Brakes/brake Pads

[mhawkin1]

After driving my ES for a couple of weeks I have a question about the brakes. They feel quite soft, which I have heard is normal and that Lexus uses soft brake pads. How long do the brake pads typically last (I realize this varies greatly depending on driving environment and driving style)? What are others experiences with the brakes and or pads? I predominately drive in the city, but not aggressively.

Thanks in advance –

(Also - at 310 miles, my check engine light/VSC light and a red exclamation mark came on... I have an appointment for this today.)

I've officially had more issues with my Lexus than I had with my Prius in over 20k miles. :) Not worried though...

[mhawkin1]

Update: The lights were on because the Air Fuel Sensor went bad. It will take over a week to get the part. They said since I live in Indiana - I can drive the car while I wait. Translation - Indiana doesn't have any air quality standards! :)

[Ira d]

After driving my ES for a couple of weeks I have a question about the brakes. They feel quite soft, which I have heard is normal and that Lexus uses soft brake pads. How long do the brake pads typically last (I realize this varies greatly depending on driving environment and driving style)? What are others experiences with the brakes and or pads? I predominately drive in the city, but not aggressively.

Thanks in advance –

(Also - at 310 miles, my check engine light/VSC light and a red exclamation mark came on... I have an appointment for this today.)

I've officially had more issues with my Lexus than I had with my Prius in over 20k miles. :) Not worried though...

I had to have the front pads replaced and the rotors turned at about 10k on my 07 ES and the rear

pads replaced at 20k. I have noticed that the front rotors are starting to warp again as you

vabration in the steering with slightly heavy breaking, I also noticed on a ES loaner car some

front vabration with breaking. Bottom line the Lexus brakes are not a quality item however

the first two break repairs were under warranty.

By the way my ES just hit 25K.

[mhawkin1]

The car started acting funny again today. I took it in, they gave me an 08 RX to drive and said it may take up to 11 days to fix the ES. Definitely off to a rough start with my first new Lexus.

They were very nice about the whole situation though.

[SW03ES]

Annoying I agree but they'll get it straightened out.

As for brakes, the reason the rotors warp is because once they're turned they get thinner and warp faster. I get probablt 20-25k on a set of front brakes and 40k on rears and I drive pretty aggressively.

If you have worn brakes and warped rotors at 10k you're driving too aggressively IMHO...

[Ira d]

Annoying I agree but they'll get it straightened out.

As for brakes, the reason the rotors warp is because once they're turned they get thinner and warp faster. I get probablt 20-25k on a set of front brakes and 40k on rears and I drive pretty aggressively.

If you have worn brakes and warped rotors at 10k you're driving too aggressively IMHO...

No Steve its not that we are driving too aggressive but its because the brakes are of low

quality and that is a fact. Common sense would tell me if the brake problem was because

of aggressive driving it would happen on all the other cars we drive but it does not.

[Lexusfreak]

I've never known Lexus OE brakes to be of poor quality personally......I've always been pleased with their performance.

[Ira d]

I've never known Lexus OE brakes to be of poor quality personally......I've always been pleased with their performance.

Well thats good to know and im fine with that but the car I have has low Quailty brakes pads

and rotors and thats just the way it is. I might add before this car I never knew a Toyota

product to have low quailty brakes either.

[Lisalew]

Do you guys receommend having the brakes replaced only at a Lexus dealership. Or can a qualified mechanic do just as good a job. I've been having some rattling noise coming from (I think) the brakes on my RX300. What do the replaced pads at the dealership cost?

L

[AZ08LexusES]

Here's what I don't get... Would Toyota put lesser quality brakes on a Lexus than on the Toyota, say ES vs Camry? No, the reverse maybe. Would tires perform poorer on a Lexus than on another vehicle? Probably not. And finally, for brakes to only last 10K, they have to be pretty bad, even worse than the cheapo after market ones (that squeal the minute you put them on) that you can buy at an autopart store. And this I find hard to believe.

So, there has to be another answer for some people's misfortunes with these components. Sure, overly aggressive driving is one reason, but what else can affect these in this manner? My car was just serviced, tire rotation, oil change and the like, 8K miles and no red flags about the brake or tire wear. I drive pretty aggressively through very curvy and hilly roads, but I don't think I am experiencing low quality parts.

Here's another question, does low quality mean that components do not last as long? Sometimes you sacrifice longevity for higher peroformance and quality. One example of this is in tires. You can get the nicest, stickiest tire in the market and they definitely will not last as long as the cheapest store brand tire.

[SW03ES]

No Steve its not that we are driving too aggressive but its because the brakes are of low

quality and that is a fact. Common sense would tell me if the brake problem was because

of aggressive driving it would happen on all the other cars we drive but it does not.

I have first hand experience Lexus vehicles for a decade with total mileage of 340,000 miles. I've replaced MANY brake pads on them in that time frame and I am telling you that the pads last well beyond 10k miles. THAT is a fact.

They are softer than other pads that are available in an effort to make them quiet and smooth, but 10k miles...gotta be something wrong.

So, either its aggressive driving or something specific to your car that they just haven't found.

Here's another question, does low quality mean that components do not last as long? Sometimes you sacrifice longevity for higher peroformance and quality. One example of this is in tires. You can get the nicest, stickiest tire in the market and they definitely will not last as long as the cheapest store brand tire.

This is a very good point. Generally long lasting brakes and tires are made of harder compounds, which transmit more noise and vibration into the cabin. So you're right, high quality doesn't always mean longer life. For instance I would never put a set of tires on a Lexus with more than a 400 treadwear rating because they wouldn't deliver the ride that I bought the Lexus for.

Now, 10k miles for brakes is way too short, but I'm happy replacing mine every 20k.

[Ira d]

No Steve its not that we are driving too aggressive but its because the brakes are of low

quality and that is a fact. Common sense would tell me if the brake problem was because

of aggressive driving it would happen on all the other cars we drive but it does not.

I have first hand experience Lexus vehicles for a decade with total mileage of 340,000 miles. I've replaced MANY brake pads on them in that time frame and I am telling you that the pads last well beyond 10k miles. THAT is a fact.

They are softer than other pads that are available in an effort to make them quiet and smooth, but 10k miles...gotta be something wrong.

So, either its aggressive driving or something specific to your car that they just haven't found.

Here's another question, does low quality mean that components do not last as long? Sometimes you sacrifice longevity for higher peroformance and quality. One example of this is in tires. You can get the nicest, stickiest tire in the market and they definitely will not last as long as the cheapest store brand tire.

This is a very good point. Generally long lasting brakes and tires are made of harder compounds, which transmit more noise and vibration into the cabin. So you're right, high quality doesn't always mean longer life. For instance I would never put a set of tires on a Lexus with more than a 400 treadwear rating because they wouldn't deliver the ride that I bought the Lexus for.

Now, 10k miles for brakes is way too short, but I'm happy replacing mine every 20k.

Steve

As to what happens with your car I wont dare to say im not driving your car, But as far mine

im driving it so I can say. Although my wife drive it way more than me I know the others

cars we have had over the last ten years have had better brakes and tires and that is a fact.

You made the statement brakes should last longer than 10k and I agree. I also know its not

just my car and that is a fact. I might add I know something about auto mechs and I do

know what can cause premature brake wear. Bottom line if rotors warp prematurely its

either poor cooling or poor quailty metal or both.

Im not going to discuss this farther with anyone that thinks they know more about how im

operating my car than me. As far as somthing I have not found that would be the job

of Lexus dont you think?

[mhawkin1]

Didn’t mean for a ‘brakes’ post to get so prickly. Just wanted some opinions – that’s probably a fact too. ;)

[HLUCKOFF]

Every day I see people accelerate hard from a stop sign only to brake hard at the next one, and then the cycle starts all over again. Then they complain they get lousy fuel economy, the tires wear out too fast, the brake pads don't last on and on it goes, heaven forbid that they should look at the way they drive, it's always someone else's fault never their own. No I don't know the way you drive but I see how a lot of people drive and maybe if we took it a little easier things would last longer. I have 3,000 miles on my rear tire on my Suzuki Bandit and the wear bars are showing, darn Dunlop they sure make cheap tires, it couldn't possibly be my own fault.

[Ira d]

Didn’t mean for a ‘brakes’ post to get so prickly. Just wanted some opinions – that’s probably a fact too. ;)

The only reason these posts get prickley is because a few certain posters like to attack people

that tell the truth about Lexus with sarcastic remarks and try to imply that people are causing

there car problems. In other words Lexus makes perefect car and if anyone has a problem

its their own fault or they are to stupid to know what is behind the problem.

[AZ08LexusES]

Didn’t mean for a ‘brakes’ post to get so prickly. Just wanted some opinions – that’s probably a fact too. ;)

Some posters state their opinion and then say it's a fact, and that's a fact!

We are all stating opinions, no one is attacking anyone. But sometimes I wish there would be an attack or two, some people just get prickly when other people don't agree with their opinions. Here are some opinions, I don't think that Lexuses suck. I don't think they use crappy materials. And I don't think that they are of poor quality. For the record, these are just my opinions, not facts. If someone can disprove my opinions with empirical fact, then I will be forced to change my opinion. But anecdotal evidence does not a fact make!

[SW03ES]

As to what happens with your car I wont dare to say im not driving your car, But as far mine

im driving it so I can say. Although my wife drive it way more than me I know the others

cars we have had over the last ten years have had better brakes and tires and that is a fact.

You made the statement brakes should last longer than 10k and I agree. I also know its not

just my car and that is a fact. I might add I know something about auto mechs and I do

know what can cause premature brake wear. Bottom line if rotors warp prematurely its

either poor cooling or poor quailty metal or both.

Im not going to discuss this farther with anyone that thinks they know more about how im

operating my car than me. As far as somthing I have not found that would be the job

of Lexus dont you think?

Why are you getting so defensive?

You're right, I don't drive your car. However, do you think its fair to say in 350,000 miles of experience with Lexus cars I might have some insight into the quality of their wear items and how long they typically last? I'd say thats a fair assessment.

It is not normal that your brakes would go in 10k miles, and the pads and rotors you've got are the same ones I've had for a decade, and my brakes have lasted far longer than 10k miles and they're driven aggresively.

Didnt Lexus replace your brakes under warranty? If it happens again...something is wrong with your unit somewhere...whether its mechanical or user driven.

The only reason these posts get prickley is because a few certain posters like to attack people

that tell the truth about Lexus with sarcastic remarks and try to imply that people are causing

there car problems. In other words Lexus makes perefect car and if anyone has a problem

its their own fault or they are to stupid to know what is behind the problem.

Actually I disagree. The reason these posts get prickley is because a few certain posters refuse to even admit theres a possibility that the issues they're having are user driven. You're as guilty of what you're admonishing me for as I am...just on the other side.

Look at my posts, no secret I'm a big fan of Lexus vehicles but I've been very critical of the ES350.

I do however know these vehicles really well, almost certainly better than you do (and thats not an insult, I've been driving them for 10 years) and I know that the quality of brakes across the board is not the issue with your vehicle because I've had probably dozens of sets of OEM Lexus brakes installed on my vehicles.

As far as tires...Lexus uses crappy OEM tires.

[Ira d]

As to what happens with your car I wont dare to say im not driving your car, But as far mine

im driving it so I can say. Although my wife drive it way more than me I know the others

cars we have had over the last ten years have had better brakes and tires and that is a fact.

You made the statement brakes should last longer than 10k and I agree. I also know its not

just my car and that is a fact. I might add I know something about auto mechs and I do

know what can cause premature brake wear. Bottom line if rotors warp prematurely its

either poor cooling or poor quailty metal or both.

Im not going to discuss this farther with anyone that thinks they know more about how im

operating my car than me. As far as somthing I have not found that would be the job

of Lexus dont you think?

Why are you getting so defensive?

You're right, I don't drive your car. However, do you think its fair to say in 350,000 miles of experience with Lexus cars I might have some insight into the quality of their wear items and how long they typically last? I'd say thats a fair assessment.

It is not normal that your brakes would go in 10k miles, and the pads and rotors you've got are the same ones I've had for a decade, and my brakes have lasted far longer than 10k miles and they're driven aggresively.

Didnt Lexus replace your brakes under warranty? If it happens again...something is wrong with your unit somewhere...whether its mechanical or user driven.

The only reason these posts get prickley is because a few certain posters like to attack people

that tell the truth about Lexus with sarcastic remarks and try to imply that people are causing

there car problems. In other words Lexus makes perefect car and if anyone has a problem

its their own fault or they are to stupid to know what is behind the problem.

Actually I disagree. The reason these posts get prickley is because a few certain posters refuse to even admit theres a possibility that the issues they're having are user driven. You're as guilty of what you're admonishing me for as I am...just on the other side.

Look at my posts, no secret I'm a big fan of Lexus vehicles but I've been very critical of the ES350.

I do however know these vehicles really well, almost certainly better than you do (and thats not an insult, I've been driving them for 10 years) and I know that the quality of brakes across the board is not the issue with your vehicle because I've had probably dozens of sets of OEM Lexus brakes installed on my vehicles.

As far as tires...Lexus uses crappy OEM tires.

Steve

Im going to say this then im done with this subject unless some wants to here what I have to

say. First of I doubt you have put 350,000 on the 07 ES350 I assume you are talking about

all the Lexus car you have had sum total milage. Second how do you know the brakes on

my car are the same as yours the fact is you dont.

Also the facts are than when Toyata did the redesign on the 07 Camary and the ES 350 and

also the Avalon all kind of problems begain to appear that the previous years didnt have

that or due in part to the fact that the new cars are not useing the all the same parts as

the previous ones. Also the ES 350 is not my first Toyota product but it has had more

problems than all my previous Toyota cars of which I have owned 2 new and one used.

[SW03ES]

I agree with you that there have been steps backwards in terms of quality with the ES350, thats part of why I've been so critical of it. However, when you talk about things like brake pads you're into the area of wear items that are stock across the model line. It would cost more to engineer different brake pads for the 350 than to just use whats already been designed.

I'd venture a quess that the pads are indeed the same or very similar.

As far as tires...Lexus doesn't make tires. They choose lousy OEM tires but most car manufacturers do.

[Lexusfreak]

So you're right, high quality doesn't always mean longer life. For instance I would never put a set of tires on a Lexus with more than a 400 treadwear rating because they wouldn't deliver the ride that I bought the Lexus for.

The new Michelin Primacy MXV4's have a 620 treadwear Steve lol....just thought I would mention that. ;)

[AZ08LexusES]

Also the facts are than when Toyata did the redesign on the 07 Camary and the ES 350 and

also the Avalon all kind of problems begain to appear that the previous years didnt have

that or due in part to the fact that the new cars are not useing the all the same parts as

the previous ones. Also the ES 350 is not my first Toyota product but it has had more

problems than all my previous Toyota cars of which I have owned 2 new and one used.

I used to work for GM in Detroit, they always say, never buy a car in the first year of the re-design. It is almost impossible to get all the kinks out of the manufacturing process. Throughout the year enough discoveries are made to improve everything, but the retooling doesn't happen until the model year change over. I almost bought the 07, got lucky and came out with the first 08 sold by the local dealer (what a story there!). I hope all the bad kinks got worked out...

[Lexusfreak]

I used to work for GM in Detroit, they always say, never by a car in the first year of the re-design. It is almost impossible to get all the kinks out of the manufacturing process.

I too am a firm believer in that as well. :)

[BaddBoi70]

As to what happens with your car I wont dare to say im not driving your car, But as far mine

im driving it so I can say. Although my wife drive it way more than me I know the others

cars we have had over the last ten years have had better brakes and tires and that is a fact.

You made the statement brakes should last longer than 10k and I agree. I also know its not

just my car and that is a fact. I might add I know something about auto mechs and I do

know what can cause premature brake wear. Bottom line if rotors warp prematurely its

either poor cooling or poor quailty metal or both.

Im not going to discuss this farther with anyone that thinks they know more about how im

operating my car than me. As far as somthing I have not found that would be the job

of Lexus dont you think?

Why are you getting so defensive?

You're right, I don't drive your car. However, do you think its fair to say in 350,000 miles of experience with Lexus cars I might have some insight into the quality of their wear items and how long they typically last? I'd say thats a fair assessment.

It is not normal that your brakes would go in 10k miles, and the pads and rotors you've got are the same ones I've had for a decade, and my brakes have lasted far longer than 10k miles and they're driven aggresively.

Didnt Lexus replace your brakes under warranty? If it happens again...something is wrong with your unit somewhere...whether its mechanical or user driven.

The only reason these posts get prickley is because a few certain posters like to attack people

that tell the truth about Lexus with sarcastic remarks and try to imply that people are causing

there car problems. In other words Lexus makes perefect car and if anyone has a problem

its their own fault or they are to stupid to know what is behind the problem.

Actually I disagree. The reason these posts get prickley is because a few certain posters refuse to even admit theres a possibility that the issues they're having are user driven. You're as guilty of what you're admonishing me for as I am...just on the other side.

Look at my posts, no secret I'm a big fan of Lexus vehicles but I've been very critical of the ES350.

I do however know these vehicles really well, almost certainly better than you do (and thats not an insult, I've been driving them for 10 years) and I know that the quality of brakes across the board is not the issue with your vehicle because I've had probably dozens of sets of OEM Lexus brakes installed on my vehicles.

As far as tires...Lexus uses crappy OEM tires.

Steve

Im going to say this then im done with this subject unless some wants to here what I have to

say. First of I doubt you have put 350,000 on the 07 ES350 I assume you are talking about

all the Lexus car you have had sum total milage. Second how do you know the brakes on

my car are the same as yours the fact is you dont.

Also the facts are than when Toyata did the redesign on the 07 Camary and the ES 350 and

also the Avalon all kind of problems begain to appear that the previous years didnt have

that or due in part to the fact that the new cars are not useing the all the same parts as

the previous ones. Also the ES 350 is not my first Toyota product but it has had more

problems than all my previous Toyota cars of which I have owned 2 new and one used.

Ira D -

I agree with you, Lexus has completely missed their mark on the 07 ES 350 and the quality of the vehicle is NOT what someone purchasing a Lexus has come to expect! I am personally very disappointed with my 1st Lexus purchase! I have owned previous Toyota products and did not experience these quality issues. I have also owned many Honda products and have never experienced these issues (CD player stopped working, front and rear parking assist stopped working, bad OEM tires, transmission issues, etc.). Luckily, I have not experienced any brake issues, yet!

People's past experience with Lexus products, albeit helpful, can not be directly related to a knew product redesign. I agree with you, unless they actually own the car and are the primary driver of the vehicle it is difficult at best to be an expert on the vehicle. There are a LOT of issues, unfortunately, with the 07 ES 350 :( I want to keep the faith that Lexus will continue to do the right thing and resolve the issues with this vehicle and have learned an invaluable lesson on their redesign for future vehicles!

Best of luck to you with you 07 ES 350.

[Ira d]

As to what happens with your car I wont dare to say im not driving your car, But as far mine

im driving it so I can say. Although my wife drive it way more than me I know the others

cars we have had over the last ten years have had better brakes and tires and that is a fact.

You made the statement brakes should last longer than 10k and I agree. I also know its not

just my car and that is a fact. I might add I know something about auto mechs and I do

know what can cause premature brake wear. Bottom line if rotors warp prematurely its

either poor cooling or poor quailty metal or both.

Im not going to discuss this farther with anyone that thinks they know more about how im

operating my car than me. As far as somthing I have not found that would be the job

of Lexus dont you think?

Why are you getting so defensive?

You're right, I don't drive your car. However, do you think its fair to say in 350,000 miles of experience with Lexus cars I might have some insight into the quality of their wear items and how long they typically last? I'd say thats a fair assessment.

It is not normal that your brakes would go in 10k miles, and the pads and rotors you've got are the same ones I've had for a decade, and my brakes have lasted far longer than 10k miles and they're driven aggresively.

Didnt Lexus replace your brakes under warranty? If it happens again...something is wrong with your unit somewhere...whether its mechanical or user driven.

The only reason these posts get prickley is because a few certain posters like to attack people

that tell the truth about Lexus with sarcastic remarks and try to imply that people are causing

there car problems. In other words Lexus makes perefect car and if anyone has a problem

its their own fault or they are to stupid to know what is behind the problem.

Actually I disagree. The reason these posts get prickley is because a few certain posters refuse to even admit theres a possibility that the issues they're having are user driven. You're as guilty of what you're admonishing me for as I am...just on the other side.

Look at my posts, no secret I'm a big fan of Lexus vehicles but I've been very critical of the ES350.

I do however know these vehicles really well, almost certainly better than you do (and thats not an insult, I've been driving them for 10 years) and I know that the quality of brakes across the board is not the issue with your vehicle because I've had probably dozens of sets of OEM Lexus brakes installed on my vehicles.

As far as tires...Lexus uses crappy OEM tires.

Steve

Im going to say this then im done with this subject unless some wants to here what I have to

say. First of I doubt you have put 350,000 on the 07 ES350 I assume you are talking about

all the Lexus car you have had sum total milage. Second how do you know the brakes on

my car are the same as yours the fact is you dont.

Also the facts are than when Toyata did the redesign on the 07 Camary and the ES 350 and

also the Avalon all kind of problems begain to appear that the previous years didnt have

that or due in part to the fact that the new cars are not useing the all the same parts as

the previous ones. Also the ES 350 is not my first Toyota product but it has had more

problems than all my previous Toyota cars of which I have owned 2 new and one used.

Ira D -

I agree with you, Lexus has completely missed their mark on the 07 ES 350 and the quality of the vehicle is NOT what someone purchasing a Lexus has come to expect! I am personally very disappointed with my 1st Lexus purchase! I have owned previous Toyota products and did not experience these quality issues. I have also owned many Honda products and have never experienced these issues (CD player stopped working, front and rear parking assist stopped working, bad OEM tires, transmission issues, etc.). Luckily, I have not experienced any brake issues, yet!

People's past experience with Lexus products, albeit helpful, can not be directly related to a knew product redesign. I agree with you, unless they actually own the car and are the primary driver of the vehicle it is difficult at best to be an expert on the vehicle. There are a LOT of issues, unfortunately, with the 07 ES 350 :( I want to keep the faith that Lexus will continue to do the right thing and resolve the issues with this vehicle and have learned an invaluable lesson on their redesign for future vehicles!

Best of luck to you with you 07 ES 350.

You are 100% right and I hope Lexus will get their act togather. I for one have not had all

the problems that some others have had but I wont criticize them or try to spin what they

say or imply they are causing the problem just because I have not had the problem.

[AZ08LexusES]

I have owned previous Toyota products and did not experience these quality issues. I have also owned many Honda products and have never experienced these issues (CD player stopped working, front and rear parking assist stopped working, bad OEM tires, transmission issues, etc.).

So, are you implying that the Toyota will be of better quality than the Lexus? Do you think that they actually downgraded the radio/cd player from the previous model to this model? And it is worse than what they put in a Toyota? Can you confirm that? And the OEM tires, are they a Toyota product (what does OEM mean)? Yes, there have been transmission issues and yes, it could be attributed to the new model year.

People's past experience with Lexus products, albeit helpful, can not be directly related to a knew product redesign.

Two things can be attributed to the product redesign with your vehicle, the parking assist is one. I don't think that was available in the ES330 (can anyone confirm that?). And the transmission problems, the engine was upgraded from the 3.3 to a 3.5, and along with that came a new 6 speed transmission.

And Ira's brake wear issue may be attributed to the same thing, but this is something that can be corrected with replacement.

I worked at GM, I have talked to engineers that worked on plant floors and to employees at all levels. I know GM is not Toyota, but it is a very real phenomenon that when a new line comes out, issues abound. But, not all cars display the issues. At some point things get corrected, but the best time to buy a new line is after the first year. Toyota is not imune to this, it is impossible to completely test a vehicle the same way general consumers would use them.