Has Anyone Done Their Own Brakes?

[Grumpa72]

Reading the post about premature pad and rotor wear caused me to wonder if anyone had done their own brake rotor and/or pad changes? I know on my Acura and my son's Honda, pad change is so simple a cave man can do it! Loosed the one caliper retaining bolt, pivot the rotor up (down? sorry can't remember which way), replace the pads and pivot back up.

Gary

'05 330

[lenore]

GEICO......................caveman

[Ericok]

Reading the post about premature pad and rotor wear caused me to wonder if anyone had done their own brake rotor and/or pad changes? I know on my Acura and my son's Honda, pad change is so simple a cave man can do it! Loosed the one caliper retaining bolt, pivot the rotor up (down? sorry can't remember which way), replace the pads and pivot back up.

Gary

'05 330

Can't speak for the RX330, but it's the same procedure on the RX300.

[artbuc]

Reading the post about premature pad and rotor wear caused me to wonder if anyone had done their own brake rotor and/or pad changes? I know on my Acura and my son's Honda, pad change is so simple a cave man can do it! Loosed the one caliper retaining bolt, pivot the rotor up (down? sorry can't remember which way), replace the pads and pivot back up.

Gary

'05 330

Mkae sure you remove, clean and lube the caliper slide pins. My rear ones were frozen when I replaced original brakes at 73k. Also I like to steel wool the polished steel shims which allow the pad "ears" to slide freely. Don't forget to lube the anti-squeal shims. All these things make the new brakes work smoothly and quietly.

[mikey00]

Reading the post about premature pad and rotor wear caused me to wonder if anyone had done their own brake rotor and/or pad changes? I know on my Acura and my son's Honda, pad change is so simple a cave man can do it! Loosed the one caliper retaining bolt, pivot the rotor up (down? sorry can't remember which way), replace the pads and pivot back up.

Gary

'05 330

That's basically it. But you do have to move the shims from the old to the new. You also need to remove some brake fluid and compress the piston back into the caliper or you will never be able swing the caliper back down after putting in the new pads. You should also use brake grease on the shims (comes in nice tear open and through away packets). Caliper pins should also be cleaned and lubed and the rubber boots checked. One other nice to know thing. If you are using Lexus factory pads, the front ones come without wear indicators. These are small spring clips that are easily transferred from the old pads. This is true for the 300 and is most likely the same for 330. Some of the aftermarket front pads have the wear indicators as a permanent part of the metal pad frame as does the Lexus factory rear pads.

Here is a link to a how to that describes the process a little better:

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread...1695#post551695

[Grumpa72]

That's basically it. But you do have to move the shims from the old to the new. You also need to remove some brake fluid and compress the piston back into the caliper or you will never be able swing the caliper back down after putting in the new pads. You should also use brake grease on the shims (comes in nice tear open and through away packets). Caliper pins should also be cleaned and lubed and the rubber boots checked. One other nice to know thing. If you are using Lexus factory pads, the front ones come without wear indicators. These are small spring clips that are easily transferred from the old pads. This is true for the 300 and is most likely the same for 330. Some of the aftermarket front pads have the wear indicators as a permanent part of the metal pad frame as does the Lexus factory rear pads.

Here is a link to a how to that describes the process a little better:

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread...1695#post551695

Thanks for the link and the techniques. I have been changing brakes, master cylinders, and other items like this for more than 20 years so what your words are confirming what I suspected. I should have prefaced my comments with requests to confirm anything UNUSUAL in changing out the brake pads. Btw, what are most of you using for replacement pads? Lexus or from the FLAP?

Gary

[mikey00]

That's basically it. But you do have to move the shims from the old to the new. You also need to remove some brake fluid and compress the piston back into the caliper or you will never be able swing the caliper back down after putting in the new pads. You should also use brake grease on the shims (comes in nice tear open and through away packets). Caliper pins should also be cleaned and lubed and the rubber boots checked. One other nice to know thing. If you are using Lexus factory pads, the front ones come without wear indicators. These are small spring clips that are easily transferred from the old pads. This is true for the 300 and is most likely the same for 330. Some of the aftermarket front pads have the wear indicators as a permanent part of the metal pad frame as does the Lexus factory rear pads.

Here is a link to a how to that describes the process a little better:

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread...1695#post551695

Thanks for the link and the techniques. I have been changing brakes, master cylinders, and other items like this for more than 20 years so what your words are confirming what I suspected. I should have prefaced my comments with requests to confirm anything UNUSUAL in changing out the brake pads. Btw, what are most of you using for replacement pads? Lexus or from the FLAP?

Gary

I was very pleased with the original pads which lasted over 70K, had good stopping power, no squeel, wore evenly front to rear and had very little dusting on the wheels. So when it was time to change I ordered Lexus pads from Irontoad. The price was right and they came in 2 days. I do remember seeing posts in the past from others who ordered aftermarket pads from Rock auto and were very pleased. You may be able to save a few bucks if you go aftermarket.

[lenore]

That's basically it. But you do have to move the shims from the old to the new. You also need to remove some brake fluid and compress the piston back into the caliper or you will never be able swing the caliper back down after putting in the new pads. You should also use brake grease on the shims (comes in nice tear open and through away packets). Caliper pins should also be cleaned and lubed and the rubber boots checked. One other nice to know thing. If you are using Lexus factory pads, the front ones come without wear indicators. These are small spring clips that are easily transferred from the old pads. This is true for the 300 and is most likely the same for 330. Some of the aftermarket front pads have the wear indicators as a permanent part of the metal pad frame as does the Lexus factory rear pads.

Here is a link to a how to that describes the process a little better:

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread...1695#post551695

Thanks for the link and the techniques. I have been changing brakes, master cylinders, and other items like this for more than 20 years so what your words are confirming what I suspected. I should have prefaced my comments with requests to confirm anything UNUSUAL in changing out the brake pads. Btw, what are most of you using for replacement pads? Lexus or from the FLAP?

Gary

I tried some aftermarket ones for about two days, big mistake the originals lasted 75k miles, so I bought a set and replaced my new aftermarket pads... Ps I usually buy aftermarket, but the Lexus pad is awlsome, My next pad was akebono ceramics and brembo disks at 110k miles. they are wonderful....

[Ericok]

I switched to Carbon Ceramic pads front and rear and the stopping power is almost scary. Much, much better than stock.

[cliffy]

Haven't had to change them on my wifes RX.... but did them on my GS... simple.... I used some after market and do not like them.... going back to stock this spring to go with new cross drilled rotors I piced up on ebay... some good posts here regarding them... just drilled not slotted

[Grumpa72]

Haven't had to change them on my wifes RX.... but did them on my GS... simple.... I used some after market and do not like them.... going back to stock this spring to go with new cross drilled rotors I piced up on ebay... some good posts here regarding them... just drilled not slotted

While I understand what cross drilled and slotted rotors do for high performance cars, I am curious what benefit there might be to either type of rotor in a sedate car, typically driven easily, such as ours. I am not challenging you; I just want to know the reason for them? Fwiw, my 14 year old Acura Legend with 116000 still has the original calipers without any warping, pulsing, or appreciable wear. I only use the OEM equivalent pads so they wear instead of the rotors. My son's Civic went 130000 miles on his rotors and only replaced them because he was a teenager and wanted "cool".

[mikey00]

A quote from Car Bibles about brake rotors:

"An important note about drilled rotors: Drilled rotors are typically only found (and to be used on) race cars. The drilling weakens the rotors and typically results in microfractures to the rotor. On race cars this isn't a problem - the brakes are changed after each race or weekend. But on a road car, this can eventually lead to brake rotor failure - not what you want. I only mention this because of a lot of performance suppliers will supply you with drilled rotors for street cars without mentioning this little fact. "

[dcfish]

A quote from Car Bibles about brake rotors:

"An important note about drilled rotors: Drilled rotors are typically only found (and to be used on) race cars. The drilling weakens the rotors and typically results in microfractures to the rotor. On race cars this isn't a problem - the brakes are changed after each race or weekend. But on a road car, this can eventually lead to brake rotor failure - not what you want. I only mention this because of a lot of performance suppliers will supply you with drilled rotors for street cars without mentioning this little fact. "

Use blank stock rotors and pads. There is no way that one could drive on public roads to maximize the effect of d and or s rotors. The law would be on your a$$ so fast. Blanks are the best for everyday drivers. Less chance of cracking/warping and they last longer. Do what you want, It's your car. This is my opinion.

[TunedRX300]

A quote from Car Bibles about brake rotors:

"An important note about drilled rotors: Drilled rotors are typically only found (and to be used on) race cars. The drilling weakens the rotors and typically results in microfractures to the rotor. On race cars this isn't a problem - the brakes are changed after each race or weekend. But on a road car, this can eventually lead to brake rotor failure - not what you want. I only mention this because of a lot of performance suppliers will supply you with drilled rotors for street cars without mentioning this little fact. "

Depends on the design. Quality design such as casted holes are not as suspectible to cracking because there is no additional stress introduced to the rotor. Holes are casted with the rotor and not drilled afterward.

In fact, many MB cars came with cross-drilled rotors as factory design. They are luxury street cars and not really target the same drivers such as Porche or Farrari.

The key is quality and design. I understand it is easy to say "A is bad, B is good" but the answer from that link is kind of a stereo type answer w/o doing thourough research.

Of course, whether one prefer blank or slotted or cross-drilled is his/her own business. Not trying to convince anyone, but to provide some fact.

Attached is a MB C class picture, cross drilled rotor from the factory, remember if these rotors crack, MB is on the hook to provide warranty replacement.

[TunedRX300]

A quote from Car Bibles about brake rotors:

"An important note about drilled rotors: Drilled rotors are typically only found (and to be used on) race cars. The drilling weakens the rotors and typically results in microfractures to the rotor. On race cars this isn't a problem - the brakes are changed after each race or weekend. But on a road car, this can eventually lead to brake rotor failure - not what you want. I only mention this because of a lot of performance suppliers will supply you with drilled rotors for street cars without mentioning this little fact. "

Use blank stock rotors and pads. There is no way that one could drive on public roads to maximize the effect of d and or s rotors. The law would be on your a$$ so fast. Blanks are the best for everyday drivers. Less chance of cracking/warping and they last longer. Do what you want, It's your car. This is my opinion.

Brake stops the car. Why would a cop stop you if you stop better than other cars, especially after driving stop and go in a hilly area during a hot summer day?

[TunedRX300]

That's basically it. But you do have to move the shims from the old to the new. You also need to remove some brake fluid and compress the piston back into the caliper or you will never be able swing the caliper back down after putting in the new pads. You should also use brake grease on the shims (comes in nice tear open and through away packets). Caliper pins should also be cleaned and lubed and the rubber boots checked. One other nice to know thing. If you are using Lexus factory pads, the front ones come without wear indicators. These are small spring clips that are easily transferred from the old pads. This is true for the 300 and is most likely the same for 330. Some of the aftermarket front pads have the wear indicators as a permanent part of the metal pad frame as does the Lexus factory rear pads.

Here is a link to a how to that describes the process a little better:

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread...1695#post551695

Thanks for the link and the techniques. I have been changing brakes, master cylinders, and other items like this for more than 20 years so what your words are confirming what I suspected. I should have prefaced my comments with requests to confirm anything UNUSUAL in changing out the brake pads. Btw, what are most of you using for replacement pads? Lexus or from the FLAP?

Gary

I tried some aftermarket ones for about two days, big mistake the originals lasted 75k miles, so I bought a set and replaced my new aftermarket pads... Ps I usually buy aftermarket, but the Lexus pad is awlsome, My next pad was akebono ceramics and brembo disks at 110k miles. they are wonderful....

FYI, Akebono is the OEM brake supplier for Toyota. So there is no quality difference, just slight design difference.

I am sure everyone is aware that bleeding the brake fluid after servicing is a good practice. If one has not changed brake fluid, it is a good time to flush the old and replace with fresh fluid. Safety first!

[dcfish]

A quote from Car Bibles about brake rotors:

"An important note about drilled rotors: Drilled rotors are typically only found (and to be used on) race cars. The drilling weakens the rotors and typically results in microfractures to the rotor. On race cars this isn't a problem - the brakes are changed after each race or weekend. But on a road car, this can eventually lead to brake rotor failure - not what you want. I only mention this because of a lot of performance suppliers will supply you with drilled rotors for street cars without mentioning this little fact. "

Use blank stock rotors and pads. There is no way that one could drive on public roads to maximize the effect of d and or s rotors. The law would be on your a$$ so fast. Blanks are the best for everyday drivers. Less chance of cracking/warping and they last longer. Do what you want, It's your car. This is my opinion.

Brake stops the car. Why would a cop stop you if you stop better than other cars, especially after driving stop and go in a hilly area during a hot summer day?

The message I was conveying is if you drove your car on public roads with rotors intended for racing/hard constant braking from top speeds and heating the rotors to max temps the police would be on your a$$. That's all.

[cliffy]

There are posts going back and forth on this issue.... Mercedes puts cross drilled front rotors on thier S500's as a standard feature.... not that much more expensive... why not give it a shot?

[TunedRX300]

Haven't had to change them on my wifes RX.... but did them on my GS... simple.... I used some after market and do not like them.... going back to stock this spring to go with new cross drilled rotors I piced up on ebay... some good posts here regarding them... just drilled not slotted

While I understand what cross drilled and slotted rotors do for high performance cars, I am curious what benefit there might be to either type of rotor in a sedate car, typically driven easily, such as ours. I am not challenging you; I just want to know the reason for them? Fwiw, my 14 year old Acura Legend with 116000 still has the original calipers without any warping, pulsing, or appreciable wear. I only use the OEM equivalent pads so they wear instead of the rotors. My son's Civic went 130000 miles on his rotors and only replaced them because he was a teenager and wanted "cool".

Main benefits are heat dissipation, less unsprung weight, and more bite across the entire temperature range. You will probably notice the last benefit if you use cold braking capability in your driving. Cold braking is the best a brake can perform: at cold and never heated up. Cold braking is dominant design assumption for most passenger cars because automakers have one thing in mind: it is cheaper to make and most owners care less (well, until something happened). Warping takes place when brake rotor is super-heated beyond its cooling capability. The fact that warping takes place in passenger cars means automakers' assumption does not hold true 100% of the time.

Brake rotor is a heat sink, kinetic energy of a moving car must be transfered into heat to make a car stop. Holes in a cross drilled rotor allow more surface for rotor to be air cooled. Vented rotor design in RX's front end have vanes to double the rotor-to-air area over that of a solid rotor design. Cross-drilling and slotting use the same principle as the vented rotor. Today, no sedan car uses solid front rotor design anymore, reason? Every street car needs better cooling capability, not just performance cars. Kinetic Energy = 1/2 * mass * velocity^2. It is not just sport cars needs better cooling capability, heavier car such as SUV needs better cooling capability. It is simple: doubling the mass, kinetic energy is doubled, which demands brake to have better cooling capacity.

Given the same application, RX in this case, rotor with holes has less mass. Rotor with less metal has one drawback and two benefits. Drawback is rotor has less mass to absorb energy. However, having better cooling capability means it does not need the additional mass to store heat - energy will be transferred to the air before being stored. More holes means less unsprung weight, which helps acceleration and of course, less weight always helps mpg.

Run your finger across a rotor's friction surface will tell much bite the pad will experience with each compression of pistons in brake calipers. One important parameter to determine braking efficiency of the pad is friction coefficient. It is the same concept with rotor, holes have edges to introduce a rougher surface for brake pads to rub against at ALL temperature. In addition, at extreme high temperature, pad material can turn into gas, which can be trapped between pad/rotor and have a glazing effect to hinder brake performance. Holes will allow gas to escape.

Last, I will let you decide whether cold braking is what you use 100% of the time. Would you ever driving a SUV in stop and go traffic at a hilly area during hot summer day? Does Lexus' design assumption holds true for you? If Toyota designs a brake sufficient for Camry, is it sufficient for the heavier RX?

[mikey00]

I am not doubting the advantage of cross drilled and slotted for high performance use. But I still don't see a benefit for a RX used in normal everyday use. I am approaching 120K on my original rotors with my second set of Lexus pads. The rotors have never been turned and show absolutley no signs of warping. The brakes have always performed well and I have never experienced any brake fade or overheating. Even the drive down Pikes Peak has no negative effect. My stopping distance has always been limited by the tire/road surface contact, not the brake performance. You also have to factor in the ABS system if it's not disabled on your RX. Even if I could install some system to double my braking power at each wheel my stopping distance will still remain the same due to the same tire/road surface limitation.

I suppose I could take my RX out on the highway with one foot on the brake and one on the gas and at some time would reach a point where my brakes would become less effective. At this point I would expect the higher performance braking system to be an advantage. Even with agressive driving I don't expect to reach that point.

[wwest]

Rain....Wet.....

Those are the ONLY major advantages of street driven cars having drilled or slotted rotors. I choose slotted.

On the other hand lighter rotors, less unsprung weight, are a definite advantage insofar as driving comfort is concerned and you can get there by using HIGH(er) brake pressure, braking force overall, pads, etc, but then you MUST provide a means for the gas to escape via drilling/slots, etc.

You may notice that one (or more?) of the european marques is using the windshield wiper rain sensor to trigger a procedure, apply slight braking pressure, to keep your brakes dry in the wet. Good idea.

Now if someone could just figure a way to constantly compute/sense the coefficient of friction at the tire/roadbed interface without the use of brake force....