wstr75

We're happy 400h owners. My wife loves the quietness and the cool factor. I like the gas mileage and technology. I'm happy to be getting 10 mpg better gas mileage than my former 2002 Yukon. I'm also happy to have the fastest car I've ever owned. On an Interstate this baby jumps from 55 to 70 pretty doggoned fast. Stuck in the middle lane behind grandpa and only a have short of window of opportunity opening-up in the left lane? No problem go from 55 to 70 and jump around grandpa in a flash. I wish an ES 350 hybrid was available. I'd be trading our gas sucking (18.5 mpg average) 2002 RL. Recently drove a hybrid Camry and am seriously considering purchasing it with Navigation and leather (that's about the extent of what can be added to a hybrid Camry).

Thanks for sharing your experience. Makes me feel better. I agree with your logic regarding the shop not being able to find something that only happens periodically.

Mehullica, thanks for your comments. The state of charge was 3 blue bars. The battery temperature should have been normal. Yes, it was a 90 degree day here in NC but there will be lots of 90 degree days over the next four months, so you got to think Toyota planned for 90 degree days as being normal operating conditions. So why the no-blue blues? I forgot to respond to your third comment about braking speed. I tried it at all speeds and the indicator went to the bottom of white but never into the blue, yet it showed regeneration symbols on the consumption display. The brakes felt normal. I may try driving over a bumpy road while braking to see if I get the brake release and re-engage feeling that occurs when the car suddenly moves from regeneration braking to pad braking as the car jogs over a sizeable bump in the road.

Our neighborhood is on a high hill. The battery usually gets to green after going down the hill. Yesterday noticed it did not appear to go into brake regenerating mode while going down the hill. I repeatedly got off the accelerator, waited a while and then applied the brakes and still no blue. On the way home after driving through town the consumption record showed the green 50W symbols which relate to brake regeneration. Something is amiss and a call to the dealer is necessary. Anyone else experience the no-blue, blues?

AMF, what kind of gas mileage are you seeing thus far? The professional reviews speak of the ES350 being essentially the same size as the original LS400. The original LS 400 was a sweet size. Do you feel the ES 350 is the LS 400 for this decade? I'm debating buying either a three or four year old LS 430 or buying a new ES 350.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/04/30/bus....0430toyota.php Love my 400h but find it interesting how these folks say Toyota's transmission and electric motor set-up is less efficient at highway speeds than their design. Competition is good, eh?

We own a small business. I think buying two new Lexus vehicles within four months would definitely raise questions from suppliers, employees, community, etc. Got to stay just far enough under the radar as to not cause too much commotion. Besides, 90% of the vehicles I've bought since age 16 have been used. I'd be buying used hybrids but there aren't any! I guess to stay under the radar we'll have to just keep the RL and put up with the not so good gas mileage. The thought about buying a Camry was a means of having the proverbial cake (new car and hybrid to boot) and eating it, too (Camry having lower luxury - under the economic sensitivity profile than a Lexus GS hybrid).

Thanks for getting out there on the road and doing the rpm to speed test!! Looking at your address line I can't help but think of the The Band song titled "Up On Cripple Creek" and the line "In Lake Charles Louisiana I've a Bessie Girl I Once Knew". At any rate, there's another thread started today regarding LS 400 owners getting some truly outstanding gas mileage from their cars. There's no hope for getting better gas mileage from our RL and tonight I'm thinking about getting on area dealers waiting lists for a Camry Hybrid. We love our RX 400h and are getting 25 mpg and its only going to get better as summer weather and more miles are put on the car. Speaking of Lake Charles, you folks truly had it tough last year. Did you have storm damage?

I disagree, in part. You are correct about it being a surprisingly heavy car. The motor is plenty strong for the car. However, the power band to final drive ratio relationship may be the problem. The motor turns appreciable revs getting up to speed and even while running at Interstate speeds. You are not aware of the motor speed and there is no shortage of power, but you look down at the tach and see the motor is turning up considerable rpm. What rpm does an early (five speed) LS 430 turn at 70 mph? Same question but for a late model (six speed) LS 430?

Jainia, thanks for the reply. Yep, we're in 4th gear setting when driving (the proper detent for transmission lever setting). The RL is just simply sucks gas down and it does not matter too much how we drive it. Granted, running stop light to stop light races would make matters worse, but going to work, church, grocery store, Interstate travels, etc. all add up to significantly worse gas mileage than our previous Park Avenue Ultra. Now, on the other hand, the RL has not had any breakdowns or serious service work needs. The Park Avenue was the worst car I've ever had for service work. Folks on the Acura RL forum all say the same thing regarding poor gas mileage. Hard to believe a Honda product would be such a dog on gas mileage, huh? Nonetheless, it runs good and flat out handles curves like it is glued to the road. However, glued to the road ain't going to get it with oil now fetching more than $72/barrel. I'm itching to buy a good used LS 430. The other car I'm considering is a 3.0 liter Outback wagon. I know, LS 430 and a 2005 Outback 3.0 are like comparing Moet de Chandon and Mad Dog 20/20. You see, my wife really enjoys driving our (currently my) new RX 400h. I like having space for hauling around occassional product (I do some sales work). The Outback is a sweet car and while the 2.5 liter gets better gas mileage, the 3.0 hauls the proverbial groceries better and still gets 25 mpg on the road. All things considered, a three year old LS 430 would probably suit my needs better for the next five or six years. What I'm trying to nail down is the Interstate mpg for five speed (early 430s) and six speed (late 430s) that forum owners here are averaging. 70% of my driving will be Interstate.

My RL gets around 16 in town. It doesn't seem to ever get above 21 on the road. It has a four speed tranny. It has the variable valve timing engine. It starts getting happy at 80 mph and really wants to run. That's why the Honda hot rodders want that particular 3.5 liter engine. What's interesting is I had a 1997 Park Avenue Ultra that would run all day at 75 at 25 mpg and would get close to 30 at 65 mph. On a tractor site (of all places!) someone posted a comment about American cast iron engines having fuel management running to the lean side for economy while Japanese aluminum engines having fuel management running to the rich side for engine longevity (cast iron able to handle higher combustion temps versus aluminum) as an explanation why today's American cars have better gas mileage than similarly size/weight Japanese cars. The fuel richness asssumption could be bs, but that big ole Park Avenue sure was good on gas and not too bad on acceleration up to 60 either. Couple of questions: 1) Much difference in fuel economy for six speed LS 430 versus five speed? 2) I keep hearing about early 400s getting 25 mpg highway. Do the 430s have similar mpg to the 400s or not?

Currently have 2002 Acura RL that is a sweet car but is hard on gas. Driving 70 mph it gets around 20.5 mpg. Around town is much less. Early LS 400 owners say their cars get 25 mpg at 70 mph. Searched this site and did not turn up much info on LS 430 gas mileage. Would appreciate hearing what gas mileage LS 430 owners are seeing in highway and city driving. I'm thinking about getting a 2001 - 2003 era LS 430 and better gas mileage is a consideration.

Light came on today and it took 13.6 gallons.

Love my 400h. Have logged 6000 miles. Drove back from D.C. to central N.C. today. There were numerous times when I accelerated from 65 mph to 85 mph in order to zip around a slow car in the middle lane. It's the fastest car I've had for accelerating in the 65 to 80 mph range. For the last 2000 miles it has averaged 24.3 mpg with most of the miles at 75 mph.

Speaking of oil changes, how many miles are you going between changes and is there any advantage to using a synthetic oil like Mobil 1 in the 400h. I've put synthetic in my previous cars and will be taking the 400h in for its 5000 mile initial service soon.

I am disappoined as well that there is not more user contol over the operation of the HSD system. Perhaps some hacker in the maintinance mode can figure some things out for us... hint, hint. As for the power resistor idea, I can see two problems: One is the cost of adding onto the HSD system which you already mentioned, and the other is that brake pads and rotors are cheaper than the electric motors and HSD components. Putting extra work (and were) onto them just to throw the heat away would not be cost effective. Better to disipate the heat in the traditional way with eaisily replaceable (and relativly cheap) parts. Capturing the heat is a good idea, but I doubt that the relatively small amount of heat generated (on an intermittant basis) would be very useful to the HSD system on the whole. I agree with your observations. Brake pads are cheap. Tonight we drove through downtown Greensboro and were on the electric motors for about 2 miles (averaged 40 mpg for that 5 minute period!). The speeds were 0 - 20 mph and the road was flat. I guess 400h owners in Florida tooling around downtown areas rack-up outstanding gas mileage as the motor doesn't have to run long to get up to temp and the terrain is flat. Say, those of us with AWD 400h with our front and rear electric motors/generators, do we get double the regeneration output during braking as a front wheel drive only versions?

Correction: 300 foot hill. Top elevation 1140 and bottom elevation 840. So the car goes green over a 300 foot total drop over a 1 mile run.

We live in a hilly area and our home is in a neighborhood at the top of a 800 ft. hill (we call it a mountain, but folks in Colorado would call it barely a hill). Every time I go into town, by the time I get to the bottom of the hill, the battery is maxed-out green and the brakes are no longer regenerating. Yet, try I can, the only times I can get the car to run on battery alone is either starting from flat or down hill locations. Even then, if there is the least bit of rise in the road, the ICE kicks in. So I'm primarily tooling around with a fully charged propulsion battery and running on ICE at slow speeds. If there were a way to force the car to stay in electric propulsion only mode, I'm sure I'd see 3 mpg better mileage in my home area. I've read where Electrical Engineers in Southern California have "tricked" their Prius into driving on battery longer than stock set-up. While I'm not of a mind to screw-around with my Lexus, it would be neat if Lexus offered a setting change that us owners could switch on and off much like the towing mode some trucks have. On another note, it's too bad Lexus/Toyota did not put power resistors in series with the braking/regeneration circuit. When the battery goes green, the regeneration braking could continue but just throw away the juice in heat energy rather than wear on the brake pads. I know someone is going to say that the brake pads are dissapating heat energy, too. I guess using power resistors would add a bit more complication to an already complicated system. You could take this even further and put the power resistors in the coolant and use braking heat to help heat up the car in cold climates so as to reduce ICE operating time. Hey you Lexus engineers reading these forums! Listen up, you hear?!

It might have to do with the initial level of charge in the hybrid battery when you first begin braking. If the level is close to the "top" then a low priority is given to regenerative braking in the firmware decision "tree". The system ECU is "watching" your braking and acclerator pedal activity, continuously, in order to be able, a majority of the time (hopefully), just what your "intent" is. It's tryingto predict the future, literally. For instance if you have been cruising along at a relatively constant speed and then suddenly lift the accelerator pedal the system would likely conclude that you intend to begin coasting down to a lower speed. Now if you suddenly, immediately after releasing the accelerator, apply the brakes the system will probably assume you want to slow down quickly and the brakes are the proper resource for that. On the other hand suppose you were just previously accelerating and now only slightly release the gas pedal. The system would properly assume you want to enter cruise "mode". In your case when you first, initially, applied the brakes the system could have been indecisive about your intent. But then you released the brakes and then re-applied them (non-severe assumption here) and that would clearly imply a non-urgent coastdown and then it would be appropriate to engage the regeneration cycle. If the hybrid battery were nearly discharged I have no doubt that regeneration would have begun the instant you released the accelerator, even before you applied braking the first time. Like the Sargeant said on Forest Gump: WWEST, you are a $@%# genius!! Thanks for the excellent explanation of how the 400h computer makes its decisions!! The upshot is that I should take my foot off the gas first, wait a second and then apply the brakes.

I've noticed on a number of occassions judging by the left dash guage (blue zone during regenerative braking) that the needle does not go into the blue zone when braking from, say 45 to 70 mph, but if I release braking pressure and re-apply braking the needle immediately goes into the blue. These stops were slow down for stop light stops rather than accident avoidance stops. The battery state was blue bars (not green). Anyone else see this on their car? Why would the car elect to use conventional braking rather than regenerative on the initial application of brakes and then to use regenerative on the second application just a moment later with essentially the same speed conditions?

I find the turning radius much better than my RX300, which was terrible. This is a large vehicle and this is a huge improvement. I can't compare it to any other SUV at this time. I'm happy for you, but my turning radius leaves something to be desired. I was on a four lane city intersection and was turning across two lanes, albeit narrow lanes. Maybe something is not aligned correctly in my car's front steering. Will have it checked in the up-coming 5K first service.

Love my 400h. Now have 2600 miles and averaging 24.5 mpg. Was making a u-turn in Charlotte last Sunday and had to do the reverse then forward while two lanes of traffic was coming up fast. I swear my Yukon turned through a tighter radius than my 400h. Hey, with AWD and vehicle stability control, is there any way to jerk the 400h around in a tighter radius should a quick u-turn be needed, you know, like we all used to do with our rear-wheel drive cars with skinny tires back in the late 1960s?

Roland, Like you, my actual mileage is averaging about 1.5 mpg less than what the 400h's screen indicates. My 400h has 1600 miles and is averaging 23.5 mpg in about a 50/50 mix of short city trips (some of it from home to work = 2.5 miles and the ICE runs the entire time). The gas mileage on the road holds steady around 26 - 28 up to about 68 mph. Above 68 mph it starts falling off.

Tried my 400h on an incline in the yard outside my office. The incline is grassed about six feet high and at about a 30 degree angle. The 400h went nearly all the way to the top and then did some herky jerky stuff. Couldn't tell if it was the automatic system intermittently locking up the spinning wheel (right front in this case) or if it was the front electric drive motor dumping in lots of torque in sudden hits. Knowing the 400h was not designed for off road stuff, can anyone explain what was happening? Was it wheel braking or electric motor surging? The real test will be when it snows and I take the 400h up the hill in my neighborhood. I live in NC and we've been warm this year. Anybody in Colorado with a 400h with experience in snow and hills? One more thing, my 97 and 02 Yukons clambered up this incline with no problem.

Thanks for suggesting checking the bluetooth phone threads. I have a Treo 650 on Sprint. It looks like it will have to be upgraded with the newest patch which should enable the Lexus to see the phone. If you have a bluetooth phone, you'll save yourself some trouble by reading through the posts on this site. It's not a uderfriendly arrangement that Lexus chose, but it's NOT a huge negative, in my opinion. Welcome to the club! JSL