02-06 Transmission hesitation problems

[drifter]

jragosta !! I love your reply! You have eloquently stated how Lexus is ignoring the problem and calling it "normal". It must be a corporate mantra to dealers to label something normal when they can't or won't bother admitting it's a problem that needs a fix. It's very clear in all the conversations I've had with the dealer and Lexus that once they label it "normal" that's the end of the discussion and they aren't listening any more. I'm real dissatisfied with the tranny hesitation for all the same reasons you mention and more. Turns out they are just like every other car dealer....the operative word here being deceptive.

PS My right rear window is frozen in the closed position (thankfully) for the 2nd time in as many months. I really dislike going to the dealer for anything now that I've received my free 5K service and gift. I insist they write up the tranny problem and the rattle every time I take the car in just to rub it in their face. Can you tell I'm bitter?

[Seegar]

It's amazing that this thread continues as long as it has with more and more people reporting the same problem with their new ES330's also. I very often wish there was some way to start a smear campaign against the ES3xx models to force Lexus to do something effective about it. This is only 1 of the 2 chronic problems I have with my 03 ES300.  I keep coming back here hoping Lexus has come up with an effective fix but it aint happening.

 

As I suggested above, file a complaint with NHTSA. If enough people do that, Lexus will be forced to fix the problem.

There's always the 'sue them' route, but I don't like getting lawyers involved unless absolutely necessary. You may feel differently.

I also have the same problem with my 2003 ES300. Has anyone tried the Lemon Law? I'm a Lexus fan, but this is hard to deal with. My life passes before me at least once a day as I push my foot down on a unresponsive pedal!!!!

[jragosta]

It's amazing that this thread continues as long as it has with more and more people reporting the same problem with their new ES330's also. I very often wish there was some way to start a smear campaign against the ES3xx models to force Lexus to do something effective about it. This is only 1 of the 2 chronic problems I have with my 03 ES300.  I keep coming back here hoping Lexus has come up with an effective fix but it aint happening.

 

As I suggested above, file a complaint with NHTSA. If enough people do that, Lexus will be forced to fix the problem.

There's always the 'sue them' route, but I don't like getting lawyers involved unless absolutely necessary. You may feel differently.

I also have the same problem with my 2003 ES300. Has anyone tried the Lemon Law? I'm a Lexus fan, but this is hard to deal with. My life passes before me at least once a day as I push my foot down on a unresponsive pedal!!!!

You could try Lemon Law, but my experience (at least in PA) was that this only got you any results if it was an incredibly obvious and terrible problem. I'm not sure that the transmission would cut it.

File with NHTSA. Instructions are posted a few messages above.

[blue]

I thought someone early on in this thread mentioned doing the lemon law for this in CA and having success.

[jragosta]

I thought someone early on in this thread mentioned doing the lemon law for this in CA and having success.

That could be true - I haven't checked.

California is notoriously pro-consumer and anti-business. If you live there, you have a better chance of having this resolved in your favor than anywhere else I know of.

[mlkester]

I too have experienced the tranny problem (accelleration hesitiation) on ES300. I took previous post advice of using NHTSA web site to register complaint. While they ask for a lot of detail, that is the only official way of registering this complaint. I noted, that while there are a large number of posts in this forum and others complaining about this problem, there are only less than 60 complaints (over 2 years) of this nature on the ES300 2003 model in the NHTSA database. I suggest that if you haven't already, is that you take the time to go to the web site and formally register your complaint there. Hopefully, the more voices that are heard, the more someone will sit up and take notice. If anyone has documented evidence of any injuries or accidents occurring because of this problem, that would be a much more powerful message to be heard at NHTSA. As far as I could tell browsing through the complaints, none have resulted in injury or crash which may be why there isn't much interest in resolving the problem or forcing toyota to resolve it.

[facethemusic]

I didn't know whether to write this post on this thread or start another. so here goes. My wife is really wanting the 2004 ES330. I've been reading about the tranny lag problems with the 02 and 03s. Can anyone tell me if Lexus fixed this problem on the 2004s?

[jragosta]

I didn't know whether to write this post on this thread or start another. so here goes. My wife is really wanting the 2004 ES330. I've been reading about the tranny lag problems with the 02 and 03s. Can anyone tell me if Lexus fixed this problem on the 2004s?

No, it's not fixed, but not everyone has a problem with the transmission. If your wife drives in such a way that the transmission doesn't bother her, I'd recommend the ES330 wholeheartedly. Therefore, I'd suggest that she arrange for an extended road test before deciding.

[mlkester]

No, it has not been fixed. My dealer here still say there is nothing to be done. However, if I had to buy the car again, I would - it is a wonderful riding and handling, good looking car and the while the tranny problem is there, it is not something that I worry about nor would it cause me not to buy a lexus again. - Hope that helps

[jragosta]

I got a call today from Lexus Customer Satisfaction:

Them: Lexus of Tulsa says that your car is working as designed.

Me: Do you believe the car was designed to have a full second lag when you step on the gas?

Them: No

Me: Do you believe the car was designed to have a hard clunk between third and fourth gear?

Them: No

Me: My car does both of those things. How can you say that the car is operating as designed?

Them: Not all Lexus owners have the problem.

Me: I don't care about other Lexus owners. My car has this problem.

Them: The car is operating as designed.

Me: So you're now saying that is WAS designed to clunk between gears and have a long lag when you step on the gas?

Them: No, I'm not saying that.

Me: Are you aware that there are over 100 complaints to NHTSA over the past 3 years for this problem?

Them: A few customers are not completely satisfied, but all of these cars are operating as designed.

And so on.

I can't understand how they keep up this scam. If they were simply to say that there is a problem and that some cars do not operate the way they want them to, but there's no safety issue and they'll get a fix as soon as they can, I wouldn't be happy, but I could live it with. But this insistence on insisting that the car operates as designed is ridiculous.

I told them to escalate it to a supervisor and I want them to replace it with an RX330. I understand that there are a few problems with the RX, but it's much rarer than the ES. We'll see what happens.

[priobe]

I got a call today from Lexus Customer Satisfaction:

Them: Lexus of Tulsa says that your car is working as designed.

Me: Do you believe the car was designed to have a full second lag when you step on the gas?

Them: No

Me: Do you believe the car was designed to have a hard clunk between third and fourth gear?

Them: No

Me: My car does both of those things. How can you say that the car is operating as designed?

Them: Not all Lexus owners have the problem.

Me: I don't care about other Lexus owners. My car has this problem.

Them: The car is operating as designed.

Me: So you're now saying that is WAS designed to clunk between gears and have a long lag when you step on the gas?

Them: No, I'm not saying that.

Me: Are you aware that there are over 100 complaints to NHTSA over the past 3 years for this problem?

Them: A few customers are not completely satisfied, but all of these cars are operating as designed.

And so on.

I can't understand how they keep up this scam. If they were simply to say that there is a problem and that some cars do not operate the way they want them to, but there's no safety issue and they'll get a fix as soon as they can, I wouldn't be happy, but I could live it with. But this insistence on insisting that the car operates as designed is ridiculous.

I told them to escalate it to a supervisor and I want them to replace it with an RX330. I understand that there are a few problems with the RX, but it's much rarer than the ES. We'll see what happens.

I agree with your fustration. I am still waiting to see if they will take me out of the ES to put me into the GS. I know that it is more expensive but I need to get out of this car. If you would like to get together and combine our case with others let me know.

phil

[facethemusic]

jragosta wrote:

"No, it's not fixed, but not everyone has a problem with the transmission. If your wife drives in such a way that the transmission doesn't bother her, I'd recommend the ES330 wholeheartedly. Therefore, I'd suggest that she arrange for an extended road test before deciding."

Thanks for the advice. Could you be more specific on what she should be doing during the test drive to see if that particular ES had any of the tranny problems?

For example, should she punch it at a particular speed or going uphill?

[amf1932]

Could you be more specific on what she should be doing during the test drive to see if that particular ES had any of the tranny problems?

Try this:

Test 1

1- Drive at a normal speed

2- Take your foot off the accelerator(as if you're in stop & go traffic)

3- When the car decelerates to about 2 mph or lower, press the accelerator normally(not flooring it), and see if the car goes into a lower gear immediately, or it hunts for a gear to go into and then lurches forward.

Test 2

1- Drive at approximately 40 mph.

2- Floor accelerator quickly(as if you need to pass another car in a hazardous situation in a hurry).

3- Check that the car goes into a lower gear immediately or there is a rise in engine rpm's while the car is figuring out what gear to go into. This is the hesitation that we're talking about.

This is another test where this car fails miserably.

There are ways to overcome these problems by driving in a certain manner, but in certain cases you don't have the time or wherewithal to concentrate on "nursing" this weird transmission shifting behavior.

[jragosta]

I agree with your fustration. I am still waiting to see if they will take me out of the ES to put me into the GS. I know that it is more expensive but I need to get out of this car. If you would like to get together and combine our case with others let me know.

phil

I'd be interested. I'd even take an RX, but a GS would be even better.

Last time, Lexus said we could talk about getting me into an RX, but they wanted me to pay the difference. I declined.

[jragosta]

I agree with your fustration. I am still waiting to see if they will take me out of the ES to put me into the GS. I know that it is more expensive but I need to get out of this car. If you would like to get together and combine our case with others let me know.

phil

I'd be interested. I'd even take an RX, but a GS would be even better.

I forgot to mention - you can reach me at <joe@ragosta.com>.

Thanks.

[jragosta]

Amazing. I got another call from Lexus to tell me my car is operating normally. I wonder if they really think that if they call me every two weeks to tell me my car is working normally that I will start to believe it.

The call went exactly as above. The guy danced between 'the car operates normally' and 'no, a clunk in the transmission isn't normal'. They're making me dizzy.

In any event, they gave me the name of the Lexus National Center for Dispute Resolution. I'll try them tomorrow, although I suspect a lawyer would make more progress.

[hpy2bme]

Could you be more specific on what she should be doing during the test drive to see if that particular ES had any of the tranny problems?

Try this:

Test 1

1- Drive at a normal speed

2- Take your foot off the accelerator(as if you're in stop & go traffic)

3- When the car decelerates to about 2 mph or lower, press the accelerator normally(not flooring it), and see if the car goes into a lower gear immediately, or it hunts for a gear to go into and then lurches forward.

Test 2

1- Drive at approximately 40 mph.

2- Floor accelerator quickly(as if you need to pass another car in a hazardous situation in a hurry).

3- Check that the car goes into a lower gear immediately or there is a rise in engine rpm's while the car is figuring out what gear to go into. This is the hesitation that we're talking about.

This is another test where this car fails miserably.

There are ways to overcome these problems by driving in a certain manner, but in certain cases you don't have the time or wherewithal to concentrate on "nursing" this weird transmission shifting behavior.

Wow - I just became aware of a "trannie" problem when i took my '03 ES300 in for reconditioning. I bought a 2003 loaner w/ 15K on it. This was the 1st i had heard about it and definitely felt overwhelmed and concerned after spending considerable $$$ on what i thought was a luxury car.

While being worked on, Lexus of Pleasanton loaned me a '04 with less than 2K on it and the difference was PHENOMINAL! Talk about smooth and luxurious!!! I couldn't get over how different the engine/transmission is. Effortless and silky smooth.

Maybe it's just my imagination, but the '03 seems rather 'immature' (rougher) compared to the newer '04.

I loved reading all 10 pages & knowing i'm not alone - thanks everyone for your imput!! :) specially the 2 tests posted.

IMHO better to be informed than to stay stubbornly ignorant.

[jragosta]

I filed for arbitration today. We'll see what happens.

One of the things I plan to do is bring in all the complaints to NHTSA to show that Lexus knows it's a problem. For the 2004 model year, 11 of the 36 complaints on the RX330 are from this same issue. 22 of the 29 complaints on the ES330 are the same problem. I haven't yet figured the percentages for previous years.

Clearly, the more people who document their complaints, the better the chance that Lexus will fix the problem. So, again, I would encourage everyone who experiences the problem to file a complaint at http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/.

I'll keep everyone posted.

[dickbeu]

This has all of the characteristics of a vacuum leak. I mentioned that to the service writer but he said the engine runs on electronics not vacuum. But I'll bet the computer is looking for manifold vacuum somewhere and because of the leak the computer is seeing what the vacuum actually is and not what it should be if no leak. Ford has a Rotunda machine that finds vacuum leaks. Wonder if it would work on a Lexus?

[hilchan]

Clearly, the more people who document their complaints, the better the chance that Lexus will fix the problem. So, again, I would encourage everyone who experiences the problem to file a complaint at http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/.

Took my ES330 on a long drive and almost got into at least 2 would be fatal accident because of this delay.

So I finally filed a complaint today at NHTSA knowing that Lexus will not do anything else.

[joe ml]

Unfortunately, I am having the same ES300 problem. I m filing an NHTSA complaint as well and one with Lexus.

Oddly, I received a letter in the mail about a unique Lexus voluntary vehicle swap program at my dealer where I could get into a new vehicle without penalty and a larger vehicle at the same price. Do you think this has anything to do with this problem?

Considerring they sell more units of the ES300/330 than any other, I'm sure the loyalty stats might be at risk. Maybe they recognize this and will try to preserve this on a larger than "case-by-case" basis but smaller than a global admittion.

Joe

(ps: in my humble opinion, this annoying, but managble engine problem is not worth the trouble of a class action. statistically speaking, you either be out of your lease or into a newly owned car before there is a settlement.)

[jragosta]

Unfortunately, I am having the same ES300 problem. I m filing an NHTSA complaint as well and one with Lexus.

Oddly, I received a letter in the mail about a unique Lexus voluntary vehicle swap program at my dealer where I could get into a new vehicle without penalty and a larger vehicle at the same price. Do you think this has anything to do with this problem?

Considerring they sell more units of the ES300/330 than any other, I'm sure the loyalty stats might be at risk. Maybe they recognize this and will try to preserve this on a larger than "case-by-case" basis but smaller than a global admittion.

Joe

(ps: in my humble opinion, this annoying, but managble engine problem is not worth the trouble of a class action. statistically speaking, you either be out of your lease or into a newly owned car before there is a settlement.)

They offered to put me into a different vehicle - but wanted me to pay the difference. I told them that if they put me into a GS at no charge to me, I'd go away happy.

The problem is that I have a strict budget at work. I can't spend any more than I already spent - or it all comes out of my pocket.

[steviej]

jragosta and joe ml,

are you both leasing. I purchased and have gotten no such swap option letter.

I filed with NTHSA and Lexus a long while ago.

I have just come accustomed to driving without the hesitation, but that has been covered before.

steviej

[jragosta]

jragosta and joe ml,

are you both leasing. I purchased and have gotten no such swap option letter.

I filed with NTHSA and Lexus a long while ago.

I have just come accustomed to driving without the hesitation, but that has been covered before.

steviej

We purchased outright - no lease involved.

And I never got a letter, either - just a phone call offering to allow me to trade my car in on a more expensive vehicle.

[WALTER BANKSTON]

Add me to your list of complaints. My husband and I have bought our 3rd Lexus and now own a ES330, which we now have 1500 miles on. We have taken this beautiful car back to the dealer three times for transmission problems described in posts on this board. I also have described to my husband that I feel like a deer in the headlight of on-coming cars and experience the same shifting problems. Fremont Magnussen's Lexus (Calif.)has had our 330 for four days now, as their top mechanic is taking it home with him in an attempt to experience our complaints of hesitation and shifting issues. We called him yesterday to learn he felt the car was doing good with no problems. We were upset to hear this as we spent big money for this car and wanted some type of fix. Frustrated, we checked the web and found this site. We were relieved to find we were not alone or crazy. We want to keep our car as we are proud of it, but are also disappointed. PLEASE WHAT DO WE DO. I am starting to wonder if Lexus knows we have bought three cars from them (same dealer, es300 is300 and the es330) in a year and did something to the car to have us upgrade to a GS. This sounds suspicious and bad I know and I'm sorry to put that out there. I would rather believe the latter and do.

Info we found from Toyota #TC005-03 "Technical Service Information Bulletin" (not for general public) This addresses ATM shifting issues with the 2004 Rx330. So Lexus obviously knows somethings not right.

Please help us. The dealer said that they could do what is known as "burn the cars computer". They said that this may work for us as a last result. Magnussen's Lexus also said that the car trys to adjust to each driver aswell. I drive the car with slow starts and stops and my husband thinks its his police car.... no he doesn't drive like at work but is rougher than I.

We now (07/31/2004) are using a 2004 loaner ES330.....no problems with the tranny on this car and have driven it 100 miles. :cries:

Can reach me at fremontrobocop@yahoo.com