Ls 430 Gas Mileage?

[wstr75]

Currently have 2002 Acura RL that is a sweet car but is hard on gas. Driving 70 mph it gets around 20.5 mpg. Around town is much less. Early LS 400 owners say their cars get 25 mpg at 70 mph. Searched this site and did not turn up much info on LS 430 gas mileage. Would appreciate hearing what gas mileage LS 430 owners are seeing in highway and city driving. I'm thinking about getting a 2001 - 2003 era LS 430 and better gas mileage is a consideration.

[SW03ES]

How much less than 20.5?

In my experience 18 city 23 hwy is pretty average for an LS.

[jainla]

So far I've been seeing about 19-20 mpg on premium fuel, and that is I'd say 30% hwy 70% city.

On a recent trip to San Francisco I was showing 27-29 mpg on the highway, this is at 75mph plus (at one point I had the cc set to 85 but traffic on the 5 can get heavy at times). The 01-03 LS have a 5 speed auto, later cars have a 6 speed auto. What does the RL have?

I freely admit that I'm not an agressive driver, so if you fancy yourself more like Mario Andretti than Ms. Daisy YMMV.

:chairshot:

[wstr75]

My RL gets around 16 in town. It doesn't seem to ever get above 21 on the road. It has a four speed tranny. It has the variable valve timing engine. It starts getting happy at 80 mph and really wants to run. That's why the Honda hot rodders want that particular 3.5 liter engine. What's interesting is I had a 1997 Park Avenue Ultra that would run all day at 75 at 25 mpg and would get close to 30 at 65 mph. On a tractor site (of all places!) someone posted a comment about American cast iron engines having fuel management running to the lean side for economy while Japanese aluminum engines having fuel management running to the rich side for engine longevity (cast iron able to handle higher combustion temps versus aluminum) as an explanation why today's American cars have better gas mileage than similarly size/weight Japanese cars. The fuel richness asssumption could be bs, but that big ole Park Avenue sure was good on gas and not too bad on acceleration up to 60 either.

Couple of questions: 1) Much difference in fuel economy for six speed LS 430 versus five speed? 2) I keep hearing about early 400s getting 25 mpg highway. Do the 430s have similar mpg to the 400s or not?

[jainla]

My RL gets around 16 in town. It doesn't seem to ever get above 21 on the road. It has a four speed tranny. It has the variable valve timing engine.

You are sure you are leaving it in D4 and not D3 all the time? Are you using the recommended fuel? Has it always been this thirsty or is it a recent occurence (maybe oil hasn't changed in a while/needs service or something)?.

It starts getting happy at 80 mph and really wants to run. That's why the Honda hot rodders want that particular 3.5 liter engine.

Probably as you approach 80 you are nearing the torque peak of the engine in that gear (which I'm guessing is about 3500+ rpm---those rev happy Hondas!). At that point the engine has the most twist to supply and you're moving towards the power peak so it will take off like a rocket! Also the V-Tec will switch to the high rpm profile for better breathing.

What's interesting is I had a 1997 Park Avenue Ultra that would run all day at 75 at 25 mpg and would get close to 30 at 65 mph. On a tractor site (of all places!) someone posted a comment about American cast iron engines having fuel management running to the lean side for economy while Japanese aluminum engines having fuel management running to the rich side for engine longevity (cast iron able to handle higher combustion temps versus aluminum) as an explanation why today's American cars have better gas mileage than similarly size/weight Japanese cars. The fuel richness asssumption could be bs, but that big ole Park Avenue sure was good on gas and not too bad on acceleration up to 60 either.

That's possible. Also most American engines are tuned for more torque, so the final drive and gearing are taller. As you go faster the rpm level doesn't rise as quickly. All other things being equal a higher RPM usually equals higher fuel consumption. My ls430 stays under 2000 rpm in 5th at 60, go over 80 and you're approaching 3000 rpm. Also the PE had a larger engine than the RL (I believe 3.8 liters) so the baseline consumption is probably higher.

Couple of questions: 1) Much difference in fuel economy for six speed LS 430 versus five speed? 2) I keep hearing about early 400s getting 25 mpg highway. Do the 430s have similar mpg to the 400s or not?

The original LS400 was rated 18/23 mpg. The new ones are rated 18/25.

I don't know about 6sp vs. 5sp, maybe someone who's had both cars can weigh in here. So far the mags can't discern much performance difference.

The 430s will have better mileage than early 400s because of the extra 5th gear and better aerodynamics. I have heard the final drive in early 430s was a little lower than in the early 400s, perhaps someone can clarify that.

The last generation 400s (98-00) had 5 speed autoboxes, so they will get closer to the 430 in gas mileage.

I don't know what the cd for the RL is, but the LS has traditionally had one of, if not the lowest drag coefficients for a 4 door sedan; I think the current car with air suspension is .25. That definitely will give it an edge in any mileage race.

[wstr75]

Jainia, thanks for the reply. Yep, we're in 4th gear setting when driving (the proper detent for transmission lever setting). The RL is just simply sucks gas down and it does not matter too much how we drive it. Granted, running stop light to stop light races would make matters worse, but going to work, church, grocery store, Interstate travels, etc. all add up to significantly worse gas mileage than our previous Park Avenue Ultra. Now, on the other hand, the RL has not had any breakdowns or serious service work needs. The Park Avenue was the worst car I've ever had for service work.

Folks on the Acura RL forum all say the same thing regarding poor gas mileage. Hard to believe a Honda product would be such a dog on gas mileage, huh? Nonetheless, it runs good and flat out handles curves like it is glued to the road. However, glued to the road ain't going to get it with oil now fetching more than $72/barrel. I'm itching to buy a good used LS 430. The other car I'm considering is a 3.0 liter Outback wagon. I know, LS 430 and a 2005 Outback 3.0 are like comparing Moet de Chandon and Mad Dog 20/20. You see, my wife really enjoys driving our (currently my) new RX 400h. I like having space for hauling around occassional product (I do some sales work). The Outback is a sweet car and while the 2.5 liter gets better gas mileage, the 3.0 hauls the proverbial groceries better and still gets 25 mpg on the road. All things considered, a three year old LS 430 would probably suit my needs better for the next five or six years. What I'm trying to nail down is the Interstate mpg for five speed (early 430s) and six speed (late 430s) that forum owners here are averaging. 70% of my driving will be Interstate.

[SW03ES]

The reason the RL is so bad on gas is the fact that its too heavy a car for that V6 to handle.

[wstr75]

The reason the RL is so bad on gas is the fact that its too heavy a car for that V6 to handle.

I disagree, in part. You are correct about it being a surprisingly heavy car. The motor is plenty strong for the car. However, the power band to final drive ratio relationship may be the problem. The motor turns appreciable revs getting up to speed and even while running at Interstate speeds. You are not aware of the motor speed and there is no shortage of power, but you look down at the tach and see the motor is turning up considerable rpm.

What rpm does an early (five speed) LS 430 turn at 70 mph? Same question but for a late model (six speed) LS 430?

[RFeldes]

Very valid question wstr75 and i will make it a point on my 02 at 70mph to get you the numbers as I only watch my miles to empty these days ;) Get back to you tomorrow. All I have observed is 17.9 average, city.

[SW03ES]

I disagree, in part. You are correct about it being a surprisingly heavy car. The motor is plenty strong for the car. However, the power band to final drive ratio relationship may be the problem. The motor turns appreciable revs getting up to speed and even while running at Interstate speeds. You are not aware of the motor speed and there is no shortage of power, but you look down at the tach and see the motor is turning up considerable rpm.

What rpm does an early (five speed) LS 430 turn at 70 mph? Same question but for a late model (six speed) LS 430?

Why do you think those drive ratios are what they are? Because the car is too heavy for the motor.

[sapper_daddy]

yeah i agree that the car is probably tuned to it's best abilities as far as the gear ratios go but i still don't think that it is too heavy for the motor, that thing pulls a lot harder than most motors of it's kind and seems to be intended to do that. could be the actual engineering of the motor itself that makes it so powerful and HP just equals more gas spent. add a SMALL turbo system and i bet you do pick up about 4-6 mpg though, but you would probably be better off getting a different car than spending that kind of dough.

my 94 ls400 gets 25 mpg any day of the week and sometimes better, i am thinking about putting it up for grabs down the road though....

[jainla]

The reason the RL is so bad on gas is the fact that its too heavy a car for that V6 to handle.

I disagree, in part. You are correct about it being a surprisingly heavy car. The motor is plenty strong for the car. However, the power band to final drive ratio relationship may be the problem. The motor turns appreciable revs getting up to speed and even while running at Interstate speeds. You are not aware of the motor speed and there is no shortage of power, but you look down at the tach and see the motor is turning up considerable rpm.

Well Acura knew they would take a lot of flak for not having a V8 engine in that car, so they lowered the gearing to make acceleration comparable to a V8 powered car. Fuel economy lost out to performance.

What rpm does an early (five speed) LS 430 turn at 70 mph? Same question but for a late model (six speed) LS 430?

2200 at 70, around 1800 at 60.

[RFeldes]

Okay, tonight I got on I-210 which has a 60mph limit and hit 70, sorry law enforcement, but I did it for the club, and wouldn't you know, true story, up my a** comes a red mustang at least 110mph!!! I held on for 2k rpm at 70 and could not gather a reading on mpg as my blood pressure way up. Why do people drive like that? Anyways wstr75 I tried at risk of life and limb 2k at 70. When I get the nerve again I'll give you the mpg. RL's are great cars but V6's don't run with the Lexus 8's as in tonight when I had the "torque" to get the heck out of the way. ;) ...Guys, drive with sense and your life will follow and hopefully make "cents" too as in a payoff!!!

[wstr75]

Thanks for getting out there on the road and doing the rpm to speed test!! Looking at your address line I can't help but think of the The Band song titled "Up On Cripple Creek" and the line "In Lake Charles Louisiana I've a Bessie Girl I Once Knew". At any rate, there's another thread started today regarding LS 400 owners getting some truly outstanding gas mileage from their cars. There's no hope for getting better gas mileage from our RL and tonight I'm thinking about getting on area dealers waiting lists for a Camry Hybrid. We love our RX 400h and are getting 25 mpg and its only going to get better as summer weather and more miles are put on the car. Speaking of Lake Charles, you folks truly had it tough last year. Did you have storm damage?

[SW03ES]

Okay, tonight I got on I-210 which has a 60mph limit and hit 70, sorry law enforcement, but I did it for the club, and wouldn't you know, true story, up my a** comes a red mustang at least 110mph!!! I held on for 2k rpm at 70 and could not gather a reading on mpg as my blood pressure way up. Why do people drive like that? Anyways wstr75 I tried at risk of life and limb 2k at 70. When I get the nerve again I'll give you the mpg. RL's are great cars but V6's don't run with the Lexus 8's as in tonight when I had the "torque" to get the heck out of the way. ;) ...Guys, drive with sense and your life will follow and hopefully make "cents" too as in a payoff!!!

Now thats dedication lol

wstr- I like the new Camry, but thats a big step down from an RL. Ever thought about getting on the list for a GS450h?

[wstr75]

We own a small business. I think buying two new Lexus vehicles within four months would definitely raise questions from suppliers, employees, community, etc. Got to stay just far enough under the radar as to not cause too much commotion. Besides, 90% of the vehicles I've bought since age 16 have been used. I'd be buying used hybrids but there aren't any! I guess to stay under the radar we'll have to just keep the RL and put up with the not so good gas mileage. The thought about buying a Camry was a means of having the proverbial cake (new car and hybrid to boot) and eating it, too (Camry having lower luxury - under the economic sensitivity profile than a Lexus GS hybrid).

[92ls forhundo]

i was a huge acura/honda proponent for the longest time, i started with a 93 integra and just loved that car immesely, i always hated toyotas for their conservative blandness, until i got my ls00,anyhoo the thing about hondas is they are able to extract power from engines that should never be able to output what they do, sweet engineering, but their is a trade-off for making say, an average-sized v6,non aspirated v6,in 1997, perform like say a 2005 maxima does now.....food for thought.....

[cardona6569]

We own a small business. I think buying two new Lexus vehicles within four months would definitely raise questions from suppliers, employees, community, etc. Got to stay just far enough under the radar as to not cause too much commotion. Besides, 90% of the vehicles I've bought since age 16 have been used. I'd be buying used hybrids but there aren't any! I guess to stay under the radar we'll have to just keep the RL and put up with the not so good gas mileage. The thought about buying a Camry was a means of having the proverbial cake (new car and hybrid to boot) and eating it, too (Camry having lower luxury - under the economic sensitivity profile than a Lexus GS hybrid).

The Acura RL was the first Big Car Honda made, so they were not very experienced on the endeavor. It is my understanding they went more with the sport/luxury ride than with fuel savings, ( saving fuel was not their aim for the car). The RL also was modeled for the upper income clients of Honda to avoid them migrating towards other brands such as Lexus. Remember these were the years that Japanese automaker decided to challenge the US leadearship in the Luxury/Big car market, and they have. In my opinion they did not do their homework as well as Lexus did. I had a Prelude and the car had power but did not consume as much gas as I thought it would being sporty. But I feel they expected that fuel economy on the RL not a problem with the upper income persona buying the car.

C. PR

[93LSOwner]

The Acura RL was the first Big Car Honda made, so they were not very experienced on the endeavor. It is my understanding they went more with the sport/luxury ride than with fuel savings.

I thought it was the Legend. <_<

[cardona6569]

The first Legends were quite small cars no bigger than a Honda Accord, I rode one back in the days. The RL was a big car from day one, the Legend became bigger but the RL replaced it. The last Legends were great looking cars

C. Cardona

The Acura RL was the first Big Car Honda made, so they were not very experienced on the endeavor. It is my understanding they went more with the sport/luxury ride than with fuel savings.

I thought it was the Legend. <_<

[93LSOwner]

Yup, the Legend was the first Honda luxury car introduced to U.S.

[LexusNexxus]

This is one topic which I am extremely qualified

to speak on as I drive over 25,000 miles a year

and have had four LS models over the last 8 years

(I buy a new USED one every 2 years in order to

save money). Here's my list:

1990 LS400 bought with 150K miles

(now has over 250K miles and heads have never been off!)

1994 LS400 Anniversary Edition bought with only 80K Miles

(sold it to a friend and he totaled it - thank god he and he wife were not hurt - they rolled 3 times in UTAH!).

1998 LS400 bought with 100K from original owner

(should have never sold it! Circumstances)

2001 LS430 bought with 78K from original owner

I used to drive from AZ to CA and CA to AZ constantly

as well as all over both states. I would also drive the

SAME ROUTES many times which consisted of BOTH

HWY and CITY and a mix of both.

I can tell you that the 98, 99 and 2000 LS400's are

remarkable on FUEL ECONOMY because that was

the year (1998) that they got not only a 50HP

boost but something even more important...

CVVT (Constant Vaeriable Valve Timing).

CVVT allows you ignition timing to be optimized

at ANY speed CONSTANTLY.

IF you are going to buy a used LS400 I would

only consider a 98 99 or 2000. Or... just get

a 430.

THE BOTTOM LINE

The 98 99 and 2000 get the EXACT SAME FUEL

ECONOMY as the LS430. When I say exact I mean

ACROSS THE BOARD based upon CITY and HWY

and various different driving styles.

THis is amazing for the 430 considering it is

a heavier and more powerful car (it also steers

much tighter like a MBZ and BMW).

WHAT ARE THE NUMBERS?

The numbers vary GREATLY based upon HOW

you drive. Also, I have noticed that a fresh

oil change (I use full synthetic and do it

every 5K) and fresh wash and wax can improve

MPG on the freeway by 2 MPG!!!

In AZ most speed limits are 75 which means I

do 85 to 90. In CA it's 65 and I only do 75.

Freeway mileage can vary more than city

because of the higher speed and resistance

(internally and externally).

Here's my average for 98 LS400 and 2001 LS430

25 MPG on the HIGHWAY

and

20 MPG in the CITY

For those of you who can do it. If you go

only 65 on the highway you can get

27 MPG in a 98 99 2000 LS 400 or 01 LS 430.

No one believes me and I even bet my friend

$50 and he sat there in the car and watched

as we drove from Santa Barbara CA to Palm

Springs CA and got 27.5 MPG!

I told me when we were in AZ that I'd bet

him another $50 I could get 29.5 from PRESCOTT AZ

back to PALM SPRINGS. He wouldn't bet me and it was

good as I would have one since I had done it

before (the drive is from 5,000 ft elev in PRESCOTT

down to sea level in PALM SPRINGS-LOL!).

City mileage varies greatly only based on driving

habits. The LS gets amazing mileage once it's

rolling and up to speed. However, the number

on killer is going from light to light. Therefore

if you just quit accelerating when you know you

are going to hit a light you get to your location

in the same time.... however, you're carrying more

speed without the pedal to do it.

Like LARRY DAVID said on CURB YOUR ENTHUSIASM

when asked about the fuel economy of the toyota

camry in the city:

35MPG in the city? Are you sure?

"Well.. of course it depends upon the city!"

[TexasLexus94]

I own a 94 LS with 111K, and on a recent trip to Utah, I got 24 MPG. Which is OK. What amazes me is that my other car, a 10 year newer 2004 Mazda MX-5 Turbo convertible, gets 28 mpg on the highway.

Why? Because the Lex is 4,700 lbs, and the Mazda is all of 2.600 lbs. And when it comes to performance, I'm sure the Turbo is faster-but not by much. Both burn premium fuel, but other than that, the LS is just outstanding. I drive the Mazda for daily stuff to work, but unless the weather is top-down perfect on the weekends, it's drive time with the Lexus. Quieter, smoother (oh, that's right, the Mazda is a stick), and of course safer in a pinch.

Just my 3 cents worth....

[93LSOwner]

Edmunds states 1994 LS400 Curb Weight : 3859 lbs.

http://www.edmunds.com/used/1994/lexus/ls400/2886/specs.html

[SW03ES]

Yeah 3850 sounds more like it, the LS isn't 4700lbs.