Cloth Seats

[CanadaCraig]

Hi Everyone!! :)

My '93 is in the 'shop' as we speak. I'll let you know how it turns out. I'm using a 2000 LS as a courtesy car. Gee.. I hope MY LS doesn't feel like crap when I get IT back!! lol [i won't - I'm sure]

As to the subject - I've never EVER seen an LS with cloth seats. [either in person OR in a photo] Does anyone have a photo of an LS with cloth? I know [from reading one of your messages 1990LS400] that YOUR LS [the one you just sold] had cloth. Do YOU have any interior photo's of your car?

OR anyone else - of course.

Craig!! :)

[VMF]

the japanese verion of Ls400 - toyota celcior comes with cloth seats and a lot of equipment is optional. i saw them in russia. they have the steering wheel on the right side

[1990LS400]

Here (if I do this right) is the first of several low resolution photos of the cloth interior (including the original retractable rear window shade) of the 1990 LS400 I recently sold plus a picture of it and the 2000 LS400 which replaced it. The new owner of the 90 LS is apparently also a reader of this forum.

I'm already missing the cloth interior although I have to admit the seat heaters make the leather on the 2000 LS easier to deal with than I thought it would be. Too bad the rear seats don't have heaters - I noticed in the owners manual that there is a fuse for the rear seat heaters but apparently they were not available in the U.S. or Canada until on the recent LS430. I wonder why - they couldn't have cost much more.

[1990LS400]

Cloth Interior - 2nd photo.

[1990LS400]

Cloth Interior and rear sunshade photo.

[1990LS400]

One last photo of the 1990 LS400 with the cloth interior and the 2000 LS400 Platinum Series that replace it.

Oh, and I just ordered some parts from Metro Toyota/Lexus in Victoria, B.C. -- They were very helpful! (I've even been to Victoria a few times doing the tourist thing before going up the west coast to Bamfield and Long Beach.)

[CanadaCraig]

Hi VMF!! :)

So you saw one in Russia - did you?!

I see.

Anything else you'd like to tell us!! lol [j/k]

Craig!! :D

[CanadaCraig]

Hi 1990LS400!! :)

Those photo's were wonderful. Thank you very much for taking the time to let me see [finally] an LS with cloth!! I think the cloth looks nice. And I bet with the cloth - the LS was probably even quieter!! [than one with leather]

Speaking of your 1990 LS and your year 2000 LS - how different are they? Is the 2000 model quieter and/or does it handle better, etc.? Is the stereo more impressive? [anything else you can think of] I know it's MUCH faster - I'm driving a 1999 LS while my '93 is in the 'shop'.

As for ordering parts from Metro Lexus/Toyota in Victoria [where my car is right now!!] should I assume you live somewhere in Washington State?? And why did you? Are parts cheaper in Canada?

Thanks again. I even 'saved' your photo's so I can look at them later.

Craig!! :)

[VMF]

yeah, there are a lot of japanese cars straight from japan with the "incorrect" steering wheel side. :) there are soarers, altezzas, celciors and aristos over there and some of them dont even have the power windows:). i also saw a 1990 ls with cloth interior in allentown PA

[SW03ES]

Why would cloth seats make the car quieter??? I've seen a couple LS' with cloth seats. I'm not a cloth fan, I think leather feels and looks much more luxurious.

As for comparing the two, the 98-00 model is quieter, faster and smoother (which you would expect with it being newer). The gen III has a significantly stiffer structure, thicker window glass, more sound deadening etc.

[CanadaCraig]

Hi SW03ES!! :)

You asked, "Why would cloth seats make the car quieter???"

Whenever someone builts [as I have done] a sound-proof music room - they use cloth covered furniture [chairs, sofa's, etc.] whenever they can because cloth absorbs sounds better. Leather tends to reflect sound.

You said, "As for comparing the two, the 98-00 model is quieter, faster and smoother (which you would expect with it being newer). The gen III has a significantly stiffer structure, thicker window glass, more sound deadening etc.

Faster it is - with 290 h.p. But smoother and quieter? On paper - sure - but in reality? That's why I asked the question. Who better to know than someone who has owned both a 1990 and year 2000 LS?!

Craig!! :)

[1990LS400]

Hey Canada Craig and others,

Regarding the questions, comments ...

Whether or not one likes cloth or leather is a personal preference. Where I live in Kansas it can get very hot (100+ F.) in the summer and cold (-10 F.) in the winter, cloth just seems more comfortable - no burns in the summer when wearing shorts and less of the "sitting on a sheet of plywood until the seats warm up" on cold winter days. And you don't slide around on cloth when you decide to blast around a highway entrance ramp. I doubt that the cloth made the car quieter but I really don't know. My opinion on cloth is in the minority and if I want Lexus, or virtually any other nice car these days, I am going to have to learn to live with leather.

I was quite stunned at the difference between the 1990 and 2000 LS. Originally, I wanted a 2000 LS mainly for the HID lights (OK, I have not yet warmed up to the look of the LS430) and I really liked the idea that almost no one would notice that I was driving a different car. I even put the same Toyota license plate frame on the 00 LS that I had on the 90 LS for all those years. I placed the two owner's manuals side by side -- surprisingly the wheelbases and lengths were identical. While the 90 LS always seemed a little cramped inside, the 2000 seems huge inside. When I did some measuring I found that the heighth of the side windows on the 2000 were at least an inch taller and the rear door opening at least two inches wider. The interior seems a bit wider and the dash has been recontoured to seem less massive. The 90 LS seems far more nimble than the 2000 LS and has much better steering "feel". The 00 LS steering is Cadillac-like in its lightness.

Yes, the 2000 LS seems quite a bit quieter. The first thing I noticed was that the steering wheel silently tints and telescopes on the 00 LS while the one on the 90 LS has, since new, made quite a mechanical buzz as it moved. And the 2000 has tires of a more appropriate width than the 1990 - really helps braking - and does less of a nose dive during a quick stop. The 00 LS seems a LOT quicker. But I retired the radar detector in '95 so the increased power doesn't matter much to me. And with the 00 LS, I have to be concerned about damage if the timing belt breaks -- not a worry with the pre-VVTi 1990 engine. And of course the MOST important improvement (kidding, really) -- the 00 LS has rear beverage holders! Everything about the LS has been changed yet everything seems familiar - probably as Toyota/Lexus intended.

My opinion is that that the target markets of the 90 LS and 00 LS were quite different. In 1990, the LS was aimed mainly at midsize Mercedes and BMW customers, or at least this was the opinion of the 1989 Automobile magazine article that encouraged me to take Lexus seriously and then to buy the car shortly thereafter. How many remember all the Jay Leno jokes about Lexus in 1989? But by the last half of the 90's, Lexus was aiming the LS squarely at the Mercedes S class and BMW 7 series and still are today with the LS430.

Why am I buying parts for the 2000 LS from a Victoria BC dealer? I was mainly looking for parts (e.g. mudflaps) that have been deleted from the U.S. catalog. I occasionaly drive on rural gravel roads (but nothing as severe as BC logging roads where I once destroyed a wheel on a rental Ford Escort) and mudfaps do a great job of keeping the damage down and far less tar and other residue (e.g. paint spills on the road) has to be cleaned off. On the downside, I remember reading that mudflaps on the series I LS add about one decibel of noise at highway speeds - which is actually quite a lot - but the Lexus ones are probably quieter and look a lot better than others I've seen.

My apologies for the novel-length reply. I've always been a "car nut".

Regards!

[SW03ES]

No problem, always glad to chat with another car nut!

What you're seeing is the evolutionary design track Lexus takes with its vehicles. The LS430 is the same way (my dad just got an 04, which has been mercifully redesigned and its much more attractive now) everything is totally different but you KNOW its an LS, from the design of the gauges and the layout of all the controls. It has a familiarity that you can't quite put your finger on.

If you want to improve the steering feel of the 00 you might want to look into a strut tower bar, they're cheap and can do a lot to make the steering feel more precise and nimble without any drawbacks.

They're great cars, best on the road.

[CanadaCraig]

Thank you very much, 1990LS400!! I really enjoyed reading your message.

The car I'm driving while MY car is having a few things done [tell you how that all works out when I get my car back - Friday hopefully] is a 1999 LS. I can appreciate everything you said - especially about how silently the tilt/telescopic wheel moves into place. [compared to my '93 and your '90 - of course] A LOT more power - but only really noticable when you 'floor it'. The heater and stereo are much easier to read but I can't say IF the '99 Nakamichi is better than my Nakamichi because since the day I bought my car - I've had NO STEREO!! Grrr... Hopefully it sounds as nice. The seats are considerably more padded and hold you in place better when turning. But because of the extra padding [i'm assuming] there's less headroom. The '99 I'm driving has a to-die-for leather and wood steering wheel. It feels absolutely wonderful. [does your car have that?!]

The one thing that I've noticed is the number of people flashing their high-beams at me because they THINK I've got 'my' high-beams on. Not sure I like the HID lights - unless they can be adjusted downward or something. [can they?] As for what you said about the wheelbases being the same [between your '90 and 2000] that's not true. In 1995 the LS's wheelbase was stretched a bit. [1.4" to be exact - to 112.2"] Although that may not seem like much - it was enough to increase the rear seat leg room by 2.6". [and that's a lot] The LS430's wheelbase is even longer at 115.2".

Never really expected to have the '99 I'm driving THIS long. But it's been interesting. I just hope MY car [when I get it back] doesn't feel like an old taxi or something!! lol

Craig!! :)

[SW03ES]

Thats a drawback to the HID lights, you get used to them. They're not being blinded, they're just angry. Theres a fairly large anti-HID crowd out there (none of which have ever driven a car with HID...)

I love it, so much brighter and less eye strain at night, plus they look much more expensive and higher tech than halogen.

[99lsguy]

Craig,

Your points about the wood steering wheel, more power (higher tech engine), interior enhancements, and more leg room (especially for the back) are why I bought the 99 LS. Almost got a 97 Coach Ed. but had to have the WHEEL!!

I'm looking forward to your posts about the valve job - I hope the engine is SILENT :D

[1990LS400]

CanadaCraig,

Your observation on the longer wheelbase of the 98-00 LS is of course correct and certainly explains how Lexus squeezed out the additional backseat legroom. It is interesting how the length was kept the same over an 11 year period but how so much between the bumpers was rearranged. Another important change, at least to me, that my 160 mm snow skis easily fit in the trunk of the 2000 LS; my wife's 150 mm skis could just barely be forced into the 1990's trunk and there was no way mine fit in.

And SW03ES, I love the HID lights too and it is fun to watch them go through their automatic leveling dance each time the car is started at night -- almost looks like the car is "showing off". If all cars with HID had auto leveling (and if improperly aimed non-HID with "cool blue" or similar bulbs were not around), HID lights probably would not be getting a bad rap.

Back to cloth seats ... I think I remember that the early 300 SC sold in the U.S. came standard with cloth seats - and that the initial price of the 300 SC was only about $32,000 US. I sure am sliding around a bit on the leather seats (too small a butt) and I'm not sure I like the "La-Z-Boy chair heighth" on the 2000. But the increase heighth does makes it easier for older people to get in and out. And only last week did I find the First Aid kit under the drivers seat cushion. Need to re-read the manual ...

[SW03ES]

You should signup as the owner on lexus.com and download the electronic owners manual. Its great not to have to run out to the car when you want to look something up, and you can even search it.

[tansupplyman]

WOW !!!! Steve you didn't say that you could sign up for a FREE Owners Manual & Supplement to be sent to you at no cost.

At least that is what I just signed up for (so it said !!!!). Maybe they have changed that--go back and see if I am correct.

Also said you could not sign up for a manual but every 30 days ??????

If this is correct, another post should be made with subject "Free Owners Manual" !!!!!

[SW03ES]

Yep, they'll send you a new one