The Es 350 And The Camry Almost Identical

amf1932 · November 30, 2006

Is there a way for me to tell if it's available where I am (short of asking the dealer)? I'd be buying from a St Louis area dealer.

When we made our visit to the dealer, we looked at a bunch of different models. I can't remember what the ES had. I think the bottom line on the Monroney Sticker was around $41K, but that could have been the Navigation/Mark Levinson package combined with some other accessories.

I bought my UL Edition April 3rd. 2006 from my dealer who's located in Brooklyn, NY. (Bay Ridge Lexus)

When I went to Lexus.com when I was looking to purchase this car, then put in my zip code, it did not indicate that the UL Editions were available in my area, yet my dealer had the one I bought, and then afterwards they didn't get another UL Edition for at least a few months. My salesman told me recently that they still get this model, but basically it's on special order. Today, I went to Lexus.com, and they still do not indicate thet the UL model is available in my area, yet they're around.

BTW: You CAN"T get the Mark Levinson package unless you get the UL Edition.

I would ask the dealer if they're able to get the model you're interested in.

SW03ES · November 30, 2006

Is there a way for me to tell if it's available where I am (short of asking the dealer)? I'd be buying from a St Louis area dealer.

When we made our visit to the dealer, we looked at a bunch of different models. I can't remember what the ES had. I think the bottom line on the Monroney Sticker was around $41K, but that could have been the Navigation/Mark Levinson package combined with some other accessories.

$41k is the nav/lev car, the UL car is $44k. You can go to www.lexus.com and build your own, any packages that pop up after you put in your zip code are available in your area.

Buford · November 30, 2006

That "build your own" is a fun little tool. It looks like the UL isn't offered here. I tried it with my local area code, as well as the one where the dealer is located (I'm 120 miles away). The highest package was a Premium Plus Package for $8,035; bringing the MSRP to $41.9K. I guess that's what we looked at when we visited the dealership.

I think I like the Smoky Granite Mica with the darker interior.

So... how does it work? If I printed that off, would the dealer put much effort into finding (or ordering one)? Or would they just look at it thoughtfully, and insist I pick from what they have in stock?

amf1932 · November 30, 2006

$41k is the nav/lev car, the UL car is $44k. You can go to www.lexus.com and build your own, any packages that pop up after you put in your zip code are available in your area.

Wrong! Unless it's a UL car it's nav/NOT lev. The Mark Levinson audio is only supplied in this model ES.

That "build your own" is a fun little tool. It looks like the UL isn't offered here. I tried it with my local area code, as well as the one where the dealer is located (I'm 120 miles away). The highest package was a Premium Plus Package for $8,035; bringing the MSRP to $41.9K. I guess that's what we looked at when we visited the dealership.

I think I like the Smoky Granite Mica with the darker interior.

So... how does it work? If I printed that off, would the dealer put much effort into finding (or ordering one)? Or would they just look at it thoughtfully, and insist I pick from what they have in stock?

I don't trust the "Build your Own" feature on the Lexus website!! It's been proven to be wrong! The best thing for you to do is go to your dealer and ASK if they can get you the model you're after!

tdgreer · November 30, 2006

I'm in Tampa, and when I do the "build your own" and choose the highest Premium Plus Package ($7,137.00- total car $41,022.00), I can get the voice-activated DVD Nav, but no ML. According to "build your own", I can't get ML.

Anyone know what the deal about why the UL is held back in some places?

amf1932 · December 1, 2006

I'm in Tampa, and when I do the "build your own" and choose the highest Premium Plus Package ($7,137.00- total car $41,022.00), I can get the voice-activated DVD Nav, but no ML. According to "build your own", I can't get ML.

Anyone know what the deal about why the UL is held back in some places?

This is why so many prospective purchasers are not happy about not being offered the UL model in their areas......and on top of that, no ML in the Premium Plus Package....only in the UL! :(

SW03ES · December 1, 2006

So... how does it work? If I printed that off, would the dealer put much effort into finding (or ordering one)? Or would they just look at it thoughtfully, and insist I pick from what they have in stock?

No, the dealer will work with you to allocate the car you want, may tike a little time. You'll get a better deal on something in stock though, but in my experience its not that big a difference.

Wrong! Unless it's a UL car it's nav/NOT lev. The Mark Levinson audio is only supplied in this model ES.

You're absolutely right, I was just used to saying "nav/lev" with the older cars.

I don't trust the "Build your Own" feature on the Lexus website!! It's been proven to be wrong! The best thing for you to do is go to your dealer and ASK if they can get you the model you're after!

I've never known it to be wrong. True you got a UL car, but your salesman told you it was basically a special order model.

amf1932 · December 1, 2006

I've never known it to be wrong. True you got a UL car, but your salesman told you it was basically a special order model.

My salesman never implied that it was a special order, but it came to them on the first truckload of cars. :huh:

SW03ES · December 1, 2006

My salesman told me recently that they still get this model, but basically it's on special order.

amf1932 · December 1, 2006

My salesman told me recently that they still get this model, but basically it's on special order.

A misunderstanding.

Originally he told me, back in April that the UL car I got was delivered to them on the first truckload of

ES350's, of which all the others were Premium, or Premium Plus models.

Now, he only gets the UL's only on special orders.

SW03ES · December 1, 2006

For some reason after they first came out almost all the ES' were UL models...weird

amf1932 · December 1, 2006

For some reason after they first came out almost all the ES' were UL models...weird

I think you have that backwards. Every dealer in New York State, after the ES350 hit the market received mostly Premium or Premium Plus Editions, on a 10 to 1 ratio.....approximately. ;)

Buford · December 1, 2006

Maybe I missed it.... could someone please recap what is included in the UL that is above and beyond the Premium Plus Package (the $8,035 one)?

I know the ML stereo is one thing, is there anything else? I don't think an upgraded stereo system would be a make/break issue with me (and my tin ear). :P

amf1932 · December 1, 2006

Maybe I missed it.... could someone please recap what is included in the UL that is above and beyond the Premium Plus Package (the $8,035 one)?

I know the ML stereo is one thing, is there anything else? I don't think an upgraded stereo system would be a make/break issue with me (and my tin ear). :P

Ultra-Luxury Package Includes:

- Semi-analine leather-trimmed interior

- Wood- and leather-trimmed steering wheel and shift knob

- Lexus voice-activated DVD Navigation System with backup camera

and Bluetooth® technology

- Driver's seat power cushion extender

- Lexus Memory System to control power driver's and front passenger's

seats (except lumbar), outside mirrors and steering wheel

- Rear-seat side airbags (SRS)

- Remote keyless entry-linked memory

- Panorama glass roof

- Power rear sunshade

- High-Intensity Discharge (HID) headlamps

- Dual-swivel Adaptive Front Lighting System (AFS)

- Electrochromic outside mirrors with tilt-down in reverse

- Rain-sensing intermittent windshield wipers with mist cycle

- 17 x 7-in Graphite-polished alloy wheels

- Full-size spare tire with 17-in alloy wheel

Additional Options:

- Navigation System/Mark Levinson® Surround Sound Package

- Intuitive Parking Assist

- Preferred Accessory Package (includes Cargo net, Trunk mat and Wheel locks)

SW03ES · December 2, 2006

I think you have that backwards. Every dealer in New York State, after the ES350 hit the market received mostly Premium or Premium Plus Editions, on a 10 to 1 ratio.....approximately. ;)

Around here the entire first shipment was ULs. My dealer got 4 on one truck. I didnt see a non-UL ES for a couple weeks after the launch.

amf1932 · December 2, 2006

I think you have that backwards. Every dealer in New York State, after the ES350 hit the market received mostly Premium or Premium Plus Editions, on a 10 to 1 ratio.....approximately. ;)

Around here the entire first shipment was ULs. My dealer got 4 on one truck. I didnt see a non-UL ES for a couple weeks after the launch.

Strange....and Lexus.com still don't list the UL Edition in the Maryland, Washington DC as an available option???

Sickwitit · December 2, 2006

I think you have that backwards. Every dealer in New York State, after the ES350 hit the market received mostly Premium or Premium Plus Editions, on a 10 to 1 ratio.....approximately. ;)

Around here the entire first shipment was ULs. My dealer got 4 on one truck. I didnt see a non-UL ES for a couple weeks after the launch.

Strange....and Lexus.com still don't list the UL Edition in the Maryland, Washington DC as an available option???

Hello everyone,

I thought I'd post my experience with the UL's in Nj, I started looking for my car around Sept. I went to the Lexus of Bridgewater after looking online for several weeks and their was'nt any available in my region as per the site, when I went to the dealership I test drove the ES premium plus package with the Nav as well as the Gs and the Is the ES was test driven last and the choice for me was easy, So after the family and I decided on the Es we went inside and talked with the sell's manager about options and we all wanted the Royal Ruby UL with ML but you all guested it was'nt available and would have to be special ordered, I at that time decided to call around to other dealers and inquire about availabities and yeah you guest it none available and I was told as well that on the the naxt boat their might be some available but I would have to wait a month or two, so back to Bridgewater lexus to special order my Royal Ruby UL with ML I told my sells agent that I had a couple dealerships looking for this car as well (I was quoted 4 months wait time), I received a phone call three and half weeks later from Bridgewater sell's Manager telling me that he could import trade for this car from another dealer in the midwest at a price of $1000.00 more than my contracted quoted price, I siad no way I'd pay $1000.00 more for this car but after discussing this further with my family and checking one last time for availabilty and considering I'd have to wait until the end of Jan 2007 and maybe late Feb. to get my car I called back and offered 500.00 and the deal was sealed and I had my car within a week and I'm loving every minute minus a few problems.

Regards Rob

Buford · December 2, 2006

Ultra-Luxury Package Includes:

Thanks for the run-down. I know you guys probably don't agree, but there doesn't seem to be much in the UL that you can't get with the $8K Premium Plus package. The only things that the UL appears to add that I would be interested in would be Bluetooth and Remote Keyless Entry. And frankly, I thought the ES 350 I looked at had those options.

SW03ES · December 2, 2006

Strange....and Lexus.com still don't list the UL Edition in the Maryland, Washington DC as an available option???

It did at that time, but stopped when they stopped stocking them.

Thanks for the run-down. I know you guys probably don't agree, but there doesn't seem to be much in the UL that you can't get with the $8K Premium Plus package. The only things that the UL appears to add that I would be interested in would be Bluetooth and Remote Keyless Entry. And frankly, I thought the ES 350 I looked at had those options.

All ES' have Bluetooth and the smart key system. You have to see the cars to understand the difference. The UL has the following things the other ES' don't have:

-Semi-analine leather trim (this is VERY important, the base leather on the ES is much lower quality than the leather that was present on the previous model (its similar to the leather thats been in the RX since 04).

-ML Audio system. The stock stereo is okay, but the ML is FAR superior and I personally would miss it a lot. The ML in the 350 is way better than the ML in mine.

-Graphite polished wheels that are way more attractive

-Panoramic roof (feature really does something for the car).

-Parking sensors (some dealers install these aftermarket but its not the same as the Lexus system)

-Power rear sunshade (I'd miss that too).

-Adaptive front lighting system

Seems like paltry things, but I would not even consider buying a Premium Plus ES to replace my ES300 frankly, I probably would consider a UL ES350. To me, buying a Premium Plus ES would mean:

1. Downgrading to lower quality leather

2. Loosing my ML audio

3. Loosing my rear sunshade

Makes absolutely no sense why Lexus forces everybody into this package.

amf1932 · December 2, 2006

This option really made a big difference as far as I was concerned.

Buford · December 2, 2006

All ES' have Bluetooth and the smart key system. You have to see the cars to understand the difference. The UL has the following things the other ES' don't have:

You mentioned the parking sensors, power rear sunshade, and adaptive lighting... I think all three of these are also part of the Premium Plus package. I'd have to see the difference between the panoramic roof and the standard moonroof. The stereo is just not a big deal for me. I once tried to get into the hobby of high-end home audio equipment. I quickly discovered that I can't tell the difference. Saved me alot of money. :P

I can see where you folks who have older ES models would balk at the idea of getting less for more. That would bug me quite a bit. But, stepping up from a base Camry gives me a different perspective.

I mentioned to my wife that she might want to look at the Avalon. I saw one in XLS trim the other day, and it looked very nice. However, I suspect that my wife will not be overly interested in the Avalon. We still need to look at the LS. It's twice as expensive, but I'm not convinced it's twice as good. The wife really seemed to like the ES, and it will be her car.

God help me, I love shopping for cars. I wish there was a support group.

SW03ES · December 2, 2006

The Avalon isn't nearly as nice a car as the ES. Bigger, but not as nice.

As for the LS being twice as expensive but not twice as good, that depends. If you never drive an LS, you will always be thrilled with the ES. I am a die hard LS guy, the LS is the car that got me into Lexus as a brand. Even I forget how special the LS is now that I go so long without driving one. However, the instant I drive one I realize how much truly better it is than the ES on every level. Don't get me wrong, getting back into the ES is not a let down and it is a teriffic car, but its no LS.

The LS just does everything a little bit better. Not one shard of expense saving plastic, soft touch leather everywhere your hand touces, the open of every door and compartment so precisely timed, no harshness anywhere in anything it does, every movement and every sound is so perfectly fluid and hushed. There is literally nothing the car does that hasn't been engineered, tested, retested, and retested again. It truly is one of the finest, if not the finest, built car under $150,000 on the road today. They get better as they get older too, like a pair of really high quality shoes.

The ES is a great car, but its not a replacement for an LS in any category but thriftiness. As soon as I can get into an LS without feeling guilty about not using the capital to do things that are more important I will, without hesitation. As a matter of fact, I'd go buy one today without ever driving the competition because I know the competition can't come close for the money.

I think the best way to put it is, I could buy a new ES every 3-4 years and be happy for the most part. I could however buy one LS, and drive it for 10 years and still be happy...if that makes any sense? A 10 year old LS is still an LS, but a 10 year old ES is just an old car. So, in that mindset who'se to say the LS isn't more cost effective than the ES? Discuss ;)

I look at it like I look at suits (if you don't wear suits then this won't make any sense).

The ES is the Hart Shaffner & Marx of suits. Its stylish, looks expensive, its well made and it will do everything you want it to do and more, for $600. The value is unmistakable. The LS is more like a Hickey Freeman or Zegna suit. It looks similar, but all you have to do to tell the difference, and to understand why its $1500, is to put it on.

Buford · December 2, 2006

Good food for thought there!

It all depends on how much more my wife is impressed with it. Her sense of automotive appreciation can be strange at times. Sometimes things don't seem to register as much as they should. She did surprise me when we visited the Lexus dealership by being overtly impressed with the cars; so perhaps the LS will capture her fancy.

I love her to death, but I have often wondered if she would still be driving a bird crap covered Isuzu I-Mark if I hadn't regularly urged her to look at new cars over the past twenty years. :lol:

Lexusfreak · December 2, 2006

The Avalon isn't nearly as nice a car as the ES. Bigger, but not as nice.

Agreed, not to mention it still has a 5 speed automatic......even the Camry trumps it with it's 6 speed auto.

The Avalon seems to be redundant now.

:cheers:

Buford · December 2, 2006

The Avalon seems to be redundant now.

I agree that the Avalon is sort of an odd tweener model. My in-laws had one, and it was nice to compare the interior room to that of our Camry. But, my wife would probably not want one just because her mom had one (sort of a competition thing that's hard to describe). The exterior styling seems to get more and more odd. The one I recently saw did have a luxurious looking cockpit. But, when I look at the features listed on the web page, it doesn't seem to offer much. I think it would probably be a step down from what I enjoy in my Sienna XLE (option pkg #7).