lkirchner Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 Nice, I'd love to see more pics. ← More pics at dawn on a gloomy Sacramento day. ← Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lkirchner Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 Nice, I'd love to see more pics. ← More pics at dawn on a gloomy Sacramento day. ← ← Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lkirchner Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 Nice, I'd love to see more pics. ← More pics at dawn on a gloomy Sacramento day. ← ← ← Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lkirchner Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 Nice, I'd love to see more pics. ← More pics at dawn on a gloomy Sacramento day. ← ← ← ← Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lkirchner Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 Nice, I'd love to see more pics. ← More pics at dawn on a gloomy Sacramento day. ← ← ← ← ← Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W201 sweden Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 Bringing up an old thread here... Personally I'm not very impressed with the MB's of the last years. I have been working at two different MB dealerships in Sweden, and I have seen the steady decline of quality. The mess MB is in today is their own fault! I had customers telling me that they had been driving MB for 30 or more years, and never had any real trouble until their last car. Corrosion, electrical gremlins, parts and materials wearing out at no time etc. On one specific (rather new) car the clutch master cylinder broke. We put in a new one, which was also defective. After a second, new was put in, the customer left... ... only to return a few days later. Cylinder broken - again! New one put in - again. We had whole boxes with brand new, defective fuel filters from factory. Seat belts, computers, brake light switches - if it's there, it breaks! But the really annoying thing is that the spare parts for the old, GOOD cars are also dropping in quality! So if you repair your W126, W201 or W123, the new parts will not be as good as the car originally was! Still there are some very good things with the company: You can get your own spare parts catalogue! (you may need it ;) ) Even if your car is really old, they will have the parts for it! :D They were once (no longer) REALLY in the technical (mostly safety stuff) frontier. The old ones (pre -94) have very good corrosion protection. They are built to endure high speed driving without breaking a sweat. BUT! These facts are no longer enough for me, I need something more and better. PS. anyone interested in buying my MB 190E? :P just my 0,02 Euro... /Alexander Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cardona6569 Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 I have owned two Mercedes, both the old analog types. Wonderful cars when they built them. Tough, reliable, and frightening expensive to repair. Now they are weak, unreliable, and frighteningly expensive to repair. They look great. They drive great. That isn't enough in my mind. So I advised a real estate salesman buddy of mine to look at an LS400 when he needed a new car to ferry clients around. He said Lexus were boring. I said I had never driven one, but that he should drive one anyways. He bought the first one he sat in...... I found another for myself, and 18 months later bought a second one for me as the wife wouldn't get out of the first. I have had 19 Volvos, two Mercedes, one BMW, a 67 Plymouth Barracuda (yikes!), a 94 Camaro Z28, a 49 Mercury panel truck (that was a cool truck), and a few others. I will drive a Lexus for as long as I draw breath. Without knowing me, it is tough for anyone here to tell how significant that comment is, as I thought the world of Volvos. I still repair them, but I won't own one again. Own a Lexus, and you will never go back. Nice post, loved this line "I found another for myself, and 18 months later bought a second one for me as the wife wouldn't get out of the first." C. PR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
90LS400Lexus Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 Funny that this thread was brought up again... I had totally forgot about it. As you can see in one of my posts on this topic last year, I was talking about how much I liked the 81-91 S-Class sedans. Well since then I have bought a 85' Mercedes 380SE, (as you can see in my avatar) so I have went to a Mercedes after owning my Lexus. I actually went to an Acura after my Lexus and did not really like it, so I sold it, then bought a gas hog Suburban, which I sold, then bought this Benz. I really like the older ones better than the newer ones. Mine is over 20 years old now, with 264K, but still runs perfectly. I am really suprised that it is still this good. I was very weary, because I had never owned a MB before and I still am a bit, because I do not know a lot about it, but at least it is a V8, rear wheel drive model, so it is still pretty simple to work on. The spark plugs are absolutely the simpliest I have ever seen to change, as is the oil. Oil can be changed in about 4 minutes. The longest wait is letting the oil drain. As you can see in this engine photo of my car, it is pretty simple, but there is some complexity to it in some areas. The "clean" engine in the photo is the same engine in my car, but this one is in a low mile 83' Mercedes 380SEL. Yeah it is old, has faded paint, but I do not regret buying it, especially since I got a super deal on it. It seems to have less problems than my Lexus had and both had the same mileage, but as mentioned, this MB is not as complex. Also, it had one owner from 1985-2000, then the guy I bought it from had it from 2000-2005 and he put around 42K on it, but he did not maintain it as well as the original owners did. I am doing maintainence work now, such as brake pads, had to do an oil change, spark plugs, etc. Also, parts seem to be cheaper than they were for my Lexus. The only electrical problem I have (which seems to be the biggest problem on the older Mercedes) is that the RF and LR windows do not work, but I think it is a simple repair. Not a big deal, because believe it or not, the A/C still works. Hopefully I did not just jinx myself. Oh, I also have a problem with my anti-lock brakes, because my "anti-lock" warning lamp is illuminating, but my ABS seems to be working OK. I think a wheel sensor is bad or something. What I dislike about the V8 Mercedes of the 1980s is that the timing chain rails and guides can break it not changed after so many years and cause severe damage to the engine. I have no idea when or if mine was changed and it is about a $1000.+ replacement. :( I guess I will take the risk and just keep driving it until it stops. :D This car rides and drives better than my 90' LS400 did. The ride is softer, yet the handling is better. Pretty strange. The braking is amazing. Even better than my LS400, which had the best braking of any car I had owned in the past. Also, no clunking front suspension, no dash lights out and no radio glitches, no "popping" noises from the dash panel, all of which my LS had. I do have a trunk leak on the Mercedes, which I have discovered is due to a leaky taillight seal, which I am replacing soon. Also, this MB has the standard "MB-Tex" interior, which never seems to wear. It is much more durable than the optional leather. Also, the carpeting seems to never wear on these cars, but dash cracks are very common on the 80s Mercedes. That was a weak spot. I also like the fact that ANY Mercedes of ANY age, with ANY mileage, despite the number of owners, that you qualify for FREE roadside assistance. That was a suprise, but with what they charge for these cars new, as it should be. My car is a 1985 and it stickered for $46,000 and it was not even the top of the line model sedan. That was the "500SEL", which stickered for $59,000 in 85' if I recall and the 500SEC was about $63,000 in 85'. Not sure about the 85' 380SL convertible. I will have to look it up. I still love the LS400s and whos to say I may not buy another. I probably will someday, but if I do, it will likely be a 95-97 model, as those are my favorites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
90LS400Lexus Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Yeah, I agree. I know a lady that comes into work often that has a 2004 Mercedes S500. I think she paid something like $80K for it. She was complaining about three months ago that she had 4 recalls within four months. She was livid, but I really do not think she cares too much about the car. She hauls her animals around in it. Big dogs, cats, etc. Typically, there is a dog that rides up on the rear package shelf or instrument panel. I love my dog very much too, but I think if I had an $80K car, I would at least protect the seating. She has a LOT of money, so its not like she cannot go out and buy another automobile. For all I know, this Mercedes may be her "work/haul the animals" car. :) Yeah, I agree about the declining quality here too on the USA models. Too much plastics on the interiors now, as is the case with most all other makes as well, so it is not just MB, but to me, the new Mercedes do not seem to be distinct cars like the older ones of the early-mid 90s and older were. Also, reliability is on the decline. Back in the 80s- it was nothing for a Benz to go 200K-300K miles and need nothing mechanical. Now, I think it is more like 40K (if that). One good thing is that they do have lifetime roadside assistance - no matter the age of the car and no matter how many owners it had. Bringing up an old thread here... Personally I'm not very impressed with the MB's of the last years. I have been working at two different MB dealerships in Sweden, and I have seen the steady decline of quality. The mess MB is in today is their own fault! I had customers telling me that they had been driving MB for 30 or more years, and never had any real trouble until their last car. Corrosion, electrical gremlins, parts and materials wearing out at no time etc. But the really annoying thing is that the spare parts for the old, GOOD cars are also dropping in quality! So if you repair your W126, W201 or W123, the new parts will not be as good as the car originally was! just my 0,02 Euro... /Alexander Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFeldes Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 I, personally, hope they do comeback to their quality standards of yore. Germans are the artisans of the world as far as over-engineering and very methodical. They somehow have lost touch with that philosophy and partly due to profit margins and Japanese electronic tenacity. I still believe they will come back and remember when BMW was a low scale unreliable car and now they build a "solid" machine and best handling car on the planet less the electronics. Not bashing here, just the simple truth. I love the Mercedes and long for the day they step back into the arena of "dependable" automobiles. Just nostalgia? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texagun Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 I went through the "Mercedes Experience" with a 2001 Mercedes E-430. I bought it new and owned it for 5 years and the car spent as much time in the shop as it did in my garage. Had a transmission failure at 24,000 miles due to transmission fluid leaking into the Transmission Control Module. After this repair ($3000), I sold the car and replaced it with a 2005 Lexus LS430. I have been very happy with this car...absolutely no problems at all and much better build quality than the Mercedes. I might also add that everything that was OPTIONAL on the Mercedes, is STANDARD on the Lexus. I guess JD Powers knew what they were talking about when they rated the LS430 Number One in Dependibility and Reliabilty for the past 11 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
90LS400Lexus Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 (edited) Exactly... I would not recommend buying a Mercedes S-Class beyond 1991. That was the last "good" year. Beyond that, the reliability diminished. My aunt has a 1995 S-Class, but she has had very good service out of her car. I went through the "Mercedes Experience" with a 2001 Mercedes E-430. I bought it new and owned it for 5 years and the car spent as much time in the shop as it did in my garage. Had a transmission failure at 24,000 miles due to transmission fluid leaking into the Transmission Control Module. After this repair ($3000), I sold the car and replaced it with a 2005 Lexus LS430. I have been very happy with this car...absolutely no problems at all and much better build quality than the Mercedes. I might also add that everything that was OPTIONAL on the Mercedes, is STANDARD on the Lexus. I guess JD Powers knew what they were talking about when they rated the LS430 Number One in Dependability and Reliability for the past 11 years. Edited January 6, 2006 by 90LS400Lexus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc19907 Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 I owned a 500 sl and wrapped it around a tree. I was banged up pretty good. The car saved my life. Especially if you look at the photos of the car. I spun around and hit the tree on the passenger side door doing about 60+mph. THe door caved in all the way to past the center console. If you know Benzes they have a really high arm rest. Mine crushed my ribs and pined me into the driver's door. The car looked like a deformed U when it came to rest. When the medics arrived, I was unconscious and my car was still running.... amazing.. They used a steel pry bar to get me out and turn the ignition off in fear of a fire. It was expensive to drive, but a very, very solid and heavy car. I'll put my kids in a Benz for safety. I have said my next car will be a 430, but I do like the 500S a lot. If money were no object in my life, I'd drive a new S 55 Benz. They are safe cars. I enjoy my Lexus for now and don't look to get rid of it anytime soon; and it's feels almost as solid as my Benz. I think after a few years Benz will have many of the electronic bugs worked out of their line-ups too and yes Benzes are aweful snow cars. My LS is a great snow car considering it's real wheel drive. You couldn't go wrong with either - just pay more for the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
90LS400Lexus Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 (edited) Yeah, that is a good thing about them is that the newer ones are still built like tanks, just like the older ones was. If you have of been in a smaller car, you may have literally cut the car in half. I saw an 04' Honda Accord do this once in a crash with a Camry. Mercedes was a pioneer of many safety features that you see on cars today. Either Mercedes or Volvo invented the "energy absorbing steering column" and 3-point seat belts. I know that Mercedes invented at least one of them, maybe both. After GM's airbag equipped cars of 1973-76 (optional), Mercedes brought them back around in 1981 on the European cars, then offered them as an option on several 1984 USA models, then standard on the 85' 500SEL/SEC and standard on ALL for 86'. Then passenger airbag was optional for 89', then standard on the 560 for 90-91. I owned a 500 sl and wrapped it around a tree. I was banged up pretty good. The car saved my life. Especially if you look at the photos of the car. I spun around and hit the tree on the passenger side door doing about 60+mph. THe door caved in all the way to past the center console. If you know Benzes they have a really high arm rest. Mine crushed my ribs and pined me into the driver's door. The car looked like a deformed U when it came to rest. When the medics arrived, I was unconscious and my car was still running.... amazing.. They used a steel pry bar to get me out and turn the ignition off in fear of a fire. It was expensive to drive, but a very, very solid and heavy car. I'll put my kids in a Benz for safety. I have said my next car will be a 430, but I do like the 500S a lot. If money were no object in my life, I'd drive a new S 55 Benz. They are safe cars. I enjoy my Lexus for now and don't look to get rid of it anytime soon; and it's feels almost as solid as my Benz. I think after a few years Benz will have many of the electronic bugs worked out of their line-ups too and yes Benzes are aweful snow cars. My LS is a great snow car considering it's real wheel drive. You couldn't go wrong with either - just pay more for the other. Edited January 7, 2006 by 90LS400Lexus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noozguy Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 I am currently waiting on a '06 GS to be delivered. I am trading a '00 MBZ CLK430 Cabriolet. Part of me will miss the drop top and all the panasche of a Benz. But I wont miss the trips to the service department, and I don't necessarily mean the cash shelled out. I have to admit oly minor problems with my benz at 66k, but there is no service department like that of a Lexus. This will be my third Lex, and I just love the way they take care of you. That is the #1 reason I am maing the switch...plus I loke all the technology inside the ew GS and I am sure it will work correctly unlike a Benz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFeldes Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 jc19907, noozguy, That had to hurt and sorry you lost your Benz. That car most definately saved you from terrible misfortune and or pain, I know it meant alot to you as mine have to me, but glad to hear you are okay. 500sl, what a monster!!!! Yes the S55 is the ultimate, if they get it together. Noozguy, you are in for a treat, as the GS is a beautiful car. I dare say also, the Lexus service is like royalty, whether you drive a 90 or 2006. Forget meeting you in the garage and doing a trouble report on the spot aka. Cadillac.........no, you are wisked off to an office and offered coffee and donuts plus, plus,plus. God help you if you are out of warranty..LOL.. but it still feels good to be catered to. I know the pundits will step in and have their say, but Lexus takes care of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noozguy Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 RFeldes-you are right. this will be Lexus #3...had a '97 ES300, and '98 GS300....best service department ever...no matter which one I visited...Benz's are fun no mistaking...but when you really look at it for the money Lexus is the way to go....now if I had money to burn...I would probably still have a Lexus somewhere in the garage! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsupremo Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Had a 4matic 98 E320, with just over 100k. With in a year and a half. Had to replace front strut, alternator, water pump, had serious rust under the front doors and hood from chips, and rust developing thoughout the car. when the air conditiner started to go and being fed up with the A&B service check requirements I trade it in for the Lexus on the picture, I have not spent anything on the car other than regular maintenance and a stuck cigarrete lighter door (My fault left a credit card and it jammed) will never look back to benz unless I win one (then trade it in for a 2006 ls) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rx330driver Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Im a big mercedes and lexus fan. Even though my old mercedes did break down, i still love them...though they are burning a hole in my wallet. Still i like the presence and the way they look. The quality of the mercs are coming back...they say...starting with the new S class. They've cut their profits from 3 billion to 1. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsupremo Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Family_032a.bmp sorry trouble adding pic of benz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc19907 Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Rfeldes - Yep - I hated loosing my 500sl. I'll probably by another one someday. Just not a real practical car at all though. My Lexus is faster off the line - but the 500sl would definitely catch me..., Lexus holds 4 more passengers and all their stuff; gets 8 more mpg in the city and 12 more on the hwy. But, for some reason the Benz was just more solid - I loved to look over the hood while driving it. And, nothing can really beat having the top down in the fall and spring here; whilest cruising along in a Benzo. As for Lexus service. I bought my wifes GS at a dealership in Nashville. Yes, the whole buying experience was very, very good. However, I took my LS back to that same dealership for some service. Thier service advisor tried to sell me a bunch of bolognes that I didn't need. I told them I just wanted an cabin air filter and an oil change - which they wanted about 70 bucks for... I looked at my bill and their was a .5 hour labor charge for installing the cabin air filter. Which I was told by the advisor was standard. Well, at 70 bucks an hour - I don't fall for no bananas in the tailpipe... I took the advisor out to my car and uninstalled/and reinstalled the cabin filter 3 times in about 3 minutes... Needless to say he removed the charge. Initially, he tried to sell me brakes/rotors all the way around; new struts, and both the air and cabin air filter. I just went in for an oil change... I used to be a mechanic, so I know how the business works. Furthermore, my car was pretty sound when I brought it to them. I was dissapointed and should've been. He later told me that the service was suggested, but I could go for a while longer with all the aforementioned items. Currently my car runs and drives beautifully and all I've had done are new pads... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
90LS400Lexus Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Wow, a 500SL. They are beautiful cars, but one of the most costly Mercedes to maintain. I have been on the Mercedes forums for a while and you would not believe how much more parts are for the "SL" convertible models (of any year). I have found that parts for my Mercedes (did some searches) are not much more than that of any American car of the same years. I was surprised that I could buy OEM Mercedes brake pads for my car for $25.00, which is only $5.00 more than the "wearever" brand at Advance auto. The price for a new "air pump" for the engine is ridiculous. I priced it from "Fastlane" and it is $950.00! Mine has been disconnected for some reason, but I can get a used one from a wrecked low mile car like mine for $25.00 + shipping. There was a period in the late 90s to early 2000s where they declined in quality. Luckily, mine is an 80s model, back when they were built good and still simple to work on. I have not yet had the opportunity to visit my MB dealer, but I will tomorrow when I go have a key made. The dealer is the only place I can get it made, due to the design of the key. I am wondering what type of service will be given, especially since I have a 21 year old MB. My Lexus dealer was superb. There was a couple of occasions where they did not even charge me for some services. When my airbag lamp was not illuminating, they checked it (for less than I was originally told) and then they charged me $3.00 for the bulb that had been removed. I later took it in for a vibration woe and they checked it for FREE! They had it back there for about 45 minutes going over it. Come to find out it was my tires. They were always very pleasant, despite my LS400 being a 1990 model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cardona6569 Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 (edited) Don't make too much fun of me, guys - yet!! My name is James, and I'm a Benz addict. (everybody say "Hi James") I've tried Volvo. I've tried American cars and trucks, and I always fall in love with another Benz. And now I'm suffering under the spell of my latest one. It's in the shop AGAIN, and I can't believe how I blindly pay more and more to keep it alive. I get so much grief from my Lexus-owning friends and co-workers. I've poo-pooed Japanese cars because they don't seem to grab me. I love the feel, solidity and personality of German cars. But I've always liked the looks of the LS, and I respect good engineering. I drive a little over 40K miles a year, and I just can't keep up with the "always something going out" on the Benz. I've been lurking on this site for a couple of weeks, and I'm impressed with your enthusiasm for your cars. I'm hoping to get to 200K miles before declaring bankruptcy, and you guys go 300K all the time. What did you guys drive before you bought Lexus? Are any of you Benz (or German) ex-owners who never looked back? I'm thinking of an 01/02 LS430. Thanks for a great site - your enthusiasm is infectious!! I have this phone number and I think you out to give this guy a call about the relaibility problems that you are facing with the MB brand. "Thank you for your recent e-mail to our Customer Assistance Center. In order to discuss this matter further, please contact me at the telephone number below. I look forward to hearing from you at your earliest convenience. Sincerely, Joseph R. Leonardi Customer Relations Liaison Mercedes-Benz USA, LLC 1-800-367-6372 Ext. 6255" I told them about the problems I had heard in this site, Consumer's Reports, my friends and other MB owners and he sent me this communiqué. I hope this serves you and many others to vent your frustrations, concerns to MB, helping them better their nice looking cars. I love the E 320 96-2003. Their vehicles just need to become more reliable and a bit cheaper to maintain. C. PR Edited January 18, 2006 by cardona6569 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFeldes Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 Thanks Cardona...But reality is the 07 460 will "take one giant step forward" The perception is changing as the comparisons in quality are becoming farther and farther apart. Lexus has been diligently trying to achieve "The Best" and for 15 years has been proving itself to be more reliable. Now it has entered an arena of its own. When you fall behind, catching up is a chore, especially if you used to be the leader. The MB/Chrysler union was a loser from the start. Kinda like Lexus/Ford???......Don't mean to offend Chrysler or Ford but we are talking high dollar automobiles and if there is a sheep in the Angus barn there will be a wooly looking cow on the way. That is, if there is a step ladder.. LOL... In all seriousness.......Lexus has had a vision since day one in 1989 and has not strayed and held the line as a subordinate to MB and now has chosen the time to "take one giant step forward" due to your lackluster quality. Mercedes/Mr. Leonardi, no disrespect. "MB" now has to "catch up" and that does not mean with French fries... i.e. Euro. I look forward to the day when an MB star on the hood again reflects the quality within the automobile. Sharpen your pencils. IMHO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branshew Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 Had a transmission failure at 24,000 miles due to transmission fluid leaking into the Transmission Control Module. After this repair ($3000), I sold the car and replaced it with a 2005 Lexus LS430. Just curious, but why did you have to pay to repair the transmission w/ only 24K on the ODO. MB warranty is at least 50K miles or 4 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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