting story. I mentioned it myself, I feel cheated by Lexus (not just the dealerships) for how they dealt with my case (you can read the details in my other thread) but thats what prompted me to checkout all the reported complaints. Is there an emotional angle to what I have to say, yes. Am I being objective at the same time, I think so! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW03ES Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 Tango, He'll loose interest before too long... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jainla Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 I do agree though that the '07 ES seems to have a lot of issues compared to Lexus vehicles... Most of the issues with the ES350 seem to be the same ones that '07 Camry owners have reported (transmission issues mostly). This is not that surprising considering the common platform. I agree that the ES350 in look and feel seems slightly less fabulous than the car it replaced. Toyota later admitted they cut about 1,000 engineers from their quality control teams and will now have to add them back; we are also seeing this in the unusual amount of TSBs and other issues reported by owners of the '07 LS460. Toyota seems to be correcting the problems though; the second year of both models seem much better. I think it's kind of premature to judge an entire brand by an experience of just one car. Cars are mechanical and everyone (even Lexus) makes a lemon every once in a while. I've heard many stories of people who are very happy with their recent Mercedes or VW and people who say they are a maintenance nightmare. Sometimes it's also just luck of the draw. Toyota seems to finally have hit the tipping point in that they are making too many cars and can't control the quality as thoroughly as they have in the past. I think that's why they are building more plants in the US (so their current ones don't have to run at 105%+ capacity) and hopefully their situation will improve. Every carmaker seems to have a season. In the 70's and the 80's Mercedes made the best cars in the world. In the late 80's and the 90's Toyota seems to have taken the mantle (with Honda nipping at its heals). Now the Germans seem to have bounded back from the quality abyss so who knows who's next? Maybe (dare I say it) Hyundai? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
es3502007 Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 I do agree though that the '07 ES seems to have a lot of issues compared to Lexus vehicles... Most of the issues with the ES350 seem to be the same ones that '07 Camry owners have reported (transmission issues mostly). This is not that surprising considering the common platform. I agree that the ES350 in look and feel seems slightly less fabulous than the car it replaced. Toyota later admitted they cut about 1,000 engineers from their quality control teams and will now have to add them back; we are also seeing this in the unusual amount of TSBs and other issues reported by owners of the '07 LS460. Toyota seems to be correcting the problems though; the second year of both models seem much better. I think it's kind of premature to judge an entire brand by an experience of just one car. Cars are mechanical and everyone (even Lexus) makes a lemon every once in a while. I've heard many stories of people who are very happy with their recent Mercedes or VW and people who say they are a maintenance nightmare. Sometimes it's also just luck of the draw. Toyota seems to finally have hit the tipping point in that they are making too many cars and can't control the quality as thoroughly as they have in the past. I think that's why they are building more plants in the US (so their current ones don't have to run at 105%+ capacity) and hopefully their situation will improve. Every carmaker seems to have a season. In the 70's and the 80's Mercedes made the best cars in the world. In the late 80's and the 90's Toyota seems to have taken the mantle (with Honda nipping at its heals). Now the Germans seem to have bounded back from the quality abyss so who knows who's next? Maybe (dare I say it) Hyundai? LOL....Dont knock that last comment "Hyundai". i recently had to rent a car out of town and first car was a chry 300. then i had a Hyundia on my next leg of my trip and i preferred the Hyundia. It had a V6 mind you and had some power and a nice ride and just felt safe in it. The 300 i felt like a dog in his cage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nharish Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 Tango, He'll loose interest before too long... Steve, I wish you can keep your comments non-personal. All my comments were ONLY targeted at Lexus as a corporation. I could easily post the private comments I got from 3 unique individuals about you with regards to your inaccurate statements in my other thread (One standing example being how dealers are just being courteous about alignment and that Lexus does not warrant alignment/wheel balancing even after typing from the book verbatim!!!!!). But I guess I will not stoop to that level. I can prove each issue I had with my car (excepting the trans flare and the GPS not re-calculating the route which happen a lot less sporadically). The fact that an attorney is willing to take up my case says much about my issues. My statements were based purely on my experience and others in general with regards to their 2007 ES350's in the NHTSA website. Knowing you, and how lowly you think of everyone that has a different opinion than you do, I am not surprised how you comment!!! Sorry, I did not want to get personal but you forced me to. I stand up for what is right and present facts the way they are. If you have a problem with it, I suggest you just keep your thoughts to yourself! Well, knowing how you will react to this..., rest assured, I will not respond to your rant/inaccurate statements :) With regards to Hyundai (sorry for jumping topics here), my observation (again based on data) has been that its the most improved brand in the last ten years (ways to go before theycan strongly compete against Honda/Nissan and hopefully Toyota!). Harish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW03ES Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 LOL....Dont knock that last comment "Hyundai". i recently had to rent a car out of town and first car was a chry 300. then i had a Hyundia on my next leg of my trip and i preferred the Hyundia. It had a V6 mind you and had some power and a nice ride and just felt safe in it. The 300 i felt like a dog in his cage. Absolutely, Hyundai has been making some great cars, the Japanese need to watch them Ive s.aid it many times. I'm also always completely dissapointed in the 300. Its such a great looking car, but the interior and switchgear is so outdated and awful, and it seems so archaicly heavy and slow... To mr Harish, I am not the one that is making this personal. I have been on internet car forums for a long time my friend, I simply made an observation that pou would loose interest and you will. You have to understand, this is a Lexus enthusiast site. You're here not to get help with your issues but to use our club as a forum to complain and air your greivances. Its tiring, and once you realize you're going to meet more opposition here than support you'll get tired of it and leave. If you wanted help and to be fair, you would have been more accepting of the suggestions you were given that didn't include "file a lawsuit". You don't want help, you want blood. And having a lawyer on your side? I work with lawyers every day. Lawyers defend rapists and murderers too. Lawyers look out for themselves, you wouldn't find a lawyer that wouldn't take your case. Now don't get all bent out of shape and say I'm comparing you to a rapist or murderer, I am not. I am simply saying, having a lawyer on your side is hardly a feather in your cap. If you're as good a student of my posts as you claim to be you know I never pass on an opportunity to voice my viewpoint in discussion. If you don't want to hear from me I suggest you find another forum to post on. I suggest www.clublexus.com, I don't post there. If you ask for opinions here or post viewpoints, you have to put up with people who disagree with you. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW03ES Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 Tango, He'll loose interest before too long... What a surprise, I was right ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Meeks Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 SWOE3S forgive me if I speak out of turn,I am fairly new to this forum. But, on the other hand I am a avid car follower. I have been on many many car sites and I have to say this one has more people than normal that voice their personal beliefs and opinions dissing the cars that the whole forum was built to revere...lol..I just find it funny.. Its like going to a golf lesson with Tiger woods, to diss golf, and want to tell him how good Kobe is at basketball. Like I said I might be out of turn. My personal opinion is even if there is a problem with a car..you tell me a car company that doesnt have one and I will give you a car company with no return costomers and no sales. I have owned many many cars from Merc. to Vipers, from Vettes, to Chevettes....(use to have a car lot...lol...) as far as feel, ride dependibility and performance I will take a Lexus over a Lincoln any day of the week. Then again cars are machines..failure is immanent and no car is immpervious... as far as attorney or having one, I keep two.. and they will defend me right or wrong ...like a marriage.. till death of my bank account due us part...lol. I enjoy getting on here and reading peoples opinions and thoughts..as far as bashing a whole company for a problem that cant be proved they was at fault. Especially considering, I wont say all but most of us have one of these cars and you dont see alarge number of these threads,I would say is a little far.. everyone that does that should expect to be met with impedance.. If I am out of line...Sue me..it is AMERICA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Meeks Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 OOPS customers...sorry dont count off for spelling...I wouldnt be able to pass to the next thread..lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW03ES Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 SWOE3S forgive me if I speak out of turn,I am fairly new to this forum. But, on the other hand I am a avid car follower. I have been on many many car sites and I have to say this one has more people than normal that voice their personal beliefs and opinions dissing the cars that the whole forum was built to revere...lol..I just find it funny.. Its like going to a golf lesson with Tiger woods, to diss golf, and want to tell him how good Kobe is at basketball. Like I said I might be out of turn. My personal opinion is even if there is a problem with a car..you tell me a car company that doesnt have one and I will give you a car company with no return costomers and no sales. I have owned many many cars from Merc. to Vipers, from Vettes, to Chevettes....(use to have a car lot...lol...) as far as feel, ride dependibility and performance I will take a Lexus over a Lincoln any day of the week. Then again cars are machines..failure is immanent and no car is immpervious... as far as attorney or having one, I keep two.. and they will defend me right or wrong ...like a marriage.. till death of my bank account due us part...lol. I enjoy getting on here and reading peoples opinions and thoughts..as far as bashing a whole company for a problem that cant be proved they was at fault. Especially considering, I wont say all but most of us have one of these cars and you dont see alarge number of these threads,I would say is a little far.. everyone that does that should expect to be met with impedance.. If I am out of line...Sue me..it is AMERICA I agree 100% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.