Fuel Mileage Tyranny

[mann777]

i have a 98 LS recently acquired with about 82K miles on it and could not get 17mpg on long trips. In DE they are putting in this ethanol blend today and my gas mileage has dopped to about 14mpg. Is anyone else having this problem? It seems to run ok, but the price of gas here is 3.05 for the cheap stuff! Jersey is lower than us! You notice that I don't say cheaper, because gas over 2.00 is not cheap. What happened to 1.99 this spring! Damn!

Ah, the ethanol blended gasoline. What a sucky product if ever there was one. Good for the environment...?... probably. Maybe Good for the SUVs, but I don't think so suited for the LS . That crap picks up water in the tank and flows it through the fuel system; putting water in contact with lines and components that are not designed to be exposed to it.

I beleive It also helps to loosen rust and other crud that previously lay harmlessly at the bottom of your tank and carries it up to clog filters and the like.

I hope we get the real dope... gasoline without the ethanol crap. I wouldn't touch that stuff if it was 20% cheaper than regular unleaded.

Also, for those interested, this article (and many more like it online) points to acetone as a fuel additive for improving mileage significantly.... I came across this topic , let me know your views.

http://www.pureenergysystems.com/new...00069_Acetone/

[SRK]

We've had ethanol blended gasoline for almost twenty years here on the west coast. No problems at all. It is methanol that will suspend water and mix with gasoline, not ethanol.

If you think ethanol is nasty, wait until you dope your gas with acetone. Acetone makes ethanol look like Koolaid.

Let us know how the acetone works out........

[CUMan]

It seems to me that I read somewhere that ethanol could not be blended with gasoline at the refinery and then shipped through pipelines because it would absorb water from the pipelines. Ethanol is apparently being shipped by rail or truck to the points where it is blended with the gasoline.

Ethanol blend gasoline is a good example of politicians making major decisions while ignoring economic and marketplace realities. Many knowledgable people contend that the energy input required to produce a gallon of ethanol is greater than the energy the ethanol will produce. Ethanol has higher octane than gasoline; however, its energy content is 10-20% less than gasoline. This will result in lower miles per gallon.

The only folks pleased by ethanol will probably be Archer-Daniels-Midland (and their cohorts), corn farmers, and politicians.

[ko90ls]

mann777 the link didn't work. but hey, have you heard about the burning rock? there is a form of sandstone in the west, i think dakota or somewhere that is so rich with oil it will burn on contact, sorta like firewood. there is someone with a refinery that can convert this stone into oil/gas/jet fuel. unfortunately it produces twice the waste that refining traditional oil does (bye, bye Ozone) but it sounds promising to me if the right amount of money was put into R&D. but speaking on ethanol, it seems strange to me that the first major company pushing ethanol was GM, and now Ford but what about everyone else? if the stuff is so revolutionary then why hasn't everyone jumped on the boat?

[cardona6569]

Hello:

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Ace...t_your_own_risk

The above link is the one that came up missing about the use of acetone. I have been using acetone in my Lex with no adverse results and no need to use premium, because the acetone ups the octane. The car feels the same as when I put 91 or higher. My car passed the tests no engine light. I have been using it also in a Murano 2003 and a Pontiac Grand Prix 1989 with no problems. The best acetone to use is the clear color pure, not the others that have color and fragance.

Second to the topic originator, you need to check if your plugs, air filter, Mass airflow sensor needs to be clean, because unless you drive the car in the power mode all the time there is a problem somewhere with your MPG, I get 20 even in the city, it drops if I get into a traffic jam, to about 18 mpg. Highway I get between 25-29 MPG depending on hills and jams that, yes they occur in the highways here. This is not going over 65- MPH.

Third get ready for even more usage of ethanol since that seems to be the way of the US government until the prices go down, which they should in a couple of years. I believe that if there is a crisis, how is it that the Petrol Companies are making record profits, something does not follow in the equation, and the Federal Trade Commision should take a hard look into it. We as consumers are getting the worst part of the raw deal. I have no problem paying for the gas as it is, but if it should be cheaper, or it could depress the economy and the people, because the people will adjust their spending to accomodate the energy needs, which translate into every product going up due to their increasing costs.

Sincerely,

C PR

mann777 the link didn't work. but hey, have you heard about the burning rock? there is a form of sandstone in the west, i think dakota or somewhere that is so rich with oil it will burn on contact, sorta like firewood. there is someone with a refinery that can convert this stone into oil/gas/jet fuel. unfortunately it produces twice the waste that refining traditional oil does (bye, bye Ozone) but it sounds promising to me if the right amount of money was put into R&D. but speaking on ethanol, it seems strange to me that the first major company pushing ethanol was GM, and now Ford but what about everyone else? if the stuff is so revolutionary then why hasn't everyone jumped on the boat?

[mann777]

GUYS THIS IS WHAT THE WEBSITE SAYS ABOUT ACETONE, SINCE THE SHOTCUT IS UNABLE TO MAKE UP TO THIS REPORT, I AM HAVING IT PASTED BELOW FOR ALL YOU GUYS. LEMME KNOW UR REVIEWS AS WELL.

Acetone (CH3COCH3) is a product that can be purchased inexpensively in most locations around the world, such as in the common hardware, auto parts, or drug store. Added to the fuel tank in tiny amounts, acetone aids in the vaporization of the gasoline or diesel, increasing fuel efficiency, engine longevity, and performance -- as well as reducing hydrocarbon emissions.

HOW IT WORKS :Complete vaporization of fuel is far from perfect in today's cars and trucks. A certain amount of residual fuel in most engines remains liquid in the hot chamber. In order to be fully combusted, the fuel must be fully vaporized.

Surface tension presents an obstacle to vaporization. For instance the energy barrier from surface tension can sometimes force water to reach 300 degrees Fahrenheit before it vaporizes. Similarly with gasoline.

Acetone drastically reduces the surface tension. Most fuel molecules are sluggish with respect to their natural frequency. Acetone has an inherent molecular vibration that "stirs up" the fuel molecules, to break the surface tension. This results in a more complete vaporization with other factors remaining the same. More complete vaporization means less wasted fuel, hence the increased gas mileage from the increased thermal efficiency.

That excess fuel was formerly wasted past the rings or sent out the tailpipe but when mixed with acetone it gets burned, though the engine still thinks it is running straight gas.

Acetone allows gasoline to behave more like the ideal automotive fuel which is PROPANE. The degree of improved mileage depends on how much unburned fuel you are presently wasting. You might gain 15 to 35-percent better economy from the use of acetone. Sometimes even more.

How Much to Use

Add in tiny amounts from about one part per 5000 to one part per 3000, depending on the vehicle -- just a few ounces per ten gallons of gas. This comes to between 0.0003 % to 0.0025 % acetone maximum or approximately 1/15th of one-percent. Note that is around .78 cc per liter or one ounce per 10 gallons. Not more than three oz. per 10 gallons.

After you first find the best gasoline in your area, then try the acetone amount for your car per ten gallons, and if you are happy with your newfound mileage, you might want to try stopping the use of acetone for a couple of tanks. Watch the drop in mileage. It will amaze you. That reverse technique is one of the biggest eye openers concerning the use of acetone in fuel.

In a 10-gallon tank of gasoline, use one to three ounces of pure acetone to obtain excellent mileage improvements. In a ten-gallon tank of diesel fuel, use from 1 to 2 ounces of acetone. Performance goes up too. Use about a half-teaspoon of acetone in the fuel tank of a 4-cycle lawnmower or snowblower. Or you can apply it with an eyedropper.

Adding Acetone to Your Tank

When you fill up with fuel, note the number of gallons added, then calculate the right amount of acetone to add. Less is more. Remember all gasoline is different. Some will work better than others in the presence of acetone which is strictly a vaporization tool, rather than a fuel additive that alters combustion. The car computer still thinks it is running straight gasoline. None of your settings are altered. None of your engine parts are affected. Check out ScanGauge for an inexpensive MPG device.

Some stores sell acetone in metal cans of various sizes, which are safe to keep indoors. However, it is difficult to pour from these cans, which have a flat top and short neck from which spillage is inevitable. In any case, while handling acetone, you should be wearing rubber gloves.

One option is to get a small graduated cylinder (available from science supplies store or some pharmacies). The small ones have larger intervals between markings so that it is easier to fill them to the level desired. The narrow cylinder can be held to the neck of the can to catch all drips. Then from the cylinder you can pour neatly into the tank. The small pouring spout suitable for laboratories prevents drips onto the paint.

Being etched with neat lines at each milliliter, these graduated cylinders are also good for measuring precise amounts -- in ounces or milliliters.

Additional Benefits

In addition to increased mileage acetone added to fuel boasts other benefits such as increased power, engine life, and performance. Less unburned fuel going past the rings keeps the rings and engine oil in far better condition.

A tiny bit of acetone in diesel fuel can stop the black smoke when the rack is all the way at full throttle. You will notice that the exhaust soot will be greatly reduced and your truck or car runs smoother.

Acetone can reduce hydrocarbon emissions up to 60 percent. In some older cars, the HC readings with acetone in a 1986 GMC went from 440 PPM to 195, as just one example. Though mileage gains taper off with too much acetone, hydrocarbon emissions are nevertheless greatly reduced. Pure acetone is an extremely clean burning fuel that burns in air with a pretty blue, smokeless flame.

Acetone reduces the formation of water-ice crystals in below-zero weather which can damage the fuel filter. Change that fuel filter every year to protect injectors.

There are no known bad effects and every good reason to use acetone in your fuel. I have never seen a problem with acetone, and I have used ACETONE in gasoline and diesel fuel and in jet fuel (JP-4) for 50 years. I have rigorously tested fuels independently (with burns all over me) and am considered an authority on this important subject.

No Issues with the Engine Parts

I have soaked carburetor parts in acetone for months and even years to see if there is any deterioration. Any parts made to run with gasoline will work with acetone just fine. I presently have parts soaking in 1, 2, 5, and 10 % acetone/gasoline mixes as well as just gasoline. That is 20 to 200 times too much just to be sure. The 30R7 rated parts are in perfect condition. All my tests have been run with Texaco gasoline. I tested the gas stations in my area to FIRST find the best gasoline BEFORE putting acetone in the tank. But I have no idea from a pragmatic view what other gasolines do except that when I attempt to use them, my MPG drops like a rock. So for purely monetary reasons, I run the best available gasoline.

If You Want to Do Independent Testing

For those of you who like to see the data yourself, there is a great little device available to check your exact gas mileage and more. See ScanGauge for an instrument that fits any car 1996 or newer. And some 1995 models. It measures your real-time MPG, inlet and coolant temperatures and many more details as you drive. This inexpensive tool should end a lot of debate over what works for mileage and what does not. We use the TRIP function to average the MPG at a steady 50 MPH both ways.

Since the fuel from every gas station is different from the next, the MPG performance will also vary. Then there exist a wide variety of additive choices at the terminals that affect quality. Also other variables in the cars performance such as warm external temperature versus cold external temperature, using the AC or not, headlights or not, incline of drive, etc. Try to eliminate as many of these variable as possible in your comparative testing.

Be consistent where you buy your gasoline because different gasolines vary tremendously. The best gas and the worst gas in your neighborhood will likely have a 30-percent spread in mileage. Same for diesel fuel. In my experience with repeated test results, I found that Texaco, Chevron and Canadian Shell deliver excellent gasoline mileage. Try to keep down the number of variables wherever you gas up by using the same station, same pump, same grade or same octane before testing. This is important.

Incidentally, in almost all cases, the lowest octane is best for mileage. Most modern vehicles do not have high enough compression to justify using high octane fuels. The testing indicates best mileage is usually obtained with 85 or 87 octane gasoline. Too much octane causes a loss of power and economy. BUT too little octane causes the same things plus knocking. Listen carefully to your engine for tell-tale knocks or clicks when you start out from a light. The best mileage points to the correct octane when the engine is properly tuned.

[Threadcutter]

I have rigorously tested fuels independently (with burns all over me) and am considered an authority on this important subject.

I'm not necessarily skeptical, but just what the "hi-ell" does all that mean?

I can accept that acetone would break up surface tension and allow greater atomization of gas.

Mann, I realize you're not the author, but this guy (whomever he is) gives me the heebie jeebies..............

[W201 sweden]

mann777 said:

"Ah, the ethanol blended gasoline. What a sucky product if ever there was one. Good for the environment...?... probably. Maybe Good for the SUVs, but I don't think so suited for the LS . That crap picks up water in the tank and flows it through the fuel system; putting water in contact with lines and components that are not designed to be exposed to it."

I think you need some more information before you make up your mind!

Adding ethanol to the gasoline is actually very good, even from a technical point of view! (By the way - in what way should there be a difference between a SUV and a normal car?) <_<

Alcohol will bind the polar water molecules to the non-polar carbon/hydrogen in the fuel. This means it will PREVENT free (destructive and corrosive) water in your fuel system!!! In the cold swedish winter, adding alcohol to fuel is normal to prevent ice blocking in the carburator nozzles (old cars).

The extra oxygen atoms in the alcohol also INCREASES combustion efficiency, as it reacts with the complex gasoline molecules.

Adding alcohol also INCREASES the octane rating, giving you a fuel that is less prone to pre-detonation.

The E85 fuel (with 85% ethanol and 14% gasoline) available alongside normal 95 and 98 unleaded in Sweden has an impressive minimum 104 RON!!! B) (Very good for turbo cars...)

On the downside, ethanol is a bit lower in "energy density". 1,0 liter "pure" gasoline corresponds to approx. 1,3 liter ethanol. A car run on pure alcohol will have higher fuel consumption - given there are no changes done to the engine. But the higher octane rating of ethanol will allow for a higher compression ratio, which will increase the efficiency of the engine, thus decreasing the gap between gasoline and alcohol.

Adding up to approx 15% of ethanol will not degrade fuel consumption - the available extra oxygen with it's the increased efficiency will compensate the lower energy contens in the ethanol.

Technical note: not all materials are OK with pure/high concentration alcohol, especially methanol, which is very aggresive.

But blending 10% or so of ethanol will not harm your car!

Some contries in Europe have had blended fuel for several years - no problems.

/Alexander

[cardona6569]

Hi:

Since the bonfire has been lit, I would like to add a new member,

naph·tha·lene

Etymology: alteration of earlier naphthaline, irregular from naphtha

: a crystalline aromatic hydrocarbon C 10 H 8 usually obtained by distillation of coal tar and used especially in organic synthesis

I used it more now than acetone since acetone is a bit expensive and this additive is cheaper. For 2 dollars you can use it like for a year. It does the same as acetone, more efficiently.

Opinions please.

[Threadcutter]

cardona6569'=

Etymology: alteration of earlier naphthaline, irregular from naphtha

: a crystalline aromatic hydrocarbon C 10 H 8 usually obtained by distillation of coal tar and used especially in organic synthesis

Naptha is the main ingredient in SeaFoam.........

I've been using SeaFoam in the gas tank for about 6 months, but I don't have a good "before & after" comparison........only "after"......

My car idles smooth, has good acceleration & I get 26 MPG........I'm happy.

Would you be so kind as to attach a picture of the container of Napthalene that you purchase(d). I'd like to buy it in bulk also, provided I can find it locally.

[SRK]

That rocket scientist that Mann quotes on the efficacy of acetone - well that's just more of the same kind of pseudo-scientific clap trap that has been applied to every brand of "home remedy" promoted by every kind of snake oil salesman since the beginning of the automotive age. Unreal stuff. Like the "natural frequency" of gasoline molecules being a bit "sluggish". Phone Richard Feynmann. And claims of up to 35% improvement in fuel mileage. Call the EPA. Somebody, for the love of god, forward this to Honda, or Toyota, right away -they need to hear about it, so they can improve their cars too!

Yep, he's right. Wear gloves with acetone. It's a ketone, and is highly carcinogenic, as well as being a universal solvent for most synthetic polymers.

Maybe the author should observe a four gas analyser sensing modern tailpipe emissions. Machines from 15 years ago can't even DETECT the hydrocarbon emissions of modern cars.

If it wasn't so pathetic, that article would be a joke.

My LS and GS are perfectly happy on the fuels sold by the major oil companies. As I am with that.

Better yet, forward that little essay to the boys in Monty Python. They will ressurrect the troupe just to do a skit with that little missive. Bunch of &#33;Removed&#33; nonsense.

And that's my gentle opinion......

[mann777]

Threadcutter the gentleman who was doing these tests was working at Fort Brad with USAF on the aircraft turbine engines. Now these engines were rebuilt which were unusable on any commercial flight but fuel burn is performed to calculate certain parameters , fuel efficiency and certain parameter, In this case what i see was basic test done , it was to study loss and gain of fuel burn with such additives, credibility of evidence, stability and reliabilty at that temp, and the burn rate compared to normal fuels - acetone. Now what he meant about the burns are during such test you are suppose to equip with fire retardent asbestos material wear, as acetone on exposure are highly flamable substance, during tests these do happen. I have personally seen on engine tests the generators exploding, cause the calculation to the last drop was in sizeable amount, any exceedance could be harmful and dangerous and very unstable

Last but not the least I ahve to add this note : Acetone is known to deteriorate cheap plastics and other substances. While the components in a car's fuel system should be of high quality, and thus immune to any deleterious effects from exposure to acetone, be aware that "ideal" is not always the case in practice. Be advised that not all systems have been tested against acetone. Until such thorough testing has been accomplished and certified by a accredited authority, you assume your own liability for experimentally testing acetone in your particular system..