Ls400 And Nsx For 300c?

[CanadaCraig]

Hi Guys!! :)

I'm all but convinced that my 1993 LS400 is a dud. Some cars are like that - I guess. [even Lexuses] Oh well... My dealer has basically given up - telling me my car is fine and drives as it should. I've owned over 50 cars and driven hundreds. [including several other Lexuses] I think I know when a car isn't performing as it should. But they know best. [sarcastically said - in case you missed that!!] It frustrates me. My car has a vibration. The dealer says it's the tires. Sure - maybe the Bridgestone Turanza LS-V's are a bit aggressive for the car [tread pattern wise] and causing it to vibrate - but I really don't think tires can be blamed for a vibration that I can cause to happen by merely revving the engine to somewhere between 1400 and 2800 rpm - or so. Do you?! [WHEN THE CAR IS PARKED!!] My LS has 70,000 miles but drives like it has 2 or 3 times that. It handles poorly. Still takes 13 seconds to get to 60 mph and has [as I've already said] an annoying vibration. [gas pedal and shifter - mostly] The dealer also said the front rotors are a bit warped.

Lately - I've been seriously thinking of trading in my LS AND my 1991 NSX on a brand new Chrysler 300C. [a 'straight-trade' I would hope] I love the 'C'. It's my kind of car. Big, in-your-face styling and very powerful. It's comfortable and quiet - too. Trouble is - I don't know if I'm giving up on my LS too quickly. Then again - is a year and a half too quick? But if my dealer has given up - where do I go now? And is it worth it? I could spend several thousand dollars MORE and STILL not be satisfied. [and I'm NOT that fussy - I've only brought the NSX in twice in the 10 years I've owned it for something that wasn't quite right]

I'm lost. I really don't know what to do.

Any suggestions?!

Thanks,

Craig!! :(

[RFeldes]

Well Craig, If it was me I would plan a trip that would take into consideration another dealer and get a second opinion. Then I would decide. It may just be ineptitude on the part of your dealer. You seem to have the best of both world's with the NSX and Lexus and have put in so much effort that, if it was me, I would give it one last go and see what happens. Sometomes fresh, unbiased eyes are clearer. Hope this helps.

[CanadaCraig]

Hi RFeldes!! :)

I appreciate you taking the time to reply.

What you said DOES help. Unfortunately - there is only one Lexus dealer on the Island. [Vancouver Island] I could go to Vancover - I suppose - but that would cost several hundreds dollars. [and that's before I got TO a Lexus dealer] Still - it's an option.

I trust you can appreciate how frustrated I am. Driving into a Chrysler dealer with a car [mine] that takes 13 seconds to reach 60 mph and into a 300C that takes just 6 seconds. No wonder I was so impressed with the 300C. AND no wonder I'm still so frustrated with my Lexus.

Please respond to my throttle body question - if you could.

Thanks,

Craig

[Lexusfreak]

I would stay clear of Chrysler personally Craig, not to mention the 300c is in it's first year of production (again a Chrysler to boot, which I would never buy new because of the severe depreciation) If you are hell bent on getting another vehicle, I would consider something else & at least stay Japanese (if not stay with another Lexus). Just my 2 cents. B)

[SW03ES]

I'd do it.

Why? Because you're simply not going to get perfection from a 12 year old car, regardless of how low the mileage is. You simply have no way of knowing what the car has been through over the 10.5 years it was owned before you had it. Maybe it was wrecked, you just have no way of knowing.

This is why I dont buy used cars, even a couple years used I just always want a new car that can age while I'm driving it, so I KNOW what its been through.

The 300C is a great car with great style, its not as high quality nor as well engineered as a Lexus but it is new. I'd do the trade tomorrow, be done with it and be on with your life.

[RFeldes]

Hi Craig,

I just noticed that you said there is a vibration somewhere around 1400 to 2800 RPM when revving in neutral. Have you tried driving at those RPM's in different gears? If it vibrates at those RPM's no matter what gear or speed that would be indicative of a timing problem i.e. Timing Belt, Rotors, Caps, Plug wires or plugs. In other words the 90k service. There is some argument as to 90k service being due on mileage or is age a consideration when low mileage is recorded, as in your case with the elderly lady who let it sit for extended periods. SWO3ES may have a point about letting go and that would probably be prudent. But if you confirm a timing problem by the RPM test then you are looking at the 90k Service which may or may not be redeemable on a trade-in or outright sale. Tough decision either way. Try the test and let us know.

[nc211]

Hey Craig,

I would have to agree with SWO3ES on this one. But, do you really want to give up that nsx as well? The LS I can see, and agree with "sorry loyal fans". Nothing lasts forever, and hen-pecking problems can and does get quite ANNOYING! My 95 is going in tomorrow. If affordable, I'd trade the LS for something else, and keep the NSX. Those are sweet cars!

[Texas]

I'd wait another year on the Chrysler... 2nd year will be much more dependable, and your dealer may know how to fix it by then!

[GSsoldier]

i agree with texas... its still kind of new it will be fixed in a year or so... and SW is right too... age of hte car is just a problem it still rides nicer then most cars now adays but time can do that to a car

[blake918]

I'd keep what you have. Or atleast before you trade, give SRK a call. I know he's offered more than once to drive your car and share his professional opinion. Handling poorly is the name of the game with a LS, but what's the NSX for?!?!? B)

With regards to your engine vibration while reving, have your motor mounts been changed? I'm sure you have a bad bushing somewhere that's causing your vibration, but a poorly balanced tire can also do it. Have your o2 sensors ever been changed?

I'm sure there's someone else that would be willing to work on your car other than the dealer! Perhaps a friend could recommend someone?

[CanadaCraig]

Hi Lexusfreak!! :)

You're certainly not alone in your concern for first-year cars. And I tend to agree.

The 300C - for me - is an emotional car. It's what I THOUGHT my LS was going to be. [although I never had any delusions that the LS would a super quick or anything] I suppose all of this boils down to being so horribly disappointed in my Lexus. I traded in a perfectly reliable Jeep TJ [Wrangler in the U.S.] for what I THOUGHT would be a wonderfully reliable and enjoyable car. [and one that I would keep for years] Well.. it's reliable - I'll have to admit. Just not enjoyable. And throw in the fact that I've already spent a lot of money trying to MAKE it enjoyable [i.e. drive like a Lexus] and the frustration mounts.

As of right now - I'm still lost as to what to do. I'd love to have my throttle body thing cleaned to see if that is the problem. [oh no - here I go again - hoping for the best - probably only to be disappointed - once again]

My goal was to have the slow acceleration problem fixed [before the spring of LAST year] and then start to do some fun things - like new struts, bushings all around, coil springs, etc. All I've done since I bought the car is try to make it run like it should have run in the first place.

Thanks,

Craig!! :)

[CanadaCraig]

Hi SW03ES!! :)

I appreciate what you're saying. And yes - maybe it was in an accident. [although in B.C. any accident that costs more than $2,000 to fix - I think - must be declared] But your point is well taken. I honestly believe that the 'problems' are literally caused by the fact that my LS was driven by a little old lady and often parked for months at a time - each year - every year - before I got it. The engine probably NEVER 'spun' beyond 4,000 rpm and the car itself was NEVER driven over 90 kph. [55 mph or so] That can't be good for any car.

I drove my NSX today. [after washing it] I have to say - the NSX is one hell of a car. Still impresses me - even after all these years. [and 80,000 km's] Do I really want to get rid of it just because my LS is driving me mad? [and I'd have to IF I wanted to buy a 300C]

Craig!! :)

[CanadaCraig]

Hi RFeldes!! :)

Yes - there IS a vibration between about 1400 and 2800 rpm. But I think it vibrates above 2800 rpm as well. [just not as easy to tell] I have tried using different gears within the 1400 to 2800 rpm range. Doesn't SEEM to make a difference. [it still vibrates - in other words] The timing belt, plug wires AND plugs have all been changed. [but that doesn't mean the timing was set right] I don't think the rotor or caps have been touched. [should mention that the next time I go to Lexus - IF I go back!!] I'm leaning towards a dirty throttle body - at least insofar as the poor acceleration is concerned. But some websites that I've looked at seem to suggest that a dirty TB can also cause a vibration. Is that true? I appreciate your help!!

Craig!! :)

[CanadaCraig]

Hi nc211!! :)

Thanks for the reply.

Like I said to SW03ES - I washed and drove my NSX yesterday. [first time in a week - because of rain] Wow. It's a nice car. [you can see it if you click on the link my signature] This June 30th will 'our' 10th anniversary together. It's been an enjoyable 10 years. [for the most part] Not much fun buying tires - though.

I'm a 'throw the baby out with the bath water' kind of guy. And I have to be careful of that because I often become so frustrated that all I want is something different. [which isn't always something better] I just wish someone would FIX my LS so I can start to do things to it that are FUN to do. [like new bushings and struts, etc.] I still love the IDEA of my 1993 LS. It was one of my dream cars for many years. And it's in great shape - inside and out. [click on the link in my signature to see it] I guess I'd just hate to get rid of it and find out later that all it needed was a 10 cent part to make it run right. [if you know what I mean]

Craig!! :)

[CanadaCraig]

Hi Texas!! :)

Are things really bigger there?! lol

Thanks for the advice. You might be right about the Chrysler. AND by then - maybe a few really good used one's would be available. It would be nice to find one driven by a little old lady!! lol :P

Craig!! :)

[CanadaCraig]

Hi GSsoldier!! :)

I appreciate what you're saying about the effect of 'time' on a car - but my NSX is 2 years older [then my LS] and has 25,000 more kilometres and it drives like new. I think any car CAN be made 'new' again. And that's kinda what I wanted to do [still want to do?] with my LS.

Thanks,

Craig!! :)

[CanadaCraig]

Hi blake918!! :)

SRK and I talk every now and then so I think he'd still be willing to drive my LS. I think that's what I'll do. [at least I'll ask him] But what if he thinks it drives perfectly?! lol

As for poor handling.... there's a difference between soft and controlled and soft and uncontrolled. My LS often feels like it's coming apart. [well - perhaps not quite THAT dramatic] Oddly enough - it's quite impressive at times when driven quickly on a winding road. I feel connected to the car. But on straight-a-ways the car often feels loose and can sometimes be a little frightening. [if that's the right word]

The motor mount was changed about this time last year. [when they balanced the drive shaft in a mostly failed attempt to remove a droning sound heard at around 50 mph] The sway bar bushings were replaced along with a bushing near the back of the car. [can't remember which one that was] The o2 sensors [oxygen sensors?] were looked at and declared ok. I think the service guys depend a little too much on computer codes. [would that be a fair thing to say?]

Thanks,

Craig!! :)

[RFeldes]

Hi Craig,

Looked at your cars and they are "SWEET". Timeless styling. I think you "are" getting close. Throttle Body or timing.

[Lexusfreak]

Hi Lexusfreak!! :)

You're certainly not alone in your concern for first-year cars. And I tend to agree.

The 300C - for me - is an emotional car. It's what I THOUGHT my LS was going to be. [although I never had any delusions that the LS would a super quick or anything] I suppose all of this boils down to being so horribly disappointed in my Lexus. I traded in a perfectly reliable Jeep TJ [Wrangler in the U.S.] for what I THOUGHT would be a wonderfully reliable and enjoyable car. [and one that I would keep for years] Well.. it's reliable - I'll have to admit. Just not enjoyable. And throw in the fact that I've already spent a lot of money trying to MAKE it enjoyable [i.e. drive like a Lexus] and the frustration mounts.

As of right now - I'm still lost as to what to do. I'd love to have my throttle body thing cleaned to see if that is the problem. [oh no - here I go again - hoping for the best - probably only to be disappointed - once again]

My goal was to have the slow acceleration problem fixed [before the spring of LAST year] and then start to do some fun things - like new struts, bushings all around, coil springs, etc. All I've done since I bought the car is try to make it run like it should have run in the first place.

Thanks,

Craig!! :)

←

Craig, if you are considering paying that kind of cash for a new 300c, I would respectfully suggest maybe putting that cash towards another pre-owned Lexus (perhaps a different model than the LS this time around?) ;) I respect SW's opinions on his views of a used vehicle vs. a brand new one, but I have to disagree. (having said that, if one has the means & the money to burn on that sort of thing, then by all means knock yourself out, but it's a lot of money wasted in only a few short years.......especially on a 'Domestic' brand).:whistles:

I wouldn't have been able to afford my ES if I was to purchase it brand new (would have been about $56,000+ taxes (in our case, plus PST, GST, air tax, tire tax, gas tax, Freight, P.D.I. & the taxes on top of taxes! :cries: ) Canadian $$$ the way it is equipped)!

I paid roughly half that & can still get about 80-85% of that price today as the previous owner took the brunt of the depreciation hit & maintained the car for me to boot! :whistles:

In over a year and a half now that I have owned my ES, other than regular maintenance, all that has been done to the car is the dome light assembly had to be replaced (under factory warranty). I got all service & maintenance records before I bought the car & put a Lexus extended warranty on the car as well (which I'm wondering if I should have as there have been no problems, but I do have piece of mind at least untill 180,000 kms or 2007). The car has seen two flawless tours of duty (so far) to sunny Florida as well. B)

You can buy a real nice 'pre-owned' Lexus for the price of a brand new 300c & get one hell of a better car IMO & that's the road I would seriously consider if I were in your shoes. Something to seriously consider. ;) Just my 2 cents.....well maybe 3 cents in this case :) ;)

[JasonInDallas]

I think you're crazy wanting a 300C. Go test drive a used LS430. I did and bought it on the spot. You can get a really nice one for about what a new 300C would cost and it's far the better car.

[RFeldes]

I think that a new car is a "losers" choice. Off the lot 10-15k out of your pocket, can you feel the tug? Get a used, certified whatever you prefer, and save the money for your retirement,home, well deserved vacation or education for your children, if you are blessed to have any. I agree with these guys and certainly agree a used LS430 is a much better choice than a new or used 300c. anyways, I am still fighting that you find your problem on that gorgeous 93 400.

[GSsoldier]

what a great guy huh? craig u must have lots of patience to be cool enough to anwser everyone u been doing for quite sometime haha

300c looks nice checked it out agian for a through look... i bet u even after chysler is trying to come back to higher car building standards it still wont be as nice as later model LS maybe a 2002

[Lexusfreak]

300c looks nice checked it out agian for a through look... i bet u even after chysler is trying to come back to higher car building standards it still wont be as nice as later model LS maybe a 2002

←

Higher building standards......yeah they are finally as good as late 80's Japanese cars! It's about time! lol :whistles:

[CanadaCraig]

Hi RFeldes!! :)

Thanks!! I'll admit - they are both in pretty good shape. In fact - both of them are my 'dream cars'. I feel very lucky to have them. THIS is WHY I'm so upset with my Lexus. But more than that - I think I'm upset with the Lexus service guys. From day one they just couldn't accept that I was having [as I did - when I first got the car] a 'bad gas' problem. It smelled like 'bad gas'. [you know - that varnish smell that you sometimes smell in lawn mowers or motorcyles the first time you start them up in spring]

I'll keep working on the Lexus - but only for a little while longer. I'd really hate to get rid of it if ALL it needs is a throttle body cleaning. [or something simple like that]

Thanks again,

Craig!! :)

[CanadaCraig]

Hi Lexusfreak!! :)

I appreciate the advice - and it makes a lot of sense. Trouble is - I have NO money to put towards ANY 'new' car. The plan was to trade both the LS and the NSX in on a 300C. If I had money to spare [car buying money] I'd just trade in the LS and get something newer. [if not new] I'm glad you're very happy with your ES. At least I know that SOME Lexus owners are happy with their cars!! lol [well - it's good to be reminded of that!!]

As for so-called domestic cars - I have to say - of the few I've owned - they have been remarkably reliable. [and I'm talking 1996 Dodge Caravan ES and two Jeep TJ's] In fact - with all three of those cars - I NEVER had to bring them in for anything but oil changes, etc. Opps - ok - the Caravan - a week after I got it - had a steering column improper sized bolt recall. [or something like that] But that's it.

Thanks,

Craig!! :)