Who Wants A Turbo Option

[Toysrme]

Who is interested in turbocharging, what kind of power level, and what price are you willing to pay.

Be serious.

[91L3xus]

Eh...

How much would a light pressure turbo run me? Not anything that would add more than 75 horsepower? 2vz, although I know right there what my answer will be...lol.

[steviej]

On my 2002 1MZFE, the price I would be willing to pay would be directly proportional to the guarantee/warranty that comes with the turbo unit and said warranty would have to cover any problems that may develop in other areas of the powertrain and ECU systems due to the application of the turbo.

steviej

[MNJack]

Who is interested in turbocharging, what kind of power level, and what price are you willing to pay.

Be serious.

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I was hoping for a supercharger, especially since they make one for the Camry 6 cylinder engine which I thought was identical to the Lexus engine, but I was told it wouldn't work on my es300. :(

[Toysrme]

MNJack the TRD supercharger will work on any Toyota 3.0L v6. PM me and we'll discuss it.

[Lexusfreak]

On my 2002 1MZFE, the price I would be willing to pay would be directly proportional to the guarantee/warranty that comes with the turbo unit and said warranty would have to cover any problems that may develop in other areas of the powertrain and ECU systems due to the application of the turbo.

steviej

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I'll second that. B)

[andrecat112]

On my 2002 1MZFE, the price I would be willing to pay would be directly proportional to the guarantee/warranty that comes with the turbo unit and said warranty would have to cover any problems that may develop in other areas of the powertrain and ECU systems due to the application of the turbo.

steviej

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I concur

but i would also like to know about how the supercharger would work

[Toysrme]

How turbochargers work.

How supechargers work Part I, Part II.

[Lexusfreak]

And what about steviej's comments Toys?

[Toysrme]

Like I said, I'm just wanting to know who would be intrested & under what conditions.

[SnesleyWipes]

Like I said, I'm just wanting to know who would be intrested & under what conditions.

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Would a supercharger make my car louder? How much power will I gain and will I lose gas mileage?

Thx,

Snes

[Toysrme]

How loud it becomes, that's dependant on what you do. A turbo will muffle the exhaust about the same as a small resonator will. Unless someone were to put a really quiet exhaust on, and hook the compressor inlet back up to something like the stock intake silencer - you can hear any of them.

AFA how loud it is, that depends on the exhaust behind it. If it's open, it will be loud like my car was on the I put up when i first had it running without any exhaust. Turbine side, Compressor side If it has an exhaust behind it, exhaust wise, it will sound the same as if the turbo wasn't there - but softer. (you will hear the turbine spinning through the exhaust note, but most of the turbo noise comes from the compressor, where the air tends to shear at high velocity (That's the whine), and there isn't as much sound muffling)

With a turbo, you really only hear them when they are spinning fast, be that spooling up to boost, during boost, or spooling back down. Tho not the norm, it's not uncommon for a large turbo not even to spin with an engine idling. This happens frequently when you get into rebuilt engine's running larger turbochargers than would normally used.

In general, superchargers tend to be loud and whiney most of the time. Some people are annoyed by them, some people love it. Personally... I get annoyed by the many loud supercharged F-bodies aroud the area when they pull next to you at a stoplight. Then again, if I had a supercharged F-body, I'm sure I could tolerate the noise without a problem! LoL!

Again, we're talking turbochargers, not superchargers.

When I asked about the powerband, I should have explained myself more. I'm just curious on what people expect. As far as "what would the powerband be" isn't an answerable question.

The powerband would be whatever we want to make it.

Going from a small turbocharger that runs out of boost on the stock engine at high rpm, and an engine that could split the blocks in half isn't really much of a difference. It's simply putting a different turbocharger on and changing that 10% of the piping that's needed to hook it up.

So... If you want 250, 280, 300, 450, 2000bhp, it's not really a problem - it's simply the cost of buying a turbo + fueling to support the power goal.

[takeaflyingleap]

I am very interested in a turbo setup. I have limited funds at this time however. I had been considering a junk yard turbo. Finding something with a similar displacement, compression, ect... I have the fabrication skills to modify the exhaust and intake to accommodate the turbo. I am just a little fuzzy on the physics.

Neil

[Toysrme]

Only things similar are going to be 300z's, 3000gt's, the last two gen supras, turbo buicks.

What are you shady on? We can fix that! ;)

[takeaflyingleap]

This is how I was thinking about installing the turbo on my car. I was thinking that if I blocked off the exhaust outlet on the rear manifold and weld a Y pipe into the crossover pipe and used that to supply the exhaust to the turbo. Installing a remote oil filter/cooler and taping into the return line for the turbo oil supply. I am still looking into intercooler options and sizes, so I will consider mounting options and supply routing after I decide.

What I need to know is exactly how the blow off valve and waste gate works and where the best location for them is. What I believe is that the blow off valve releases excess boost and the waste gate releases excess exhaust gas. What I’m fuzzy on is the waste gate and blow off valve settings.

[Toysrme]

Wastegates are set by spring tension, unless they are electronic boost control (EBC). Always size your spring low - as a manual boost controller (MBC) can bring pressure back up to whatever. Where people with cheap MBC's get in trouble is setting the psi to high, or running more power (exhaust) than the wastegate can divert both lead to more boost than you want.

Blow-off-valves work in much the same way. Positioned upstream of the throttle plate & downstream of your metering device & turbo. When the throttle closes, the airflow backs up, builds & returns to the turbo. Quickly slowing it down (Sending it into surge). While it has always been argued if it affects logevity, yes it does. It gives premature wear on perfect bearings. Then you wind up with a turbo that "flutters" because the bearings are worn & eventually the turbine, or compressor wheel smacks the housing, which leads to bearing failure & a turbo that doesn't work.

Building a new y-pipe from the old one would be the best bet. Especially how *BLEEP*ty the OEM ones are. You wouldn't want to power a turbo through it. Take the OEM one down & cut the flanges & large flexpipe off. They're a perfect fit for 2" pipes coming off the manifold. Then you can merge them to whatever you want.

The main problem is the Automatic Transmission. The pan & housing for it are monstrously large. 2" up pipes & 2" down pipes are the max that will fit around it, & even then not in many places.

Spend time figuring out what you're going to do about the transmission. You'll burn every clutch in it up quickly after 320bhp. Even with an aux cooler & valve body upgrade it won't survive more than a few months @ 280whp & will last a singe pull between 300-320whp.

Grab a water cooled turbo if at all possible. Grab some 5/16" line to run coolant from the egr cooler/throttlebody warmer & divert it to the turbo.

Oil, fluids & charge pipe are normally easily delt with after the exhaust & turbo are in the car.

[91L3xus]

This is how I was thinking about installing the turbo on my car.  I was thinking that if I blocked off the exhaust outlet on the rear manifold and weld a Y pipe into the crossover pipe and used that to supply the exhaust to the turbo.  Installing a remote oil filter/cooler and taping into the return line for the turbo oil supply.  I am still looking into intercooler options and sizes, so I will consider mounting options and supply routing after I decide. 

What I need to know is exactly how the blow off valve and waste gate works and where the best location for them is.  What I believe is that the blow off valve releases excess boost and the waste gate releases excess exhaust gas.  What I’m fuzzy on is the waste gate and blow off valve settings.

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Flying leap, if you're successful with this could you let me know what you use for parts and other mounting instructions? I have an ES250 also and am hoping to get a little more out of it than it makes now. Thanks.

Can I PM you and we'll talk? B)

[takeaflyingleap]

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Flying leap, if you're successful with this could you let me know what you use for parts and other mounting instructions? I have an ES250 also and am hoping to get a little more out of it than it makes now. Thanks.

Can I PM you and we'll talk? B)

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PM any time. It may be a little while before I can do this. I am going to get a junk yard transaxle and install it for now. While I have the orignal transaxle out I plan on rebuilding it with some upgrades.

[takeaflyingleap]

Toysrme, You are talking some very high bhp's. Is the 2.5 really capable of reaching over 300bhp by simply adding a turbo? I was thinking that if I was going to hit those numbers I would have to rebuild the engine with forged pistons, shotpiened rods ect... I have already ported and polished the intake and heads with better results than I had hoped for. Also will I need higher flow injectors? Oh, another question, what exactly is the difference between the 2.5 and the 3.0? I know what the obvious differences are I was wondering about piston dia. and stroke.

[Toysrme]

Everything inside the 2vz is smaller & not built as well. Still has the forged crank, but, the parts are close in style to 3s-fe/5s-fe construction.

I'm pretty sure it could reach 300-350 with careful tuning. See my post on CL, or here about 2vz / 3vz turbo choices & math (or whatever) to help pick a turbo. There are a bunch of good turbos for the 2vz-fe as you're simply re-using the larger i4 turbos. The spool rate of it oughta be simply silly for the power gain.

The piping for a 2vz-fe couldn't possibly be easier. Relocate your oil filter & sling a turbo off the front bank exhaust manifold. You could make 220 at the drop of a hat. Tho I would be weary of the stock fuel pump, you wouldn't really need to upgrade the stock fuel system for 210-220. Richen the AFM cog up a bit & I would buy another cold-start injector & a boost pressure switch. Have the BPS turn on at say 2psi - might as well splice it onto the stock CSI also. That'd be another 30-60bhp worth of fuel for spending $15. I wouldn't rely on it for fueling, but it'd be a great transition richening aid when going into boost & keep it safe from overboost & the like.

You could keep that, upgrade the fuel pump, fuel pressure & add more injectors, or upgrade them for more power.

A 2800lb gen2 camry / es250 would haul pretty good at 220. It'd beat the crap out of any of the 3.0L+'s down the 1/4 mile even with an M/T. You'd be in the mid 14s range 95mph+. Oughta be able to do 140. 250bhp would be low 14's, maybe cracking into 13.9. 300 would be crazy. Low-mid 13's.

gen2 camrys make killer sleeper cars with 3s-gte swaps. The 2vz-fe would be even better at the stock power levels

[takeaflyingleap]

The reason I was asking about the differences between the 2.5 and the 3.0 is I was wondering about parts interchangeability. Can parts be interchanged between the two? Can I do a complete 2.5 to 3.0 swap? My other hobby is Jeeps. Right now I am working on a “stroker” motor. Basically you take a 242 ci (4.0L) engine and add an older 252 ci (4.2L) crank and bore the cylinders .60 over and you get a 10:1 CR 4.7L “stroker” motor. This normally aspirated engine creates about 380 bhp. Can anything similar be done with the 2.5? Or can I, would I, be better off swapping in a 3.0. I would still like to turbo charge if I do a 3.0 swap. Power hungry I guess

[Toysrme]

No you can't swap any of your parts to anything else. Yes it's possible in theory to do a 2vz to 3vz-fe swap. You'll need all the electronics to do so & you may need front & rear engine mounts, maybe not. Noone has done it so far, but a few Camry owners want to.

You can bore & stroke anything. Good luck. Custom stroking is gonna run about $2000 for the crank, rod & etc on a v6.

The rumor from 1 engine bulder was that you could get 3.6L out of a 3vz-fe, but you wouldn't want to stroke more than 3.4-3.5L.

If I had a 2vz-fe, I would turbo it & call it a day. It's just too easy of a process to argue with. If 200-220bhp off the stock system + turbo wasn't good enough, upgrade the stock fueling system (New injectors, or add them) & shoot for 250-300+.

[takeaflyingleap]

Just looking for options. I like the turbo idea.

[takeaflyingleap]

toysrme,

I was looking on ebay at all of the turbos. I would like to know how to decipher the specifications. What am I looking for. What about twin turbos? Any other information on choosing the correct turbo(s) would be great.

Thanks,

Neil

[Toysrme]

I wouldn't know about twins on a 2vz-fe.

I can tell you that it's almost infeaseible on every other engine. There is simply not enough clearance in the rear area to easily mount one. There are wires & hoses everywhere & there is little room to squeeze one in to begin with.

I figure someone with a custom rear exhaust manifold shorter than the stock one & moving the outlet to the middle of the header, so the turbo fits as close to the passanger side as possible, would make the best way to twin turbo. (Not that you couldn't just find another place for it)

You'll have to fab new manifolds.

What do you need to know about turbos? There are many places that cover that.

AFA picking things I've done some of that work previously.

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=184692