Ls Navigation -- Call For A Class Action?

SW03ES · December 28, 2007

Are you sure that there isn't some route preference set up in there? It doesn't make sense you'd have all those issues with the LS but not the GX, its basically the same system...

needone · December 31, 2007

I have taken a few months vacation from this site with the full understanding that the sanctimonious support of the Lexus "perfection" would continue. I see it has. I now have 14K mi on the 460L and while it's OK, it's no 430. The trunk still won't close with the remote or the dash button, but wording on the hype for the 600h implies that it will close with eitherif I just put in another $40 or$50K.

The nav package is still as aggrevating as ever, but I do have a solution!!!!!! I bought a Tomtom 920 and it doesn't know how dangerous it has made us. My wife can use it as I drive and we can do phone calls, POI searches and everything. Of course we are risking our lives by her not helping me drive.

Next I will have to run into SAMs and get one of those rear cameras that I will connect to the directionals so that I can see my blind spot when I signal for turns or lane changes. Then I can hire a Lexus geek to give me a remote start like every other car has available. What to you want for $80 grand, perfection?

'

RFeldes · December 31, 2007

As far as the trunk issue, have you checked for the lockout in the glove box? As to Nav...you can add or change addresses and routes via the voice at anytime while in motion. Are you guys reading the manuals? My Dealer offers classes once a month with wine, beer and sandwiches on the Nav. Which I will take to clarify some of the miscues I see here. Geez..take the manual to the toilet. Where I learned how to cook.. :whistles: Check into it. We are short on patience these days and that car seems to be smarter than some of us. No more agreeing to the Lawyer on start up, rear shade goes back up at 15mph, override all commands or routes or call a number by name or oral numbers at anytime via voice. What do you guys want? If you made enough dough to buy one you should be savy enough to operate a vehicle that may or may not match your IQ.

RFeldes · December 31, 2007

:chairshot:

needone · December 31, 2007

Smart enough to not learn to cook sitting on the john or double post. You're taking the wrong classes.

SW03ES · January 3, 2008

needone, you're welcome to be a member here whatever your opinions are but we won't have you starting flamewars or inciting arguments.

blkls · January 3, 2008

I have to agree with needone...

For a car that I looked so forward to buying when it came out, the LS460 has been a major disappointment as well.

I can empathize with needone that when participants in this forum voice their concerns, "Lexus die hards" assume the problem is with the operator and not the car. I know the manual from cover to cover. THE CAR IS THE PROBLEM--and stop assuming it is operator error please!

I have never owned a car with as many recalls and problems as this car. I have been through all the TSB's: transmission reprogrammed, the mirror noise fixed, side glass replaced, brake pad replacement/repair, etc. If I wanted to have this many trips to the dealer I would have bought another Audi A8L. And don't get me started on the LS transmission--the worst transmission I have ever owned !

As powerful as the navigation system is, I too have found it nearly useless when I need it most--finding my way when lost. Pushing the voice command button repeatedly for entering a simple destination or phone number is useless and overly complicated.

I think the bottom line is that Lexus over-engineered "safety features" into the car that makes it much less pleasurable to drive and LESS safe. I do not see myself buying another Lexus.

Grumbles2 · January 4, 2008

I also find the Lexus lockout very irritating. A Lexus employee recently told me that there is a series of buttons that can be pushed in a specific order on the LS430 (what I used to own) that would eliminate the lockout. I was thrilled to hear this; the employee promised to whisper to me what buttons to push on the LS 460 to eliminate the lockout. I called him today and he said he still can't figure this out.
I also asked him to discuss with the service department whether, if I eliminate the lockout, I will invalidate my service warranty. I was told no problem, the service warranty will still be in effect. The service department was probably laughing and thinking good luck lady figuring out how to eliminate the lockout.

I also talked to a local stereo installation shop owner today and he said he has been trying to figure out how to eliminate the lockout. He said there is a switch that if you push/pull it the lockout is eliminated. But then the LS460 thinks the car is not on so the GPS and phones don't work anyway.

I'd like to suggest that everyone who finds this lockout irritating talk to all the mechanics and stereo installation shops in their area and hopefully someone will be able to figure this out. I think I'll call my stereo guy back and offer him $1,000 reward to figure this out!!!!!

The bypass was never intended for public use, it was a diagnostic back door to test the system. Someone leaked it out and the back door was locked. Sorry every one but our ambulance chasing society is out of control and restrictions on everything are going to get worse. I dont like the lock outs but like the manager SW03ES said and I agree with, a petition or class action is not going to make it change.

SW03ES · January 4, 2008

Thats why I never buy first year runs of a car, Lexus or not.

jeffsstuff · January 11, 2008

Honestly...you do get used to it.

Sorry, but i've had my piece of crap (I mean Lexus) for six months now and I still hate it!

Had I know about this before I bought it, I never would have purchased this vehicle.

I currently have a bumper sticker on my car that reads:

I'll NEVER buy another Lexus

LexusIsNotMyMother.com

The bumper sticker is especially popular when I drive by my local Lexus dealer's showroom (less than 5 miles from my home). Once, a new Lexus, obviously out on a test drive, pulled up behind me at a traffic light. The driver pointed at the sticker. It was amazing how fast they got off at the next intersection. I would have loved to hear what the salesman said to defuse that!

The bottom line is, I am ultimately responsible for the safe operation of my car, not Lexus.

I contacted them about a rebate and they sent me a $500 service credit. I recently sent it back, citing the full refund received my Mr. Bates and was basically told to go to hell. I guess my next step will be to contact in writing, everyone I can think of who might help pressure Lexus to help me. This list includes:

Consumer Reports

J D Power

Car Magazines

Consumer groups

Stock Analysts who track automotive stocks

Legal action is an option but I'll save that for a last resort.

If anyone has any suggestions for other people to contact, I'd be very appreciative.

jeffsstuff · January 11, 2008

...I dont like the lock outs but like the manager SW03ES said and I agree with, a petition or class action is not going to make it change.

Perhaps not but if they lose enough sales to their competitors they will be forced to reconsider. I personally have told dozens of people who were thinking about Lexus and in the end, they bought other vehicles. Audi doesn't do this (When I told the local Audi dealer, he was quite excited to be able to use this as a sales tool). BMW doesn't do this. To the best of my knowledge, most other vehicles don't either. I make my feelings known with my wallet. I simply won't buy from Lexus / Toyota again. They lost me and dozens of others because of this one sale (and more importantly, the way they treated me when I complained).

jeffsstuff · January 11, 2008

...As to Nav...you can add or change addresses and routes via the voice at anytime while in motion. Are you guys reading the manuals?

Sorry, but I use voice recognition every day (I am using it to type this as a matter of fact). Still, the voice recognition in my Lexus is just about unusable. It only understands one way of doing something. In other words, I have to say "volume up" and not "turn up the volume" or "raise the volume".

Between the inaccuracy of the system and having to memorize the commands, it is useless to me.

SW03ES · January 12, 2008

Perhaps not but if they lose enough sales to their competitors they will be forced to reconsider.

But their competitors lock out the nav system also! Not all of them, but most.

German carmakers don't, and Acura/Honda. Thats it. Infiniti, Cadillac, Nissan, Lincoln, Chevrolet, Buick (all GM) all lockout the system the same way.

I'm sorry you've been unable to adapt to your system. But thats an issue with you.

A bumper sticker? How childish.

RFeldes · January 12, 2008

Ditto Steve...jeff your posts are getting boring. In life we accept or reject. Obviously, give up the 350/bumper sticker and move on. A better man for it. I, for one, wish you the best and keep fighting for what you believe in. :cheers:

jeffsstuff · January 12, 2008

Ditto Steve...jeff your posts are getting boring. In life we accept or reject. Obviously, give up the 350/bumper sticker and move on. A better man for it. I, for one, wish you the best and keep fighting for what you believe in.

First, I was mislead by the salesman (as were many). Many were not told of the issue until after the sale like myself. Others were outright lied to (told that an override existed when in fact it had been removed).

As to the bumper sticker, it is not childish. Here is why. Everytime someone sees it and takes the time to visit the website, they learn something. They might not care about this issue. If once they read about it, they still chose to buy the car, then they are at least doing so with all the facts. However, consider that over half of the people on that site would not have purchased the car had they known about the issue (like myself), it may well cause people to chose a different vehicle.

I am not going to get rid of a car that is six months old. I would lose too much money on the deal. This issue will however cost Lexus much more than they made on the sale. I've already cost them that much just by virtue of the people I talked out of buying cars because of this issue and more importantly, the heavy-handed way they have treated us. Customers were lied to and the company's only response is to, in essence say, "too bad".

If I am boring you, please don't read my posts anymore. In the coming months, I will be even more vocal (just in more visible places than this). I have had issues with companies behaving badly in the past. With some persistence, I have prevailed every single time. This time will be no exception. Many people would just "except" as you put it. They would give up and give in. I am not like that. I feel that I am right and they are wrong. I will not give up until I am either compensated for the cost of the system or given a patch to remove the restriction.

As Mr. Bates has already received a full rebate, the precedent is already set. If I have to, I will make this a legal issue. I'd rather avoid that but I'd rather make money for some lawyer then give in.

That is my final word on the issue (at least here)

SW03ES · January 12, 2008

As for it being a legal issue. Since they're not the only manufacturer that does it, Lexus as a company does not employ the salespeople or own the dealership, and they've manufactured a navigation system for 10 years with the identical lockout and have never manufactured or claimed to manufacture a navigation system without such a lockout, I don't see how you'd possibly have a case.

That doesn't mean a lawyer won't take it...which is why they have to have a lockout in the first place.

I sincerely hope it is your last word on the issue here. It really is getting old. Spread your venom somewhere else.

merdos · January 12, 2008

I agree the lockout is overkill.

I would like to have the option of no lockout (and sign a waiver if needed). It's about as annoying as having to hit the "I Agree" button every time I turn on the care. I figure after about a year of this, the car should get the point - I AGREE.

However, with all of that said I am very happy with my decision to purchase the car.

It is truely an exceptional automobile (other than the paint - see my posting)

SW03ES · January 12, 2008

They did finally do away with the I AGREE screen in the 08.

blkls · January 17, 2008

Ditto Steve...jeff your posts are getting boring. In life we accept or reject. Obviously, give up the 350/bumper sticker and move on. A better man for it. I, for one, wish you the best and keep fighting for what you believe in.

First, I was mislead by the salesman (as were many). Many were not told of the issue until after the sale like myself. Others were outright lied to (told that an override existed when in fact it had been removed).

As to the bumper sticker, it is not childish. Here is why. Everytime someone sees it and takes the time to visit the website, they learn something. They might not care about this issue. If once they read about it, they still chose to buy the car, then they are at least doing so with all the facts. However, consider that over half of the people on that site would not have purchased the car had they known about the issue (like myself), it may well cause people to chose a different vehicle.

I am not going to get rid of a car that is six months old. I would lose too much money on the deal. This issue will however cost Lexus much more than they made on the sale. I've already cost them that much just by virtue of the people I talked out of buying cars because of this issue and more importantly, the heavy-handed way they have treated us. Customers were lied to and the company's only response is to, in essence say, "too bad".

If I am boring you, please don't read my posts anymore. In the coming months, I will be even more vocal (just in more visible places than this). I have had issues with companies behaving badly in the past. With some persistence, I have prevailed every single time. This time will be no exception. Many people would just "except" as you put it. They would give up and give in. I am not like that. I feel that I am right and they are wrong. I will not give up until I am either compensated for the cost of the system or given a patch to remove the restriction.

As Mr. Bates has already received a full rebate, the precedent is already set. If I have to, I will make this a legal issue. I'd rather avoid that but I'd rather make money for some lawyer then give in.

That is my final word on the issue (at least here)

I would like to be updated in how your complaint is proceeding. I have the same complaints with my LS460 and would like any information possible on how/if you get any satisfaction.

It seems to me that SWO3ES has a biased interest in Lexus? The LS has many problems and is far from the "perfection" the company implies. I think this is the perfect place for Lexus owners to voice their concerns/complaints and do not think it is appropriate for members to "shut down" the discussion. If SWO3ES does not feel there are any problems with this car, I think he ought to go drink some more KoolAid and let members have an open discussion.

SW03ES · January 17, 2008

Have an open discussion all you want, nobody's trying to stifle your discussion. My opinions however are as relevant and welcome as yours. I'm not the only one on my side either.

If I wanted to "shut down" this discussion I would have shut it down, as in physically locked it out so nobody could post. Or just deleted the whole thing. I have no interest in doing that.

I'm not saying that you aren't having problems with your car, I'm saying that the problems you're having aren't as serious as the issues owners of other marques have, and are issues that you would have noticed had you taken the time to thoroughly evaluate the car before you bought it. Saying you don't like how it rides? Did you even drive it before you paid $75,000 for it?!? The nav lockout? You mean the nav lockout that Lexus has had for a decade that many other manufaturers also have? Again, did you try the system before you bought it? A "ton" of recalls and TSBs? List them.

Perhaps you should have waited for an 08. I would have.

07LS460 · January 20, 2008

I've scanned this thread reading a number of complaints including a few from some saying it's the worst car they've ever owned yet they continue to drive it since they're not willing to take the depreciation hit. I've read and seen many rediculous things of late but think this is quite humorous. Nearly everyone of us can afford to do many things in life that most are unable to do and one is to be able to purchase vehicles that are in this category. If I had something that I totally hated, I would not even think twice about the money forfeited in rididng my self of the problem rather than having to wake up everyday and have to deal with it simply over several thousand dollars.

I dare any of you cry babies to show me a vehicle in a similar price range to the LS460 and I'll quickly find a group of whiners much like the ones on this thread that complain about every little thing. Life is short and for those that obviously don't realize that perfection will never be found in an automobile, will just continue to feel that need to share their unhappiness with all.

Zukiper · January 29, 2008

I'd like to start a discussion regarding the Lexus LS460 Navigation lock-out and what we, as a group, can do to persuade Lexus that we, the folks who both purchase and use these cars, should be the ones to determine when we use our navigation system and how.
Recently, on a trip in Florida, I needed to re-route around some traffic. I knew where I wanted to go (a POI I knew). My wife, in the passenger's seat, was perfectly able to use the navigation system, were it not for the fact that it was locked out while we were in motion. I had to pull into a parking lot to make the selection. The traffic was so bad that getting back in took over 10 minutes (Orlando, go figure). The navigation system that was supposed to save me time ended up being more hindrance than help.

This has become not only an annoyance, but a danger. Stopping on the highway, which is what some folks might do, or pulling off at an exit or on a side road just to choose another destination -- especially for the passenger to do the selection -- is both ludicrous and insulting.

I have more stories, but I'm sure you share most of them.

These features are "locked out" while the car is in motion, and I believe (as I think many of you may) that the use of these options should be our choice -- not the car maker's choice.

Choosing a different destination (POI, Address, Phone, etc.)

Choosing an album to play by selecting it directly, rather than having to page through them one-by-one

Dialing a phone number when using the telephone

Other features "locked out" during forward motion

What I want, and what I believe we all expect, is for Lexus to make these features available to us at no additional charge (haven't we already spent enough on our car purchase?) in the form of an updated software release for the car, a software "hack" or an after-market "modification" that is approved by Lexus. I don't want to tell them how to do it, I just want to persuade them to do it.

So, let's start the discussion. If you are willing to become part of the solution, please post.

Count me in

I am even willing to have our legal spend some time on this.

I think the use of the address book - is the bare minimum they need to allow

Also - if there is a passenger sitting by the driver - that person should be allowed to enter info and dial numbers

There are so many actions one can DO while driving...

radio

audio

climate

no less dangerous than dialing a number.

Grumbles2 · February 3, 2008

I've scanned this thread reading a number of complaints including a few from some saying it's the worst car they've ever owned yet they continue to drive it since they're not willing to take the depreciation hit. I've read and seen many rediculous things of late but think this is quite humorous. Nearly everyone of us can afford to do many things in life that most are unable to do and one is to be able to purchase vehicles that are in this category. If I had something that I totally hated, I would not even think twice about the money forfeited in rididng my self of the problem rather than having to wake up everyday and have to deal with it simply over several thousand dollars.
I dare any of you cry babies to show me a vehicle in a similar price range to the LS460 and I'll quickly find a group of whiners much like the ones on this thread that complain about every little thing. Life is short and for those that obviously don't realize that perfection will never be found in an automobile, will just continue to feel that need to share their unhappiness with all.

Standing ovation for you sir! Talk about hitting the nail on the head.

tnisbum7 · February 29, 2008

Just bought a used 07 LS460L, love the car, hate the non-functional NAV. My wife drives a 05 Acura RL and the Lexus is frustrating in comparison. Add my name to the list and I appreciate the forum and the exchange of ideas. Hey, I ride motorcycles and I support the no helmet laws, but that does not mean I ride without one. With some of the money I saved buying used, I'll invest in one of the aftermarket solutions to this "cover your !Removed!" annoyance.

mel s · June 27, 2008

That's an interesting point LexusTech117 raises; but rather than make rogue alterations to a system I know technically nothing about, I think it might make sense for us to group together and send Lexus an open letter requesting that they make these features available to those who want them. I'll bet Lexus has received many letters from disappointed folks.
I believe Lexus wants to pursue perfection as much as they do customer satisfaction. If I get 50 or more posts to this subject (50 individuals), I'll be happy to post a letter and provide a way for folks to "digitally sign" the letter.

For the everyday person who buys an LS (or an ES; or any other Lexus for that matter) and wants to use the functions I've mentioned in this section, there's no reason they should resort to hacks, cutting wires or any other third-party work being performed on their cars. Lexus should get in front of this now, before this request becomes something much more formal.

I believe Lexus should allow "unlocking" these features; and if they need to, for their own protection, have the owner sign a waiver, then so be it.

Who else agrees?

I agree 100%. I would be willing to sign a waiver so that these features could be unlocked. Also, note that speach recognition software allows for you to "TEACH" your software to recognize your individuality, I can not for the life of me get the thing to recognize what I am saying