Transmission Problems/failures with RX300 awd/fwd

[wwest]

[My belief, based on 33 years of Toyota specific automatic transmission experience, is that failures would be zero if owners drained and refilled the 4.9 quarts of fluid in the transmission oil pan and differential every 15,000 miles AND removed the transmission oil pan every 2nd or 3rd pan drain to check the filter screen for signs of clogging.

Seriously though,

15,000 is NOT a normal fluid change interval for an auto tranny of any manufacture. I certainly havent changed mine that often and would never expect to have to on any vehicle I owned. That is essentially the same as saying you should change your oil every 1500 miles! Thats not nomal, it may be what needs to be done (I doubt that too) but its not what would be expected of a vehicle of this caliber and cost.

Assuming the factory recommendations for transaxle servicing is followed religiously is there any foundation for a belief that not ALL RX300 transaxles will fail prematurely?

Why would the majority of owners have reason to disbelieve the scheduled maintenance recommendations provided my the actual designers and manufacturers of these vehicles? Has anyone of us seen a TSB or any notification by/from the manufacturer indicating that the recommendations printed in EVERY owners manual is not correct.

I fully agree that regular flush and refills of the ATF will help to extend the useful life of these transaxles. Whatever the contamination and cause of burned ATF is it will help to extend the usefull life of the transaxle to remove burned and contaminated ATF.

Personally I find it somewhat interesting that with my ATF I had no indication of contamination or a burned odor until about 38,000 miles. It looked, seemed to me that between just two engine oil changes, typically every 4,000 to 5,000 miles, my ATF went from "pristine", clear and pink, to dark and odorous.

Did the molecular structure of the ATF suddenly change, say due to heat, and then the oil itself acted as a catalyst that caused a higher wear rate of the clutch frictional surfaces?

[lenore]

funny you mentioned the rapid deterioration of the fluid in a few thousands of miles after checking it often. I too experience the same rapid breakdown. It is not normal and Lexus will not step up to the plate. That is the truth and I hate having to change the fluid every 15k or less when any other car I have ever owned did not require this.

[Ericok]

funny you mentioned the rapid deterioration of the fluid in a few thousands of miles after checking it often. I too experience the same rapid breakdown. It is not normal and Lexus will not step up to the plate. That is the truth and I hate having to change the fluid every 15k or less when any other car I have ever owned did not require this.

If the RX transmission is so bad, why don't Toyota Highlander owners have the same complaint? It's the SAME engine and drivetrain. Search the Highlander forums and you'll find few, if any, transmission complaints. Its already been posted that Consumers Reports shows no transmission issues either. If anyone were to highlight a problem with the RX unit it would be CR. The only other comment is that if, and when, transmission service is performed you MUST use the Toyota Type IV transmission fluid.

[lenore]

Yes i am very aware of the fluid type, When I first purchased Type IV the fluid was in gallon containers only and I had to buy two. I did change the fluid religously at 30k intervals when the book only said 60k if severe use was in affect. Give me a break, the transaxle or computer sucks.......

[bluestu]

If the RX transmission is so bad, why don't Toyota Highlander owners have the same complaint? It's the SAME engine and drivetrain. Search the Highlander forums and you'll find few, if any, transmission complaints. Its already been posted that Consumers Reports shows no transmission issues either. If anyone were to highlight a problem with the RX unit it would be CR. The only other comment is that if, and when, transmission service is performed you MUST use the Toyota Type IV transmission fluid.

Maybe there is a curse on the RX300 transmission, cast by the Toyota Highlander owners because they are jealous that the RX looks so much better??? As we've already concluded, there are just a few people on this forum that have had premature transmission failures for whatever reasons. Others have experienced transmission failures because they never had their transmission serviced, which is typical of most drivers.

I prefer flushing the entire transaxle every 15k to ensure that the fluid stays clean. The only problem is finding a shop that has a flush machine that uses only synthetic fluid that meets Toyota's specs.. Luckily, I found one.

[Rx330driver]

okay we can all admit pretty much that since this keeps coming up, there has to be some sort of problem. BUT!!!, i owned that car, a 1999 rx300, AWD, up to 90,000 before trading it in, and i had no such problems. keep in mind, im not a diy guy, and i went in to the dealership ever 5K like it says to do. Now im not saying that doing things urself is bad, but common, it has to be better...even a little? So yes, there is a problem, but i dont think lexus should be sending out recalls now for a car they dont make anymore. THey would lose a lot of money for such an old car...not worth it.

[tmastres]

If the RX transmission is so bad, why don't Toyota Highlander owners have the same complaint? It's the SAME engine and drivetrain. Search the Highlander forums and you'll find few, if any, transmission complaints. Its already been posted that Consumers Reports shows no transmission issues either. If anyone were to highlight a problem with the RX unit it would be CR. The only other comment is that if, and when, transmission service is performed you MUST use the Toyota Type IV transmission fluid.

Actually I belive the transmission issue is with 99/00 and maybe 01? models. I think the highlander came out in 02/03 after the problem (whatever it was) was "fixed"

[RX in NC]

This debate can go on forever (or at least until the very last RX300 left on the planet is broken down and scrapped). But whether or not you've experienced transmission failure in your particular RX, one thing is certain: from both an engineering and a consumer satisfaction standpoint, it is absolutely inexcuseable for ANY major automobile manufacturer to build and sell a supposedly high-end all-wheel-drive SUV in this day and age that requires a transmission fluid change every 15,000 miles in order to possibly increase the chances of keeping it from failing, especially when the factory-issued owners manual instructs the consumer not to change the fluid unless the vehicle is routinely operated under very severe conditions. That has all the justifications for a recall, but we're not going to see Lexus step up to the plate here unless a consumer is killed as a result of his/her transmission failing while pulling out to pass on a freeway somewhere and is unfortunately run over by an eighteen-wheeler barrelling along in the passing lane behind them.

I've adapted to what I need to do to keep my wife's RX300 roadworthy as much as possible and I've forced Lexus over the years to fix the damn thing on their dime every time a known problem component has broken down. That's why we've kept it. But I still look forward to shoving this albatross off a cliff in the Blue Ridge Mountains when its time finally comes....

[zeusigchi]

I just got my 01 RX used and hadnt noticed anything until today when I didnt let the car warm up, I noticed that the tranny kind of downshifted hard and the RPM's rode higher since the engine was cold.

Anything to worry about??

[RX in NC]

Normal behavior. These transmissions must warm up to operating temperatures before they will shift properly. That usually means a couple of minutes, depending upon the outdoor temperature and your driving style. For best results, baby your transmission as much as possible. No hard starts or stops. These RX300s are not sports cars - far from it. They are overweight and underpowered. Drive carefully.

[wwest]

How can we ever be sure, certain, that the RX300 and Highlander share the same transaxle control firmware?

And I'm quite sure, very sure, that while my 2001 AWD RX300 has a viscous clutch the operation of the AWD Trac's brake modulation method of engine torque apportioning system is a close match to that in the RX330 with no viscous clutch.

The viscous clutch in my 2001 AWD RX300 never comes into "play" since the traction control system instantly reacts to front wheelspin/slip long before the VC can be heated to the point of stiffening, "locking" the center differential.

Can the same be said of the 2001(2,3) AWD Highlander?

And ALL RX300s have automatic climate controls and V6 engines. I am certain the the V6 would result in consistently higher radiator temperatures and I would also suspect that automatic climate controls would also result in consistently higher radiator temperatures.

Absent the ATF cooling heat exchanger with the towing package the primary cooling method for the ATF is via exposure to the engine coolant.

And don't forget that the RX300 has an ATF overtemp diagnostic light/indication and the intructions should it illuminate are to pull over immediately to allow the ATF time to cool. Obviously Lexus had some reason, foundation, for suspecting the ATF would/might inadvertently overheat.

Why? In just what circumstance?

I don't remember ever having any vehicle before with this feature, and I don't know of any other current models, excluding some heavy duty trucks that have this "feature".

I just got my 01 RX used and hadnt noticed anything until today when I didnt let the car warm up, I noticed that the tranny kind of downshifted hard and the RPM's rode higher since the engine was cold.

Anything to worry about??

The transaxle control firmware will not shift into O/D until the ATF temperature rises to some preset level, about 2 to 3 miles in the summertime and a tad farther during the winter having been in a reasonable warm garaqe overnight. No O/D will result in significantly higher engine RPM. The hard shifting when cold is probably the result of the ATF viscosity still being a nlittle closer to "syrup" prior to warming to operational temperature.

[wwest]

If the RX transmission is so bad, why don't Toyota Highlander owners have the same complaint? It's the SAME engine and drivetrain. Search the Highlander forums and you'll find few, if any, transmission complaints. Its already been posted that Consumers Reports shows no transmission issues either. If anyone were to highlight a problem with the RX unit it would be CR. The only other comment is that if, and when, transmission service is performed you MUST use the Toyota Type IV transmission fluid.

Actually I belive the transmission issue is with 99/00 and maybe 01? models. I think the highlander came out in 02/03 after the problem (whatever it was) was "fixed"

Hmmm....

Good point, really good point.

As most of you likely know already, I have always questioned the functionality of the VC, Viscous Clutch, in my 2001 AWD RX300. Disregarding the fact that the Trac over-rides it anyway, seemingly it NEVER stiffens up sufficiently enough to couple any operational level of engine torque to the rear wheels.

Suppose, just suppose, that back in the early model years of the AWD version of the RX300, it was discovered that the heating level that the VC had to rise to in order to become operational, fully "functional", was high enough to cause the ATF in the nearby, adjacent, center and front diff'l case to rise above a safe level insofar as 100,000 mile ATF duriability is concerned. And let's take one more step and assume that the ATF in the diff'l is there only for lubrication capability and thus the engineers saw no need to have it readily circulate into, and through, the transaxle itself and thereby also through the transaxle's ATF cooling system.

Now let's assume, if you will, that somewhere about or during the initial RX production run some Toyota engineer happened across and read the Sierra Reseach article regarding the fact that adopting the new shifting procedures that would likely result in a 9.8% improvement in FE.

By the time my 2001 went into production they knew that one of the the ways they could alleviate the premature transaxle failures was to "lobotmize" the VC. Who would know? Who, in the entire AWD RX300 owner community, would become suspecious enough about the possible lack of functionality of the VC that it would actually be tested, even on a 4 wheel dyno.

Additionally, who would really care, provided the Trac system firmware were judiously used to "hide" the fact that the VC never became truly functional?

And there, friends and neighbors and fellow AWD RX300 owners, is the state of the state insofar as the 2001 RX300 model year is concerned.

Now I need to go off and research techinfo.toyota.com to see when that ATF overtemp detection was first implemented. Any bets?

[lenore]

So the RX300 without trac such as the 99 RXAWD are just doomed. Sure would be nice if all of this collective information could be presented to Lexus of America to see if an upgrade could be done cheaply to alleviate the failure rates. Just my two cents.

[monarch]

Now I need to go off and research techinfo.toyota.com to see when that ATF overtemp detection was first implemented. Any bets?

Many Toyota 4WD/AWD vehicles have had ATF overtemp detection lights on the instrument panel since the late 1980's.

[wwest]

Now I need to go off and research techinfo.toyota.com to see when that ATF overtemp detection was first implemented. Any bets?

Many Toyota 4WD/AWD vehicles have had ATF overtemp detection lights on the instrument panel since the late 1980's.

Sorry, it was really thoughtless of me not to exclude truck "class" SUVs since many of those are so often used to tow heavy loads or operate semi-continously in off-road conditions at low speeds and high torque loads, climbing boulders and hillsides, steep hillsides.

Absent some sort of marginal design issue that needed to be addressed in this manner I don't see the need for protecting the RX's ATF from overheating.

[zeusigchi]

Thanks for input guys....was a little warmer this morning (45) so took off as soon as i started the car and thats when it happened....I will be sure to let her sit a little longer

[monarch]

So the RX300 without trac such as the 99 RXAWD are just doomed.

Doomed to run hot under some driving circumstances. But the owner can at least partially mitigate the potential consequences by changing the fluid more frequently and checking the transmission filter screen for blockages every 2nd or 3rd fluid change. By contrast, planned obsolesence is engineered into most American car automatics built since the late 1970's (via inferior quality internal seals, inferior clutch friction material, inferior gear metalurgy, etc.) and no amount of fluid or filter changing will enable them to last 300,000+ miles like all Toyota automatics can.

[RX in NC]

Monarch,

As usual, you're full of it. "All" Toyota automatic transmissions are NOT going to last 300,000 miles as has been so evident with the RX series even when fluid changes and screen cleanings are done at insanely frequent intervals. Your credibility regarding this subject is long since shot, buddy....

[Ericok]

Now I need to go off and research techinfo.toyota.com to see when that ATF overtemp detection was first implemented. Any bets?

Many Toyota 4WD/AWD vehicles have had ATF overtemp detection lights on the instrument panel since the late 1980's.

My 1991 Toyota Previa AWD (which does have 225,000 miles on it) has an ATF overtemp light (primarily useful when towing) - the same reason the RX has one. The Previa also will not shift into overdrive until the coolant warms up - a standard Toyota feature.

[Ericok]

If the RX transmission is so bad, why don't Toyota Highlander owners have the same complaint? It's the SAME engine and drivetrain. Search the Highlander forums and you'll find few, if any, transmission complaints. Its already been posted that Consumers Reports shows no transmission issues either. If anyone were to highlight a problem with the RX unit it would be CR. The only other comment is that if, and when, transmission service is performed you MUST use the Toyota Type IV transmission fluid.

Actually I belive the transmission issue is with 99/00 and maybe 01? models. I think the highlander came out in 02/03 after the problem (whatever it was) was "fixed"

The U140F AWD transaxle was used in the 98-03 RX300, the 01-03 Highlander and the 00-03 RAV4. The U140E (the two wheel drive unit) was used in the 98-03 RX300, 01-03 Highlander, 99-01 ES300 and the 2002 Camry.

[lenore]

Well something has to be different, the computer software for the shift points or the inputs to control the shifting must be different. It still is a problem on the RX. It sucks not knowing why there was some improvement that Lexus wont devulge to improve reliability and fix customer satisfaction. Goes back to they dont care and aren't willing to step up to the plate and admit a flaw in their system. Great car company. I just wish I could see the day that they are forced to fix the damn problem.

[lenore]

If anybody is interested you can file a complaint with the NHTS at www.nhtsa.dot.gov about your premature transmission failures. I suggest you use the words unsafe and dangerous to the operation of the vehicle in your complaint. Maybe enough complaints will get Lexus of their high horse.

[Rx330driver]

for the last time, they arent gonna spend the money to fix a car they dont make without the problem risking somebody's life. thats just the facts. Okay, so maybe 2 outa 5 people have transmission problems...too bad for them is probably what they're thinking. I owned a '99 awd rx300, and no transmission problems before i traded it in at 90K miles. They dont make the car anymore, so they arent gonna use their mechanics to design another transmission for that car.

[tmhtmh]

It's so absurd to need 15k tranny fluid changes in a modern auto that it's laughable. Toyota choose to let their reputation as a maker of durable vehicles get them through this and it worked for them! This has not hurt their reputation so they won't do anything about it. So what if the current owners of these have a problem, it's the overall public perseption they care about.

I have discussed using Auto-RX and Transmatic addatives in this forum to address the issues we KNOW could cost thosands of $ to fix. I just started an Auto-RX cleanup of my engine yesterday. I'll likelt do the tranny next. I'm not sure if this is a "cure", but I won't just sit back and wait for a KNOWN problem to occur.

The original owner of my 2002 RX300 never changed the tranny fluid and he was anal about service! He just never was told of the issue so he did what the manual said. Fortunately, it's a FWD not AWD because I checked the forums before buying and choose to avoid the AWD issues. FWD is just fine in my opinion as AWD is mostly a marketing ploy. AWD is great in "stuck" condition, like deep mud or very deep snow. I don't go off-road and the plows take care of the deep snow.

Anyways, I'm posting regarding the Auto-RX and Transmatic products because I did a ton of on-line research into the sludge and tranny issues and those two seemed to actually work based on USER reports in other forums. I sure wouldn't sit and wait with a RX300 over 50k miles!

[Ericok]

It's so absurd to need 15k tranny fluid changes in a modern auto that it's laughable.

Toyota doesn't require 15K tranny fluid changes, only people in this fourm suggest it.