Is350 Engine Noise At Time Of Ignition

[David Britt]

Occasionally when I first start the engine of my 2006 IS350 after it has been sitting overnight, just as the engine is settling down to normal idle speed there is a loud, rapid ratcheting or rattling sound from the engine compartment for a couple of seconds. It is a real pride-killer, since the car for that moment sounds like a piece of junk. This noise is distinct from the well-documented clicking sound attributed to direct injection. So far I have received no satisfaction from either lexus.com or my local dealer. I don't know if this noise, too, could be somehow related to direct injection or if on occasion the anti-drainback valve in the oil filter does not seat properrly and the valve train is momentarily starved for oil pressure. Has anyone else had this problem and does anyone have an explanation?

[bartkat]

There is the sound of a servo motor that comes from under the dash, which I believe, is unlocking the steering wheel, etc when the ignition is turned on.

[Missnoinoi]

:chairshot: You have described my exact problem and it just started recently (within the past week). It happens after the car has been sitting overnight and it was the loudest today when the temperature got a little cooler. I will be visiting the dealer tommorrow and will keep you posted. This is pretty disappointing as the car barely has 8k on it.

[mike1]

I have the same exact problem, just as I start the car and the engine crancks, I hear a brief metallic rattling noise, it actually sounds almost like the noise you hear when you stick a paper in a fan for like a second (except more metallic). It is really frustrating because it doesn't happen every time so it's hard to detect the cause/source. I have my IS350 for about six months and it started a couple of weeks ago just when I crossed the 4000 miles. When I took my car in for the 5000 miles service a few days ago, I reported the problem to the Lexus service dept. When I got my car back I was told they checked all possible reasons, but since they were unable to duplicate the noise they couldn't make a detrmination of what's wrong with it and as far as they are concerned the car is OK. Will keep trying to figure it out and inform you. If anyone manages to solve this mystery please let me know. Thanks.

[mike1]

** UPDATE **

I realized that there is a link between the gas I put, (not the octane, which is always 91 or higher, but rather the gas station and the quality of gas you get there) and the noise at start-up. In retrospect, I noticed that the noise made an appearance when I filled gas a couple of times at gas stations other than the one I usually go to. I am very particular about putting at least 91 octane, but it is more than likely that the gas was not up to standards at those gas stations. Maybe your neighborhood/usual gas station is not consistent with the quality of gas they sell you. The noise may well be a side effect of impurities in the gas. My usual gas station is Chevron which is near my house and I've never had a noise problem when I filled gas there (I always put 93 octane). Since I filled about two tanks of clean gas there, the noise completely disappeared, and for the last few weeks NO NOISE! From now on, I'll make it a point to fill gas at my usual gas station and keep close attention if the noise makes another appearance. Good Luck!

[David Britt]

Update

I hope mike1 is correct, but I am somewhat skeptical. I, too, have noticed a possible connection between the fuel system and the engine noise at ignition. More often than not, these noises occur the morning after I have recently topped off the gas tank. I always fill up at the same station with Amoco filtered premium. These noises did not occur when the car was brand new (same gas, same station) and now occur occasionally, mostly after a fill-up. This leads me to believe that the connection, if there is one and it is not a coincidence, has to do with the direct injection pressurization pump and a full tank rather than what gas was purchased. In reality, I am still groping in the dark here. More replies welcome. Thanks.

[David Britt]

Mystery Solved?

I ran across a much more detailed discussion of this apparently widespread problem at clublexus.com. The consensus there seems to be that the problem is due to hydraulic lash control in the valvetrain. If oil drains from the tensioning mechanism there is clatter until the sytem "pumps up." The same discussion mentions a service bulletin recommending 5W-20 oil rather than the 5W-30 listed in the owner's manual. This is news to me, and I am trying to confirm this with Lexus. Also, a few respondents say that the onerous noise tends to go away by 12-14,000 miles. Don't know if I can stand it that long. This explanation is the most logical one I have yet heard. A pity that there is nothing so far from Lexus. Could it be that they simply don't want to acknowledge a design flaw?

[mehullica]

There is a bulletin for 2006 gs300 to replace valve liftere due to misfire codes. It also applies to is350's, same engine. Just because the bulletin says to replace lifters for a misfire isn't the only time it applies. Sounds like your lifters are dragging enough to not cause a misfire, just create noise.

[bartkat]

You can check out the TSB's at:

http://techinfo.lexus.com/

[David Britt]

Last Word

I finally got an official verdict from my Lexus dealer after a Lexus technical representative made his regularly scheduled visit and listened to a recording I had made of the noise in question. This representative, I am told, is in touch with Lexus engineers and is both qualified and authorized to respond. He says that this noise is NORMAL for the IS350 engine because the engine is technologically advanced and has "racing pistons" that are machined to very close tolerances and can be momentarily starved for oil during certain start-up situations. Supposedly this has been taken into account in the design of the powerplant and does not represent something that will cause premature wear or failure. I asked the service manager why Lexus would choose to go this route given the fact that its customer base has been carefully conditioned to expect quiet operation from Lexus vehicles. He replied that there is an industry-wide customer demand for more performance from luxury cars and that engineers are pressed to squeeze every drop of horsepower and torque from a given displacement. I understand that the IS350 is Lexus' performance entry, and I find that performance quite satisfying, but I wish I had been privy to the price exacted for that performance--namely the diesel-like clicking and the occasional raucous rattle on ignition. My buying decision might or might not have been the same. To translate: It's not fair, but it's there; get used to it. So, the next time a friend or acquaintance hears this noise and asks, "What was that?" just reply, "My very expensive racing pistons, and your crinkled up nose is merely a sign of piston envy."

[bartkat]

I've had my IS 350 for a little over a year and I've never heard any unusual sounds on starting the engine.

[York IS 350]

I have the same exact problem, just as I start the car and the engine crancks, I hear a brief metallic rattling noise, it actually sounds almost like the noise you hear when you stick a paper in a fan for like a second (except more metallic). It is really frustrating because it doesn't happen every time so it's hard to detect the cause/source. I have my IS350 for about six months and it started a couple of weeks ago just when I crossed the 4000 miles. When I took my car in for the 5000 miles service a few days ago, I reported the problem to the Lexus service dept. When I got my car back I was told they checked all possible reasons, but since they were unable to duplicate the noise they couldn't make a detrmination of what's wrong with it and as far as they are concerned the car is OK. Will keep trying to figure it out and inform you. If anyone manages to solve this mystery please let me know. Thanks.

You have described this problem very well. My 350 developed this at around 5000 miles also. It now has 12,000. Dealer has been unable to diagnose due to being very intermittent. Recently took car in for annual safety and emmission inspection and told them to keep it until they diagnosed noise. To my surprise (one day later), dealer called and said they found the cause and it is described in a Technical Service Bulletin (don't know which yet) and that parts were ordered and will be repaired under warranty. I was told it was something to do with one of the overhead cams (chain tensioner possibly??). Any ways, for those that experience this annoying noise, sounds like there is a solution. When I find the TSB number, I will pass along.

[mike1]

I have the same exact problem, just as I start the car and the engine crancks, I hear a brief metallic rattling noise, it actually sounds almost like the noise you hear when you stick a paper in a fan for like a second (except more metallic). It is really frustrating because it doesn't happen every time so it's hard to detect the cause/source. I have my IS350 for about six months and it started a couple of weeks ago just when I crossed the 4000 miles. When I took my car in for the 5000 miles service a few days ago, I reported the problem to the Lexus service dept. When I got my car back I was told they checked all possible reasons, but since they were unable to duplicate the noise they couldn't make a detrmination of what's wrong with it and as far as they are concerned the car is OK. Will keep trying to figure it out and inform you. If anyone manages to solve this mystery please let me know. Thanks.

You have described this problem very well. My 350 developed this at around 5000 miles also. It now has 12,000. Dealer has been unable to diagnose due to being very intermittent. Recently took car in for annual safety and emmission inspection and told them to keep it until they diagnosed noise. To my surprise (one day later), dealer called and said they found the cause and it is described in a Technical Service Bulletin (don't know which yet) and that parts were ordered and will be repaired under warranty. I was told it was something to do with one of the overhead cams (chain tensioner possibly??). Any ways, for those that experience this annoying noise, sounds like there is a solution. When I find the TSB number, I will pass along.

Thank you.

I appreciate any update on the TSB. I now have 13000 miles and the noise never stopped. In fact I think it got worse in the sense that it makes an appearance every time I start the car, and not just every once in a while like before. My 15000 mile service is comming up soon and I'd love to get rid of this noise once and for all.

[York IS 350]

OK. Here is the scoop on this grinding noise at start-up. As I reported previously, my dealer finally diagnosed the noise in my IS350 and noted that a TSIB was issued to remedy the problem. Thanks to Member 'mehullica', I can report that the TSIB number is EG019-07, titled "Brief Enginer Knock/Noise at Cold Start". It is designated for IS350 '06 - '07's. It covers these model years for VIN #'s before JTHBE262#72009954 (TMK Producing Plant) and JTHBE262#75015099 (Tahara Producing Plant). The required repair is covered under the Lexus Powertrain Warranty (72 months or 70,000 miles).

As I read through the TSIB, I was astonished at how invasive the repair proceedure is. Virtually the entire top end of the engine must be dismantled including the intake cams (left an right). The repair involves replacing the intake Camshaft Gear Assembly and is estimated to take 6 hours. I certainly hope that the dealer service techs are well trained for this major repair.

Not exactly what I bargained for when deciding to purchase my first Lexus. I went the Lexus route versus BMW to avoid this type of major headache. Will be my last Lexus if my dealer can't make it right.

Anyways, hope this is helpful for those who have experienced this issue. I will report back with the results of my repair experience.

Hopefully the attachment of the TSIB comes through with this reply.

L_EG019_07.pdf

[majin ssj eric]

So this problem shouldn't affect 2008 models then???

[bartkat]

The VIN's affected should be listed on the TSB.

[bartkat]

This is only anectdotal but some of us have noticed that those who are changing oil more often haven't had this noise. This is like 3000 mile changes = no noise. 5000 mile changes = noise, especially 3500 - 4000 miles into an oil change. Just a thought.

[York IS 350]

OK. Here is the scoop on this grinding noise at start-up. As I reported previously, my dealer finally diagnosed the noise in my IS350 and noted that a TSIB was issued to remedy the problem. Thanks to Member 'mehullica', I can report that the TSIB number is EG019-07, titled "Brief Enginer Knock/Noise at Cold Start". It is designated for IS350 '06 - '07's. It covers these model years for VIN #'s before JTHBE262#72009954 (TMK Producing Plant) and JTHBE262#75015099 (Tahara Producing Plant). The required repair is covered under the Lexus Powertrain Warranty (72 months or 70,000 miles).

As I read through the TSIB, I was astonished at how invasive the repair proceedure is. Virtually the entire top end of the engine must be dismantled including the intake cams (left an right). The repair involves replacing the intake Camshaft Gear Assembly and is estimated to take 6 hours. I certainly hope that the dealer service techs are well trained for this major repair.

Not exactly what I bargained for when deciding to purchase my first Lexus. I went the Lexus route versus BMW to avoid this type of major headache. Will be my last Lexus if my dealer can't make it right.

Anyways, hope this is helpful for those who have experienced this issue. I will report back with the results of my repair experience.

Hopefully the attachment of the TSIB comes through with this reply.

Quick update. Parts are finally in at dealer and have scheduled repair on 9/24. Will provide report on outcome of service when complete.

[dallaslexus]

Wow - I am having the same problem. Will be waiting anxiously to hear the results of the repair...

[York IS 350]

OK. Here is the scoop on this grinding noise at start-up. As I reported previously, my dealer finally diagnosed the noise in my IS350 and noted that a TSIB was issued to remedy the problem. Thanks to Member 'mehullica', I can report that the TSIB number is EG019-07, titled "Brief Enginer Knock/Noise at Cold Start". It is designated for IS350 '06 - '07's. It covers these model years for VIN #'s before JTHBE262#72009954 (TMK Producing Plant) and JTHBE262#75015099 (Tahara Producing Plant). The required repair is covered under the Lexus Powertrain Warranty (72 months or 70,000 miles).

As I read through the TSIB, I was astonished at how invasive the repair proceedure is. Virtually the entire top end of the engine must be dismantled including the intake cams (left an right). The repair involves replacing the intake Camshaft Gear Assembly and is estimated to take 6 hours. I certainly hope that the dealer service techs are well trained for this major repair.

Not exactly what I bargained for when deciding to purchase my first Lexus. I went the Lexus route versus BMW to avoid this type of major headache. Will be my last Lexus if my dealer can't make it right.

Anyways, hope this is helpful for those who have experienced this issue. I will report back with the results of my repair experience.

Hopefully the attachment of the TSIB comes through with this reply.

Update: My dealer completed the TSIB repair last week and so far all is well. Theypicked up my car on a Monday morning and returned it Thursday at noon. They actually had it completed Wednesday afternoon but wanted to keep overnight to make several cold starts to see if noise issue was resolved. So far, I have heard no noise. For those that have experienced this problem, this is the proper remedy. Forget all the non-sense about oil viscosity and frequent changes. I will report back to this chain of messages if the noise returns. Good luck to all.

[isboy]

This sounds like the exact problem I have

on my IS250.

I got back from a one week trip, and when starting it up the next morning, it rattled worse than I have ever heard. It only does it on "cooler" mornings after it has been sitting for a while, and then it only lasts a second.

I am going to try 5w20 oil before I bring it in though.

[David Britt]

OK. Here is the scoop on this grinding noise at start-up. As I reported previously, my dealer finally diagnosed the noise in my IS350 and noted that a TSIB was issued to remedy the problem. Thanks to Member 'mehullica', I can report that the TSIB number is EG019-07, titled "Brief Enginer Knock/Noise at Cold Start". It is designated for IS350 '06 - '07's. It covers these model years for VIN #'s before JTHBE262#72009954 (TMK Producing Plant) and JTHBE262#75015099 (Tahara Producing Plant). The required repair is covered under the Lexus Powertrain Warranty (72 months or 70,000 miles).

As I read through the TSIB, I was astonished at how invasive the repair proceedure is. Virtually the entire top end of the engine must be dismantled including the intake cams (left an right). The repair involves replacing the intake Camshaft Gear Assembly and is estimated to take 6 hours. I certainly hope that the dealer service techs are well trained for this major repair.

Not exactly what I bargained for when deciding to purchase my first Lexus. I went the Lexus route versus BMW to avoid this type of major headache. Will be my last Lexus if my dealer can't make it right.

Anyways, hope this is helpful for those who have experienced this issue. I will report back with the results of my repair experience.

Hopefully the attachment of the TSIB comes through with this reply.

Update: My dealer completed the TSIB repair last week and so far all is well. Theypicked up my car on a Monday morning and returned it Thursday at noon. They actually had it completed Wednesday afternoon but wanted to keep overnight to make several cold starts to see if noise issue was resolved. So far, I have heard no noise. For those that have experienced this problem, this is the proper remedy. Forget all the non-sense about oil viscosity and frequent changes. I will report back to this chain of messages if the noise returns. Good luck to all.

This is David B in S.C. My local Lexus dealer tells me that the service bulletin mentioned here has been discontinued, that it was an attempt to "quieten things down in the engine" but was apparently unsuccessful. The service personnel there insist that the occasional cold start knock is due to a "short-collar" performance piston and is to be considered normal and harmless. I don't know what to believe.

[Dawill]

This is David B in S.C. My local Lexus dealer tells me that the service bulletin mentioned here has been discontinued, that it was an attempt to "quieten things down in the engine" but was apparently unsuccessful. The service personnel there insist that the occasional cold start knock is due to a "short-collar" performance piston and is to be considered normal and harmless. I don't know what to believe.

They fixed mine like 2 weeks ago. I have been having the issue since I had 8k miles on my car. I now have 18k, so probably about 8-9 months I've been having the issue. What I had to do to get them to repair it was record it happening on audio tape and take it in. They tried to tell me it was normal. So I simply said I want to see every single is350 on the lot do it then. And that if the noise is normal I no longer want this car as I feel I will have to rebuild my engine after 50k miles or so. The tech was like "lexus makes quality engines, you won't have to rebuild it. blah blah blah". I left the car with them, they told me they couldn't reproduce the noise. Then the next day they called me back and were like " Oh there is a service bulletin on your car". Then they listed all the parts that had to be replaced, which pretty much equated to $5000 worth of repair I would say and a rebuild of the top of the motor. Lets just say I was very amused since I have been complaining about this issue forever and they haven't listened. They had my car for 2 days and it runs as if it was new again. The initial plan was to keep this car long term (10 or so years) but now I'm thinking I want to dump it for something more reliable. I have serious doubts in the workmanship inside the IS line. It is definately the last first gen car I ever buy.

[EnginePassion]

===========================

It is definately the last first gen car I ever buy.

============================

Man, this is not a first gen IS.

I heard a lot of stories like this about my IS from Sterling McCall Lexus in Houston before I moved to Miami. I agree with your comment that service techs don't know much about the IS. BUT this Lexus problem, I mean how could they compete with other makers and don't have competent techs?

[sdposton]

11 October 2008,

My local Lexus dealer just performed this repair on my IS 350 regarding the startup noise and it wasn't even making any noise, they're looking for work and Lexus is paying!!