600hl

[Hank Brandenburg]

Anybody hearing news on the 600? Last I heard was "spring 2007 as a 2008 model".

Any info, even rumor, would be appreciated.

[Helmar]

I put down a deposit on a 600hL last August.

The dealer called me yesterday and said that I was 1st on the list. He expected delivery sometime in June. He had no other details about what colors or options would be available, but did say that pricing would start in the low $90's.

HBH

[Rx330driver]

there have been really mixed signals comign from lexus. Ive actually heard the car will start at $110,000.

one thing we know for sure is the horsepower. the ads are starting to appear on TV. 438hp

[Hank Brandenburg]

Thanks - I also have a deposit in, but as of Monday my dealer did not have any info to provide.

[Rx330driver]

pricing was released today. base price at $104,000

[SW03ES]

Wow, more than I thought...

[GOLDPLATER]

Wow, more than I thought...

Me too! About $10K too much in my opinion. I was holding off deciding on the 460L, 600HL, or S550. The 460L is now making more sense dollar wise. If "I" was going to shell out $100K for a car, the S550 would have to get the nod over the 600HL based on the fact the S550 does not share it's design with a lesser priced model. Only the true Lexus knowledgeable and auto-savy person would recognize the price & difference between the 460L and the 600HL. Had the 600HL come in @$90K or a bit more, I would have given it the nod. I still have my sights on the 460L but the S550 just took second place in my ranking unless someone can make a convincing argument to dissuade me.

John

[SW03ES]

But equipment wise you'd have to price an S class out to 130k to make it truly comparable to the 600hL.

[jainla]

Me too! About $10K too much in my opinion. I was holding off deciding on the 460L, 600HL, or S550. The 460L is now making more sense dollar wise. If "I" was going to shell out $100K for a car, the S550 would have to get the nod over the 600HL based on the fact the S550 does not share it's design with a lesser priced model.

Well technically it does only the S450 and S350 are not sold here. :)

Only the true Lexus knowledgeable and auto-savy person would recognize the price & difference between the 460L and the 600HL.

The same could be said about the S550 and S600.

Had the 600HL come in @$90K or a bit more, I would have given it the nod. I still have my sights on the 460L but the S550 just took second place in my ranking unless someone can make a convincing argument to dissuade me.

The 600h is intended to compete against the S600 and 760Li; not the S550. It will have more premium appointments (leather dash; extra wood here and there) which on an S550 require the designo package; which adds another $10k or so. Having a car that's $20-30k less than either topline german competitors is a compelling proposition for some people. Also the 600h has standard Nav, ML and a couple other things that you have to pay extra for on the 460 that narrows the price gap a bit. With comparably equipped LS460L models hitting about $80k, $104k means about a 24k premium for the hybrid model (which also includes AWD). Not cheap but the S600 starts at $140k which is almost 40k more than a regular S550.

That said I think many buyers are going compare the S550 and the 600h anyway because of price; and the 600h is (probably) faster; more efficient; and has AWD standard in addition to several other features not available on the S class; however it's not a Benz or a Bimmer and for some people that matters a great deal at that price point. I wonder if part of the strategy of MB importing only the S550 was to price the S-class away from the LS models to discourage direct comparison.

The prevailing thinking among many people I know who buy these cars is that the S600/760Li are purely an image decision; for most people in everyday driving the additional power is academic; and the additional cachet is not worth the huge price premium they command over the S550/750Li; there is also no additional space; etc etc. The 600h compares well in price and power to the 760Li and Audi A8 W12; however the S600 (at least on paper) enjoys a substantial power advantage. Until we see the performance numbers we won't know how much of a real-world advantage those additional 90hp represent.

I'm very curious to drive the LS hybrid; I suspect Lexus is underrating the total system HP quite a bit. On it's own a 5.0L version of the 4.6L V8 could probably be expected to make about 420hp; and the 2 electric motors only adds another 18hp? Come on..the GS with it's smaller motors claims more of a boost than that.

The GS450 has a very unique feel that I quite like; however the tiny trunk and huge weight gain make it feel less responsive than a GS350 or 430. Perhaps the LS with its less sporty pretentions and greater overall starting weight will drive better?

[RFeldes]

This will all work out in the end..I'm sure. The current 460l sits in the showroom, loaded, at $98k. I know, I was shocked in the showroom. Compare that to a S550 with minimum plus a few extras, though no less statured 550 at 89k. Much classier auto and surely enjoys a higher stature and much more sophisticated interior. The glove soft leather on the lexus seems to wear faster than the 400 series, the leather on the 550 is of a much higher quality, the ML stereo blows out the Bass in three years. I know, cause I have a 430. I have been a dedicated Lexus owner for years but see that they cannot compete with the 550 to date nor should they have tried without doing their homework. Go sit and drive a 550 and do the same with a 460. Keep in mind the 550 is a larger vehicle than the standard 460 and the 460l is comparable but becomes pricey when put side to side. As mentioned on the earlier threads Lexus "locks" you out of many features whereas Mercedes allows the owner to command "all" functions. Take for example the rear shade, take for example the GPS that has azimuth control so your passenger can change the destination without the driver being involved nor within eyesight while in motion. What about every time you start a Lexus you have to accept the Nav safety. How about your door locks being set to open all doors upon going into park whereas the Lexus has to be brought in to Lexus to adapt. Lots of little quirks that have ired me on the Lexus. My conclusion is that Lexus with its "look alike" design, and you all know what I am referring to, has lost an edge it was so adept at maintaining. Price wise, toss a nickel at the 460l and 550. I have a feeling the 600l will not launch well. As a hybrid has a rough shift between electric and gas and that may well be the reason for the late arrival. Just my opinion, having lived with both the 430 and s550. Really not interested in the 460 as it looks like an overgrown Camry. I'll keep my 430. Classier!!!!

[SW03ES]

I've sat in both of them, driven the S550. I absolutely would buy the LS460 over the S550. The S550 is a stunning car, but I just can't justify the added cost or the lesser reliability compared to the LS. The S550 has a nice interior, but I still don't like the weird steering wheel or the 7 series ripoff driver interface, I prefer the more ordinary layout of the LS. As for quality, I think both of them are of extremely high quality. My dad has an LS430 with 60k miles, and my ES has almost 90k and both our ML systems are still fully intact.

You still can't get around the fact that the S class ALWAYS costs $30-40k more than the LS equipped similarly. You could buy an LS460 AND a Porsche Boxster for what a similarly equipped S550 costs, thats just a lot of difference to make up. Sure the LS460L tops out at 98k, but thats with executive seating and EVERY option, you're at a $125,000 S550 to compete with that. At the 600hL you're at a $140,000 S600 to compete with it.

As for styling, styling is subjective and the S550 and LS460 have both grown on me. I've never been a fan of the LS430 though personally, the front of the 01-03 has always looked like a Volkswagen to me. The 04-06 is a huge improvement, but it still lacks the fluidity of the LS460. Anyways the LS460 has been selling extremely well, many dealers are still on wait lists which is unheard of for the LS, and many dealers are already sold out of their allotments of LS600hLs for the year. The 600hL is not supposed to be a volume car anyways.

[nc211]

Not that it matters to folks who can afford the 460 to begin with, as most probably pay cash at that level. But, you realize the $98k model equates to a $310,000 mortgage, assuming both notes are at 6.25%, one on a 5 year run, the other on a 30 year? One appreciates, one depreciates. One offers tax benefits, the other "under personal title" does not.

Where is that article about the reasons why you're not rich?

[SW03ES]

Actually most lease, in that pricerange nearly 85% of the vehicles are leased.

[jainla]

As for styling, styling is subjective and the S550 and LS460 have both grown on me.

Went to lunch on sunday in Santa Monica. There was a silver LS460L and a black S65 parked on in front of the other (I suspect they are dealer 'loaners' because I have seen the LS there before; it had a dealer's business card next to the registration sticker).

The more I see the new LS the more I like it. because of the bigger wheelbase and more glass area it looks like a much larger car than the LS430 does. It's sleek and interesting without trying too hard. The only downside is that Toyota/Lexus seems to have broken with many LS traditions; but they want to take the model in a new direction so some of that seems to be inevitable.

Many people stopped to look at the LS; not so many the Benz. The LS 460/600 is a much more attractive car in person than in most photographs; for my money the new S looks a little too 'riced out' with the fender flares and the huge front air dam.

[Hank Brandenburg]

Edmunds Review

[mehullica]

Had the extreme pleasure of driving a LS600h L yesterday. I was one of the lucky ones from each dealer that got to go to SoCal and drive one for a couple hours. It is worth every penny of the $109,000 base price. Unruly power, the AWD feels great. Turning in tight corners is easy also. After getting into a Ls460L the difference is really noticeable. The 600hL has so much more power and torque. Compared to any 12 cylinder Audi, Benz, or BMW, the LS600hL wins hands down. Way lower emissions than any of the others, way better MPG, More power (except for the Benz 600 twin-turbo). With the SULEV emission rating it's nearly 2 levels ahead of any competition, more hp and torque, quicker 50-70 mph acceleration, for way less $$. Great car.