Hhighlander Vs. 400h Mileage

[JasonATL]

My father-in-law bought a Hybrid Highlander in the last two weeks. He claims that he hasn't had mileage on a tank of gas below 30 MPG. He says that the last 3 tanks have been between 31 and 32 MPG.

This surprised me for several reasons:

1) I'm getting 26 or so, no matter what (hwy or city). Only for short periods (e.g., stuck in traffic) will I get great mileage, but nothing over 26 for a 200 mile stretch.

2) I drive fairly conservatively.

3) My father-in-law drives very aggressively -- not in a way that would save fuel/energy.

Are others who have or know people that have HHighlanders observing the same?

Assuming my father-in-law's experience is true (which I must admit that I haven't seen first-hand, I'm only going by what he says): What might explain this? My guess is that this could be explained by Lexus (Toyota) tweaking computer settings such that the Lexus has better/more aggressive performance and the Toyota has more fuel-friendly settings.

If technologically possible and inexpensive, it would be nice if Lexus (or Toyota) would allow the driver to choose the tradeoff with the Hybrid technology -- performance or fuel-saving. That is, my 1999 RX 300 has a switch for different transmission settings (ECT is one, I think). Can't there be a similar switch for the 400h -- one for "performance" and the other for "fuel economy"?

[RX400h]

That's funny, because I recently read a Highlander hybrid road test article that mentioned the Highlander getting lower milage than the RX400h.

At best, the Highlander h should get 1 or 2 MPG more than our vehicles, especially if it is a 2-wheel drive version. If I were you, I'd take what Highlander owners tell you with a grain of salt. Remember, most wish they had a Lexus!

[JasonATL]

LOL! We're talking about my father-in-law. So, taking what he says with a grain of salt is... well, he's internet-active, so I won't finish that.

[uthorns1976]

LOL! We're talking about my father-in-law. So, taking what he says with a grain of salt is... well, he's internet-active, so I won't finish that.

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Jason, this is slightly off the topic and I don't want to start a long thread but do you know what kind of deal your father-in-law got on the Highlander hybrid?? Are they going for sticker like the 400h?

[patt]

The edmunds forums have discussion areas for both Highlander Hybrid and Rx400 hybrid. The average mileages reported on the Highlander Hybrid board do seem to be larger than the Rx400H mileages. 31 and 32 don't seem out of line with what is being reported there. It is surprising given that the EPA ratings are the same for the two cars, but I guess we are paying something for the extra features, comfort and weight of the Rx400H.

While individual drivers may exaggerate, the aggregate reports for the two vehicles being different leads me to think there is a real difference.

[JasonATL]

Jason, this is slightly off the topic and I don't want to start a long thread but do you know what kind of deal your father-in-law got on the Highlander hybrid??  Are they going for sticker like the 400h?

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I don't know exactly what he paid, but my impression was that it was a non-trivial deduction from list. He is in a very small town and it was a loaded Highlander. The dealer bluntly told him that there would be no way for him to sell the car with all the extras to anyone else. In terms of features, he has most of what the Lexus has, for significantly less dollars. If I didn't love the styling of the RX400h and hate the styling of the Highlander, I'd be upset. The mileage difference makes me a little upset even considering those things.

[mobil13]

The Highlander Hybrid has narrower tires than the RX400h and the smaller contact patch theoretically should help fuel economy. Not only the size, but the type of tires will also play a role here - the HH OEM tires may have a lower rolling resistance.

HH=225/65R17 - Tire make?

RX=235/55R18 - Goodyear or Michelin ?

We have a 2004 Prius with 35K miles - when we replaced the OEM tires (very low rolling resistance with fair/poor handling characteristics) with a premium set of the same size Michelin's (albeit, higher rolling resistance but much crisper handling), we took an average of a 5 MPG hit (from 50MPG down to 45MPG). However, it was worth the 5MPG trade-off.

[RX400h]

The San Diego Tribune recently ran a review of the Highlander Hybrid and the reviewer averaged only 22 MPG, from what I recall. We're averaging 25 MPG without babying the throttle, but from what I've read so far, there should be very little difference between the two vehicles. As I mentioned in another post, my wife's coworker claims here Mercedes ML320 gets nearly the same gas mileage as our RX400h. Again, jealousy tends to inflate numbers considerably.....

[rocky2]

The San Diego Tribune recently ran a review of the Highlander Hybrid and the reviewer averaged only 22 MPG, from what I recall. We're averaging 25 MPG without babying the throttle, but from what I've read so far, there should be very little difference between the two vehicles. As I mentioned in another post, my wife's coworker claims here Mercedes ML320 gets nearly the same gas mileage as our RX400h. Again, jealousy tends to inflate numbers considerably.....

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After first 500 miles, the next 1000 miles, 90% city, 26.1 mpg. After additional 500 miles, almost all hwy (which at 70+ mpg got about 25 mpg), for the next 500+ miles, all city, we are getting 29.4 mpg.

The 29.4 mpg is without AC on, and not trying to beat everyone off the line at the stop light.

My mileage improved when I tried something new. I accelerated normally from light to approximately 20 - 25 mph which includes initial no engine, and then engine/electric or just engine coming on. I then lift off pedal and electric only comes on and I can cruise at 30 - 40 mph electric only. Because of the CVT and smoothness of engine/electric transition, no one notices me coming on and off the pedal.

We traded our 2002 ML320 in on the 400h. We never got over 14 in the city or 20 on the HWY. We had a 1998 ML320 which did approximately 16 city but still 20 on hwy.

[91L3xus]

I believe that the difference in transmissions between the Highlander and the 400h would have an effect; the 400h having a CVT and the Highlander a regular automatic(?). Curb weights would also effect the MPG.

[jerryray]

I believe that the difference in transmissions between the Highlander and the 400h would have an effect; the 400h having a CVT and the Highlander a regular automatic(?).  Curb weights would also effect the MPG.

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Really, the highlander synergy drive hybrid system is DIFFERENT than the Lexus ?

I was under the impression they were identical?

[rocky2]

I believe that the difference in transmissions between the Highlander and the 400h would have an effect; the 400h having a CVT and the Highlander a regular automatic(?).  Curb weights would also effect the MPG.

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Really, the highlander synergy drive hybrid system is DIFFERENT than the Lexus ?

I was under the impression they were identical?

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The Highlander has a CVT trans also.

[91L3xus]

Oops.

I know not all.

[wwest]

Cloth seats in the HL might contribute, no power robbing seat heating required.

Like the 04 and later Prius, the HL may come with the economy mode of the A/C enabled. That makes the A/C dramatically more efficient resulting in fewer operational cycles of the compressor.

The RX400h automatic climate control ALWAYS uses the reheat/remix mode, first cooling the system airflow for best dehumidification and then reheating it to prevent discomfort to the driver and passengers.

The reheat/remix cycle REQUIRES that the engine coolant be HOT and the electric water pump operates to circulate it through the heat exchanger.

That results in the engine running needlessly, insofar as motive force is concerned, at times. So the Rx400h engine, ICE, must run to keep the engine coolant HOT and keep the catalytic converter up to its optimal operating temperature.