Considering New Es Purchse.

[trout]

I am in the market and had my heart set on the new 05 mercedes c230 sport sedan but I am worried about quality....long term.

I am looking to keep this car for 7 yrs or longer. My wife has been happy with her rx300 so far and lexus seems to be top quality.

Can you guys offer any opinions as far as a the lexus being a long term car? Any suggestions? I am considering the ES and the IS as well.

Anyone know what some of the best lease options lexus has on either leftover 04's or 05 ES's? Anyone know what deals the 'december to remember' might offer?

Thanks.

[SW03ES]

You dont want to lease an 04, you would want to lease an 05. Carryover cars are good for purchasing but not for leasing because a lease is figured on the residual value of the car, 04s already have a year of depreciation. Lexus has some AWESOME lease deals right now during the December to Remember. Check out the calculators on www.lexus.com.

I drove all 3 of those cars you mentioned and REALLY didn't like the C class. Its really not comparable to the ES, its much smaller, feels cheaper, rides harder, less features. It compares pretty well to the IS. The ES is kinda odd because its sized and proportioned like say a mid optioned E320 but priced closer to the C class. The IS is okay but not what I was looking for.

I think you'll like the ES, its an extraordinary bargain for the price.

[trout]

Check out the calculators on www.lexus.com

Does the calculator actually use the special lease rates for the event or does it just give you the normal lease rates?

[SW03ES]

It uses the best rates at the moment.

Don't forget to figure in the discount off MSRP, you should be able to get at least $3500 off of an ES330.

[Lexusfreak]

I agree with sw, the Mercedes C class would be on par with the IS not the ES which is a different animal since it's FWD. IMO, the ES is the better value car as it's larger with a more powerful engine & better use of interior room & yes go for an 05 not an 04. It's probably best to drive all 3 before making a decision. Mercedes has lost bigtime in the last several years with quality problems, including recalls.......where as Lexus keeps getting top rankings year after year. If your plan is to keep the car for 7 years, I would definatly put Lexus on your 'short list' over the Mercedes.....just my 2 cents. :) Where abouts are you from trout? B)

[trout]

I agree with sw, the Mercedes C class would be on par with the IS not the ES which is a different animal since it's FWD.  IMO, the ES is the better value car as it's larger with a more powerful engine & better use of interior room & yes go for an 05 not an 04.  It's probably best to drive all 3 before making a decision.  Mercedes has lost bigtime in the last several years with quality problems, including recalls.......where as Lexus keeps getting top rankings year after year.  If your plan is to keep the car for 7 years, I would definatly put Lexus on your 'short list' over the Mercedes.....just my 2 cents.  :)  Where abouts are you from trout?    B)

 

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Thats my thinking. My wife however had an ES as a loaner when her rx was in for service and thinks it a little too ...(not sure what word Im looking for). She felt like it was more a big family car and that I would last longer in a sporty car. My previous cars are dodge ram hemi, which i currently drive and is for sale, and before that it was a miata, and before that it was a mustangGT so i am more inclined to sporty cars. I will check them both out though while Im at the dealer.

Im in SC.

[SW03ES]

There's nothing sporty about the ES. Thats part of what makes it so different from the other cars in its class. Since Lexus has the IS they decided to make the ES a "baby LS" and make it fully a luxury car with the best ride and most noise insulation possible for its price point. Now, *I* like that. I love sporty cars, but I like to drive sporty cars when I'm out to have fun. When I'm driving around every day, working and on trips and such I want the smoothest ride I can get. One of these days I plan on buying something, maybe a Corvette to keep forever as a third weekend fun car but thats a few years down the road.

If *you* like a sporty ride then the ES isn't your car. I also probably wouldn't reccomend the IS simply because its all sport and no luxury which I don't think you'll want either. You might want to add into your list the Acura TL and the Infiniti G35. Both are great cars and will last you as long as the Lexus will. Resale may not be as good, but if you're looking for 7-10 years that doesn't matter as much. Both are also much sportier than the ES for a similar price.

Now Mercedes and BMWs WILL last forever, you've just got to keep up on them. They're not going to be as much "drive it and forget it" as a Japanese car. BMWs and Benzes get very costly to maintain as they age. Lexuses, Infinitis, Acuras will last forever too but they're a little gentler in their old age.

[Lexusfreak]

If you get the ES.....get the AVS suspension option as that's the 'sportiest' if will get lol. :)

[SW03ES]

Can't get the AVS in SC. The car is a "little" sportier now with the 17 inch wheels...

[SW03ES]

Another thing I JUST realized. If you're going to keep the car 7 years don't lease it! Leasing can be great, I lease but only if you turn the car in after the lease is up and get another one. If you set out knowing that you're going to be keeping the car 7 years and you lease then buy it out you wind up spending as if the car loan had like a 20% interest rate. You can get a finance payment down pretty close to a lease payment nowadays by financing for 72 months, thats the smartest thing to di if you're going to keep it.

[gansta]

Okay here's my observation:

I test drove the C-class and very disappointed. The steering was very heavy, like the two front tires were flat. The supercharge 4cyl is not too impressive. Not worth the money. MB should trash this model as not MB like.

Never drove the IS and went straight for the ES. Very nice riding vehicle with rich interior. The 05 (though not sporty incomparison to its competitors) has nice upgrades with the new 17" rims, chrome features. The luxury got me and I bought the 05.

[SKperformance]

I persoanlly think a C class is a small commuter or someon who wants to say they have a Mercdes ,it is tiny inside is really slow and the finish is cheap feeling.

The IS is more sporty but i think you would probably be more comfortable long term in a 3 series bmw than a lexus unless you want something larger like a GS.

[SKperformance]

I forgot the new C55 which is available shortly now that car is much better for speed and handling but limited production and a waste of money

[Tsquared]

Test drive the ES 330 and then go test drive the E-class. You will be disapointed with the MB. There is a quality and ride differance between them and that is why I purchased the '05 ES 330. The ES wins hands down. You must go with the top of the line on both to get all the features to compare the two.

If you want a comfortable ride that handels well, then it is the ES 330. To me the ES does not have a "sporty" feel but that is why I have a 944 Turbo...

Missed th initial topic of a C class vs. IS or possibly a ES. For a sporty car that is not in the sports car class there are quite a few choices as there is a large market segment here. Again I would shy away from the MB because of recent history on reliability unless you are looking for a status symbol. I like European cars but the quality has dropped off the "premium" euro-boxes.

[gansta]

First of all, I'm new to the site and thank you all for the great comments.

Secondly, not to sell short the MB...I think folks are buying the C-Class are looking for the MB status. The MB E-Class and above owners actually frown upon the C-Class and carries no status with them according to several MB folks I know.

I also forgot to mention in my previous post that I also drove the 04 Acura TL. Great car if you're looking for something fast, however short on luxury. I'd choose the TL over the C-Class and my first choice being the 05 ES, luxury features superior and more value for the money.

[steviej]

First of all, I'm new to the site and thank you all for the great comments.

Secondly, not to sell short the MB...I think folks are buying the C-Class are looking for the MB status. 

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First of all, Welcome to the club.

Secondly, that is called good marketing on MB's part. ;)

steviej

[Lexusfreak]

Can't get the AVS in SC. The car is a "little" sportier now with the 17 inch wheels...

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Not even on a factroy order? That's suprising.

In the long run from a cost of ownership standpoint (maintenance, repairs reputation etc) I would have Lexus at the top of my list and all the awards Lexus has won (dozens +) is proof of that reliability compared to MB. Something to keep in mind if your planning to keep the car 7+ years. B)

[SW03ES]

Oh you can get anything special factory order, they can even paint the car any Lexus color you want, but you have to wait and it kills any discount off MSRP. They just don't build/ship the ES to the east coast with the AVS, I don't know why. You can get them on the west coast and as you know in Canada.

Another thing to factor in is BMW' free maintenance for the first 4yrs 50k.

[Lexusfreak]

Oh you can get anything special factory order, they can even paint the car any Lexus color you want, but you have to wait and it kills any discount off MSRP. They just don't build/ship the ES to the east coast with the AVS, I don't know why. You can get them on the west coast and as you know in Canada.

Another thing to factor in is BMW' free maintenance for the first 4yrs 50k.

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I wonder why the AVS option is not popular on the east coast of the U.S. Folks like Consumer Reports rave about the feature & suggest one that get's the ES get that option.

[SW03ES]

I don't know, Lexus has several weird packaging choices. For instance on the east coast it is very hard to get chrome wheels...except in Florida while almost all cars in CA come with chromes.

Actually all the reviews I read said to stay away from the AVS because it feels too firm in sport and too soft in comfort, and the middle setting feels like the normal susp.

[Lexusfreak]

I leave the setting in the second most firm position except when I drove thru Michigan on my way to Florida......had to leave it on the softest setting because of the aweful roads. :whistles: One benefits getting the AVS option when buying used......you don't pay for it like you would on a new ES. ;)

[SW03ES]

Until it breaks ;)

[Lexusfreak]

Until it breaks ;)

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That's what the extended warranty is for ;) Haven't heard of any problems with the AVS anyways. B)