Help! Issues After Timing Belt & Water Pump Change

[tsarang]

Hi all, I have a 96' Lexus LS400, 116,000 miles. I have owned it for four years now. without any major issues exept a Power steering pump leak which was promptly and easily fixed by replacing the pump and the hose. I am pleased and happy to say that my baby has given me years of smooth and superb nohassle driving.

I was reading about preventative maintainence on this forum and one of my known mechanics recommended to have the timing belt changed after inspecting it during a routine oil change. I went ahead with it last week and at the same time decided to have the water pump changed. the repair shop took three days for this and when i got the car back I had the following problems.

a. coolant reservoir gets empty every day.

b. check engine light is on.

c. Heater does not work even after the climate control is on high heat.

I took the car back to the dealership and here is there explanation

a. coolant reservoir gets empty every day.

the leak is coming from behind the transmission (Please see attached pictures) and the freeze plugs have gone bad, these need to be replaced at a cost of $650+h

b. check engine light is on

it is a misfire, you will require to do tuning, replace distributor caps, wires, plugs cost $350+

I had the code diagnozed with autozone and it was PO340, camshaft position sensor issue. so Here I came to know there is something funny going on with these guys.

c. Heater does not work even after the climate control is on high heat.

they disowned this issue saying it must have been like that before the car was bought to them.

my question to u'll is

1) for the cooling problem, is there analysis correct?. What would have caused the freeze plugs to leak so suddenly just after the service?. I smell something fishy, do you guys smell the same? did they screw up somewhere?

2) what is the PO340 code?. is it an issue that would have been caused by the service?

3) whats up with the heater?

my car was perfect before i got my car with them, If these problems are due to there stingy service, what rights do i have as a consumer?. how can i prove there fault and most importantly how can i fix this?

ur inputs will be highly appreciated

My baby is not drivable and this is causing a lot of pain and stress, please help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

[tsarang]

here are the pics

[OmarG]

agh! my car is leaking coolant from the same place! at first i thought it was the water pump. But the water pump seems fine. I'm gonna do a pressure test so i can see where the coolant is coming from. Hopefully it just a gasket or old hose somewhere. Is there any chance that coolant is leaking on your timing belt? it is on mine.

I'm sorry i can't be of any help, but please keep us updated.

Have you ever changed the spark plugs, wires and dist? I think they are supposed to be replaced every 90k.

i've had bad experiences with mechanics, so i try to do everything myself. sorry if your mech is bein lame.

[tsarang]

agh! my car is leaking coolant from the same place! at first i thought it was the water pump. But the water pump seems fine. I'm gonna do a pressure test so i can see where the coolant is coming from. Hopefully it just a gasket or old hose somewhere. Is there any chance that coolant is leaking on your timing belt? it is on mine.

I'm sorry i can't be of any help, but please keep us updated.

Have you ever changed the spark plugs, wires and dist? I think they are supposed to be replaced every 90k.

i've had bad experiences with mechanics, so i try to do everything myself. sorry if your mech is bein lame.

Hi OmarG,

The wire's and Spark Plugs were changed at 100,000Miles service. all superior stuff like ngk iridiums and plug wires.

Yes a test to find the leak is a good idea, Please dont mind my question as I am not mechanically inclined, What is the pressure test you are doing? where can I do this? how much does it cost?.

Those guys want to tear apart my transmission to fix the leak. They say that its the freeze plugs behind the transmission thats leaking. How can they say this without running any proper tests? I am having nightmares just thinking about this. after seeing what crap they did with my engine, just imagine what they will/can do with my transmission. anyways I am taking the car to two different shops to get it analyzed. I will let you know what they say.

Any GURU"S out there, Please let us know if you have any idea what is going on, your help will be much appreciated. Thank's.

[steve2006]

Hi,

With all these faults now present I would be wondering if they have done the timing belt correctly!!!

The water leak from the freeze plug ( we call them core plugs in the UK) seems a bit iffy to me as these generally start to leak slowly and you would have seen evidence of this in the past under the car. I have never heard of one failing especially at the back of the engine where there is no exposure to the outside world plus these engines have the best anti corrosion antifreeze to prevent block damage.

The heater will not work if you are loosing coolant because as you lose the coolant the heater matrix will also drain out ( it's worrying that the garage doesn't know this fact and told you it must have been like it before!)

I should get a 2nd opinion to make sure it's not a leak from the "new" water pump.

The fault code you have for the camshaft sensor sounds like it's either been damaged or the wiring to it has during the "belt change" also the wires and distributors have to be removed during the cambelt change and may have been damaged or if they are the original ones the strain may have been too much for them.

I would also look for a good attorney!

[larryp]

Contact the Better Business Bureau and see if they are a member. You are getting taken for a ride as a result of shoddy work. Talk with the owner if you haven't already and raise hell. No heat is probably a result of low coolant. I'm not a master mechanic, but i'm pretty sure a camshaft position sensor error wouldn't have anything to do with distributor cap, rotor, or plug wires. A sudden coolant leak after a major repair job would be a huge coincidence don't you think? Not sure why it would be leaking from the rear of the engine as any issues with water pump replacement would normally show up near the front of the engine. Obvious from their responses that they are trying to take you to the cleaners and don't really have a clue as to what is wrong. Good luck.

[OmarG]

agh! my car is leaking coolant from the same place! at first i thought it was the water pump. But the water pump seems fine. I'm gonna do a pressure test so i can see where the coolant is coming from. Hopefully it just a gasket or old hose somewhere. Is there any chance that coolant is leaking on your timing belt? it is on mine.

I'm sorry i can't be of any help, but please keep us updated.

Have you ever changed the spark plugs, wires and dist? I think they are supposed to be replaced every 90k.

i've had bad experiences with mechanics, so i try to do everything myself. sorry if your mech is bein lame.

Hi OmarG,

The wire's and Spark Plugs were changed at 100,000Miles service. all superior stuff like ngk iridiums and plug wires.

Yes a test to find the leak is a good idea, Please dont mind my question as I am not mechanically inclined, What is the pressure test you are doing? where can I do this? how much does it cost?.

Those guys want to tear apart my transmission to fix the leak. They say that its the freeze plugs behind the transmission thats leaking. How can they say this without running any proper tests? I am having nightmares just thinking about this. after seeing what crap they did with my engine, just imagine what they will/can do with my transmission. anyways I am taking the car to two different shops to get it analyzed. I will let you know what they say.

Any GURU"S out there, Please let us know if you have any idea what is going on, your help will be much appreciated. Thank's.

I'm just going to do a coolant pressure test. Pretty much i get a fancy bike pump with a gauge and pump about 25 psi (maybe more or less) into the cooling system and radiator. That way it will increase the pressure and i can hopefully see where the leak is coming from without the car having to be on.

I borrowed the tool from Autozone's "tool loan program". Pretty much you pay a deposit and they loan you the tool. As soon as its returned, you get your deposit back. Pretty cool eh?

[Mad Dawg 350]

Sorry to hear of your troubles. Just curious, were the repairs (timing belt/water pump) initially done at an independent shop or at the dealership?? IMO, I would only trust the dealership (nothing against independent repairs shops) to do this kind of major service for they would have far more experience and would know all the little idiosyncrasies.

[mehullica]

There is no "freeze plug" on these 1uzfe blocks. There are 2 drains, one on each side the the block and 1 water plate near the right motor mount that is sealed with 2 nuts and FIPG. By the looks of where the leak is, I'd say the heater control valve, or rear water bypass that connects each of the cylinder heads is leaking. If either of these are leaking it will run down to the bottom between the engine and trans area.

[tsarang]

There is no "freeze plug" on these 1uzfe blocks. There are 2 drains, one on each side the the block and 1 water plate near the right motor mount that is sealed with 2 nuts and FIPG. By the looks of where the leak is, I'd say the heater control valve, or rear water bypass that connects each of the cylinder heads is leaking. If either of these are leaking it will run down to the bottom between the engine and trans area.

Hi Mehullica,

after running around with my car to several shops the whole day and refilling the coolant reservior twice, this is the only reasonable explanation I have heard that made sense to me. every crap mechanic out there is pointing to the "freeze plug" which even to my limited mechanical inclination does not make any sense.

Please correct me if i am wrong but after much investigation and reading i found out that the freeze plug fails under these two major conditions.

a) if the coolant has never been flushed and the interior of the cooling system corrodes/rusts then the freeze plugs get effected and start leaking.

I had done a complete coolant flush and refill about a year/16,000 miles back at the 100,000 mile servicing, apart from that i had flushed the system approx two years back, 80,000 Miles, so this factor is completely ruled out

B) if the car's coolant becomes frozen and this coolant expands it breaks the plug to ease the pressure instead of breaking the engine block. (this is the actual reason for the plug being there, "freeze plug").

Yeah Right!!!!!. somebody explain how that can happen in a Florida Summer where we average 95-105F temperatures.

now the parts that were mentioned "the heater control valve, or rear water bypass that connects each channel of the cylinder head's"

how can we diagnose with certanity that these are leaking?. is there any way to check for sure?. would these parts get effected from the water pump/timing belt change? do we need to replace the parts or reseal them with sealant?

I would appreciate your expert feedback. thank's

also I got the service done at pepboys in tallahassee, FL, we dont have lexus in town, the nearest dealership is in jacksonville about 200+ miles away.

[tsarang]

LS Expert's/Guru's any Idea how to get to

"the heater control valve", or "rear water bypass" mentioned by Mehullica?

[tsarang]

Guys, Any word's of wisdom? Still going around in a leaky Car!!!!!!!

[mehullica]

The heater control valve is bolted to the firewall, on the passenger side. Has black hoses connecting to it, one from the rear water bypass delivering hot water to it, and another leading from the valve into the firewall to deliver hot water to the heater core. I have atteached a pdf of this. The rear water bypass is on page 3 of the STARTER pdf.

starter.pdf

waterval.pdf

[tsarang]

Thanks for the pdf's Mehullica, :)

I have the car back at the repair shop. They conducted a pressure test and guess what they found? the water-pump they had replaced was leaking and I am pretty sure they have pulled on some other pipes too while the were at it. Lets see what they do. In the meanwhile I am speaking with my attorney .

[mehullica]

That's good that they found the problem. There is an oring for the metal water bypass tube that pulls water from the heater core into the water pump. Make sure that they change that oring as the water pump may not be the only leak. I've seen many people neglet to change it or it gets push off as a new water pump is installed, causing a "leaking water pump"

[steve2006]

Hey that's not bad I almost got the problem diagnosed and thats from over 4000 miles away!

[tsarang]

OK Guys, it's about four days now after I got the car back from them I dont have any leak atall.

I am pretty sure they forgot to put on the water pump gasket or something like that. They gave me some bullsh***t about finally ending up putting in a new water pump as they couldn't find the water pump gasket available anywhere in the market.

My car is back to the way it was, as smooth as ever and the codes have magically vanished.

Thanks to all u Folk's especially MEHULLICA, I didn't end up opening my transmission. that would have cost me $$$$$ plus the anguish whether it was all put back correctly.

Three cheer's for "lexusownersclub.com" :)

[steve2006]

Mmm that's interesting I don't think there is a gasket as such but you have to use the liquid gasket so it does sound a bit like BS what they said.

If you want to see whats involved including the gasket on the waterpump have a look at this link

http://www.lexls.com/tutorials/engine/timingbelt.html

Glad you got it all sorted out

Cheers,

Steve