Changing Brakes

[Grandpa]

Hello, I plan on changing my brakes, but I'm not sure about the dangers I can inflict on myself. I plan on following the tutorial at http://www.lexls.com/tutorials/brake/rbrotor.html#.

Can anyone tell me if I should attempt this? I have all the tools, but my friend said that his neighbor attempted to change his brakes and a screwdriver went through his face and now I'm worried....

And what are good brakes to buy for a 92 LS 400?

I am also confused, if you would take a look at lexls's tutorial, on what step 12 is doing. I only plan on changing my brakes. I would also like a more detailed explanation about step 13 and what exactly he is doing and how. thanks guys

[falciott]

Hello, I plan on changing my brakes, but I'm not sure about the dangers I can inflict on myself. I plan on following the tutorial at http://www.lexls.com/tutorials/brake/rbrotor.html#.

Can anyone tell me if I should attempt this? I have all the tools, but my friend said that his neighbor attempted to change his brakes and a screwdriver went through his face and now I'm worried....

And what are good brakes to buy for a 92 LS 400?

I am also confused, if you would take a look at lexls's tutorial, on what step 12 is doing. I only plan on changing my brakes. I would also like a more detailed explanation about step 13 and what exactly he is doing and how. thanks guys

If you're somewhat mechanically inclined, then changing the brakes is relatively easy. However, if you've never done any type of mechanical work on a car, then changing the brakes might seem like an overwhelming task. Having said that, if you are changing the brakes yourself, make sure you have a breaker bar as well, it'll make things alot easiear. To avoid having a screwdriver go thru your face, you should never point anything towards you! Things might slip and wham!!! Screw driver thru the face! In step 12 he's removing fluid from the reservoir, because by pushing the piston on the caliper, will push the fluid back in to the reservoir. Step 13 he;s pushing the piston in, or the new brake pads will not clear the rotors.

[Grandpa]

Hello, I plan on changing my brakes, but I'm not sure about the dangers I can inflict on myself. I plan on following the tutorial at http://www.lexls.com/tutorials/brake/rbrotor.html#.

Can anyone tell me if I should attempt this? I have all the tools, but my friend said that his neighbor attempted to change his brakes and a screwdriver went through his face and now I'm worried....

And what are good brakes to buy for a 92 LS 400?

I am also confused, if you would take a look at lexls's tutorial, on what step 12 is doing. I only plan on changing my brakes. I would also like a more detailed explanation about step 13 and what exactly he is doing and how. thanks guys

If you're somewhat mechanically inclined, then changing the brakes is relatively easy. However, if you've never done any type of mechanical work on a car, then changing the brakes might seem like an overwhelming task. Having said that, if you are changing the brakes yourself, make sure you have a breaker bar as well, it'll make things alot easiear. To avoid having a screwdriver go thru your face, you should never point anything towards you! Things might slip and wham!!! Screw driver thru the face! In step 12 he's removing fluid from the reservoir, because by pushing the piston on the caliper, will push the fluid back in to the reservoir. Step 13 he;s pushing the piston in, or the new brake pads will not clear the rotors.

Alright, I've done some work on my car like flush my coolant, change my oill, and stuff like that. So i think I can attempt this, but how do I remove the brake fluid from the reservoir?

[ko90ls]

as long as your brake fluid isn't topped off then you dont need to remove fluid. as long as you have about half you'll be fine. the brake change can be completed in about 1 hr for bothsides as long as you prepare for the step you mentioned. when you remove the caliper from the disc the pistion will slightly move out. do exactly as done in the tutorial, use a piece of wood, a tire iron, and some elbow grease and make sure you've moved it in enough to place the caliper over the disc. it doesn't have to be in all the way but if the brakes that you're replacing are very old (thin) the pistion will be out farther but don't worry. P.S. a breaker bar isn't needed sseeing as you only remove one bolt. The job is easier than the coolant.

[monarch]

Dragging and overheating brakes, pulls when braking, noise when braking and directional instability on wet or icy roads are potential safety consequences of not knowing what you are doing when changing the brake pads. I think it's better to learn the ropes about brake work using a beater car, not your primary driving car.

[Leadfoot]

Dragging and overheating brakes, pulls when braking, noise when braking and directional instability on wet or icy roads are potential safety consequences of not knowing what you are doing when changing the brake pads. I think it's better to learn the ropes about brake work using a beater car, not your primary driving car.

Whilst I utterly respect your opinion Monarch, I think if the guy is keen he can't go wrong if he is cautious, methodical and can follow instructions. If you can use a torque wrench and your brain then you will be fine Grandpa. I also recommend you go spend $10 and get 24hrs of access to download all the workshop manuals and technical service bulletins for your model from

http://techinfo.lexus.com/

The instructions on Carl's site are excellent and you can always come back here for help. The bolts will be fairly tight so you need a decent set of tools, breaker bar, sockets, torque wrench etc. Also be prepared to find rubber boots perished, springs broken or missing and therefore it pays to have an alternative method of getting to the spares department to get new parts or have the car off the road until the job is done right. There is a lot of satisfaction from knowing the jobs been done slowly and carefully.

However step six in the rotor replacement differs from the workshop manual. The manual says you should torque up three of the wheel nuts before securing the two little screws (one of which was missing on my one!). The wheel nuts have a tapered nose and these centre the disc exactly, you need to look closely otherwise you can introduce an imbalance, something I feel a few people may have fallen foul of on this forum. Once you have done up the screws you just take the nuts off again and continue as instructed.

I would recommend that after completing the job you take the car for a careful drive, progressively testing the security of your work, then return to the workshop and jack it back up and make sure everything is spinning freely with out binding ( a tiny amount of drag is OK). Old siezed calipers can be a real pain so you do want to make sure all is as toyota intended.

I did all four discs and pads a few weeks ago and the improvement in braking is surprising. My boots on the front caliper pistons were shot so I had to rebuild those, but it wasn't hard and working with lexus quality is a very satisfying experience.

Good luck & wear goggles!

[Grandpa]

However step six in the rotor replacement differs from the workshop manual. The manual says you should torque up three of the wheel nuts before securing the two little screws (one of which was missing on my one!). The wheel nuts have a tapered nose and these centre the disc exactly, you need to look closely otherwise you can introduce an imbalance, something I feel a few people may have fallen foul of on this forum. Once you have done up the screws you just take the nuts off again and continue as instructed.

Eh... im confused on what you are trying to say here... The two 14 mm screws that hold the rotor on or the two 14 mm bolts that are behind the caliper? Also... i just took my tire off and I think I encountered something bad. I dont have two screws that hold my rotor on as displayed in step 7 nor do i have a rubber thingy either and I can see where the screws should be.... I think i'm in trouble -_-.... Is this a possibility for why when I press my brake, my car shakes? Where can i get these two screws?

[CUMan]

I am not certain how important those two screws are. I recall a long thread either on this forum or on CL where some folks seemed to feel that they were necessary in order to keep the rotor from shifting slightly when the brakes were applied. This is hard for me to accept. If the lug nuts are tightened properly, I cannot see how the rotor could shift in the absence of these two screws. I suppose if the size of the holes through which the lug bolts fit were too big, and the lug nuts were not tightened properly, you could have some slight shifting of the rotor. This combination does not seem likely.

I just replaced my front rotors with SP slotted rotors. These rotors did not have the two screw holes. I have not felt any sensation that the rotors were shifting any when the brakes are applied.

Before I purchased these rotors, I discussed the need for the two screw holes with the sales people at Raceshopper.com. These are the folks from whom I purchased the rotors. They indicated that none of the after-market (non-Lexus) rotors come with these screw holes and that the only purpose for these screws was to hold the rotor in place when the tire is removed. I do not know if this was all fact or just sales talk.

I doubt that the absence of these screws is causing your car to shake. More than likely, your rotors simply need to be resurfaced.

[Grandpa]

Whew, that's very relieving to hear... now I'm not sure if i want to buy a whole new set of rotors or if I should surface it.....

How good are these rotors? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Lexus-LS400...sspagenameZWDVW

And how much would it cost for it to resurface my rotors? It's been shaking for about a year... just haven't had much time to do anything, nor the moeny LOL

Anyways... how am i going to remove the rotor if it is "rusted on" Carl from lexls said that he used a hammer to hit it loose, but if i am going to resurface it, I can't do that.

Also, the fluid in my brake resevoir is near the max in idle, so if I push the piston back onto the brake pad, I should do it slowly or what? Or is there a way to take fluid out?

[99lsguy]

Grandpa,

go to walmart or similar and get a turkey baster.......actually maybe another one a little smaller.....

You can use it to draw the old fluid out. Don't take all the fluid out.....just get it pretty low...then when you push the caliper in the fluid won't make a mess.....

[CUMan]

Whew, that's very relieving to hear... now I'm not sure if i want to buy a whole new set of rotors or if I should surface it.....

How good are these rotors? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Lexus-LS400...sspagenameZWDVW

The price quoted is certainly attractive. However, I think putting cross-drilled rotors on an LS 400 is probably overkill. This is not the type of vehicle that is going to be driven in such a manner that the extra cooling provided by the cross drilling is needed. Also, there are lots of folks who feel that the cross drilling weakens the integrity of the rotor. Slotted rotors are good, in my opinion. I have not read anywhere any opinions that the slots weaken the rotors. They do help to lessen the heat generated when braking, thereby decreasing the likelihood of rotor warping. I have had good experience with slotted rotors. They solved a problem with brake fade that I was having with a 96 Toyota 4-Runner, and I have been a believer since then. I have slotted rotors on the front of my 94 ES, also. I have not seen any downsides to their use.

"And how much would it cost for it to resurface my rotors? It's been shaking for about a year... just haven't had much time to do anything, nor the moeny LOL"

I would guess $25-$30. Its not very expensive.

"Anyways... how am i going to remove the rotor if it is "rusted on" Carl from lexls said that he used a hammer to hit it loose, but if i am going to resurface it, I can't do that."

There are two threaded holes in the rotors on your car. On the picture shown above, you will note them at about the three o'clock and nine o'clock positions. The purpose of these holes is to help remove the rotor if it is stuck. Get two bolts (I believe they are 10 mm), and screw them into these holes. When contact is made, alternate tightening these two bolts. This should break the bond that exists and push the rotor outward where you can remove it.

"Also, the fluid in my brake resevoir is near the max in idle, so if I push the piston back onto the brake pad, I should do it slowly or what? Or is there a way to take fluid out?"

You can remove some of the fluid easily with a turkey baster.

[Grandpa]

If it gets low, do I even need to remove the cap then? Also.. im quite confused on where to put my jackstand -_-. If I am working on my rear right tire... and I put the jack in the proper place... do i put the jackstand on the left side of the jack(closer to my tire, or on the right side of the jack(further from the tire)...

And I think i am just going to resurface my rotors and then buy new rotors in about two months.... Do these rotors look good?click here I can never find the slotted rotors, only drill slotted

[monarch]

If it gets low, do I even need to remove the cap then?

Yes, to adjust the brake fluid level back up to the Max line. At the end of your brake job the level must at the Max line and not overfull or else the brakes might drag and overheat.

I havn't changed brake pads on my LS400, but on my other Toyotas I pushed the piston in slowly using a hardware store "C - clamp". The more you push the piston in, the further the brake fluid level rises in the master cylinder reservoir. If it overflows it's no disaster other than the mess you have to clean up, but remember brake fluid is poisonous and can be absorbed through the skin.

[Leadfoot]

:D

I am not certain how important those two screws are. I recall a long thread either on this forum or on CL where some folks seemed to feel that they were necessary in order to keep the rotor from shifting slightly when the brakes were applied. This is hard for me to accept. If the lug nuts are tightened properly, I cannot see how the rotor could shift in the absence of these two screws. I suppose if the size of the holes through which the lug bolts fit were too big, and the lug nuts were not tightened properly, you could have some slight shifting of the rotor. This combination does not seem likely.

I just replaced my front rotors with SP slotted rotors. These rotors did not have the two screw holes. I have not felt any sensation that the rotors were shifting any when the brakes are applied.

Before I purchased these rotors, I discussed the need for the two screw holes with the sales people at Raceshopper.com. These are the folks from whom I purchased the rotors. They indicated that none of the after-market (non-Lexus) rotors come with these screw holes and that the only purpose for these screws was to hold the rotor in place when the tire is removed. I do not know if this was all fact or just sales talk.

I doubt that the absence of these screws is causing your car to shake. More than likely, your rotors simply need to be resurfaced.

Grandpa, I am referring to the two small screws on the outside of the disc that hold it to the hub, they are about 6mm thread diameter, usually corroded and sometimes missing (as in your case). I got my replacements from my toyota dealer for free!

On my 92 when I took the screws out I could mount the disc well off center. The mass of the disc is large enough that this imbalance would be felt at speed. The screws certainly could not transmit any braking torque, thats why the manual states you should do the lugnuts up with the wheel off so that the disc is centred exactly BEFORE you do up those two piddly screws. They merely hold the disc in the correct position, because there is no way you can move the disc once the wheel is being mounted and you are fighting gravity (unless you have a tribe of Hokaido Island forest pixies to help, they have very small hands). However the tapered face on the lug nuts does not protrude through the wheel so those who have off center discs won't know anybetter.

Maybe the aftermarket discs without the little screw holes have a much tighter tolerance around the stud holes and are therefore unlikely to be offcentre.

Sounds like you will be the master brake specialist around here in no time Grandpa! :D

[CUMan]

Grandpa, my suggestion would be to have the rotors resurfaced and see if that doesn't solve your problem. If it does, I see no need to replace the rotors.

You have no assurance of quality when you are purchasing rotors on the internet. Your existing rotors are probably OEM, and you know what you have with them. If your rotors are too thin to be resurfaced, then you will have to replace them.

The Lexus rotors are very expensive. At www.newlexusparts.com, the front rotors for a 92 LS cost $102.98 each. The rear rotors are $159.70 each. These prices include shipping.

As I said earlier, I replaced the front rotors on my 93 LS in May with SP Performance slotted rotors purchased at www.raceshopper.com. The cost for each rotor was about $65.00 (plus shipping). I did not replace the rear rotors; therefore, I have no idea what their price would be for those.

[Grandpa]

Grandpa, my suggestion would be to have the rotors resurfaced and see if that doesn't solve your problem. If it does, I see no need to replace the rotors.

You have no assurance of quality when you are purchasing rotors on the internet. Your existing rotors are probably OEM, and you know what you have with them. If your rotors are too thin to be resurfaced, then you will have to replace them.

The Lexus rotors are very expensive. At www.newlexusparts.com, the front rotors for a 92 LS cost $102.98 each. The rear rotors are $159.70 each. These prices include shipping.

As I said earlier, I replaced the front rotors on my 93 LS in May with SP Performance slotted rotors purchased at www.raceshopper.com. The cost for each rotor was about $65.00 (plus shipping). I did not replace the rear rotors; therefore, I have no idea what their price would be for those.

Alright... i'll keep you posted on the progress -_-

[Leadfoot]

If it gets low, do I even need to remove the cap then? Also.. im quite confused on where to put my jackstand -_-. If I am working on my rear right tire... and I put the jack in the proper place... do i put the jackstand on the left side of the jack(closer to my tire, or on the right side of the jack(further from the tire)...

I jack under my diff (manual page IN33 recommends this) and put the jack stand where you are putting the jack. The front engine crossmember is used when lift the whole front.

Perseverance is the key.

[jschunke]

Working on cars can be risky business. Foremost in safety is

to make sure the car doesn't role off the jack stand(s) and crush

you. Always use chocks, preferably jack one tire at a time, use

eye protection, a heavy set of clothing and gloves are essential.

I work best when alone, distraction free. Turning rotors makes little

sense in my book. By the time you remove the rotors you may as

well replace them with a quality product.

[Grandpa]

well.... i got the tire off and got everything in place and this is what I saw....

I ran my fingernail across it and i could feel some groves... which means it's pretty severe lol... Then I went to loosen the nuts and guess what... I couldn't lol.... I was using a normal rachet wrench... and torque wrench..

The bolts I tried to loosen are here .... the top one and the one behind the brakes... u can see them pretty distinctly.... any suggestions on how to loosen these? I tried using a hammer on the wrench, but I think it might just strip the bolt. My torque wrench is too big... sooo

[Threadcutter]

well.... i got the tire off and got everything in place and this is what I saw....

I ran my fingernail across it and i could feel some groves... which means it's pretty severe lol... Then I went to loosen the nuts and guess what... I couldn't lol.... I was using a normal rachet wrench... and torque wrench..

The bolts I tried to loosen are here .... the top one and the one behind the brakes... u can see them pretty distinctly.... any suggestions on how to loosen these? I tried using a hammer on the wrench, but I think it might just strip the bolt. My torque wrench is too big... sooo

Gramps:

Jack up & support the entire front end with jackstands. Obviously, put tranny in park, set the parking brake & block both rear wheels...........

Now you can turn the front wheels completely, which will allow you to use whatever length of wrench or breaker bar you want. It also helps to have a "dead blow" hammer. They have them at Sears. They're big plastic mallets & the head is filled with sand. That's what one of the earlier posters on this thread was referring to when he said "he used a hammer"......

[Grandpa]

Actually... disregard that post... I got the 14mm bolt off pretty easily, it just took both hands and some muscle... then the two 17mm bolts that hold the calliper on came off with my long torque wrench... I just needed the piston off so I could have room... but now I can't get the rotor off -_-... Check my work to see if I missed any bolts or anything... There were only two bolts that held the caliper on and 1 that held the piston assembly on... so here are the pics from front of the rotor, to the back of the rotor.... any suggestions on how to remove the rotor since I am trying to get it resurfaced?

[Leadfoot]

any suggestions on how to remove the rotor since I am trying to get it resurfaced?

Superb use of the camera, really helps us see what you are up too!

You may have to back off the parking brake adjuster thats accessable through the big hole that had the plastic plug. This will allow the parking shoes to retract and the disc will come off easy. Just keep going one way, if it binds up and the disc won't rotate then go the other way, but write down which way is which!!

For safety's sake measure the thickness of the rotors, new they are 0.630", worn out they are 0.591" so take a measurement and decide if its not better to just put a new rotor on. If you do end up putting a new rotor on take care not to put greasy fingers on the friction surfaces. You can clean it off if you do, but a little care will save the hassle.

Also please confirm that there are two 14mm bolts holding the non piston caliper side to the piston half of the caliper, you state only one came off?!!

nearly there......

[Grandpa]

Also please confirm that there are two 14mm bolts holding the non piston caliper side to the piston half of the caliper, you state only one came off?!!

well yeah.. there's two 14mm bolts that hold the piston assmebly on, but i only took one off and I just pulled the piston back... saw no point in removing the other one.. but there are 2 14 mm bolts and 2 17mm bolts.

You may have to back off the parking brake adjuster thats accessable through the big hole that had the plastic plug. This will allow the parking shoes to retract and the disc will come off easy. Just keep going one way, if it binds up and the disc won't rotate then go the other way, but write down which way is which!!

I am also confused on what you are trying to say here, lol.... so how do i access it? ahh.. soo confused at that post, sorry.

Also, take a look on my calliper... it's missing one of the clips -_-

[Leadfoot]

I dont have two screws that hold my rotor on as displayed in step 7 nor do i have a rubber thingy either and I can see where the screws should be.... I think i'm in trouble

Apologies, once you have completed the job it will be come clear. Also I forgot you didn't have the rubber thingy. reference the picture above. The parking brake adjuster should be able to be seen through the hole when the hole is rotated to the very bottom, you'll need a torch. Use a flat blade screwdriver to move the serrated adjuster wheel thats in the hole. Move it up or down depending on what loosens the shoes (sorry I can't remember which way it goes). Once you get the disc off play with the mechanism and you will understand it easily.

You will need the clips, they come in a "fitting kit", which is separate from the "pad kit" and "shim kit". I reused my old clips and put a little dab of anti sieze copper grease on the points where the pads touch the clips (a tiny bit only). You may be in for a trip to the dealer to get the "fitting kit", sorry I don't know the numbers.

[Grandpa]

Well... i decided to put everything back together because I think I will wait for a new set of rotors to come in... However... when I put everything back together.... my parking brake light is on and it won't go away... something tells me it's because of my brake pads