Weird Problem - Hear Something Running Before Car Actually Starts?

[midnightz]

Hello All - newbie here so be gentle please. :)

We have a 2002 RX-300 with 91k miles. We have noticed that when inserting the key to start the car we hear a small motor running (not the engine) and can feel vibrations as it spins. This only happens when the key is turned to the 2nd click which is the click right before it actually starts the car which is the 3rd click. Hoping I am making sense.

In going thru the motions of starting the RX - I insert the key in the ignition, then turn to the 1st click which powers radio and ACC, then turned to the 2nd click which lights up the dash and instruments - now in this key position we hear and feel a small motor running/spinning under the hood - even before the engine is started. Then the 3rd click actually starts the car.

The weird part is that it does not happen all the time.

However when it happens it can be duplicated because when it does happen it keeps happening several times before it stops.

I will just turn the key to the 2nd click and feel something running under the hood then turn key back to shut off.

Then turn key again to start and it's still there. I will do this several times until finally I'll drive off.

Then after when I start it again - it's gone.

I turn the key to the 2nd click and now nothing - no noise or anything until key is turned to the 3rd click which actually starts the car.

What do you think is going wrong?

Did not want to post redundant issues but I've searched the Forums and could not find similar problem/s or maybe I just do not know how to call this problem to search.

Do I have a part that is dying or about to die?

Starter? Solenoid?

This Forum is a great resource to all - Thank You in advance!

[Grumpa72]

I am going to guess that this is your fuel pump, which operates at a much higher pressure than in days of old, pressurizing the fuel rail. The fuel rail is fairly close to the firewall and I know I have heard it on other cars. When I was working on a fuel problem on my Acura, I found out that the fuel pump would pressurize the lines and run for about 2-3 seconds. If the key wasn't turned to "start" then the pump shut down until needed or the key was recycled off and then back to run.

Gary

[wwest]

Hello All - newbie here so be gentle please. :)

We have a 2002 RX-300 with 91k miles. We have noticed that when inserting the key to start the car we hear a small motor running (not the engine) and can feel vibrations as it spins. This only happens when the key is turned to the 2nd click which is the click right before it actually starts the car which is the 3rd click. Hoping I am making sense.

In going thru the motions of starting the RX - I insert the key in the ignition, then turn to the 1st click which powers radio and ACC, then turned to the 2nd click which lights up the dash and instruments - now in this key position we hear and feel a small motor running/spinning under the hood - even before the engine is started. Then the 3rd click actually starts the car.

The weird part is that it does not happen all the time.

However when it happens it can be duplicated because when it does happen it keeps happening several times before it stops.

I will just turn the key to the 2nd click and feel something running under the hood then turn key back to shut off.

Then turn key again to start and it's still there. I will do this several times until finally I'll drive off.

Then after when I start it again - it's gone.

I turn the key to the 2nd click and now nothing - no noise or anything until key is turned to the 3rd click which actually starts the car.

What do you think is going wrong?

Did not want to post redundant issues but I've searched the Forums and could not find similar problem/s or maybe I just do not know how to call this problem to search.

Do I have a part that is dying or about to die?

Starter? Solenoid?

This Forum is a great resource to all - Thank You in advance!

My best guess would be that you have a failed or failing, intermittently failing, check valve or solenoid valve somewherein the ABS pumpmotor system. It is my understanding that each and every time you first, initially, switch the key into the engine run position the pumpmotor goes into a self-check mode. Once the brake fluid is pumped up to a specified pressure the pumpmotor stops, usually with 2-3 seconds. If you switch the key off and then back on fairly soon the motor should not restart unless the initial fluid pressure has/is bled off.

[midnightz]

I am going to guess that this is your fuel pump, which operates at a much higher pressure than in days of old, pressurizing the fuel rail. The fuel rail is fairly close to the firewall and I know I have heard it on other cars. When I was working on a fuel problem on my Acura, I found out that the fuel pump would pressurize the lines and run for about 2-3 seconds. If the key wasn't turned to "start" then the pump shut down until needed or the key was recycled off and then back to run.

Gary

Hello Grumpa72/Gary - Thank you for the reply Sir.

Will the pump cause the car to vibrate? Or is it more of a "surging" feeling when pressurizing the pump?

However the feeling is like as if a small motor is running or spinning and not surging.

It vibrates and will not stop even when left on the 2nd click for a long time. I tried to leave it for about 5 minutes and it continues to spin. I had to shut off for fear of discharging battery.

However at times it will not do it at all. I would turn key on 2nd click and no vibration - nothing - no noise whatsoever - but at times it will vibrate. I do not know how to make it not do it.

Thank you for the reply Sir - I am lost.

[midnightz]

Hello All - newbie here so be gentle please. :)

We have a 2002 RX-300 with 91k miles. We have noticed that when inserting the key to start the car we hear a small motor running (not the engine) and can feel vibrations as it spins. This only happens when the key is turned to the 2nd click which is the click right before it actually starts the car which is the 3rd click. Hoping I am making sense.

In going thru the motions of starting the RX - I insert the key in the ignition, then turn to the 1st click which powers radio and ACC, then turned to the 2nd click which lights up the dash and instruments - now in this key position we hear and feel a small motor running/spinning under the hood - even before the engine is started. Then the 3rd click actually starts the car.

The weird part is that it does not happen all the time.

However when it happens it can be duplicated because when it does happen it keeps happening several times before it stops.

I will just turn the key to the 2nd click and feel something running under the hood then turn key back to shut off.

Then turn key again to start and it's still there. I will do this several times until finally I'll drive off.

Then after when I start it again - it's gone.

I turn the key to the 2nd click and now nothing - no noise or anything until key is turned to the 3rd click which actually starts the car.

What do you think is going wrong?

Did not want to post redundant issues but I've searched the Forums and could not find similar problem/s or maybe I just do not know how to call this problem to search.

Do I have a part that is dying or about to die?

Starter? Solenoid?

This Forum is a great resource to all - Thank You in advance!

My best guess would be that you have a failed or failing, intermittently failing, check valve or solenoid valve somewherein the ABS pumpmotor system. It is my understanding that each and every time you first, initially, switch the key into the engine run position the pumpmotor goes into a self-check mode. Once the brake fluid is pumped up to a specified pressure the pumpmotor stops, usually with 2-3 seconds. If you switch the key off and then back on fairly soon the motor should not restart unless the initial fluid pressure has/is bled off.

Hello Wwest - Thank you for replying - nice Porsche!

HOwever the vibration does not stop. I left it for 5 minutes and it continues to spin.

I switch the key off then back on again in about 2 seconds and it will spin/vibrate again and continue to do so until I start the car or just pull the key out.

I really wish it was normal and just some pump motor priming but pumps will not cause the car to vibrate right? - or would it?

Thank you for your help Sir.

[Grumpa72]

Hello Grumpa72/Gary - Thank you for the reply Sir.

Will the pump cause the car to vibrate? Or is it more of a "surging" feeling when pressurizing the pump?

However the feeling is like as if a small motor is running or spinning and not surging.

It vibrates and will not stop even when left on the 2nd click for a long time. I tried to leave it for about 5 minutes and it continues to spin. I had to shut off for fear of discharging battery.

However at times it will not do it at all. I would turn key on 2nd click and no vibration - nothing - no noise whatsoever - but at times it will vibrate. I do not know how to make it not do it.

Thank you for the reply Sir - I am lost.

I doubt that a fuel pump pressurizing the fuel system would cause anything to vibrate. The fuel pumps I have seen are very small and I just can't imagine that they have the power necessary to do anything like you suggested. Based on your additional information, I think my initial guess must have been wrong. The fuel pumps that I have seen typically run for 2-5 seconds to pressurize the system and will stop until the engine is actually started.

Gary

[Karl K]

Sounds like it could be a radiator cooling fan. That could give you a vibration.

[wwest]

I am going to guess that this is your fuel pump, which operates at a much higher pressure than in days of old, pressurizing the fuel rail. The fuel rail is fairly close to the firewall and I know I have heard it on other cars. When I was working on a fuel problem on my Acura, I found out that the fuel pump would pressurize the lines and run for about 2-3 seconds. If the key wasn't turned to "start" then the pump shut down until needed or the key was recycled off and then back to run.

Gary

Hello Grumpa72/Gary - Thank you for the reply Sir.

Will the pump cause the car to vibrate? Or is it more of a "surging" feeling when pressurizing the pump?

However the feeling is like as if a small motor is running or spinning and not surging.

It vibrates and will not stop even when left on the 2nd click for a long time. I tried to leave it for about 5 minutes and it continues to spin. I had to shut off for fear of discharging battery.

However at times it will not do it at all. I would turn key on 2nd click and no vibration - nothing - no noise whatsoever - but at times it will vibrate. I do not know how to make it not do it.

Thank you for the reply Sir - I am lost.

Years ago when my LS400 did "this" I fixed it by having the dealer drain/refill/bleed the brake system.

You can test to see if it is the ABS pumpmotor by pulling the fuse.

[midnightz]

I am going to guess that this is your fuel pump, which operates at a much higher pressure than in days of old, pressurizing the fuel rail. The fuel rail is fairly close to the firewall and I know I have heard it on other cars. When I was working on a fuel problem on my Acura, I found out that the fuel pump would pressurize the lines and run for about 2-3 seconds. If the key wasn't turned to "start" then the pump shut down until needed or the key was recycled off and then back to run.

Gary

Hello Grumpa72/Gary - Thank you for the reply Sir.

Will the pump cause the car to vibrate? Or is it more of a "surging" feeling when pressurizing the pump?

However the feeling is like as if a small motor is running or spinning and not surging.

It vibrates and will not stop even when left on the 2nd click for a long time. I tried to leave it for about 5 minutes and it continues to spin. I had to shut off for fear of discharging battery.

However at times it will not do it at all. I would turn key on 2nd click and no vibration - nothing - no noise whatsoever - but at times it will vibrate. I do not know how to make it not do it.

Thank you for the reply Sir - I am lost.

Years ago when my LS400 did "this" I fixed it by having the dealer drain/refill/bleed the brake system.

You can test to see if it is the ABS pumpmotor by pulling the fuse.

Wwest - Thanks for pointing me to a direction that I never looked into - I will do it tomorrow ASAP.

Thanks again for the suggestion!!

I will keep you posted.

[midnightz]

Sounds like it could be a radiator cooling fan. That could give you a vibration.

Karl K - I will look into this tomorrow. Thanks.

[midnightz]

Hello Grumpa72/Gary - Thank you for the reply Sir.

Will the pump cause the car to vibrate? Or is it more of a "surging" feeling when pressurizing the pump?

However the feeling is like as if a small motor is running or spinning and not surging.

It vibrates and will not stop even when left on the 2nd click for a long time. I tried to leave it for about 5 minutes and it continues to spin. I had to shut off for fear of discharging battery.

However at times it will not do it at all. I would turn key on 2nd click and no vibration - nothing - no noise whatsoever - but at times it will vibrate. I do not know how to make it not do it.

Thank you for the reply Sir - I am lost.

I doubt that a fuel pump pressurizing the fuel system would cause anything to vibrate. The fuel pumps I have seen are very small and I just can't imagine that they have the power necessary to do anything like you suggested. Based on your additional information, I think my initial guess must have been wrong. The fuel pumps that I have seen typically run for 2-5 seconds to pressurize the system and will stop until the engine is actually started.

Gary

Gary - thanks for letting me "bounce" my thoughts off you. I appreciate the suggestions.

However - do you happen to know how I can test if my Starter or Solenoid is/is not working?

IS there an easy way to verify - Thank you Sir.

[Grumpa72]

Gary - thanks for letting me "bounce" my thoughts off you. I appreciate the suggestions.

However - do you happen to know how I can test if my Starter or Solenoid is/is not working?

IS there an easy way to verify - Thank you Sir.

Starters and solenoids? No info sorry. What I know about electrics can be written on the head of a pin! :D With auto electrics, I do the same thing you are doing - I go on a forum, get advice and then try to isolate the problem prior to doing my own remove and replace.

Gary

ps, good luck and keep us posted.

[midnightz]

Bump!

Sorry for the bump :( but I needed to know how I can test if the Starter and/or Solenoid is working on my 2002 RX-300?

Does anybody here know how to test if the part/s are dying?

Any Symptoms?

Experiences??

Thanks in advance.

[smooth1]

Yes, I do, but it's alot of work for most people. You'll need to start with connecting a volt/ampere tester to the battery terminals. Makes sure all lights and accessories are Off and transmission in Park.

Turn and hold ignition switch in Start position. then Read your tester.

If the voltage reads 12.4 volts or greater and amperage reads 0-10 amps, then you'll need to do a starter control test.

Connect positive voltmeter lead to starter motor housing and negative lead to battery negative terminal. Now turn and hold the ignition switch in Start position. If voltage reads above .2 volt, correct poor starter to engine ground.

Connect positive voltmeter lead to positive battery terminal and negative lead to battery cable terminal on starter solenoid. Rotate and hold ignition switch in Start position. If voltage reads above .2 volt, correct poor contact at battery cable to solenoid connection. If reading is still above .2 volt, replace positive battery cable.

If resistance tests detect no feed circuit failures, replace starter motor.

Starter Solenoid Test

Connect heavy jumper wire on starter relay between battery and solenoid terminals. If engine cranks, perform starter relay test.

If engine does not crank or solenoid chatters, check wiring and connectors from relay to starter for loose or corroded connections.

Repeat test and, if engine still does not crank properly, repair or replace starter as necessary.

Starter Relay Test

Place transmission in Park.

Apply parking brake.

Check for battery voltage between starter relay battery terminal and ground.

Connect jumper wire on starter relay between battery and ignition terminals.

If engine does not crank, connect a second jumper wire to starter relay between ground terminal and good ground and repeat test.

If engine cranks in step 3, transmission linkage is misadjusted or neutral safety switch is defective.

If engine does not crank in step 3, starter relay is defective.

[midnightz]

Yes, I do, but it's alot of work for most people. You'll need to start with connecting a volt/ampere tester to the battery terminals. Makes sure all lights and accessories are Off and transmission in Park.

Turn and hold ignition switch in Start position. then Read your tester.

If the voltage reads 12.4 volts or greater and amperage reads 0-10 amps, then you'll need to do a starter control test.

Connect positive voltmeter lead to starter motor housing and negative lead to battery negative terminal. Now turn and hold the ignition switch in Start position. If voltage reads above .2 volt, correct poor starter to engine ground.

Connect positive voltmeter lead to positive battery terminal and negative lead to battery cable terminal on starter solenoid. Rotate and hold ignition switch in Start position. If voltage reads above .2 volt, correct poor contact at battery cable to solenoid connection. If reading is still above .2 volt, replace positive battery cable.

If resistance tests detect no feed circuit failures, replace starter motor.

Starter Solenoid Test

Connect heavy jumper wire on starter relay between battery and solenoid terminals. If engine cranks, perform starter relay test.

If engine does not crank or solenoid chatters, check wiring and connectors from relay to starter for loose or corroded connections.

Repeat test and, if engine still does not crank properly, repair or replace starter as necessary.

Starter Relay Test

Place transmission in Park.

Apply parking brake.

Check for battery voltage between starter relay battery terminal and ground.

Connect jumper wire on starter relay between battery and ignition terminals.

If engine does not crank, connect a second jumper wire to starter relay between ground terminal and good ground and repeat test.

If engine cranks in step 3, transmission linkage is misadjusted or neutral safety switch is defective.

If engine does not crank in step 3, starter relay is defective.

Wow - Smooth1 - that was what I was looking for - Thank You Sir!

I didn't realize that I had to perform numerous steps but it's all understandable.

Now if I can just make sure that my Kaiser Health Insurance Card is nearby in case something happens to me when performing these tests..... :)

[RX300-01]

Hi All,

Just ran across this thread, and like to add some info and hope someone might solve this mystery (at least I thought is was normal as stated below).

My is a 2000 RX300 AWD (brand new of the lot) and have the similar issue since day one.

The issue: As soon as I insert the key into the ignition switch (without turn key), the buzzing sound somewhere in the engine compartment begin. Once I pull out the key, the sound stop immediately. this sound happens every single time the key is insert.

Lexus response: Normal (in Short), also try on 2 other car on the lot and found out they have same problem "normal"

Observation: Once the buzzing sound begin after key is insert, it seem to never stop since I have waited well over 2 minutes (maybe wait longer next time). However, when I turn the key to the position (before the start) and turn it back to the position (where key just insert), the sound is no longer exist. At this point I let the key sit there for 15 minutes and still buzzing sound.

Test: As soon as I remove the key then insert the key again, the buzzing sound happens again, I then went to the cycle of -remove then insert- for 15 times in a roll, the buzzing sound happens every single time, but when I turn the key up then turn it back to the insert position (mentioned in Observation), the sound immediately stop. Now start engine and drive around the block then turn key to all the way to off position then wait for 5 minutes, did not notice any sound at all.

Now what: Until this very day, I still have the same issue and still cannot determine what is the cause of where exactly the sound come from under the hood. Regards to Lexus, in short, take a look and then still come back with the word normal without explaining what is it…

Solution: None. However, I am still currently searching for all of the wiring diagrams that cover from the moment the key is insert into the ignition switch and hope that I can find out something by tracing what happen when the key is insert. But for now, I have to stuck with it.

[Alphadog]

Hi All,

Just ran across this thread, and like to add some info and hope someone might solve this mystery (at least I thought is was normal as stated below).

My is a 2000 RX300 AWD (brand new of the lot) and have the similar issue since day one.

The issue: As soon as I insert the key into the ignition switch (without turn key), the buzzing sound somewhere in the engine compartment begin. Once I pull out the key, the sound stop immediately. this sound happens every single time the key is insert.

Lexus response: Normal (in Short), also try on 2 other car on the lot and found out they have same problem "normal"

Observation: Once the buzzing sound begin after key is insert, it seem to never stop since I have waited well over 2 minutes (maybe wait longer next time). However, when I turn the key to the position (before the start) and turn it back to the position (where key just insert), the sound is no longer exist. At this point I let the key sit there for 15 minutes and still buzzing sound.

Test: As soon as I remove the key then insert the key again, the buzzing sound happens again, I then went to the cycle of -remove then insert- for 15 times in a roll, the buzzing sound happens every single time, but when I turn the key up then turn it back to the insert position (mentioned in Observation), the sound immediately stop. Now start engine and drive around the block then turn key to all the way to off position then wait for 5 minutes, did not notice any sound at all.

Now what: Until this very day, I still have the same issue and still cannot determine what is the cause of where exactly the sound come from under the hood. Regards to Lexus, in short, take a look and then still come back with the word normal without explaining what is it…

Solution: None. However, I am still currently searching for all of the wiring diagrams that cover from the moment the key is insert into the ignition switch and hope that I can find out something by tracing what happen when the key is insert. But for now, I have to stuck with it.

I don't know exactly what it is, but I would look in the relay compartment under the hood. I am making a guess, here but many electromechanical gizmos are driven by relays and relays can buzz when energized. Some manufacturers even leave some switches energized when the car is off - take the recent Ford explorer fires - they leave the Cruise Control switch/relay powered all the time; even when the car is off and parked. Lexus may have a relay that links to the high amp starter interconnect that is energized as soon as the key is inserted.

Just my 2 cents here.

[blk_on_blk]

It might be the same thing I hear in my RX, which is a solenoid/acuator of some sort in the transmission. Although, I'd never heard it before a couple weeks ago... it was always quiet, but then I put in the key and got a buzzing from the engine compartment. Take out the key and it's gone. After tracking down the sound, I found it's coming from inside the transmission pan. I've checked for the sound again at other times... sometimes it's just a 'click' as I insert the key, other times a faint buzz, other times a nasty buzz. My transmission just got replaced, so it's going back to the shop to have them take a look at it. I can't believe this is 'normal' operation (although everything runs and drives fine with the transmission). I would say the 'click' is normal operation, but not the buzzing.