Some Issues With My 2005 Es 330

[Lexusfreak]

I've owned my 'new' 2005 ES 330 for 2 weeks now....(Lexus CPO still under full factory warranty) & I have noticed some concerns that I wanted to get some feedback on. Sorry if this is a bit of a long thread.

First off, I should say that I am a bit disappointed with the selling dealer (2 hours away & I bought the car off the sales manager himself with no sales reps involved) for the following reasons......I purchased this car on a Saturday & gave the dealer a full week to prep the car which I felt was more than enough time to get the car in CPO condition (IE going over the entire car with a fine tooth comb, order parts accordingly....and maybe perhaps follow what was on the bill of sale.....Imagine that! ). :whistles:

This morning I took the car into my local dealership for some warranty items...

- The power passenger mirror moves left & right, but not up & down (this was one of the first items I listed on the bill of sale with the selling dealer which they said they would address.....they 'forgot' to order the part! Fine.....it's under warranty and my local dealer has ordered the complete mirror assembly.

- The exterior 'B' pillar mouldings are pitted (which is quite common apparently on these cars) which should have been addressed during CPO.....it was not......my local dealer has ordered replacements....under warranty.

- I ordered (and paid for) a set of Lexus all weather rubber floor mats.....they have clip holes in order to be secured properly. First, all front clips were missing (replaced by my local dealer) & the service manager said that they are the wrong floor mats for the ES 330! Does anybody know the correct part number for these mats for the 2005 ES? The back ones appear to be fine and fit properly.

- After going over the car myself in the last couple of days (picture me on my hands & knees checking things out!), I noticed that the rear wheel fender linings (plastic & on both sides) have slight tears in them in the '10 O'clock position on the passenger side & about the 2 O'clock position on the drivers side....these roughly 'half inch' tears will allow the salt & moisture inside the rear fender area now.....the service manager said that this is the result of damage (he was scratching his head as to how the heck that happened) and is NOT covered.

- The OE 17" alloys have some pretty bad damage & chips as the result of stones & beleive it or not.....from air gun damage & are chipped by the lug nuts! My service manager said again this is the result of damage & not covered.

- The rear bumper on the passenger side has a slight scrape on it & I asked to have it 'buffed' out & touched up as best as possible (in writting on the bill of sale). This was not done & the sales manager said he was worried about making it worse than it was!

- Now heres the last item now....and this is the kicker.....at the dealership today, the service manager drove the car about 150 feet to one of the service bays.....he immediately came back after taking the car to his tech & asked me if I noticed any type of noise in the steering wheel while driving.....I said yes but explained that I was still getting to know my new vehicle and was not sure if this was normal or not.......long story short, the steering knuckle needs replacement! :chairshot: This is an item that should have been caught without question during the CPO inspection as it is quite a popular thing to go on the car apparently & is a safety issue (they have a revised steering knuckle and the part has been ordered under warranty). But the service manager was questioning (and shaking his head) how well they went over this car & now so am I. He also advised me not to drive on the highway for a few days just in case & until they replace the item.

To put it mildly, I am p ed!

Now I have contacted the sales manager of my selling dealer......he is going to address ALL my concerns (including switching all 4 alloys with another ES 330 on his lot). I expected to get some resistance, but he is actually been quite embarassed....especially with the steering knuckle issue. I spoke with him in a polite & calm way.....and was prepared to tell him I will go to Lexus Canada directly if need be, but the conversation never went that far which I am happy about.

Now my question to everyone is what is the best course of action here? I will make an appointment to take the car back to my selling dealer for some of these items (others will be addressed at my local dealer as mentioned under warranty).

I want them to re-CPO the vehicle at their expense because I'm wondering if they 'missed or forgot' anything else here (the big thing I did get under the CPO is the rear rotors & pads were replaced).

This sort of paints a bad picture of my vehicle.....but the appearance of the car is actually in fantastic condition & all service records were present and accounted for.....just an FYI & I do not regret this purchase (the blue shale mica is one of the most difficult colours to find and was what I wanted).

Any thoughts or opinions.....I am all ears.

[eatingupblacktop]

It's kind of a "catch 22". I remember buying some equipment one time from someone I didn't like. He was the Canadian distributor for the brand I wanted and I didn't want to go to the States for the purchase because of warranty considerations. Eventually finished the deal with his sales manager, otherwise I was ready to walk away. Nevertheless, his service department was top notch.....another reason to hold my nose and sign the deal.

Did you do a full inspection before purchase, ie - fender liners, rims, or did you notice these later?

The steering knuckle is a little more serious. How did the car pass a safety if you're being told not to drive the car on the highway?

When you say:

The rear bumper on the passenger side has a slight scrape on it & I asked to have it 'buffed' out & touched up as best as possible (in writting on the bill of sale). This was not done & the sales manager said he was worried about making it worse than it was!

you give them an out because you don't specify your expectation. "As best as possible" can be interpreted by them as meaning "not possible" within their expertise. Putting it in writing is always a good idea. But writing it so there is no misunderstanding or room for interpretation is better.

When you find something you've been looking for or something that not much else can substitute, you wind up putting up with oversights but it does make you check things twice and a little closer. It sounds like the service mgr could be a good one. Easy to consider the dealership incompetent or careless. Depends on what his explanations were. It doesn't give you much confidence though does it? One thing to consider once your present dealer gives it a final service, would be to take the car to another dealer for a complete inspection. Better still, since your in Canada, call the APA. They can refer you to an approved garage that does only inspections - no repairs. They will give you a complete written report on every part of your car for about $125. Nothing overlooked.

Last poiint: stay cool and calm and you'll get more co-operation. It sounds like that's what you did anyway since the mgr was apologetic and is willing to remedy things at their cost. Trust should be earned and not assumed. Good luck. Let us know how it turns out.

[Lexusfreak]

It's kind of a "catch 22". I remember buying some equipment one time from someone I didn't like. He was the Canadian distributor for the brand I wanted and I didn't want to go to the States for the purchase because of warranty considerations. Eventually finished the deal with his sales manager, otherwise I was ready to walk away. Nevertheless, his service department was top notch.....another reason to hold my nose and sign the deal.

Did you do a full inspection before purchase, ie - fender liners, rims, or did you notice these later?

The steering knuckle is a little more serious. How did the car pass a safety if you're being told not to drive the car on the highway?

When you say:

The rear bumper on the passenger side has a slight scrape on it & I asked to have it 'buffed' out & touched up as best as possible (in writting on the bill of sale). This was not done & the sales manager said he was worried about making it worse than it was!

you give them an out because you don't specify your expectation. "As best as possible" can be interpreted by them as meaning "not possible" within their expertise. Putting it in writing is always a good idea. But writing it so there is no misunderstanding or room for interpretation is better.

When you find something you've been looking for or something that not much else can substitute, you wind up putting up with oversights but it does make you check things twice and a little closer. It sounds like the service mgr could be a good one. Easy to consider the dealership incompetent or careless. Depends on what his explanations were. It doesn't give you much confidence though does it? One thing to consider once your present dealer gives it a final service, would be to take the car to another dealer for a complete inspection. Better still, since your in Canada, call the APA. They can refer you to an approved garage that does only inspections - no repairs. They will give you a complete written report on every part of your car for about $125. Nothing overlooked.

Last poiint: stay cool and calm and you'll get more co-operation. It sounds like that's what you did anyway since the mgr was apologetic and is willing to remedy things at their cost. Trust should be earned and not assumed. Good luck. Let us know how it turns out.

The car was originally in their used car showroom (from the pics I posted). The day I test drove & purchased the car, it was snowing & roads were slightly slick so when we returned to the dealership the car was a little dirty which hampered & masked my inspection somewhat. The car I thought drove very well overall & one must keep in mind that it is a pre-owned vehicle.....not brand new, right out of the box if you will. I did spot the slight scrape on the rear bumper however......which was mentioned on the bill of sale.

For the most part.....I guess I just needed to vent more than anything else when I got home from my local Lexus dealer......I was very angry about the steering knuckle more than any 'cosmetic' issue.......like I said, the selling dealer is 2 hours away & I drove the car home not knowing about the steering knuckle defect.....why was I so mad? Well I was glad my Wife & 9 month old son did not come with me the day I take delivery if you know what I'm saying. One of the reasons I wanted to buy only from another Lexus dealer.....what their throughness & attention to detail when going over the car which gave me piece of mind :whistles: .....that since has been lost. Missing a defective part like that was inexcuseable even for a regular Ontario 'certification' (at 'Bob's' used car lot) never mind a Lexus CPO 150+ point inspection. :chairshot:

I will stay calm & will report on how things will be looked after in the coming days......but I think I will be taken care of moving forward by the sound of things. B)

[SW03ES]

The steering knuckle issue is common. I had it on mine too and drove it a ton with the issue before the dealer figured it out. I wouldn't worry about it. It only comes out depending on certain outside conditions, if the outside conditions weren't right when they did the CPO inspection they would have missed it.

IMHO, its a used car and they seem willing to take care of the issues to your satisfaction. I wouldn't be worried about it.

I think this kinda reinforces my questions as to the real world benefits of the CPO program.

[Lexusfreak]

The steering knuckle issue is common. I had it on mine too and drove it a ton with the issue before the dealer figured it out. I wouldn't worry about it. It only comes out depending on certain outside conditions, if the outside conditions weren't right when they did the CPO inspection they would have missed it.

IMHO, its a used car and they seem willing to take care of the issues to your satisfaction. I wouldn't be worried about it.

I think this kinda reinforces my questions as to the real world benefits of the CPO program.

Agreed Steve......I know everything will work out in the end....and much more calm now than I was 24 hours ago lol. Thanks! ;)

[Lexusfreak]

Update

I'm dropping my ES off at the selling dealer to address the concerns I have and THEY missed (it's only taken 2 weeks to get this appointment!) & leaving the car for a week (parts need to be ordered & paint work done). Getting another CPO inspection out of it too & I hope they get it right this time & have made that crystal clear.

If not, I haven't played all my cards yet anyways (I find it sad I even have to mention this because it's a Lexus dealer!) so we shall see what happens.

A goodwill gesture by them would be to provide me with a 2008 LS600hL as a loaner lol. :whistles:

[eatingupblacktop]

Update

If not, I haven't played all my cards yet anyways (I find it sad I even have to mention this because it's a Lexus dealer!) so we shall see what happens.

A goodwill gesture by them would be to provide me with a 2008 LS600hL as a loaner lol. :whistles:

What I have found to be sad is for the most part there's no one who cares about your car as much as you do. Sometimes, when you're lucky you do find a tech who's proud of the work they do and gets satisfaction from a job well done and an appreciative customer. They're hard to come by. I used to take my volvo to this one mechanic who actually would give me s?it for anything I wasn't doing right. When he first moved across town, it took me 45 min to get there, but it was worth it. But then when he moved back out east, I was totally lost and didn't know where to go. After trying several replacements, I wound up doing most everything myself, because I couldn't find anyone who wouldn't leave butts on the floor, grease on the door pulls, overfilled fluids, or half the work requested not done, etc. Good luck.

[mburnickas]

What I have found to be sad is for the most part there's no one who cares about your car as much as you do. Sometimes, when you're lucky you do find a tech who's proud of the work they do and gets satisfaction from a job well done and an appreciative customer. They're hard to come by. I used to take my volvo to this one mechanic who actually would give me s?it for anything I wasn't doing right. When he first moved across town, it took me 45 min to get there, but it was worth it. But then when he moved back out east, I was totally lost and didn't know where to go. After trying several replacements, I wound up doing most everything myself, because I couldn't find anyone who wouldn't leave butts on the floor, grease on the door pulls, overfilled fluids, or half the work requested not done, etc. Good luck.

Tech's in my eyes are like engineers. Just doing it for the money and do not care. Most are hacks and do not care. I know in houston I get worse service then up north. Maybe $$$ related or not. Then again when up north clowns put cherry smell in a leather care...they suck!

For me, best person to work on my car is ME or my buddy (does this for a living on real trucks). If we cannot figure it out, it cannot be done.

[Lexusfreak]

I've put all of my concerns down in writting & they have given me a 2006 IS250 AWD (with winter rubber) for the week as a loaner (nice ride overall, but I find the interior quite cramped if I'm honest & a tad underpowered). Nice handler too.

I am dealing with the assistant service manager & he has been quite understanding & very apologetic. I will be checking in a couple times with him this week that everything is getting fixed & things are on schedule. Will keep everyone posted.

They got the impression that if my car is not up to the Lexus CPO standards (Lexus Canada has this in writting & it's very clear) when I pick the car up next week.....there will be trouble (Lexus Canada is on my speed dial....so I have their attention now....beleive me). ;)

[eatingupblacktop]

They got the impression that if my car is not up to the Lexus CPO standards

(Lexus Canada has this in writting & it's very clear) when I pick

the car up next week.....there will be trouble (Lexus Canada is on my

speed dial....so I have their attention now....beleive me).

If you can't get any satisfaction, use the line Tom Waits used in one of

his movies "Ya want trubble.......I come from where they make it!"

Then again when up north clowns put cherry smell in a leather care...they suck!

Mburnickas, with your new avatar and that line, are you giving us a hint that you plan to be "clowning

around" from now on?

[Lexusfreak]

Picked up my car from the selling dealer on Saturday (left the car the whole week). I am happy to report that almost all (a couple very minor items still outstanding mind you) of my concerns have been addressed for no charge...

- Rear bumper painted & looks great!

- Had a large stone chip on the bottom moulding of the drivers side door that was re-painted

- Car was completely Re-CPO'd & even though they passed the CPO inspection, they decided to put new front pads on for me (the rear rotors & pads were replaced already last month).

- New rear fender linings installed

- All weather mats replaced (on order) as they gave me a set for the RX originally!

- They are switching 2 of my alloys which were pretty badly chipped from a careless tech & an air gun.

- They agreed to pain my 4 'B' pillars when the weather gets a little nicer.

- Finally, a couple of additional minor adjustments here & there.

They should have delivered the car in this condition originally when I took delivery, but better late than never I guess. B)

[dcfish]

What I have found to be sad is for the most part there's no one who cares about your car as much as you do. Sometimes, when you're lucky you do find a tech who's proud of the work they do and gets satisfaction from a job well done and an appreciative customer. They're hard to come by. I used to take my volvo to this one mechanic who actually would give me s?it for anything I wasn't doing right. When he first moved across town, it took me 45 min to get there, but it was worth it. But then when he moved back out east, I was totally lost and didn't know where to go. After trying several replacements, I wound up doing most everything myself, because I couldn't find anyone who wouldn't leave butts on the floor, grease on the door pulls, overfilled fluids, or half the work requested not done, etc. Good luck.

Tech's in my eyes are like engineers. Just doing it for the money and do not care. Most are hacks and do not care. I know in houston I get worse service then up north. Maybe $$$ related or not. Then again when up north clowns put cherry smell in a leather care...they suck!

For me, best person to work on my car is ME or my buddy (does this for a living on real trucks). If we cannot figure it out, it cannot be done.

"If we cannot figure it out, it cannot be done" Pretty bold statement, mburnickas, You and your buddy must be the keepers of infinite wisdom, Or maybe you have a wisdom tree in your yard J/K. I couldn't pass that statement up

Lexusfreak, Happy to hear that the dealer is doing the right thing, Good for you. ;)

[eatingupblacktop]

Picked up my car from the selling dealer on Saturday (left the car the whole week). I am happy to report that almost all (a couple very minor items still outstanding mind you) of my concerns have been addressed for no charge...

They should have delivered the car in this condition originally when I took delivery, but better late than never I guess. B)

One of the toughest challenges in trying to get poor service corrected is to stay cool and not explode. You know the job is subpar, things have been overlooked, etc., so you want to blast them for being unprofessoinal and wasting your time. I also hate having to convince someone that they have to fix things at their cost. If it takes chewing on an ice cube to stay cool, it's worth it. I found out a long time ago, putting yourself in the other person's shoes gives you a better perspective in determining how to get the most cooperation and best results. Good on ya!

[Lexusfreak]

One of the toughest challenges in trying to get poor service corrected is to stay cool and not explode. You know the job is subpar, things have been overlooked, etc., so you want to blast them for being unprofessoinal and wasting your time. I also hate having to convince someone that they have to fix things at their cost. If it takes chewing on an ice cube to stay cool, it's worth it. I found out a long time ago, putting yourself in the other person's shoes gives you a better perspective in determining how to get the most cooperation and best results. Good on ya!

Couldn't agree more eatingblacktop. :)