Battery Dead 2nd Time In A Month

[amf1932]

Yup, that's the thread. My, how time flies.:whistles: The thread was started sometime around the end of July 2004. :)

[nicksan]

Hey guys.

Wow, has it been that long?!?

Yeah, how time flies!!!

Anyways, yep, Massapequa is the one.

I'm sure there are people out there who think the world of them.

I'm just not one of them.

I think their arrogance is pretty obvious, even in the service department.

Anyways, I think Monday will be the last time I will ever visit them. I had to go back one more time to get my window retinted, plus, yeah, the battery...

But after the re-tint, that's it...for everything else I can go to Bay Ridge, or somewhere else under warranty. I might not get a loaner car but that's better than having to drive an hour to a crappy dealership.

Believe it or not, most of the problems have been taken care of over the course of 5 visits...yep....5...since July. I have yet to really drive my car if you can believe that. It's been in the shop a total of over a month, I'd say, at this point close to 2 months.

That's OK...I have a very reliable Acura MDX. It puts my ES300 to shame by simply running!!! So not having the ES doesn't hurt me as much.

But I still pay insurance and loan payments so that p*sses me off!!!

Anyways, the only things that are left is the pesky electric problem and the heated seat wiring...after that, I am moving on...enjoy my ride.

Hopefully that'll be some day in 2005!

Have a great new year folks!!!

[SKperformance]

a true load test for any ES alternator should be after the engine is hot not luke warm and been idled for about an hour

that is where mine always shows its true colours otherwise it shows perfect 14.4vdc until it gets real hot and left to idle which causes it to not leave the battery with a good charge

[khhoang]

a charge test is to test the battery

if it dies when you are already running then the alternator is not working and you need a load test for it not a charge test

either bad wires to the battery or from the alternator are you problem

more than likely the alternator is going

←

ran into this thread while searching for info on fog lights. SK might be right on the money again with the suggestions on bad wires to the battery..

http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index...topic=15167&hl=

[nicksan]

Well, I went to pick up my car at Lexus today.

They did replace the battery again.

I had the opportunity to speak with the Service Manager there, since I had another problem that wasn't properly taken care of (heated seats not working).

He basically told me to take the car, see what happens with the new battery. He said if it fails the third time, he will personally get involved in troubleshooting it. Until then, he said that tests were run and came out fine.

While I appreciated this, I was left to wonder why he didn't "troubleshoot" this time around. Oh well...I hope I never have to go back there again.

Just to let you guys know how bad it is at Lexus of Massapequa, the problem I've been having with the heated seats is that the right side switch will turn on the left side also.

The mechanic assigned to my car pretty much didn't check sh*t...so I complained over the phone and they said to come down and show the service manager.

I did. He went looking for the mechanic...he was all P*ssed...but he wasn't there so he said he would do it himself. I was waiting on the side so I didn't see too much, but I guess he popped open the area where there is wiring and fixed it. He told me that the wires were connected in reverse.

I confirmed that it is now working.

But it took that much to get ANYTHING done! I was in the garage area and there were pretty much very young looking guys working in there...like robots pretty much...I look at that and said "OK, now it makes sense why they are so sh*tty here". Seems like there is no such thing as accountability at Massapequa.

Might be fine for oil changes, etc...but I will NEVER go back there EVER again.

Thank goodness my business with them is over...I have everything taken care of so now I can go to another dealer under warranty...might not get a loaner car, but forget that!!!

I'll drive over to Autozone maybe this weekend and have them check out the eletric system.

[atl_es300]

nick,

we have almost the same identical battery problem as you have described. we have had our es300 since 2002 and every year since then, we have had a dead battery at least once a year and during one year, we had the problem twice. the dealer suggests that we do not drive the car enough to sufficiently recharge the battery. we are unhappy with this theory and our 3 year warranty is coming up. we have also been told that this is not an uncommon problem, and the customers who do have this problem tend to have very low mileage.

while our driving habits may be below average, it makes no sense to us why a car would be made in such a manner that requires high mileage for it to function. also, like you, the tech department at the dealership has repeated advised us that the alternater is not the problem.

we are considering trading in the es300 to get rid of this headache, and not neccessarily staying within the lexus family of cars.

[nicksan]

Well, part of me is hoping that the battery fails the 3rd time so that they cannot give me that "Battery is bad again" excuse.

It'll force them to look beyond the obvious.

But then again, if the battery fails again, I will bring it to a different dealership this time because Massapequa is pure madness...

I hope this is not a nagging problem...

The more this happens, the less I want to drive the car or put any efforts into it...like cleaning it, putting some accessories, etc...I just let it be...and hope that it starts the next morning, like my reliable Acura MDX.

[atl_es300]

your battery problems seems more severe than ours since you've only had your car 4 months while we have had ours nearly 3 years; however, the frequency of the battery dying is still unacceptable. just a couple weeks ago, our battery died for the 4th or 5th time, and the dealer finally added an aftermarket device on the car that auto-shuts downs all electrical components should it detect a low battery level so that at least the car will start, but even this makes us feel wary about the car. the root cause of the problem is still left untreated. we got the "battery is bad" theory a couple of times, too at first, but now that it has happened to us so many times, they say it's because we don't put enough miles on the car.

we still haven't decided one way or another about keeping this car, especially with the warrenty about to run out.

keep us posted on your situation, and we'll do the same.

[nicksan]

Thanks guys.

You are a HUGE help in all my Lexus issues.

This is simply put, a great site!

I will most definitey report my results, if any, to this thread.

But you are right that it seems like the dealer is more interested in treating the symptoms rather than trying to figure out the root cause of the problem.

Let's just hope that it was either another bad battery, or the wiring in the heated seats, which were wrong...(Passenger side switch controls both the passenger and driver side)

But the service manager did assure me that if it happens the 3rd time, he will not assume it's the battery, and that he will personally get involved to trouble shoot the problem...whatever that means.

But I guess it's good to build of that kind of history, even though I hate the dealership, I guess if the battery goes dead, I will, in fact, bring it in, just because the service manager is now familiar with the situation.

Will keep you guys posted, and thanks all of you again!

[nicksan]

OK, I've had the car for 3 days now.

Started fine last night when going out to get a bite to eat.

No hesitation, very smooth, just like how it was meant to be.

Today, it's raining and it's colder.

I will try again.

Also I sill try with the heated seats in the on position...meaning I will turn the car off with the heated seats in the on position, and see it that drains the battery.

Because I remember last time, the switch was on...not that that had anything to do with it...might have been a coincidence. But it's a good way to eliminate the possibility.

It might take a good month until I reach a conrete conclusion since last time I had it for a month and no problems. I don't really drive this car much...maybe once a week real driving and 1 more day to move the car for alternate side parking.

Last time it went dead, I moved the car over on a Tuesday, then a few days later it went dead. So the only thing I can think of was that the lack of driving caused it to drain...I wasn't driving enough to offset the loss in power...but I guess that meant there WAS something wrong anyways...

[SKperformance]

the seats are hooked up with a relay to shut them off also on a keyed vdc wire setup

if anything do you leave your lights in the auto on/off position?

[nicksan]

SK,

I always turn the lights off. I'm so used to this that I never really use the auto mode.

So you don't think the fact that the heated seats were wired wrong has anything to do with the short?

Other elctrical failure I've had include clock going out, ashtray not working, and the little square box around the gear indicator in the instrument panel (D,R,1,etc...by the odeometer area, not the gear box) was out for the "D" position.

They were all fixed under warranty...

I remember a while back, I was messing around with the ashtray b/c it was rattling pretty bad. I was trying to position the lighter in the slot at different positions to determine if that was causing the problem.

I do remember some kind of eceltrical crackle during that...it's not like I was messing around with the lighter...I was just putting the lighter in the socket...all the way in, half way in, etc...

I wonder if that screwed things...coincidently I've had problems since that point...coincidently I say...but up to that point I didn't have a problem...

[SKperformance]

it sounds liek you have had some work in the armrest area done

i know on mine the srs ecu is under their amyeb it was replaced?

which would require the heated seat switches to be disconnected and they basically plug into either side switch easily ,so it is an easy mixup not a real wiring problem

[nicksan]

I see, so that wouldn't be the source for the drain.

Otherwise, as I mentioned, I had Lexus put in a remote starter pre delivery.

When I was talking to the service manager about the mixup with the heated seats, I also mentioned to him about the battery dying. The first thing he asked me was if I had any aftermarket accessories.

I told him I had the remote starter installed when I purchased the car from them.

He said OK...then he just went in there with some tools and 5 minutes later he said the heated seats were fixed...and they were.

Funny...I brought the car in maybe 2 months ago with some other things, and had also mentioned to them about the heated seats. They were never fixed until my last visit!

So makes you wonder what they actually do, when you go to get your car serviced?

Drink coffee all day long and do nothing?

I complained about my steering wheel vibrating at 65mph. I told them to check the tires, alignment, whatever...just check to see why it's vibrating. The answer I got was "We could not reproduce the problem"....yeah just like they couldn't reproduce the problem with the heated seats.

I think the lesson here is if you want something fixed, something symptomatic, like vibrations, ALWAYS take a test run with the service manager. I'm sure most of you know this. But it was disturbing experiencing this myself. Because having the service manager involved could mean getting things done and not getting things done.

It is truly disappointing to see that Lexus does this kind of B.S. also.

Oh well...

[atl_es300]

the dealer and lexus is convinced that the reason we are having our battery problems is due to our low mileage and infrequent driving habit.

[nicksan]

For me it's a double edged sword.

I would drive it if I feel it is reliable.

I don't feel that way, so I don't!

Actually I do turn on the engine, warm it up for a few minutes, then move it over to the other side of the road on alternate parking days here in NY. That's Tue and Wed...so I typicall move the car at least once or twice during the week, albeit just literally a few feet across the street!

But that's because my house is under renovation. (That's a nother nightmare...makes my ES problem look tame!)

Anyways, I used to have a 99 Acura TL. I would have that thing garaged for weeks at a time, and never had a problem with it starting.

So, like ATL says, I think it's a load of crap about Lexus's theory about driving frequency. Something is fishy with our cars.

[nicksan]

OK, it's been 5 days and the car starts up fine.

However I feel that with each passing day it doesn't start up the way it did on Monday when I got it back from Lexus. It takes more time.

Also, last night I noticed when I turned on the cabin light, it had a slight flicker...maybe a tell tale sign that the battery is not juiced up?

We shall see...but this week I pretty much followed my usual driving pattern since I almost always prefer my SUV.

Tuesday: Drove it around the block and parked it across the street for alternate side parking.

Wedesday: Nothing

Thursday: Picked up my wife at the train station which is a 5 minute drive.

Friday: Went to Mac's to get a mean...5 minutes...

Today: Went to the local mechanic to have new tires installed on my SUV...so I drove the ES so me and my wife can drive back...5 minutes.

SO does this constiture enough driving so that the battery won't drain due to the parasitic drains people are talking about?

[SKperformance]

not really

it usually takes 5-10 minutes befroe an alternator will provide a full charge to the battery while powering the car as well

after it has used the battery to start to return the charge used

[atl_es300]

we were told that we must drive it at least 20 miles (ie highway) at high speed (at least 55 mph) continuously for something like 20 minutes every week or some such. we are going to try and get that in writing.

[lenore]

we were told that we must drive it at least 20 miles (ie highway) at high speed (at least 55 mph) continuously for something like 20 minutes every week or some such.  we are going to try and get that in writing.

←

Todays alternators put out 14.5 volts instantly and driving at city speeds should sufficiently charge the system. I think you have a short, and those can be difficult to find. They should be able to put a current meter in line with the battery with the car off and determine the amount of draw. most cars with power doors, etc. will draw something. If they really do not have this specification than they could check the draw on a like vehicle with everything turned off and compare. Corrosion on starter, battery, and main harness leads could cause poor charging in your car. Batterys do go bad, Alternators could have a shorting diode inside which could drain the battery. could be most anywhere. good luck

[SKperformance]

I think they recommended highway driving as it is less taxing on the electrical system as city involves using the brakes at idle which are a major draw

even with instant 14.5 vdc it still take time to charge a battery

[atl_es300]

lenore,

thanks for the info, but supposedly they have already run ALL the tests, and they say everything is normal. there is no unusal draw on the battery and the alternator is not bad. since the dealer and lexus is sticking with their driving distance/time theory, we want it in writing. we can't think of anything else to do besides getting rid of the car, which is basically brand new since we drive is so infrequently.

[nicksan]

That sounds ridiculous to me.

As I said before, I had a 1999 Acura 3.2Tl sitting in the garage for weeks at a time and it started up just fine.

I used to have a Maxima.

I left it in the garage for about 2 months without ever touching it.

Engine wouldn't start...

I had to replace the battery for that one...but never a problem since then.

It's really ridiculous in my situation since it's not like there is no activity for a month. I ALWAYS turn the engine on at least twice a week. Sure, I may not drive it 20 miles each time...and sometimes it's just to drive it to the other side of the street after warming the car up for 10 - 15 min..

So I guess according to Lexus that's not enough activity?

That to me is completely ridiculous and if that is true, I am supremely disappointed at Lexus and most of all with myself that I made a decision to sell my 99 TL to get the ES300.

Should have kept the TL or bought a 2004 TL...god knows the 04TL looks tons better than the ES...

[Unlisted]

have the remote starter disconnected and then see. probably causing battery drain for one reason or another.

[splinter]

Hi, everyone. New to the site and new Lexus owner (since March). My wife and I have the same battery/startup problem with our '96 ES. Though it had low mileage when we got it (around 80 000 miles in 8 years), we average 20 000 to 30 000 miles (that's between 30 000 and 50 000 kilometers) a year, so we definitely don't let our vehicle sit around at all.

We have had the problem for months, replaced the battery and everything was great until the cold weather and then things got worse. Now, it won't start most days when its cold (I know, a block heater would help a lot), but the problem is not always cold related. Moreso like your ongoing problem. We are sending it to the local Lexus dealer to investigate. Our fingers are crossed.