Does The 02' Es Have The Same Engine As The Avalon? Also, Other Q

[90LS400Lexus]

Hello. Sorry, not directly a Lexus question, but people at the Toyota forums have been very little help. I am considering a 2002 Avalon XLS, with the 3.0L V6 that has 137K miles. I am wondering... does this have the same engine as the Lexus ES? Also, did this engine have the notorious "sludging" problem, or was that the 97-99 models only? Lastly, are these "non-interference" engines?

Thanks in advance!

[mehullica]

The 2002 Avalon has a 1MZ-FE engine, same as a 1999-2001 ES300.

[90LS400Lexus]

Thanks. That was fast..... now, does it have the sludge issues? Interference engines?

The 2002 Avalon has a 1MZ-FE engine, same as a 1999-2001 ES300.

[lexusk8]

All 1MZ-FE engines are prone to have sludge issues, not just the ES. You'll need to check up on the history of oil changes done to the car, and if they have been kept up at a regular basis.

[Toysrme]

I still don't believe in sludge, and I've seen them in person torn apart. Engines sludge because the owner didn't change the oil enough. Any engine will do it. IMO if there were a sludge issue, you'd see hundreds of changes. Not afew here & there. AFA being non-interference, I think so. The valve lift didn't increase any (It's only .320"). They're listed on gates as being int tho.

If that engine had problems, we wouldn't be replcing 3s-gte's with vvt-i 1mz-fe's in MR2's so quickly now. ;) Don't be scared of it. Just change the f'ing oil on a semi-regular basis LoL!

[mehullica]

I agree Lexus/Toyota got a bad wrap with "sludge". Any engine will do it.

[steviej]

Any engine will do it.

When the Dodge Durango first came out it was plagued with sludge issues for the same reason.....infrequent oil changes.

steviej

[X72]

Hello. Sorry, not directly a Lexus question, but people at the Toyota forums have been very little help. I am considering a 2002 Avalon XLS, with the 3.0L V6 that has 137K miles. I am wondering... does this have the same engine as the Lexus ES? Also, did this engine have the notorious "sludging" problem, or was that the 97-99 models only? Lastly, are these "non-interference" engines?

Thanks in advance!

90LS400, here is my advice. Take the car to your mechanic to look it over up on the lift and make sure the car has not been in any serious accidents and check the mechanical bits, suspension, and any leaks over for you/ the $100 - $150 you spend there is well worth it if it helps you pass on a car that you should pass on. If that goes well, negotiate with the dealer to have the front valve cover removed in your presence. You will then see clearly if the engine has had frequent oil changes because you will see no sludge (black goo), just some varnish at worst or a very clean engine at best. The area underneath the oil cap is covered with a black coating that looks like sludge, but is a sound deadening material. That area under the oil cap blocks your view inside, hence the suggestion to pull the front valve cover off. It may be an extra expense, but you will sleep better at night knowing you did your best due diligence. I would also suggest changing the PCV valve and hose.

I think Toyota/Lexus is getting pretty much the rap they deserve. Notice that they have a 6 month/5,000 mile oil change interval on the later ES330's with the 3MZ-FE engine. The 6 month/ 7,500 mile oil change interval from the 02 and 03 cars with the 1MZ-FE engines was dropped. These engines are less tolerant of extending the oil change interval than others. There is a percentage of the population that is "forgetful" when it comes to oil changes, but there is no reason for me to believe that Toyota/Lexus owners are any different than the owners of cars from other manufacturers.

If you say 5,000 miles for an oil change, then the forgetful/busy people may change it out at 7,500 miles. If you say, 7,500 miles, then it takes no great leap of imagination that some of these cars are going 9 to 12k miles, especially since a lot of people skip the time interval and go by mileage alone which may mean only one oil change a year.

[SW03ES]

I think Toyota/Lexus is getting pretty much the rap they deserve. Notice that they have a 6 month/5,000 mile oil change interval on the later ES330's with the 3MZ-FE engine. The 6 month/ 7,500 mile oil change interval from the 02 and 03 cars with the 1MZ-FE engines was dropped. These engines are less tolerant of extending the oil change interval than others. There is a percentage of the population that is "forgetful" when it comes to oil changes, but there is no reason for me to believe that Toyota/Lexus owners are any different than the owners of cars from other manufacturers.

The sludging issue was already addressed before the 02 models rolled out, the "sludging issue" refers only to the 97-01 car.

The reason they dropped the 7500 mile change across the line (all models) was so the dealer could sell service at a more profitable 5k interval.

Anyways, the maintenance schedule says change the oil every 5k-7.5k miles. IMHO if an owner gets sludge because he's "forgetful" and can't seem to stop by a jiffy lube every 3-4 months its his fault. Its a $40,000 machine, it needs to be maintained to the factory specs. I drive about 2,000 miles a month, that means about every other month I'm at the dealer for an oil change. I work 70 hours a week, if I can find the time anyone can.

[Toysrme]

For North America:

Camry:

89-91 2vz-fe

92-93 3vz-fe

94-96 188bhp

97-02 194bhp

03-02 210bhp vvt-i

04-05 3mz-fe AND 1mz-fe (Produced at the same time, not staggered)

Avalon:

95-97 Avalon 194bhp

97-99 Avalon 200bhp

00-04 Avalon 210bhp vvt-i

05+ Avalon 2gr-fe

Solara:

99-03 200bhp

04-07(?) 3mz-fe

Highlander:

01-03 210bhp vvt-i

04-07(?) 3mz-fe

RX300:

97 200bhp

98-03 210bhp vvt-i

RX330:

04-07 3mz-fe

RX350:

07+ 2gr-fe

Sienna:

(97)98-00 194bhp

01-03 210bhp vvt-i

04-06 3mz-fe

07+ 2gr-fe

ES250:

89-91 2vz-fe

ES 300:

92-93 3vz-fe

94-96 188bhp

97-98 200bhp

99-02 210bhp vvt-i

ES330:

03-06 3mz-fe

ES350:

07+ 2gr-fe

4runner:

88-95 3vz-e

96-03 5vz-fe

04+ 1gr-fe

Pick-up/T100:

88-95 3vz-e

Tacoma:

95-04 5vz-fe

05+ 1gr-fe

Tundra:

00-04 5vz-fe

05+ 1gr-fe

That's every v6 Toyota I can think of off-hand.

[X72]

90LS400, so what did you decide to do?

Here is a thread supporting SW03ES' viewpoint.

http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/sho...part=1&vc=1

[mburnickas]

90LS400, so what did you decide to do?

Here is a thread supporting SW03ES' viewpoint.

http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/sho...part=1&vc=1

the iron is on the high side for only 5K miles IMHO.

Per Terry, an oil testing house here.

"My own Avalon (2001) began sludging and you can imagine how anal I am with maintenance !!! That on M1 5w-30 tri syn.

PCV system was loading up too.

Auto-RX and Fuel Power with Schaeffers fixed that issue, then I switched to RL 5w-30 but the analysis results showed the oil being stressed severely.

Design issue troops not service intervals."

Based on my limited testing in my 98, there is no way I would ever go 7,500 miles per the book with dino.

[X72]

mburnickas, I think SW03ES' point is that the sludge issue is affecting a small percentage of engines in 1997-2001 models. I haven't seen any online severe engine sludge reports in 2002 and beyond vehicles based on the modifications that Toyota/Lexus did. I do believe that the engine is still very hard on oil and I personally keep the oil change inverval relatively short on our 03 and 05 ES' (5 months and under 4k miles on conventional oil on the 05 ES and 6 months and 5 to 6k miles on synthetic on the 03).

Here is the UOA I ran on the 03 a while back.

http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/sho...true#Post246465

I don't agree with SW03ES that Toyota's primary motivation to drop the 7.5k mile interval to 5k mile was to "help" dealer profits, especially when Honda is going the other way and extending their oil change intervals with no problems. Basically, the competition can claim lower operating costs. This is not to say that Honda or any other manufacturer has their own problems.

[90LS400Lexus]

Sorry for my delay in reply. I had actually passed on that car, as it looked like it had been repainted and I was really wanting a Tundra at the time. They ended up listing that 02' Avalon on ebay and it sold for something like $8800, which is was still a good price for and 02' Avalon XLS. Anyway, I ended up buying a Toyota Tundra in November of 2006 and have actually already sold it. I sold it about 3 weeks ago. It was a nice truck, it was a 2000 Tundra SR5, access cab, 4wd, V8, loaded to the max. It originally stickered for $30,100... I got it for $9500. It had 100K when I bought it. I sold it at 108K for $10500. I really liked it, but I was getting tired of "feeding" it, as it loved the gas. Also, the timing belt was due and that was another $500 and I had heard about weak transmissions on the 00-02 Tundras, so that scared me, despite mine was still working perfectly. With that said, I decided to sell it and go with a smaller/older car/truck or SUV. I am thinking about another 90-94 LS400, 92-97 ES300, 95-97 Toyota T100, 92-98 Toyota Camry, 90-96 Toyota Celica or a 91-94 Toyota Land Cruiser. Its a pretty wide range I know. I know there are some gas guzzlers on that list - aka Land Cruiser, but I can get one of these cheap enough to offset the gas price I think.

I found a 97' ES300 for $4500. Its a nice car on the inside, but the outside has some dents and bruises. I also had found a 92' ES300 in VGC for only $2200, but it was sold before I got back to it.

I would really like to go back to a 90-94 LS400, but one with lower miles this time. My last LS had over 250K when I sold it.

With that said, does anyone know if the 3.0L that is in the 92-96 Camry/ES300 are interference engines? What about the 97 ES300? According to some searching I did here on the forums, it appears that the 98-older ES are non-interference.

Thanks again!

90LS400, so what did you decide to do?

Here is a thread supporting SW03ES' viewpoint.

http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/sho...part=1&vc=1

[Lexucan]

does anyone know if the 3.0L that is in the 92-96 Camry/ES300 are interference engines? What about the 97 ES300? According to some searching I did here on the forums, it appears that the 98-older ES are non-interference.

I know for certain that the 92-96 ES300 has the non-interference engine. I believe it became an interference engine when VVT-I was introduced. That may have been in 1999, but I'm not sure about that.