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Dangerous Brake Grinding In The Rain


SW03ES
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I've mentioned this before, but its become an issue again.

I have a very dangerous problem with my ES when I'm driving in the rain at highway speeds. When you drive at highway speed in the rain for a good stretch without using the brakes, they grind VERY loudly when they are first used, pull to the left and there is a marked loss of braking effectiveness. I have never felt anything like it on any car ever, its very frightening and if you have sleeping passengers it will wake them up. At lower speeds rain is not a problem. The brakes are 100% normal when the weather is dry.

They replaced the pads and the rotors under the brake vibration recall at 25k miles, now at 45k its back. They dont think they can get them covered again and the dealer is at a loss as to what is causing it, as am I.

Any ideas?

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I've mentioned this before, but its become an issue again.

I have a very dangerous problem with my ES when I'm driving in the rain at highway speeds. When you drive at highway speed in the rain for a good stretch without using the brakes, they grind VERY loudly when they are first used, pull to the left and there is a marked loss of braking effectiveness. I have never felt anything like it on any car ever, its very frightening and if you have sleeping passengers it will wake them up. At lower speeds rain is not a problem. The brakes are 100% normal when the weather is dry.

They replaced the pads and the rotors under the brake vibration recall at 25k miles, now at 45k its back. They dont think they can get them covered again and the dealer is at a loss as to what is causing it, as am I.

Any ideas?

hmm, anything on the inside of the rim?

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I've mentioned this before, but its become an issue again.

I have a very dangerous problem with my ES when I'm driving in the rain at highway speeds. When you drive at highway speed in the rain for a good stretch without using the brakes, they grind VERY loudly when they are first used, pull to the left and there is a marked loss of braking effectiveness. I have never felt anything like it on any car ever, its very frightening and if you have sleeping passengers it will wake them up. At lower speeds rain is not a problem. The brakes are 100% normal when the weather is dry.

They replaced the pads and the rotors under the brake vibration recall at 25k miles, now at 45k its back. They dont think they can get them covered again and the dealer is at a loss as to what is causing it, as am I.

Any ideas?

hmm, anything on the inside of the rim?

Sounds liek your pads are too hard of a compund. that can happen from the factory where they are made. If they pack them too much, they get down to the middle of the pad and they get to the point where they grind, cause the are packed so hard its liek a solid surface. your pads are somewhat pourus. if they arent, they can overheat.

if they heated them up too much when they made them or compacted the material in the mold to hard, it could be the cause. try going with a set fo aftermarket pads (dare i say it).

are your rotors scored? take a look at them.

are they glossy scored or discolored? if they are shiny liek a mirror, this is your problem, you have glazed them.

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The rotors aren't scored or glazed, they look normal. I'll post a pic of them you all will know better. No extra dusting either.

Thats what I was thinking too, it must be something in the composition of the pads. Can't be a coincidence that it happens at a similar stage of life. Must be a problem with all the cars with this brake system, wonder why the problem isn't more widespread.

If they won't replace them this time I will buy a set of pads myself with good reccomendations and just change them out myself.

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The rotors aren't scored or glazed, they look normal. I'll post a pic of them you all will know better. No extra dusting either.

Thats what I was thinking too, it must be something in the composition of the pads. Can't be a coincidence that it happens at a similar stage of life. Must be a problem with all the cars with this brake system, wonder why the problem isn't more widespread.

If they won't replace them this time I will buy a set of pads myself with good reccomendations and just change them out myself.

maybe it is on the inside.

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Very possibly...

Steve, there are afew pads that i would reccomend

If you arent stingy with your money (in otherwords, on a budget then check Bedix pads out. also the redstuff and greenstuff line from tirerack.com are good.

If Brembo makes pads (they used to, not sure if they do anymore) then go with them.

other good brands include StopTech, and Rotara.

EDIT: and now dust is NOT a good sign. It is an annoyance, but dust can be a good indicator of brake function.

Your pads are too hard if they arent dusting at all, or if you notice a drop off int he amount of dust.

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I'm not saying theres NO dust, theres just no more or less than usual.

Money's no object, Lexus would charge me $600 to put their pads on, they're charging me $240 for an oil change now (prices went up) :rolleyes:

I need to find an independent shop, especially as the warranty period comes to an end.

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I'm not saying theres NO dust, theres just no more or less than usual.

Money's no object, Lexus would charge me $600 to put their pads on, they're charging me $240 for an oil change now (prices went up) :rolleyes:

I need to find an independent shop, especially as the warranty period comes to an end.

I know for a fact you can do your own brakes steve LOL.

a monkey with a wrench can do front brake pads in an hour.

If you dont want to do them, thats a different story. :)

as for all you other work, im sure there are good qualified Indie mechs in you area. Woudl you liek me to call in to some connections i have?

Give em a ring at the hosue and we can chitchat (its the 817-485 #)

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Steve, I had my front brake pads and rotors replaced at 24k under the same TSB.

12k miles later they started doing the same thing as the mismatched pads and rotors did....heavy vibration upon braking from highway speeds. I complained to the dealer and they resurfaced all my rotors and wrote it off under warranty.

Visually the rotors looked fine, too.

I am coming up on 57k miles and not a problems since, especially no what you describe in your initial post.

you might want to try that route before springing for new parts.

steviej

ps, what else are they doing on a $240 oil change. That is insane!!!

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Just an oil change and tire rotation. I was shocked, but I was already there and the warranty work needed to be done so. Thats gonna be the last time. I could put it into an independent mechanic and rent the best car Enterprise has (Cadillac/Lincoln) and STILL probably be $100 cheaper than the dealer AND not have to worry about them washing it and scratching it all up. I gotta put a stop to that...

This is a different dealer, I switched because the last dealer rammed my car into something. The other dealer charged $160 for the service. I dont get it because the dealers are only off on hourly rate by a couple dollars. I'm going to ask that it be explained to me when I pick it up. This is the dealer that tried to charge me $20 a quart for synthetic oil so...

I dont get the feeling that these guys are going to be helpful in trying to get Lexus to fix the problem, they took the position that "Thats weird, they probably wont be able to do anything about it if they can't replicate it" and when I mentioned the other warranty work the other dealer had already authorized (buzzing rearview mirror, secondary steering shaft looseness, and a serpentine belt that squeals on startup) they replied "we'll check it out".

I have a feeling I'm going to get called tomorrow and get "We couldnt replicate any of those things, come and get it".

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The tech at the dealer seems to think its the ABS system actually, he's going to investigate it.

They had me come out there today and drove with me to feel the losseness in the steering, they think thats the steering rack and bet it will have to be replaced. They also need to replace the rearview mirror but the other dealer has claimed that they've already replaced it, which they haven't so they need to get that retracted before they can do it.

Sheesh, they dont make these things like they used to, that makes a faulty ABS system, a faulty steering rack, a replaced catalytic converter, new brakes and rotors, 3 rattles repaired all in 45k miles...

Definately gonna buy an extended warranty...

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The tech at the dealer seems to think its the ABS system actually, he's going to investigate it.

They had me come out there today and drove with me to feel the losseness in the steering, they think thats the steering rack and bet it will have to be replaced. They also need to replace the rearview mirror but the other dealer has claimed that they've already replaced it, which they haven't so they need to get that retracted before they can do it.

Sheesh, they dont make these things like they used to, that makes a faulty ABS system, a faulty steering rack, a replaced catalytic converter, new brakes and rotors, 3 rattles repaired all in 45k miles...

Definately gonna buy an extended warranty...

MY GOD, a steering rack in 45K? thats a $2000 bill easily on an ES.

damned dude. I hope the LS4 i get doesnt have all these problems...

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Try $4500. The total repair bill will be about 8k, warranty work thank god.

My dad's 98 LS went 160k miles with only one repair that was unwarranted by mileage, an AC compressor (the LS has 2) at about 70k. So I wouldnt worry.

His 04 has about the same miles as mine and no problems.

The steering rack and the abs on mine are an oddity...

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The steering rack and the abs on mine are an oddity...

I'll say.

On my 02, I have only had to do the TSB work for door rattles and front brakes. The right front strut had to be replaced...covered by warranty...but I think that is attributable to a pothole. Oh yeah, and a buzzing noise up in the headliner. Some warranty velcro fixed that.

steviej

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The steering looseness has been there ever since I bought it with 6 miles on the clock. Must have shipped that way.

It'll be done Friday and I'm sure it'll be better than new.

$4500 :blink::blink::blink::blink: thats more than my car was worth...:wacko:

seriously, you are letting them ream you if you have to pay that much. thast rediculous...if its under warranty then why the hell not. just dont pay that when it isnt. :blink:

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  • 1 year later...

All fixed, drives like a dream now.

They're still doing research on the brakes and want me to bring it back in when its raining.

So I have a similar problem with my brakes but it doesn't happen at highway speeds. I purchased the car last January and have had the car in to several dealers complaining of the problem, so far no results. The problem is that after the car has been sitting, usually 2-3 hours in the winter or overnight in the summer, and I start the car and being moving forward, if I apply the brakes there is an incredible metal on metal grinding noise and the car stops in a much greater distance than normal. After about a minute or two of normal driving the noise stops and everything is fine. There is no visible etching on the rotors, inside or out, and the pads look fine. I just returned from dropping it off at the dealer again, and they are going to "take the brake system apart to see if anything is obviously wrong." I don't suspect that they are going to find anything, and am wondering if this is something that anybody else has had problems with. I have driven several other es models and owned many other cars and never experienced anything like this. Thanks in advance for any ideas or comments.

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