wwest Posted December 3, 2007 Posted December 3, 2007 Back when the RX330 first came out I was seriously considering trading up so I purchased the Lexus shop/repair manuals. What I discovered was that while the advertising information indicated that the RX330 still used the viscous clutch across the center diff'l to "stiffen up" the otherwise flaccid coupling to the rear driveline in actually it did not, there was no VC in the RX330 series. When I contacted Lexus about the "disconnect" between marketing and engineering the information at Lexus .com was corrected. Now fast forward to the introduction of the RX350 series. The Lexus.com information for the RX350 indicated that the VC was back in use on the RX350, it still does today. I recently had reason to rejoin the techinfo.toyota.com information site and on something of a whim looked up the matter of the VC in use for the RX350. The '08 Lexus RX350 shop/repair manuals indicate there is NO VC in use for the '07 or '08 model year RX350. I contacted Lexus via the "chat" procedure and at the moment they tell me that they are looking into the matter. For those of you who have purchased an AWD RX350 thinking you had a more satisfactory F/AWD system than simple TC (Traction Control) "limited slip" (moderate braking of the slipping [front] wheels accompanied by simultaneous engine dethrottling) you may very well have a legitimate claim against Lexus for false advertising. I'll post when (or IF) Lexus gets back to me with an answer.
rajkal Posted December 6, 2007 Posted December 6, 2007 Not sure what exactly this would mean but if there was some sort of false advertising then we all need to act on it so it doesnt get repeated. Please do keep the whole team informed of your findings. Thanks.
wwest Posted December 6, 2007 Author Posted December 6, 2007 Lexus Chat dialog this AM. Darrius Brown: Hi, my name is Darrius Brown. How may I help you? willard: about two weeks ago now I used chat to put in a query about/if the RX350 actually has a viscous clutch across the center diff'l? Darrius Brown: Ok, How can I help you? willard: The RX330 shop/repair doesn't show one but my Rx300 manual does. willard: Detailed specification for the RX at Lexus.com says it does.. willard: Which is correct?? Darrius Brown: A viscous clutch? willard: Yes, if you go to lexus.com, RX350, detailed specs it indicates the RX350 has a VC in the center diff'l. Darrius Brown: One moment.. willard: The '08 RX350 shop/repair manual at techinfo.toyota.com seems to indcate otherwise. Darrius Brown: The AWD has a viscous clutch and the FWD does not. willard: What about the FACT that the shop/repair manual indicates it, the AWD version, does not..?? Darrius Brown: Which shop/repair manual is this? From the dealer? willard: At techinfo.toyota.com willard: Both the 07 nad 08 RX350 shop manuals indicate that they is NO VC in the AWD models Darrius Brown: I do apologize. I do show a viscous clutch in the vehicle. I will check the tech site. willard: Yes, I know, this was also done initially for the RX330 series, marketing stated taht it did when in actuallity it did not. Darrius Brown: I do apologize for the confusion. willard: I have hardcopy manuals purchased from the dealer for '00, '01 and '04 RX models. willard: Doesn't this border on misrepresentation or maybe even fraud...? Darrius Brown: One moment please. willard: The VC would add a significant level of functionality to an F/AWD system were it actually used. Darrius Brown: If you can please call our customer experience line at 800-255-2992 we can look further into you inquiry. willard: Who do I ask for..?? Darrius Brown: Anyone will be able to assist you further. willard: Okay... Darrius Brown: I do apologize for the confusion.
wwest Posted December 11, 2007 Author Posted December 11, 2007 Disregard the phone number given to me above, it's WRONG. Called the correct number and ended up, yet again, being told that I will be contacted within 48 hours with research status.
lenore Posted December 11, 2007 Posted December 11, 2007 So by that pdf the drive on the RX330 is 50/50 drive????? But not the Viscous coupling.
wwest Posted December 11, 2007 Author Posted December 11, 2007 So by that pdf the drive on the RX330 is 50/50 drive????? But not the Viscous coupling. Yes, just like any open diff'l setup the engine torque will be evenly distributed across all driven wheels...... Just as long as all driven wheels have roughly equal roadbed traction...!! But just as soon as any ONE wheel slips the engine torque becomes LIMITED by the LOW torque level required to keep that wheel spinning. For the RX330 and 350 that's when TC, Traction Control, is activated, braking the slipping wheel(s), to sustain, maintain, a "higher" torque level, while simultaneously DETHROTTLING the engine to prevent inadvertent brake overheating. Apparently Lexus has totally (fraudulently..??) misled RX330 and RX350 buyers into thinking they have the more robust F/AWD system that came with the RX300.
SKperformance Posted December 12, 2007 Posted December 12, 2007 Funny enough i don't think 99.999999 percent of rx owners even know what a vc is never mind how it would help them. lol
wwest Posted December 12, 2007 Author Posted December 12, 2007 Funny enough i don't think 99.999999 percent of rx owners even know what a vc is never mind how it would help them.lol But if you enter a market and establish a reputation with some aspect and then discard that aspect but lie to future customers.....
SKperformance Posted December 12, 2007 Posted December 12, 2007 no no , i agree with you . I was just stating that most would have no clue to what it is to establish a unique value on having the part for them to suffer a loss.
wwest Posted December 12, 2007 Author Posted December 12, 2007 no no , i agree with you . I was just stating that most would have no clue to what it is to establish a unique value on having the part for them to suffer a loss. Agreed, absolutely....
wwest Posted January 31, 2008 Author Posted January 31, 2008 Found this in my past emails... Recently you submitted a question to the Lexus Customer Satisfaction Department. We will assume your issue has been resolved if we do not hear from you within 120 hours. Thank you for allowing us to be of service to you. You may also update this question by replying to this message. Because your reply will be automatically processed, you MUST enter your reply in the space below. Text entered into any other part of this message will be discarded. [===> Please enter your reply below this line <===] [===> Please enter your reply above this line <===] If your issue remains unresolved, please update this question at http://lexus.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/lexus.cf...ated=1098835191 Subject --------------------------------------------------------------- No Summary Discussion Thread --------------------------------------------------------------- Response (Richard Hollingsworth) - 10/27/2004 09:41 AM Dear Mr. West, Thank you for contacting Lexus Customer Satisfaction regarding the 2005 RX 330. We appreciate your interest in this vehicle. Per our technical department, the 2005 RX 330 does not have a viscous coupling LSD. The vehicle has adopted a full-time all-wheel drive system. We are sorry for the misinformation. If you would like to discuss your concerns further, you can also reach the Lexus Customer Satisfaction Department at 1-800-255-3987, Monday through Friday, 6:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m., Pacific Time. Sincerely, Richard Hollingsworth Lexus Customer Satisfaction Customer (Willard West) - 10/26/2004 04:59 PM The current 2005 RX330 e-brochure indicates that the 2005 AWD RX330 has the viscous coupling again. Is this actually true or is this a typo? Willard West
arbitrage1 Posted February 3, 2008 Posted February 3, 2008 Are you kidding me with this???? If I cant get up my driveway because one wheel is spinning on my 14 day old, AWD, $45,000 suv, angry wont even come close to my reaction.
wwest Posted February 3, 2008 Author Posted February 3, 2008 For references just google: "Willard West" Or/and: wwest denso demist
wwest Posted February 5, 2008 Author Posted February 5, 2008 RX350 Viscous Clutch Stefanie, The 2007 RX350 Lexus shop/repair manual at techinfo.toyota.com does indeed state that the RX350 series uses the MF2AV transfer unit vs the MF2A used in the RX330. According to the accompaning component layout/diagram the MF2AV has a Viscous Clutch. But in searching for "viscous" or "MF2AV" in the 2007 and 2008 Lexus shop/repair manuals I get a return of "not found". On the other hand if I search for MF2A both RX350 repair manual sets, '07 and '08, indicate the use of the MF2A transfer which does not have a viscous clutch. According to New Car Features for the 2004 RX330 it is not VSC, but TRAC, Traction Control, that supplants the need for a viscous clutch. The wording for TRAC functionality in the 2008 RX350 is EXACTLY the same as that for the 2004 RX330. Assuming you are correct and the RX350 actually has/uses a VC, whose responsibility is it now to notify the personel in charge of publishing the RX350 shop/repair manuals that a MASSIVE revision must be made. Willard West ----- Original Message ----- From: Lexus Customer Satisfaction To: Ceo Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 3:48 PM Subject: RX350 Viscous Clutch [incident: 080131-000328] Recently you submitted a question to the Lexus Customer Satisfaction Department. Thank you for allowing us to be of service to you. Subject RX350 Viscous Clutch Discussion Thread Response (Stefanie Oda) 02/04/2008 03:48 PM Dear Mr. West: Thank you for contacting Lexus Customer Satisfaction. Your concern is important to Lexus, and we appreciate the time you have taken to share your thoughts. We are dedicated to providing superior service. In circumstances that require our attention, we will assist in the resolution process. We can advise you for the 2008 RX 350, to achieve enhanced control and drivability, while delivering superior traction, the RX 350 is equipped with a viscous coupling center Limited Slip Differential (LCD). For the 2006 RX 330, to achieve superior controllability and traction, Vehicle Stability Control (VSC) replaces the previous generation's heavier viscous Limited Slip differential (LSD). We hope this information is helpful. We hope you continue to enjoy Lexus vehicles for many years and miles to come. If you require further assistance, please respond to this e-mail, or contact Lexus Customer Satisfaction at 1-800-255-3987, Monday through Friday, 5:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m., or Saturday, 7:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m., Pacific Time. Sincerely, Stefanie N. Oda Lexus Customer Satisfaction Customer (Willard West) 01/31/2008 02:28 PM All of your advertising, dealer brochures, e-brochures, and online technical specifications indicate that the RX350 uses a VC across the center diff'l. The information at techinfo.toyota.com indicates that it does NOT. Apparently the same thing happened with the RX330. Which is correct..?? See below ________________________________________________________________________________ __________ The following was in my email archives.... --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- ...Recently you submitted a question to the Lexus Customer Satisfaction Department. We will assume your issue has been resolved if we do not hear from you within 120 hours. Thank you for allowing us to be of service to you. You may also update this question by replying to this message. Because your reply will be automatically processed, you MUST enter your reply in the space below. Text entered into any other part of this message will be discarded. [===> Please enter your reply below this line Please enter your reply above this line <===] If your issue remains unresolved, please update this question at <a href="http://lexus.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/lexus.cfg/php/enduser/acct_login.php?p_userid=west@strobedata.com&p_next_page=myq_upd.php&p_refno=041026-000006&p_created=1098835191" target="_blank">http://lexus.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/lexus.cfg/php/enduser/acct_login.php?p_userid=- west@strobedata.com&p_next_page=myq_upd.php&p_refno=041026-000006&p_created=1098- 835191</a> Subject --------------------------------------------------------------- No Summary Discussion Thread --------------------------------------------------------------- Response (Richard Hollingsworth) - 10/27/2004 09:41 AM Dear Mr. West, Thank you for contacting Lexus Customer Satisfaction regarding the 2005 RX 330. We appreciate your interest in this vehicle. Per our technical department, the 2005 RX 330 does not have a viscous coupling LSD. The vehicle has adopted a full-time all-wheel drive system. We are sorry for the misinformation. If you would like to discuss your concerns further, you can also reach the Lexus Customer Satisfaction Department at 1-800-255-3987, Monday through Friday, 6:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m., Pacific Time. Sincerely, Richard Hollingsworth Lexus Customer Satisfaction Customer (Willard West) - 10/26/2004 04:59 PM The current 2005 RX330 e-brochure indicates that the 2005 AWD RX330 has the viscous coupling again. Is this actually true or is this a typo? Willard West
wwest Posted February 5, 2008 Author Posted February 5, 2008 From the 2009 RX350 shop/repair manual: Does "2. Traction Control Operation" make it sound as if a VC is in use..?? Even if it were actually installed..?? System Outline 1.ABS Operation If the brake pedal is depressed suddenly, the ABS controls the hydraulic pressure of the wheel cylinders for all four of the wheels automatically to prevent the wheels from locking and ensure the directional and steering stability of the vehicle. If the brake pedal is depressed suddenly, the skid control ECU controls the solenoids in the actuators using the signals from the sensors to move the brake fluid to the reservoir in order to release the braking pressure applied to the wheel cylinders. Additionally, if the skid control ECU detects that the fluid pressure in the wheel cylinder is insufficient, the ECU controls the solenoids in the actuators to increase the braking pressure. 2.Traction Control Operation The traction control system controls the engine torque, the hydraulic pressure of the driving wheel cylinders, and any wheel slipping which occurs at take off or during acceleration of the vehicle, to optimize the driving power and vehicle stability according to the road conditions. 3.VSC Operation Unexpected road conditions, vehicle speed, emergency situations, and other external factors may cause large a under or oversteer of the vehicle. If this occurs, the VSC system automatically controls the engine power and wheel brakes to reduce the under or oversteer. Reducing excessive oversteer : If the VSC system determines that the oversteer is excessive, it activates the brakes on the outer turning wheels according to the degree of the oversteer to produce moment toward the outside of the vehicle and reduce the oversteer. Reducing large understeering : If the VSC system determines that the understeer is excessive, it controls the engine power and activates the rear wheel brakes to reduce the understeer. 4.Mutual System Control To efficiently operate the VSC system at its optimal level, the VSC system and other control systems are collectively controlled while the VSC system is being operated. Engine fuel injection control The engine power is prevented from interfering with the VSC brake control by adjusting the fuel injection opening and reducing the engine output. Engine control and electronically controlled transmission control Strong engine braking force is prevented from interfering with the braking force control of the VSC system by turning off the accelerator and reducing changes in the driving torque at shiftdown. VSC system operation indication The slip indicator light flashes and the buzzer sounds intermittently to warn the driver that the current road is slippery, whenever the VSC system is operating. 5.Fail Safe Function If an error occurs in the skid control ECU, sensor signals, and/or actuators, the skid control ECU inhibits the brake actuator control and inputs an error signal to the engine control module. According to the error signal, the brake actuator turns off the solenoid and the engine control module rejects any electronically controlled throttle open requests from the VSC system. As a result, the vehicle continues to function but without the ABS, TRAC, and VSC systems. ----- Original Message ----- From: Lexus Customer Satisfaction To: Ceo Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 3:48 PM Subject: RX350 Viscous Clutch [incident: 080131-000328] Recently you submitted a question to the Lexus Customer Satisfaction Department. Thank you for allowing us to be of service to you. Subject RX350 Viscous Clutch Discussion Thread Response (Stefanie Oda) 02/04/2008 03:48 PM Dear Mr. West: Thank you for contacting Lexus Customer Satisfaction. Your concern is important to Lexus, and we appreciate the time you have taken to share your thoughts. We are dedicated to providing superior service. In circumstances that require our attention, we will assist in the resolution process. We can advise you for the 2008 RX 350, to achieve enhanced control and drivability, while delivering superior traction, the RX 350 is equipped with a viscous coupling center Limited Slip Differential (LCD). For the 2006 RX 330, to achieve superior controllability and traction, Vehicle Stability Control (VSC) replaces the previous generation's heavier viscous Limited Slip differential (LSD). We hope this information is helpful. We hope you continue to enjoy Lexus vehicles for many years and miles to come. If you require further assistance, please respond to this e-mail, or contact Lexus Customer Satisfaction at 1-800-255-3987, Monday through Friday, 5:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m., or Saturday, 7:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m., Pacific Time. Sincerely, Stefanie N. Oda Lexus Customer Satisfaction Customer (Willard West) 01/31/2008 02:28 PM All of your advertising, dealer brochures, e-brochures, and online technical specifications indicate that the RX350 uses a VC across the center diff'l. The information at techinfo.toyota.com indicates that it does NOT. Apparently the same thing happened with the RX330. Which is correct..?? See below ________________________________________________________________________________ __________ The following was in my email archives.... --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- ...Recently you submitted a question to the Lexus Customer Satisfaction Department. We will assume your issue has been resolved if we do not hear from you within 120 hours. Thank you for allowing us to be of service to you. You may also update this question by replying to this message. Because your reply will be automatically processed, you MUST enter your reply in the space below. Text entered into any other part of this message will be discarded. [===> Please enter your reply below this line Please enter your reply above this line <===] If your issue remains unresolved, please update this question at <a href="http://lexus.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/lexus.cfg/php/enduser/acct_login.php?p_userid=west@strobedata.com&p_next_page=myq_upd.php&p_refno=041026-000006&p_created=1098835191" target="_blank">http://lexus.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/lexus.cfg/php/enduser/acct_login.php?p_userid=- west@strobedata.com&p_next_page=myq_upd.php&p_refno=041026-000006&p_created=1098- 835191</a> Subject --------------------------------------------------------------- No Summary Discussion Thread --------------------------------------------------------------- Response (Richard Hollingsworth) - 10/27/2004 09:41 AM Dear Mr. West, Thank you for contacting Lexus Customer Satisfaction regarding the 2005 RX 330. We appreciate your interest in this vehicle. Per our technical department, the 2005 RX 330 does not have a viscous coupling LSD. The vehicle has adopted a full-time all-wheel drive system. We are sorry for the misinformation. If you would like to discuss your concerns further, you can also reach the Lexus Customer Satisfaction Department at 1-800-255-3987, Monday through Friday, 6:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m., Pacific Time. Sincerely, Richard Hollingsworth Lexus Customer Satisfaction Customer (Willard West) - 10/26/2004 04:59 PM The current 2005 RX330 e-brochure indicates that the 2005 AWD RX330 has the viscous coupling again. Is this actually true or is this a typo? Willard West
jaddyrx350 Posted February 8, 2008 Posted February 8, 2008 Dear wwest: Please keep me posted on your findings I purchased a left over 2007 RX350 this past fall. signed, jaddyrx350 (my profile is available to receive direct emails). Back when the RX330 first came out I was seriously considering trading up so I purchased the Lexus shop/repair manuals.What I discovered was that while the advertising information indicated that the RX330 still used the viscous clutch across the center diff'l to "stiffen up" the otherwise flaccid coupling to the rear driveline in actually it did not, there was no VC in the RX330 series. When I contacted Lexus about the "disconnect" between marketing and engineering the information at Lexus .com was corrected. Now fast forward to the introduction of the RX350 series. The Lexus.com information for the RX350 indicated that the VC was back in use on the RX350, it still does today. I recently had reason to rejoin the techinfo.toyota.com information site and on something of a whim looked up the matter of the VC in use for the RX350. The '08 Lexus RX350 shop/repair manuals indicate there is NO VC in use for the '07 or '08 model year RX350. I contacted Lexus via the "chat" procedure and at the moment they tell me that they are looking into the matter. For those of you who have purchased an AWD RX350 thinking you had a more satisfactory F/AWD system than simple TC (Traction Control) "limited slip" (moderate braking of the slipping [front] wheels accompanied by simultaneous engine dethrottling) you may very well have a legitimate claim against Lexus for false advertising. I'll post when (or IF) Lexus gets back to me with an answer.
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now