2008 Lexus Ls Hybrid - Photos

[CanadaCraig]

Hi Guys!! :)

Here are three photos of the Lexus flagship for 2008. The Hybrid LS will be THE top-o-the-line Lexus model.

Not sure it looks any different than the regular all-new LS - but see for yourself.

Maybe it's just ME - but every time I see the all-new LS - I think BMW at BACK and VW Phaeton at front.

Still... a very nice looking car.

Craig!! :)

[rwallican]

Nasty!!!!!

[SW03ES]

The differences are the wheels, and the LS600 has the 6 projector HID lamps we saw in the concept car.

Very nice.

[CanadaCraig]

Hi Guys!! :)

According to AutoWeek.com

By this time next year, those looking for the ultimate in environmentally conscious excess will be sliding behind the wheel of the Lexus LS 600h-the hybrid version of the company's flagship luxury sedan. LS 600h combines the grunt of a 5.0-liter V8 and high-output electric motors to produce over 430 hp, yet it emits just one-fifth of the smog-forming emission of a conventional 5.0-liter V8, according to Lexus. That should give the LS 600h V12-like performance and best-in-class V8 fuel economy. Power is routed to all four wheels through a continuously variable transmission. Get in line now: If the RX 400h is of any indication, there should be a huge waiting list for the LS 600h by the time it hits dealerships.

Is that true?

Does the LS600h have a 5.0 litre V8?

Does it have ALL WHEEL DRIVE?

Have I been sleeping?!

Craig!! :)

[Ross W.]

Right on the money about the Phaeton / BMW resemblance. I don't like it. Maybe it'll grow on me, but I'm not worried. I can't afford one anyway! I still can't fathom why Bangle did the trunks on the BMW's that are out today like that. From the rear quarter view, they look like the !Removed! end of a duck to my jaundiced eye.

[SW03ES]

With the LS600h being $35,000 more than the RX400h, I wouldn't be too sure about those waiting lists LOL

[Rx330driver]

yes, the only difference, is the headlights, it looks a lot like that concept car. if its a 5.0 liter engine, why do they call it the 600h lol. i guess the electric part gives in another liter. and yes, it is "all wheel drive". as for 430 horsepwer, that is hardly a V12 engine...barely.

go to the lexus website, and on the right, the LS preview

does anyone know a price? cause right now, it doesnt seem affordable :(

[SW03ES]

The hybrid system's claim to fame isn't the horsepower, its the torque. I bet it will have as much toirque as a V12 and then some.

My guess for pricing is going to be $85k or so.

I'll stick with an LS460L thanks lol

[Rx330driver]

sigh, well it will have almost ever option as standard...but yes the ls460 seems like the choice here, around 60K base?

[SW03ES]

My guess is $56k base and the LWB model will start at 64k base.

My guess is a fully loaded UL LWB will be $75k or so with at least a $10k premium for the Hybrid.

[jainla]

There's a little video on the Japanese site as well; click movies and then click hybrid:

http://lexus.jp/ms/2006newyork/contents.html

The naming convention is consistent with earlier hybrid models; where the number is the equivalent of what a conventional gas engine would generate (i.e. rx400h performs like it had a 4.0 liter instead of the 3.3 its got).

Frankly I was expecting more than a 50 hp bump from the 4.6 liter....the 5.0 on its own could probably make about that much. The electric system will probably increase torque though...but it will have to cope with the AWD.

The Audi A8, 760il and Phantom all make around 450 hp from ~6 liters; so the only cars that the 600h is really trailing are the turbo Bentleys, S class and Maybach cars and presumably they will all cost at least another $50k. Who knows perhaps the 4 wheel drive and high-torque electric motor might give it a slight edge out of the gate? They didn't seem to release any performance numbers.

I notice there is still a tach....interesting; wonder if the engine runs more than other hybrids do? Perhaps just a preproduction model?

I think the allure of hybrid technology at this pricepoint remains to be seen. The RX400h seems to be doing well for its particular segment, but its and SUV and they have gotten negative press re: mileage as of late. Nobody seems to care that an Arnage gets 10 mpg in the city.

the GS450h doesn't seem to offer a huge increase in power or fuel economy over a standard GS 430; and if they put the 4.6 liter engine in there who knows how much value the hybrid really adds. At this level people can certainly afford another $5000-8000 for the hybrid and awd system but do they really want it?

I think the bigger change is the 2 wheelbase and 2 engine strategy; in this configuration the car range is offered the same way that the BMW 7 series, A8 and S Class is here. It hits a wider range of tastes and markets; and it looks like from a size and performance standpoint it can compete directly with the 750/760 and S550. The S600 and S63 will be faster; but the old S500's always sold much better (and in real world terms performed about the same) than their V12 counterparts.

I'm very curious as to how all this new tech is going to be priced. Read an article that in Europe Lexus's lower pricing than their competition has actually hurt their brand image. So in order to be truly competitive in Europe they would have to price the top model around $140k.

I don't know if people in the US will pay that much for a Lexus; even one as fantastic as this car looks like it will be. I'd figure anything more than about $90k and they're pushing their luck.

But people also said that nobody would buy a Lexus over a Mercedes in 1989.....

Doesn't mean I still don't want one though....

[93LSOwner]

WOW GREAT website. B)

[SW03ES]

Its probably not a tach, but an output meter like on the RX400h.

As for the HP, remember that the power benefit you get from a hybrid isn't in the HP, its in the torque.

[SW03ES]

Hot from the pressroom:

http://pressroom.toyota.com/Images?p=1&criteria=%2B08LS600h

I think I'll buy an LS460L and get those headlights ;)

It does seem to have a tach, My guess is this car never operates soley on the electric motor.

[jainla]

WOW GREAT website. B)

They have a couple other little videos under the 'Feel lexus' section on the main site; everything else I can't understand. I hope this is the direction the US site is going towards; I think it looks a little dated.

Oops...the safety video is in Japanese. If you want the english version it's here at the Geneva microsite:

http://lexus.jp/ms/2006geneve/

The features look really wild; it's like HAL driving the car. It also has a lane keeping assist system that nudges the car back into the lane on the freeway if you stray; hopefully only when the cruise is on!

It does seem to have a tach, My guess is this car never operates soley on the electric motor.

That's what I'm thinking....I bet starting and stopping that big V8 all the time will tax that electric motor; also it probably uses more gas to start and stop than the v6's so leaving it on more probably doesn't affect fuel economy that much. It probably runs like the Honda system where it augments the motor; allowing it to run more efficently in normal mode and then cranking it out in power mode.

I think I'll buy an LS460L and get those headlights

They seem to be the only major feature that's not available in some form on the gas-only car. They are cool.

The US microsite has also been updated with some hybrid specific information:

http://lexus.com/lsreveal

I thought I liked the car in silver but I think I like this new darker grey better...you can see more of the brightwork. Can't wait to see one in the flesh....hopefully they will be at TOL this year.

[branshew]

I don't think that they will have any problem selling all of the hybrids that they can produce. If a new LS was in my price range I would certainly pay the premium for the hybrid model solely for it's environmental impact (although the extra torque would be nice too).

Think about it like this: Most buyers of new flagship luxury sedans these days are baby boomers. Many were hippies and activists in the 60's. I would imagine that some would see it as a way of maintaining their activist pasts as well as being responsible stewards of the environment for their progeny.

Not to hijack this thread in any way, but conversation on the hybrid and comments of people not willing to step up and get the hybrid when it's available makes me reflect more about what I have been feeling lately...

(place soap box on ground, take step upward...)

As much as I hate to admit it I have been toying with the idea of getting rid of my LS in favor of something more environmentally friendly. I love the V8 power, smoothness, ride, etc., but I also drive 25K miles/year. Fuel economy is pretty good for a V8, but nowhere near a 4 cyl or hybrid, not to mention emissions. I don't know if I will go hybrid, turbodiesel or just 4 cyl gas, but any of the above would certainly be more efficient and environmentally responsible. (I like the thought of biodiesel and it's starting to pop up more around here).

It doesn't take a genius to realize that global warming isn't a myth. Just read the papers about the 5 fold increase in tornadoes in the midwest this year (unseasonably warm winter cited as the cause), rapid melting of the ice polar sheets, temp changes in the flow of the gulf stream, once tropical plant and animal species extending their ranges further northward, etc... Driving as much as I do - I would be a nearsighted ignoramus to claim that I am not making an impact in any of this (however small it may be in the whole scope of things). If everyone that drives as much as I do was willing to do something about it then we could probably make a larger difference, but it starts with one person at a time and I'll be that person sometime later this year.

If a hybrid is available in the model car you are looking at, why not buy it? If you're spending $70K - what's another $6K ($120/month)? You'll get most of that $6k back in a tax break from uncle sam anyway and you may be able to avoid the gas guzzler tax. If I was looking at the Accord, Civic, or Camry there would be no question as to whether or not to get the hybrid. I would never expect to recognize any return on the extra investment in terms of fuel savings over the lifetime of the car, but it is the responsible thing to do. (I won't even get into our dependence on foreign oil in this rant.)

(step down, pick up soap box, walk away)

[sv7887]

(place soap box on ground, take step upward...)

As much as I hate to admit it I have been toying with the idea of getting rid of my LS in favor of something more environmentally friendly.

If a hybrid is available in the model car you are looking at, why not buy it? If you're spending $70K - what's another $6K ($120/month)? You'll get most of that $6k back in a tax break from uncle sam anyway and you may be able to avoid the gas guzzler tax. If I was looking at the Accord, Civic, or Camry there would be no question as to whether or not to get the hybrid. I would never expect to recognize any return on the extra investment in terms of fuel savings over the lifetime of the car, but it is the responsible thing to do. (I won't even get into our dependence on foreign oil in this rant.)

(step down, pick up soap box, walk away)

Why don't you get a newer LS430? That car has pretty good gas mileage compared to your original LS. Plus it has ULEV Emissions status. It's about as environmentally friendly as a Lux car can get. The LS series is one of the few High End cars that DOESN'T get hit with the Gas Guzzler tax. It's pretty efficient to begin with. The highway mileage on the LS430 we traded was around 25 MPG.

You'll never convince me to get a hybrid. I believe Diesel is a far better implementation than the Hybrid setup. Look at Europe, you'd be hard pressed to find a Prius there. Have you looked at the MB E320 CDI?

Yes, it's a Mercedes (Boo Hiss!! lol!) but that model gives 37 MPG on the highway, tons of torque and is faster than the gas powered model. Looking at the Hybrids I see the mileage improvement is not even close to being worth the premium. A Normally LS460 is fairly efficient at mid 20's MPG and I'm sure it will have low emissions.

Toyota was smart and cashed in on the Hybrid s*x appeal. But if you look at it closely, it's not what it's cranked out to be.

1) It adds needless complexity to the car. My best friend works for AAA and curses every time someone calls him to jump start one. They are hard to work on.

2) They take up trunk space. Not much of an environmental issue, but a convenience one.

3) You still have to change the batteries at some point. Disposal is a big Environmental problem

4) Creation of those batteries required Energy, and surely produced harmful byproducts. Essentially the net gain is nil, and in fact you might be making things worse by creating a disposal problem.

5) They are far more expensive to repair. You can't that get fixed at the local garage that's for sure.

6) The mileage benefits are exaggerated. Battery performance does vary according to temperature. A quick search on Google confirms people are not getting EPA estimates.

It's no surprise that they haven't been widely adopted outside of the USA. Right now Hybrid is the "in" thing with the so called Hollywood/hippy/environmental folk.

I don't dismiss the potential of hybrids, and I do think they are here to stay. I'd like to see a Diesel-Hybrid combination.

While the LS600h is a technical marvel, you aren't going to convince me to pay the premium. I'd take the normally aspirated LS460 L any day of the week!

-Sam

[SW03ES]

Here's my take on it.

We have a Prius, and we love it. Its different, cool, has a lot of technology for the money, has a lot of utility for the money (good in the snow, lots of cargo room), and its not an economy car like anything else for the money would have been.

Now, the way my fiance drives (she works 3 miles from home and makes really only short trips) she gets 38MPG tops. Now, thats hardly stellar and she could get that with something like a Corolla, but we don't care because the Corolla isn't as cool a car as the Prius.

Now, I've driven the RX400h. I would buy an RX400h simply because of the driving experience with the CVT being so smooth and seamless. But, when you get to something like the LS600h, it has a bigger V8 than the non-hybrid version! If the engine always runs and it never runs on battery alone, then what is the emissions savings of the hybrid motor? The only reason the LS600h is a hybrid is to:

Cash in on the cache of it being a "hybrid"

And to get torque from the electric motor

Thats all.

[RFeldes]

Hold onto your Wallets!!!!

The New York Times says:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/12/automobi...r=1&oref=slogin

[branshew]

But, when you get to something like the LS600h, it has a bigger V8 than the non-hybrid version!

I didn't realize that (although I haven't looked at the specs in that much detail yet). I wonder what the MPG specs are in the hybrid - that would give you some indication of how the gas/electric motor combo will operate.

I guess if you're comparing it to something that it was really supposed to compete against like the S600 or BMW's V12 (is that the 760 now or still the 750?) it should come out on top in terms of fuel economy and lower emissions, but if you're shopping in that league of cars then you obviously don't give a rat's @$$ about fuel economy, the environment, OPEC or any of it.

My coments are probably more geared to the middle-market segment anyhow.

SV7887 - I tend to agre that diesel is really the way to go. A diesel electric hybrid would give you the best of both worlds and MB's diesel engines are hands down the best, BUT their new ones aren't spec'd for biodiesel yet (unfortunately neither are VW's new PD diesels). I think that it has something to do with the extremely high pressure in which the fuel is injected into the cylinders (up to 29,000 PSI). Besides I would have a hard time buying a new Benz given all of their recent reliability issues. (I know VW's not too much better, but at least you're not paying the premium for one.)

[SW03ES]

I don't believe $125k for a second. $100k maybe but the difference won't be that much. In order for it to fit into Lexus business model it still needs to be a significant value over a BMW or a Mercedes.

I think the MPG is in the low 20s...

[Rx330driver]

those new headlights on the LS460H L are the worlds first LED headlights...pretty cool.

Even if it doesnt get the high milage people want...its still cool to have a hybrid...and 430 hp. *drool* lol. but once that car goes into the 80K range and beyond...i might as well buy the new s class or something.

I love the way this car looks, its brilliant as well...but the price is scaring me. Go to the auto show live page on the lexus site and you can watch it being anounced...

the new system that is much like the distronic on the mercedes flagship has a camera that watches the driver...talk about scary, lol

[SW03ES]

Keep in mind that $90k gets you a fairly base S550. If 90k got you everything you got in a $130k S650 V12 and the only V8 hybrid availiable would you still buy an ordinary old S550?

[jainla]

I don't think it will be $125k. They said at the Jan launch they said 'we will kill them on price.' In the US the Lexus brand still does not quite have the aura of the German brands(despite being measurably better cars); and value for money is still a part of the Lexus brand.

Once you hit $125k people are going to buy whatever car they feel like buying; at that level you are approaching the S600/S65, 760iL, and real performance cars such as any number of Porsches and for not much more certain Aston Martins and even a year old Ferrari.

At this price point; people are willing to pay more for 2 things; performance and prestige. Witness why the S600 is priced so much more than the S500; for those buyers the exclusivity of the V12 and the increased power make it a compelling proposition. Other than the engine; some trim bits and suspension tuning (and probably tires and wheels) the S600 is quite similar to a fully loaded S500 -same shape, same size, same options, etc etc..

It begs the question do buyers at this level consider the hybrid powertrain by itself a prestige item? I'm sure some do; but those who put environmental concerns at the top of their list aren't going to buy this car. Witness the rash of celebrities buying the Prius, when they could have had a Geo Metro or a diesel Golf which would be about as efficient. That's why the Prius works; the whole car screams hybrid; which for some is a prestige item.

In this price class I'm not so sure that 'hybrid' by itself has the same allure; I think the perception is that saving fuel always seems to be a concern of people that can't afford it (get off the soap box we're talking about our theoretical rich person here :whistles: ). If people really want an obvious hybrid they'll by a car like this AND a Prius.

I think Toyota wanted to play in the big leagues and compete directly with Mercedes and BMW's top models. In order to do that they needed 2 things; a long-wheelbase option and a performance option. I would guess that they chose a hybrid over a V12 because they could use basically the same engine (easier to develop and manufacture) and hybrid technology (which they already have a substantial investment in). They are also very good at it; and it obviously is more efficient and makes it easier to meet emissions, CAFE, etc etc. There is also the favorable publicity as well as the 'halo' effect it would have on other Lexus and Toyota hybrid models, and there is a certain prestige with high technology; which they certainly seem to be pushing as a major selling point for this car.

The reason it has a 5.0 liter engine is because this car is biased towards performance. Stopping and starting the LS requires more energy than a GS or Prius because it weighs more; yet I bet the battery pack can't be made substantially bigger because of space expectations and weight. So it won't last as long in normal driving as the packs in the smaller cars do. That means in percentages it can do less of the work.

The thing that cracks me up about hybrid owners (at least in Socal) is that they barrel along at 85 mph in the fast lane up the steep Sepulveda pass. Thing is the Prius has a pretty small engine, so the battery provides a lot of the juice. Once you run through the battery pack, which driving at high speeds or up hills does, the whole system becomes literally dead weight. So you're burning much more fuel than you were before because the the engine is working harder, and it's now moving the car and charging the battery.

The LS has to perform; people are paying for it to perform; so its got a bigger engine to haul around the hybrid system when it drains. The hybrid system probably adds just enough performance to get it into V12 territory, and the efficiency is a side benefit. Most of the benefit from hybrid technology comes from stop and go driving, so the hybrid system is probably geared to engage during that kind of operation only; and there drivers will see substantial benefits.

If they offered a V12 option with the same performance I bet the car would sell just as well.

[Rx330driver]

Im really happy for lexus and all, but i was disapointed in one thing. I always said that lexus never made cars with less options that people could tell from the outside...well at least only small details. As for the new IS sedans and this new LS, they are starting to show people who has the better IS and so forth. The new IS now says AWD on the back next to the is250 etc badge, when we used to drive RX330's that do not even say that...and i liked that. The new LS now has the L on the long wheel base model....and now i realize this has nothing to do with the new LS so...

yes, to SWOES, i might choose the S class because of the prestige...but the LS is a fair contender. I just needa get the points on my Lexus Visa Card so i can get 10 percent off. lol :D