Sorry To Say I Am Turning Down My 400h

[RAID10]

After my second test drive I noticed that the materials inside are not of high quality. Of course the fit and finish is very good, but the materials are not. I drove a black interior 400h and the doors panels have plastic in them instead of leather. My Honda mini van has leather in the door panels. The plastics on the center console does not come up to what the price should dictate.

I ordered a GS430 that looks like it is worth what I will pay for it. I was going to put wood in the 400h and add some after market items to spruce it up, but the GS430 comes with everything I want and it is only a about 9K more with a V8. The V6 is less expensive than the 400h.

Sorry guys, I wish the 400h came up to more luxorous standards.

[Unlisted]

it wouldn't make sense for them to make such an earth friendly car with a wood interior.

[speedyg]

I didn't check whether my doors have leather on them yet, but I must say I was a little suprised at first by the relatively lightweight doors on my RX400h (being used to the nice solid heft and clunk of my BMW's doors.) Not sure if this is particular to the RX400h (cutting weight in other parts of the vehicle to compensate for the heavy batteries) or if the RX330 also has the same type of doors?

[RX400h]

This has been the complaint with the 97-04 Corvette for many years and the best explaination that was given to me is this:

GM wanted to produce the highest-performing sportscar for the masses - handling, braking, and acceleration had to be beyond anything else in its price range. Certainly, Mitsubishi, Toyota, Mazda, and Nissan produced sportscars with better interiors, yet none could surpass the core competancy of the Corvette. Yes, its leather and plastic components were not what some would expect of a $50,000 vehicle, but in the end, Chevrolet's Corvette out-lasted most, if not all of its direct competition. The reason? Performance, plain and simple.

The RX400h was always intended to be a tour d force of engineering achievement, so much so that in order to keep the price below the stratosphere, some "cuts" had to be made. Most know that Toyota is NOT making a normal profit margin on its hybrids. However, I would venture to say that fuel economy, power, and luxury rank in that order when decisions are made as to whether an RX330 or other gasoline-only vehicle is considered and purchased over the RX400h.

Anyway, that's my take as to why the RX400h can never be all things to all people.

[RAID10]

it wouldn't make sense for them to make such an earth friendly car with a wood interior.

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Too bad the "tree huggers" don't realize that it takes more energy to make the aluminum than a it takes to grow a hybrid tree on a tree farm for accent.

[TunedRX300]

it wouldn't make sense for them to make such an earth friendly car with a wood interior.

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So you are assuming there is no pollution to make plastic?

[RAID10]

This has been the complaint with the 97-04 Corvette for many years and the best explaination that was given to me is this:

GM wanted to produce the highest-performing sportscar for the masses - handling, braking, and acceleration had to be beyond anything else in its price range. Certainly, Mitsubishi, Toyota, Mazda, and Nissan produced sportscars with better interiors, yet none could surpass the core competancy of the Corvette. Yes, its leather and plastic components were not what some would expect of a $50,000 vehicle, but in the end, Chevrolet's Corvette out-lasted most, if not all of its direct competition. The reason? Performance, plain and simple.

The RX400h was always intended to be a tour d force of engineering achievement, so much so that in order to keep the price below the stratosphere, some "cuts" had to be made. Most know that Toyota is NOT making a normal profit margin on its hybrids. However, I would venture to say that fuel economy, power, and luxury rank in that order when decisions are made as to whether an RX330 or other gasoline-only vehicle is considered and purchased over the RX400h.

Anyway, that's my take as to why the RX400h can never be all things to all people. 

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But the bottom line is that Lexus is a "luxury" brand and all products under this brand should come up to luxury standards. The 400h at $50K should have higher quality materials than even the RX330.

[scoobie]

... I would venture to say that fuel economy, power, and luxury rank in that order when decisions are made as to whether an RX330 or other gasoline-only vehicle is considered and purchased over the RX400h.

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I would disagree with you on that point, I think most people who are considering hybrids in general rank the decision criteria you'd mentioned in this order: power, fuel economy, luxury. And those considering the 400h specifically probably rank them as: power, luxury, fuel economy.

Be honest, if the 400h didn't have the "neck snapping" 650 lb-ft of torque, would you have bought it ?

[SW03ES]

GM wanted to produce the highest-performing sportscar for the masses - handling, braking, and acceleration had to be beyond anything else in its price range. Certainly, Mitsubishi, Toyota, Mazda, and Nissan produced sportscars with better interiors, yet none could surpass the core competancy of the Corvette. Yes, its leather and plastic components were not what some would expect of a $50,000 vehicle, but in the end, Chevrolet's Corvette out-lasted most, if not all of its direct competition. The reason? Performance, plain and simple.

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Thats just GM's excuse. They havent been able to build an interior yet as nice as the Japanese and German competition. They're not willing to spend the money. Somehow the new C6 delivers all that performance with a much better interior...

As for the RX, I've always found the interiors high quality, haven't seen a 400h yet though.

[RX400h]

... I would venture to say that fuel economy, power, and luxury rank in that order when decisions are made as to whether an RX330 or other gasoline-only vehicle is considered and purchased over the RX400h.

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I would disagree with you on that point, I think most people who are considering hybrids in general rank the decision criteria you'd mentioned in this order: power, fuel economy, luxury. And those considering the 400h specifically probably rank them as: power, luxury, fuel economy.

Be honest, if the 400h didn't have the "neck snapping" 650 lb-ft of torque, would you have bought it ?

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Yes, because we wanted our next vehicle to be (in this order)

Reliable

Economical

Tall

Powerful

If power were number one, we's have bought an SUV long ago. Remember, no SUV Lexus has ever introduced has generated the excitement that the 400h has generated. More power with lower gas milage would not have been nearly as popular as having both in one vehicle.

[RAID10]

... I would venture to say that fuel economy, power, and luxury rank in that order when decisions are made as to whether an RX330 or other gasoline-only vehicle is considered and purchased over the RX400h.

←

I would disagree with you on that point, I think most people who are considering hybrids in general rank the decision criteria you'd mentioned in this order: power, fuel economy, luxury. And those considering the 400h specifically probably rank them as: power, luxury, fuel economy.

Be honest, if the 400h didn't have the "neck snapping" 650 lb-ft of torque, would you have bought it ?

←

Yes, because we wanted our next vehicle to be (in this order)

Reliable

Economical

Tall

Powerful

If power were number one, we's have bought an SUV long ago. Remember, no SUV Lexus has ever introduced has generated the excitement that the 400h has generated. More power with lower gas milage would not have been nearly as popular as having both in one vehicle.

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The bottom line is are you getting your money worth. I think for this kind of money Lexus could put leather on the doors and better materials on the console. My Honda mini van has leather and a nav system for under $30K with nice leather on the doors.

[scoobie]

The bottom line is are you getting your money worth.  I think for this kind of money Lexus could put leather on the doors and better materials on the console.  My Honda mini van has leather and a nav system for under $30K with nice leather on the doors.

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Getting your money's worth is a subjective perception, for people buying the 400h now, I'm sure that they've already factored in a premium for being the first to have the new technology in their driveway.

But I certainly agree with you that Lexus should not make the 400h less "luxurious" than the RX330, if the RX330 had leather on the door (looks and feels like leather anyway) then the 400h should have it as well; ditto on the wood trim, someone else mentioned he/she didn't like the aluminum trim on the 400h, I wouldn't either.

[LexKid630]

i agree totally; the interior is horrible. I hate the silver; still waiting for mine to come on though; i've got the ivory int. should look better? no?

[patt]

i agree totally; the interior is horrible. I hate the silver; still waiting for mine to come on though; i've got the ivory int. should look better? no?

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It is subjective. I don't care about whether there is leather vs. plastic on the door. A good quality plastic on the surfaces I don't sit on means lower maintenance material. I care about having leather for things I sit on or touch all the time. The brushed alumininum with the black interior looks pretty sharp to me. With the ivory interior I've found it takes a bit of adjustment - I wish they had put a little bronze tone in it to make it harmonize with ivory better but black won't do for my climate and wasn't available with my preferred exterior color anyway.

I had occasion to drive an ES yesterday. After driving the Rx for a week, I decided the brushed aluminum is growing on me even with the ivor interior. The wood in the ES looked out of place and too orange toned - especially on the steering wheel. Going around corners, I found I prefer the feel of the all leather steering wheel to the leather wood combination in the ES. I really missed the telescoping on the steering wheel too. That has really spoiled me. I'm short enough that the ability to move the steering wheel forward to match my seat position is a real luxury.

I love a nice quality wood surface and have a lot around my house, but for wood in a car they seem to have to put a very high gloss surface on it that makes it look and feel more like plastic fake wood anyway. It practically is plastic as in many cases it is a very thin veneer under that gloss. I like a more warm no gloss or semi-gloss surface on my wood items.

I like the driving and handling of my Rx compared to the ES too. The acceleration is so smooth. With the ES I had to get use to pushing the gas pedal in harder.

They did make some decisions on the Rx400H that I question like the lack of tire pressure monitorig. And I kind of wish they had included the laser cruise control - but that is probably a silly desire for a fancy toy since much of my driving conditions aren't great for cruise control and it isn't like you can leave the driving to the laser when you do use the cruise control.

[RX400h]

i agree totally; the interior is horrible. I hate the silver; still waiting for mine to come on though; i've got the ivory int. should look better? no?

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Horrible? Dang, we need to put you in a Dodge Neon for at least one week and then ask you again how the RX interior looks.:chairshot:

I agree with Patt as to the unnatural "ultrasheen" of the wood trim that is commonly used. Keep the wood stuff in the house, I always say.....

[scoobie]

... I found I prefer the feel of the all leather steering wheel to the leather wood combination in the ES. I really missed the telescoping on the steering wheel too. That has really spoiled me. I'm short enough that the ability to move the steering wheel forward to match my seat position is a real luxury.

I love a nice quality wood surface and have a lot around my house, but for wood in a car they seem to have to put a very high gloss surface on it that makes it look and feel more like plastic fake wood anyway. It practically is plastic as in many cases it is a very thin veneer under that gloss. I like a more warm no gloss or semi-gloss surface on my wood items.

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For what it's worth, my salesman told me the wood is real, in fact, he claims it is the same grade of wood as that from which Yamaha pianos are made. That said, I do agree the gloss is a little overdone, and I too prefer the feel of an all leather steering wheel when manuveuring (high glossed wood is slippery), however, after a while the wood trim appearance grew on me and I kind of like it now (isn't that true in most situations, we get used to it because it takes less effort to adapt to the environment than to change it).

[SeaDuck79]

Thats just GM's excuse. They havent been able to build an interior yet as nice as the Japanese and German competition. They're not willing to spend the money. Somehow the new C6 delivers all that performance with a much better interior...

As for the RX, I've always found the interiors high quality, haven't seen a 400h yet though.

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Too right, that! Every time I drive a nearly new GM rental car, it's in worse shape than my 5 yr old Focus with over 100k miles, not to mention my RX330. GM uses crap parts, which break easily and won't last. Road & Track or some car mag did a head-to-head between the Vette and the 911, and the results were pretty much what you'd expect. The Porsche beat the Vette on the curves, and the Vette was faster on the straights. Overall, it was about a push - except that even in a brand new car, there were rattles and squeaks that made testers think that the $40k difference in price wasn't as significant as it would appear.

Until they deal with the fit and finish issues and spend a few more bucks on better parts, I will NEVER own a GM vehicle.

[SW03ES]

Sea- Its just unbelievable, even the all new STS, the pride and joy of all GM's engineers can dream to do has crappy plastics and cheap carpeting. At least the fit is better...

IMHO GM has the worst interior in the industry, on all their model lines. Getting better but still the back of the pack.

[RX400h]

That's old school GM. The new breed utilizes hydro-formed frames that significantly reduces welds and joints that would normally produce squeeks and rattles. My 2001 Corvette not only rides as well as the Rx400h, but also, like virtually all C5 Corvettes, is squeek and rattle-free after almost 4 years of daily driving. My seats are more comfortable than any others I've sat in, and I've been driven in Porsches, BMWs and Mercedes plenty of times.

Now, about competition with Porsche: Both Car & Driver and Road & Track compared the new C6 Corvette against the latest Porsche 911. Both magazines voted the Corvette as the better overall sportscar. By the way, the new Chevy Cobalt is as quiet as the Lexus RXs. If you don't believe that, try one out. GM has come along way from the dark days of years past. They still have a way to go, but don't base your opinions on vehicles that were designed 20 years ago.

As far as interiors go, the old saying applies to Lexus as well as it does every other manufacturer:

You can't please everybody!

[SW03ES]

Still not sold. The interiors are better, but not up to the standards put forth by the benchmark makers. I'm not basing my opinions on vehicles designed 20 years ago, the STS is all new and took everything GM has to design and build it, and its STILL not as well built as the competition and its no longer any cheaper.

As for ride, well thats your opinion but I've driven C5s and they ride nowhere near as good as any Lexus, but they're not supposed to. I also had a cobalt as a rental back a few months ago...don't agree there either.

[RX400h]

Still not sold. The interiors are better, but not up to the standards put forth by the benchmark makers. I'm not basing my opinions on vehicles designed 20 years ago, the STS is all new and took everything GM has to design and build it, and its STILL not as well built as the competition and its no longer any cheaper.

As for ride, well thats your opinion but I've driven C5s and they ride nowhere near as good as any Lexus, but they're not supposed to. I also had a cobalt as a rental back a few months ago...don't agree there either.

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The key is in the tires. The C5, like the BMW Z4 came factory-equipped with rock-hard-sidewall runflat tires. They produced slotcar-like handling but tended to transmit every small bump through the driver's spine.......enter the Goodyear GS D3 tires......MUCH smoother ride and much quieter. Their only drawback is a slightly less-crisp turning response. Try riding in a non-runflat C5 after riding in an RX and I think you'll "feel" what I mean.

Getting back to interiors.....Check out the Pontiac GTO interior - right up there with the best of the Japanese.

[jerryray]

Personally I am looking to find what company has the best equipped wood kit for the 400. I will max out, I just like the wood look.

Anyone find a more complete kit vs another?

PS the touted "silver look" was probably a cost saving factor to keep the price down. The cost of the electric parts was $$$$.

[SeaDuck79]

That's old school GM. The new breed utilizes hydro-formed frames that significantly reduces welds and joints that would normally produce squeeks and rattles. My 2001 Corvette not only rides as well as the Rx400h, but also, like virtually all C5 Corvettes, is squeek and rattle-free after almost 4 years of daily driving. My seats are more comfortable than any others I've sat in, and I've been driven in Porsches, BMWs and Mercedes plenty of times.

  Now, about competition with Porsche: Both Car & Driver and Road & Track compared the new C6 Corvette against the latest Porsche 911. Both magazines voted the Corvette as the better overall sportscar. By the way, the new Chevy Cobalt is as quiet as the Lexus RXs. If you don't believe that, try one out. GM has come along way from the dark days of years past. They still have a way to go, but don't base your opinions on vehicles that were designed 20 years ago.

As far as interiors go, the old saying applies to Lexus as well as it does every other manufacturer:

You can't please everybody!

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Wrong! I actually liked some of the old Chevys my family owned in the '70s. It's the recent ones that suck (although the trend started in the '80s). I'm talking about almost new ones that are already falling apart. The sad part is that if they spent maybe $50 to upgrade the plastics in their interior, it would increase the saleability much more than that. Shortsighted morons.

[RX400h]

Wrong!  I actually liked some of the old Chevys my family owned in the '70s.  It's the recent ones that suck (although the trend started in the '80s).  I'm talking about almost new ones that are already falling apart.  The sad part is that if they spent maybe $50 to upgrade the plastics in their interior, it would increase the saleability much more than that.  Shortsighted morons.

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The 60s and 70s plastics were very susceptable to UV damage - much more so than the plastics that have been used in interiors for the last 20 years or so. I know because I owned a 68 Corvette for 22 years. Armorall skyrocketed to fame because their silicone-based formula protected the old type of plastics from crumbling in your hand. On the other hand, I knew a guy who had a Cavelier for 15 years. Its interior plastics were perfect at time of sale. Yes, plastics have come a long way from the 60s and 70s. Even the plastics in Hyundais are superior to those used during the muscle car days.

[SW03ES]

The key is in the tires. The C5, like the BMW Z4 came factory-equipped with rock-hard-sidewall runflat tires. They produced slotcar-like handling but tended to transmit every small bump through the driver's spine.......enter the Goodyear GS D3 tires......MUCH smoother ride and much quieter. Their only drawback is a slightly less-crisp turning response. Try riding in a non-runflat C5 after riding in an RX and I think you'll "feel" what I mean.

Getting back to interiors.....Check out the Pontiac GTO interior - right up there with the best of the Japanese.

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Come on, runflats do make a difference but there is no way to make a sports car ride like a Lexus, they're just two different kinds of cars geared to do two different types of things. Handling and low ride with low spring travel equals stiffer ride, its just a given.