Hybrid Payback News

[RX400h]

Fuel prices, competition among hybrids reduce buyers' payback period.

In the front page of its Money section, USA Today (5/12, 1B, Carty) reports, "Rising fuel prices and competition among a proliferation of gasoline-electric hybrids have sliced the payback period for hybrids to two or three years in some cases, instead of five years or more that made hybrids harder to justify at lower fuel prices." Moreover, "increasing interest in hybrids is driving their prices up and eroding their fuel cost-saving benefits." According to an analysis by auto-price consultant Edmunds.com, "the difference between a Toyota Camry hybrid and a similarly equipped gasoline Camry was $889 Friday, up from $850 a week ago. Assuming 15,000 miles a year, Edmunds figures just 1.7 years for the Camry hybrid's fuel savings to offset the car's higher price -- slightly longer than 1.6 years when the price difference was less a week earlier." USA Today notes, "Besides Camry hybrid and Toyota Prius, there are hybrid versions of Honda Civic, Nissan Altima and Chevrolet Malibu, among others, and an array of SUVs. If gasoline goes up just a few cents, payback time falls dramatically."

[ilovelexus2007]

How about RX400h? How long does it takes to payback with this new gas prices?

Yahoo and Cars.com ranked the 400h at #5 for hybrid that worths your money (payback at 8-9 years at $3.00 a gallon). Obviously the excluded the benefit of CTV and V8 equivalent power on the 400h that the RX350 doesn't have.

http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/autos_cont...10-2008-hybrids

Btw, I look at a consumer report magazine yesterday, it said the 400h requires "regular" gasoline, and the RX350 can use either "Regular or Premium", the rest of the Lexus line-up requires "Premium". Is that true? If so, it is another good reason why 400h is justifiable.

[RX400h]

The difference between $3.00 and $4.00 per gallon is huge! Payback, even if you disregard other advantages of the RX400h, is much sooner (and is shrinking rapidly as fuel prices climb).

For many who did not have the foresight to chose the 400h over the 350, read em and weep!

[Jim Clark]

The difference between $3.00 and $4.00 per gallon is huge! Payback, even if you disregard other advantages of the RX400h, is much sooner (and is shrinking rapidly as fuel prices climb).

For many who did not have the foresight to chose the 400h over the 350, read em and weep!

Re-read this thread: http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index...showtopic=47259

Even if gas prices reach $5.20 per gallon, the payback is still 5 years or 60,000 miles.

[Randy&Bonnie]

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[RX400h]

The "Driving conditions" factor cannot be overstated. Being that the majority of us live in fairly large cities (or close to them), payback comes at a much faster rate than calculated by the various "experts". For example, the MPG advantage attained if heavy traffic is encountered every workday can mean a difference of 80-100% between a non-hybrid and hybrid. City mileage for non-hybrid SUVs is often atrotious, to say the least.

Even at 4-5 years payback, most owners of hybrids will enjoy the benefits many years beyond that, as the average length of vehicle ownership in the US is approaching 10 years. (Canada's is just a bit over 8 years).

Based upon the durability and reliability of our RX400h, there really is no reason to buy a new vehicle anytime soon.

As far as stocks are concerned, this is not a good time to day-trade unless you really know what you're doing.

Regarding resale value: Hybrid SUVs are holding their value far better than their non-hybrid counterparts.

[Gryphon]

I ran about 25 miles of local errands last night, first resetting my meter, and got over 31 miles/gallon. It's darn hard to find a non-hybrid that will equal that short of an econobox.

Tom

[Randy&Bonnie]

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[s10]

On the going green thing and pollution and all, Canada & China puts more CO2 in the atmosphere in one day then the entire USA put in the air in a year!

Really?

Anyway, Of course keeping your old 12mpg truck is more ecological than exchanging it for a new 25 mpg one.. the footprint of a newly produced car is huge compared to an existing one... in that sense nature will never get the payback...

If you want to consume less and have an instant payback, then you should buy a smaller car, even better if it is a used one.

But buying a Hybrid is an investment in the future.. into a new technology and also giving a sign (not bragging) that you care, to others and more importantly...to the industry.

And although you might not get your money back so quickly, you do continue to have your driving pleasures while consuming less, making a smaller impact.. isn't that worth the extra money?

And in regard to the airco.. just change that seer pump when it's broken and needs to be changed.

Good luck with your microsoft stock!

[Gryphon]

Recently I've considered buying a hybrid. Two of our friends own Prius's, one owns a new Highlander, and they brag about them all the time. I agree that a real compelling reason is for the HOV lane, but in Phoenix, I notice that the HOV lane is plugged up much of the time during rush hour traffic.

Randy, be aware that nether the Hylander hybrid nor the RX400h qualify for the HOV lanes in Arizona, thanks to Govenor Janet and crew.

Tom

[Randy&Bonnie]

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[chopperpl]

Why don't you all start looking at environmental benefits instead of money saving factor. Your kids will benefit from choosing the hybrid... Now prove you really care about their (kids) future!

:chairshot:

[Gryphon]

Here you go, Randy:

http://phoenix.about.com/od/highwaysroads/a/HOV.htm

Tom

[riwyle]

Randy, be aware that nether the Hylander hybrid nor the RX400h qualify for the HOV lanes in Arizona, thanks to Govenor Janet and crew.

Tom

Hi Tom,

Holee Crapolee!! I didn't know that!! Well, I guess Janet isn't going to get any votes out me!!

So, where does one find the list of what driver only hybrids CAN drive in the HOV lanes?

Not in California, unless you are driving one of the smaller hybrids and have a special sticker (which are no longer available)

[Randy&Bonnie]

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[Gryphon]

Randy, the good news is that the HOV lanes have specific hours of operation (restriction) that most people never notice nor use (such as at night.)

Tom

[mindmachine]

The "Driving conditions" factor cannot be overstated. Being that the majority of us live in fairly large cities (or close to them), payback comes at a much faster rate than calculated by the various "experts". For example, the MPG advantage attained if heavy traffic is encountered every workday can mean a difference of 80-100% between a non-hybrid and hybrid. City mileage for non-hybrid SUVs is often atrotious, to say the least.

Even at 4-5 years payback, most owners of hybrids will enjoy the benefits many years beyond that, as the average length of vehicle ownership in the US is approaching 10 years. (Canada's is just a bit over 8 years).

Based upon the durability and reliability of our RX400h, there really is no reason to buy a new vehicle anytime soon.

As far as stocks are concerned, this is not a good time to day-trade unless you really know what you're doing.

Regarding resale value: Hybrid SUVs are holding their value far better than their non-hybrid counterparts.

I dont know what all of you are thinking about but have any of you considered the greater resale value of the hybrid 400h?

I trade cars a lot more frequently as I want the latest way to often for my own good,,lol anyway resale on other SUV's is dropping like a rock, along with pick up trucks ect. I know you pay more for your hybrid, but as gas prices increase so does your resale value on a hybrid.

I looked at a 2 year old Prius last year, Carmax wanted within $2000 of the price of a new one and it had 21000 miles on it. So I bought new, and i bought a new 400h just this March. Also I am getting over 28.5 MPG average so far and at times on the highway I have gotten 32.6 MPG, it is all in how you drive, but owners of the newer ones seem to be reporting higher MPG's. Oh and by the way the manual on the 2008 400h says premium required!

dennis

[FLdriver]

How about RX400h? How long does it takes to payback with this new gas prices?

Yahoo and Cars.com ranked the 400h at #5 for hybrid that worths your money (payback at 8-9 years at $3.00 a gallon). Obviously the excluded the benefit of CTV and V8 equivalent power on the 400h that the RX350 doesn't have.

http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/autos_cont...10-2008-hybrids

Btw, I look at a consumer report magazine yesterday, it said the 400h requires "regular" gasoline, and the RX350 can use either "Regular or Premium", the rest of the Lexus line-up requires "Premium". Is that true? If so, it is another good reason why 400h is justifiable.

My last 3 cars are: Prius (old version), Prius (new), and Rx400h.

If you are concerned about BreakEven, then go Prius.

The factor that few people mentioned about breaking even is the annual mileage you drive, in which we are different. So to quote years of BreakEven without stating basic annual mileage assumption is DISHONEST, or perhaps "ignoramous".

I bought Prius' because at my 36,000miles/year I would BEven at 2 yrs at $1.86/gallon. As you can see, we are way past that now.

I bought Rx400h, not for solely because gas mileage, but because huge power PERFORMANCE on the road: almost immediate power response at the slight touch of the pedal. It seems I can pass cars at highway speed BEFORE they can react (goes to my head LOL).

[FLdriver]

The "Driving conditions" factor cannot be overstated. Being that the majority of us live in fairly large cities (or close to them), payback comes at a much faster rate than calculated by the various "experts". For example, the MPG advantage attained if heavy traffic is encountered every workday can mean a difference of 80-100% between a non-hybrid and hybrid. City mileage for non-hybrid SUVs is often atrotious, to say the least.

Even at 4-5 years payback, most owners of hybrids will enjoy the benefits many years beyond that, as the average length of vehicle ownership in the US is approaching 10 years. (Canada's is just a bit over 8 years).

Based upon the durability and reliability of our RX400h, there really is no reason to buy a new vehicle anytime soon.

As far as stocks are concerned, this is not a good time to day-trade unless you really know what you're doing.

Regarding resale value: Hybrid SUVs are holding their value far better than their non-hybrid counterparts.

I dont know what all of you are thinking about but have any of you considered the greater resale value of the hybrid 400h?

I trade cars a lot more frequently as I want the latest way to often for my own good,,lol anyway resale on other SUV's is dropping like a rock, along with pick up trucks ect. I know you pay more for your hybrid, but as gas prices increase so does your resale value on a hybrid.

I looked at a 2 year old Prius last year, Carmax wanted within $2000 of the price of a new one and it had 21000 miles on it. So I bought new, and i bought a new 400h just this March. Also I am getting over 28.5 MPG average so far and at times on the highway I have gotten 32.6 MPG, it is all in how you drive, but owners of the newer ones seem to be reporting higher MPG's. Oh and by the way the manual on the 2008 400h says premium required!

dennis

Don't you love the passing power of the 400h ?????

FYI: my 400h is 71k miles now. Doing about 28-29mpg mixed, but I stopped paying attention to that, and more to the shear fun of driving on the road.

As stated in my previous post, it's just naive to quote a 4-5 yr BEven when there's more to the assumptions. The best way to quote a breakeven is "MILES driven to BEven" which is a more normalized factor. But even at that, you must quote the gas price assumption.

Also regarding 400h, the RS/A wears out too quickly, so quickly that they don't even quote any mileage warranty on it. A 2 tire direct replacement would set back $600 or so. So I am trying the lesser known Sumitomo LSV rated at 70,000miles. It's deep threaded, V-rating (don't believe it), fairly quiet. A 2-tire replacement costed me $400. Handling is very good under FL hot sun/pavement. more to come later

[Randy&Bonnie]

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[Randy&Bonnie]

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[s10]

Why don't you all start looking at environmental benefits instead of money saving factor. Your kids will benefit from choosing the hybrid... Now prove you really care about their (kids) future!

:chairshot:

chopperpl,

That's a good question. Since you asked.... To start, I have no kids to worry about.

I have a problem with the "environmental" aspect of buying a hybrid. The main reason is the "environmental "GREEN" movement" is destroying America. Everything is "going green" thing has almost nothing to do with the facts regarding pollution or supposed detrimental global warming effect, and has practically everything to do with someone making money and more profits. It's more political and marketing hype. Can you, as a US citizen, tell China to stop building new coal burning plants at the rate of 1 per week!! By the year 2020, a mere 12 years, China will put more CO2 into the atmoshere from coal burning plants than the amount of CO2 produced by 3 BILLION Ford Expeditions, each driven 15,000 miles!! The Kyoto Protocol is a joke.

If I were to buy a hybrid vehicle, it would be primarily to save drive time in the HOV lanes, which here in Phoenix, might not be a whole lot. The "payback" time is too long for me. If I look at the actual money savings in fuel, I can predicably make more money (ROI) investing it into a stock, or guns, or some collectable automobile.

That's just my worthless opinion. :D

Indeed.

I'm sorry but I couldn't resist! ;)

Of course it is ALSO used by some as just a commercial and marketing trick, but please explain why polluting less is a bad thing for America?

First of all, China may still be behind now, but is making much bigger steps (than America) to control pollution; in 5 to 10 years from now most hybrids will be chinese. China is also investing huge amounts of money in alternative energies, the 3 Gorges dam is just a start. The chinese government have also introduced many stricter anti-pollution rules lately.

Remember we're talking about a country with over a billion people... America is peanuts in comparison.

As for the economy, because America is in so many ways behind the rest of the world in terms of investments in clean energy (and not just that), the demand for american products will only get smaller and smaller. Heck, even in America they have problems now selling their old fashioned, heavy, consuming cars. Nobody wants them.

And, just accept it as a fact, very soon China will be the worlds most powerful nation economically not because of "the green movement" but because they have the knowledge and the cheap labor... just as it was before when China was the worlds biggest economical power for over a 1000 years. Strangely enough you should be thankful for Communism, without it America wouldn't have had the chance to grow the way it did.

And than you said it.. "If I were to buy a hybrid vehicle, it would be primarily to save drive time in the HOV lanes"... that mentality is exactly why America is lagging behind. Thankfully more and more people, are realizing that it is time to change.

So, stick to your guns if you want, but you're pointing them at your own head.

[Randy&Bonnie]

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[jditom]

On the going green thing and pollution and all, Canada & China puts more CO2 in the atmosphere in one day then the entire USA put in the air in a year!

I would like to see the source for this quote!