Buying Mercedes, But May Keep Lexus Too....

[ec437]

Hard to believe, but that was the case on this truck.  My uncle bought it brand new in March of 1988.  When my dad bought it, he asked my uncle when he last changed the timing belt and his answer was "I have never changed the belt".  My dad changed it that same week.  It was indeed the original.  The belt was so worn that it was paper thin.  Nissan must make good timing belts.  I am suprised that one did not snap a long time ago.   

:o  :o  :o

How is it even physically possible for a timing belt not to break when it is  TWO-HUNDERED-THOUSAND miles old?!?

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holy damn. you're supposed to change timing chains more than that.

[90LS400Lexus]

I know, but he is not known for maintaining cars properly.

One of my fathers friends has a 92 Nissan truck with the same engine and his timing belt snapped at 152K and it had been replaced before, so he was not as lucky.

[90LS400Lexus]

To update- I sold my OLD, high mileage Lexus this afternoon for $3000. I sold it for $1000 less than I paid a year ago, but I did put about 15K on it, so I guess I really did not lose anything. I am trying to look at the bright sides. A younger lady (pharmacist) bought it that works at the pharmacy where we get my grandparents medicines. She had a new Malibu that she recently totalled and she needed another car, but did not want a payment. She drove it to a mechanics and when she came back she said "I will take it". When I took the car to her a little while ago, she said that the mechanic told her "this is a great car- you had better jump on this one"- which she did. Her mother has a 00' Accord EX sedan and she drove the Lexus back from the mechanics and when she exited the car, she said "I am going to trade her my Honda for this car". I am glad she is pleased. It is a great car, and as I mentioned, the problems were actually "annoyances", but it may not bother other people like it did me.

Believe it or not- I had 7 different callers about the car today. I guess most people just read the Sunday papers. :P

Thanks to all for the help they have offered to me over the past year I have owned this car. Great people here. I will not be a stranger and will still visit and post here from time to time. Who knows- maybe someday I will purchase a LOW mile/new Lexus.

Some of you may rejoice- tired of hearing my complaints. :)

[93LSOwner]

Hey, cool. The Lex is sold. :)

Yeah, stick around. You are going to be purchasing another car, and might need some suggestions and opinions. :whistles:

Also, you did not include the decreased book value of the car, in that $1,000 you lost after the resale. ;)

[SW03ES]

Congratulations, I'm glad you were finally able to get it sold. I guess its all in how you advertise it huh?

Please do stick around! Once a member of the LOC family always a member of the LOC family, Lexus or no Lexus!

[ec437]

Yeah, stick around. You are going to be purchasing another car, and might need some suggestions and opinions.:whistles:

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*cough* BMW!!! *cough*

feel free to consider me the resident expert on all bavarian vehicles. :P

[SW03ES]

If he had minor annoyances with the Lexus, the LAST thing he needs is a BMW ;)

[90LS400Lexus]

Thanks guys. Yes, I was glad to sell it, but I was also glad to see it go to a good home. Since I have to go often to Wal-Greens pharmacy where the girl works, at least I will be able to see it all of the time. ;) Hopefully it will not start falling completely apart- or else I will have to send someone else for the meds. :P

Yes, I had a BMW before and was very displeased. It was a 1982 733i. I have to say, that car had SUPER SUPER handling and the power was amazing and it did not even have the original engine. It had a smaller engine out of a 5-series. I had ELECTRICAL problems galore. I finally sold it for $700 if I recall. My cousin has a 1985 BMW 633 2dr and he loves his, but it is still in mint condition. Had some problems, but overall, it is good (for now). Also too, another cousin has a 1992 BMW 535i and her son has a 1993 735iL and they love their cars and claim that the cars have been trouble free.

I was considering Mercedes, but the folks here, as well as my father talked me out of it. <_< My uncle has a 89' 300E wagon, that has 161K now and is still in perfect order, but I want to stay away from "complex" cars for now, as well as high mileage cars.

I am going tomorrow to look at a 1998 Chevrolet Tahoe with 70K and a couple of low mileage late 90s Camrys that I have been thinking about for a couple of days.

I was going to buy a brand new car, but from what I can tell, they are nowhere near the quality that they were 10 years ago- which is sad. I have looked at several 2004-2005 models and have discovered many models with mis-aligned panels/cheap interior materials.

[ec437]

If he had minor annoyances with the Lexus, the LAST thing he needs is a BMW ;)

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The only minor annoyances I had with my 17 year old, high mileage bmw that had been totaled twice and been in 2 other accidents was that the radio quit working. (The frame was still straight too, even after so much damage!) I suspect that there was simply a loose connection inside the radio. Everything else functioned perfectly. And as long as you have a voltometer, the internet, and a set of metric sockets, any fool can chase down electrical gremlins, of which I had none.

What problems did you have? I could probably tell you what was wrong with it.

Also, do they use salt where you live? Salt can wreak havoc on BMW electrical systems.

[90LS400Lexus]

They sometimes salt the roads here when it snows, but we do not get that much snow here- even in the higher elevations of the state- they may salt the roads two-three times all winter if that, maybe 10 times during the worst winter- so basically, no. However, the car was originally from up north and it had some rust spots from when it was up there, because rust is not a problem on cars originally from here. On average- only about 15 inches per year here in the higher terrain of NE Tennessee, (nothing compared to the northern teer states) but we have not even seen an average of 5 inches of snow over the past few years.

My problems were as follows (if I recall- as this was several years ago): The low washer, as well as some other warning lights on the left side of the dash in the "message center" were illuminated, even when nothing was wrong. If I recall, I think one was a "low oil" lamp that was illuminated- even when the oil was full. The radio had been removed when I got it and there were excessive exposed wires in that radio hole area. NONE of the HVAC controls would work and the fuse was good. The power window switches on the console were constantly illuminated, even with the car off and keys removed. The only way to get those lights off, was to disconnect the battery. The main thing was a sensor on the engine. If it was plugged up, the car would not start when the engine was hot. When it was unplugged, it would not start when it was cold. .

I also think that the car had been hit in the front before and something was loose, because when I would press down on the front bumper, the entire front fender would move outward in the center around the wheelwell. It was probably a good car, but it had obviously seen abuse and as mentioned, it was originally a northern car- which seems to create more wear and tear on a car.

If he had minor annoyances with the Lexus, the LAST thing he needs is a BMW ;)

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The only minor annoyances I had with my 17 year old, high mileage bmw that had been totaled twice and been in 2 other accidents was that the radio quit working. (The frame was still straight too, even after so much damage!) I suspect that there was simply a loose connection inside the radio. Everything else functioned perfectly. And as long as you have a voltometer, the internet, and a set of metric sockets, any fool can chase down electrical gremlins, of which I had none.

What problems did you have? I could probably tell you what was wrong with it.

Also, do they use salt where you live? Salt can wreak havoc on BMW electrical systems.

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[ec437]

My problems were as follows (if I recall- as this was several years ago):  The low washer, as well as some other warning lights on the left side of the dash in the "message center" were illuminated, even when nothing was wrong.

Probably a loose connection in the engine bay, possibly a bad ground. I could likely have fixed it in an afternoon.

If I recall, I think one was a "low oil" lamp that was illuminated- even when the oil was full.

That would probably be a bad sensor. Easy fix.

The radio had been removed when I got it and there were excessive exposed wires in that radio hole area.  NONE of the HVAC controls would work and the fuse was good.

You mean the fan controls wouldn't work? Probably bad resistors on the fan. Also fixed in a weekend with a few parts off ebay.

The power window switches on the console were constantly illuminated, even with the car off and keys removed.  The only way to get those lights off, was to disconnect the battery.

They're supposed to do that on your model. If they don't do that, then you have a bad relay, but fortunately yours were working correctly :D

The main thing was a sensor on the engine.  If it was plugged up, the car would not start when the engine was hot.  When it was unplugged, it would not start when it was cold.    . 

Bad thermostat. comeon, you gotta give me something at least a little harder! :)

I also think that the car had been hit in the front before and something was loose, because when I would press down on the front bumper, the entire front fender would move outward in the center around the wheelwell.  It was probably a good car, but it had obviously seen abuse and as mentioned, it was originally a northern car- which seems to create more wear and tear on a car.

Yes, it probably had been in an accident, and yes, it was a good car, and yes, I could have fixed all of its problems given a week and a voltometer. :P

[90LS400Lexus]

Too bad you were not around when I had the car. Strange about the window switch lights. I would have never guessed that they were supposed to always

be illuminated. I thought there was an electrical short somewhere, so I always disconnected the battery. About the HVAC controls, not only was the fan "dead", but it was like the entire system was dead. Nothing would work. The buttons pressed in like there was nothing there.

[ec437]

About the HVAC controls, not only was the fan "dead", but it was like the entire system was dead.  Nothing would work.  The buttons pressed in like there was nothing there.

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Huh. Thats odd...

I've never specifically dealt with the e23, so I'd have to see it in person to fix that. From the pictures of the interior that I can find, I'm not sure what would cause that problem. Did the tempature control knob turn freely with no resistance? I think that car used a mechanical connection to control the temperature. As for the buttons, thats an electrical issue. It could easily be related to those stripped wires behind the radio, although it could also be other things, such as a bad ground somewhere (less likely, but possible), or a loose connection in the fuse box or something. I'd have to get under the dash with a flashlight and a screwdriver to figure it out, although I'm reasonably confident I could have fixed it with some elctrical tape and needlenose pliars. :D

You, my friend, need to learn some troubleshooting skills :P

[SW03ES]

Thats the matra of all the BMWphiles I've known "They're just little problems!" "You need to learn some troubleshooting skills!" or "These cars are just tempermental" or "They have character, unlike that Lexus". Well if having no character means it always runs properly then I'm pleased my Lexus doesn't have any. Why would I want to buy a car thats going to have its electrical system go screwy if I drive it on salty roads? Thats not "a thing" with BMW, thats poor engineering...

I like my $40,000 purchase to run, and stay out of the shop. I don't want to nor should I have to learn any troubleshooting skills.

[ec437]

Thats the matra of all the BMWphiles I've known "They're just little problems!" "You need to learn some troubleshooting skills!" or "These cars are just tempermental" or "They have character, unlike that Lexus". Well if having no character means it always runs properly then I'm pleased my Lexus doesn't have any. Why would I want to buy a car thats going to have its electrical system go screwy if I drive it on salty roads? Thats not "a thing" with BMW, thats poor engineering...

I like my $40,000 purchase to run, and stay out of the shop. I don't want to nor should I have to learn any troubleshooting skills.

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:chairshot:

every car owner needs to know troubleshooting skills!

I guess to own a classic BMW you have to be a do-it-yourselfer.

[SW03ES]

Or any BMW thats out of warranty ;)

[ec437]

Or any BMW thats out of warranty ;)

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So I take it you don't know how to upgrade a camshaft? :P

[SW03ES]

Nor do I care to B)

[ec437]

Nor do I care to  B)

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Meh, you people are obviously a different breed than am I. BMW owners want good performance and good handling in a sexy looking package. They (at least older BMW enthusiasts) are the type that want to get their hands dirty working on their own car, they want to know what is going on inside that engine. They install their own suspension, they work on their own engine, then they drive the contraption around the course at speeds of sheer insanity. Why? I have no idea. But its a lot of fun.

From what I can tell, you lexus people are the ones that just drive it. You want a comfortable seat on a machine that only your mechanic knows about. You're the ones that ask for more sound deadening material, not caring about the extra weight. We're the ones that rip out the carpets just to peel off the foam sprayed underneath. After all, if you stripped the whole car of the stuff, you could save a couple tenths of a second off your ET! :P

So I guess a BMW isn't for everyone. :D

Although if either of us ever breaks down on the side of the road, I'll be up and running within the hour using stuff in the trunk, and you'll still be waiting for roadside assitance :P

[SW03ES]

LOL, if BMW owners are as DIY as you say, why does BMW now offer all scheduled maintenance free at the dealer? There had to have been some sort of demand for that. I have a client that has a new BMW 530i, I noticed it had a nail in the tire and showed her and her response was "Wow...will that give me a flat eventually?" LOL, THAT is the typical BMW owner. Face it, people that fork over the small fortunes it costs to buy these cars new or lightly used simply aren't interested in doing their own maintenance anymore. For one thing the more complex these cars get, the more difficult it becomes to do so, but mostly its just out of laziness. I love cars and I'm reasonably knowledgable. More about the industry than the mechanics but knowledgable nonetheless. The fact of the matter is though, the extent at which i have the time or the desire to do things to my car myself is washing it and detailing it. Thats all I'm interested in doing to it. I'm more than thrilled to drop it off at the dealer and let them do the maintenance. I'm just not interested in doing it myself. As for modifications, no real interest in that either. Thats not unique to Lexus owners though BMW owners are the same way.

Look around here and other Lexus forums, PLENTY of Lexus owners into doing their own work and doing all kinds of modifications, even on brand new cars. What you have to understand though is these people are the vast minority when compared to most owners of all of these cars, Mercedes, Lexus, BMW doesn't make a difference. "there are people who do that sort of thing" thats the mentality at work here.

Although if either of us ever breaks down on the side of the road, I'll be up and running within the hour using stuff in the trunk, and you'll still be waiting for roadside assitance

See thats the whole point you're missing, as a BMW owner you have to be prepared for that sort of thing. I drive a Lexus, my car runs. Everyday. No being broken down on the side of the road for me. ;)

When I push a button, it does what its SUPPOSED TO DO! I can drive it in the salt, I can drive it in the rain, it runs the same regardless, I can drive it for 250,000 miles and my biggest complaints will be a clunky suspension and a sunbleached dashboard. I know BMW owners that can't say that after 60k miles!

[ec437]

LOL, if BMW owners are as DIY as you say, why does BMW now offer all scheduled maintenance free at the dealer? There had to have been some sort of demand for that. I have a client that has a new BMW 530i, I noticed it had a nail in the tire and showed her and her response was "Wow...will that give me a flat eventually?" LOL, THAT is the typical BMW owner. Face it, people that fork over the small fortunes it costs to buy these cars new or lightly used simply aren't interested in doing their own maintenance anymore. For one thing the more complex these cars get, the more difficult it becomes to do so, but mostly its just out of laziness. I love cars and I'm reasonably knowledgable. More about the industry than the mechanics but knowledgable nonetheless. The fact of the matter is though, the extent at which i have the time or the desire to do things to my car myself is washing it and detailing it. Thats all I'm interested in doing to it. I'm more than thrilled to drop it off at the dealer and let them do the maintenance. I'm just not interested in doing it myself. As for modifications, no real interest in that either. Thats not unique to Lexus owners though BMW owners are the same way.

Look around here and other Lexus forums, PLENTY of Lexus owners into doing their own work and doing all kinds of modifications, even on brand new cars. What you have to understand though is these people are the vast minority when compared to most owners of all of these cars, Mercedes, Lexus, BMW doesn't make a difference. "there are people who do that sort of thing" thats the mentality at work here.

Although if either of us ever breaks down on the side of the road, I'll be up and running within the hour using stuff in the trunk, and you'll still be waiting for roadside assitance

See thats the whole point you're missing, as a BMW owner you have to be prepared for that sort of thing. I drive a Lexus, my car runs. Everyday. No being broken down on the side of the road for me. ;)

When I push a button, it does what its SUPPOSED TO DO! I can drive it in the salt, I can drive it in the rain, it runs the same regardless, I can drive it for 250,000 miles and my biggest complaints will be a clunky suspension and a sunbleached dashboard. I know BMW owners that can't say that after 60k miles!

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The BMW owners I'm talking about are the enthusiasts of the older BMW's. ie, the e30, the e30 m3, the e28, the e28 m5, the original 6 series, the m6, the bavaria, the 2002, the 1800, the 3.0's, and all the antiquated models that you have never heard of, including the motorcycles. I am one of these. Granted, owners of new(er) BMWs are, more often than not, completely oblivious to all things mechanical. But when you find someone that has an classic BMW that is in near showroom condition, then you know you have found who I am talking about. This may not be a fair comparison, but it is the group of BMW owners that I am most familiar with... Besides, in 10-20 years, the BMW's that are new now will be in the hands of the classic bimmer enthusiasts.

BMW's are only unrealiable if you neglect them. They are not unrealiable vehicles, they are high maitenance vehicles, and were designed to be as such. HUGE difference, and maintaining our own car is part of the satisfaction that us classic BMW drivers get from our cars. They are very reliable and will last a long, long time without ever breaking down if properly mantained, and keeping them mantained is not such a huge task, either.

PS: my BMW, in 163,000 miles of life, did never once leave its owner on the side of the road. :)

[blake918]

Nor do I care to  B)

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From what I can tell, you lexus people are the ones that just drive it. You want a comfortable seat on a machine that only your mechanic knows about. You're the ones that ask for more sound deadening material, not caring about the extra weight. We're the ones that rip out the carpets just to peel off the foam sprayed underneath. After all, if you stripped the whole car of the stuff, you could save a couple tenths of a second off your ET! :P

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Very true!! :D But, a lot of us here do a lot of diy work. Fluids, brakes, and taking the interior apart are very easy. Some engine maintinance can be a pain in the &#33;Removed&#33;(timing belt comes to mind!). I want a smooth quiet car to get me around. Lexus are just relaxing to drive! I can't tell you the last time I took a hair-pin turn at 50 on the way to work. IMO, the suspension trade off is just not worth the sporty driving that I might do 1% of the time. I'd buy a weekend sports car for that. But, to each his own of course! ;) There is a guy with a '97 ES(sunnman-his modifications are amazingly tasteful) that has completely gutted his car to install more sound deadening in the flooring and doors! Lexus is all about quiet! B)

What kind of maintinance procedures are you talking about(when you say they are high maintinance cars)?

When I push a button, it does what its SUPPOSED TO DO! I can drive it in the salt, I can drive it in the rain, it runs the same regardless, I can drive it for 250,000 miles and my biggest complaints will be a clunky suspension and a sunbleached dashboard.

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I don't know what you're talking about lol...bleached dash(especially on your car...it's probably been coated with 303 since day one! lol)-seriously, my LS's dash is fine in that respect! I'm sure if you'd hold it next to a new one it'd be different, but it is still dark. I'd add dead LCD's(minus navi cars) as another thing that will eventually break on every '90-'00 LS.

[SW03ES]

BMW's are only unrealiable if you neglect them. They are not unrealiable vehicles, they are high maitenance vehicles, and were designed to be as such. HUGE difference, and maintaining our own car is part of the satisfaction that us classic BMW drivers get from our cars. They are very reliable and will last a long, long time without ever breaking down if properly mantained, and keeping them mantained is not such a huge task, either.

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Thats just simply not true. I can name your probably 10 people off the top of my head who purchased brand new BMWs and then had serious reliability and quality problems right after purchase, some of them getting new cars from BMW and some of them selling the cars themselves within a matter of months after purchase. My dad has a client that had an LS400 and traded it on a 750iL. He had so many problems he sold it 3 months later and bought an LS430 at a substantial loss. I'm not saying ALL BMWs have these problems, but they definately have more reliability and quality issues than Lexus, Acura, Infiniti, Cadillac, or Lincoln. I believe they're still rated higher than Mercedes though. This has been proven through comparitive owner surveys.

High maintenance vehicles and are designed to be as such? Thats something all BMWophiles say and it doesn't make any sense. You're saying they DESIGN the electrical systems to get screwy if driven on salty roads or that they DESIGN simple convenience components such as power windows and navigation systems that exhibit electrical gremlins that cause irreperable system failures? They didn't design these things that way, its poor engineering.

I'm not saying BMWs are bad cars but saying they're reliable cars is far from the truth, all the evidence supports the OPPOSITE of that view.

HUGE difference, and maintaining our own car is part of the satisfaction that us classic BMW drivers get from our cars.

Thats another thing BMWophiles always purport, that they are the only true enthusiast and owners of "lesser" vehicles like Lexus, Mercedes, whatever simply aren't enthusiasts or car people. Thats simply rediculous, like I said before, look around these and other Lexus forums and you will find PLENTY of tuners, PLENTY of DIYers, and PLENTY of people that track race their cars. Thats not unique to BMW owners and they don't corner the market on car enthusiasts.

PS: my BMW, in 163,000 miles of life, did never once leave its owner on the side of the road.

Niether has my Ford Explorer, but I'd never call it well built or reliable.

[SW03ES]

The BMW owners I'm talking about are the enthusiasts of the older BMW's. ie, the e30, the e30 m3, the e28, the e28 m5, the original 6 series, the m6, the bavaria, the 2002, the 1800, the 3.0's, and all the antiquated models that you have never heard of

And I have heard of every one of those models, could point them out in pictures and could give you a breif general timeline of their lineage. Again, please stop talking to me like I'm not a car enthusiast because I don't have a BMW.

[Lexicon]

The BMW owners I'm talking about are the enthusiasts of the older BMW's. ie, the e30, the e30 m3, the e28, the e28 m5, the original 6 series, the m6, the bavaria, the 2002, the 1800, the 3.0's, and all the antiquated models that you have never heard of

And I have heard of every one of those models, could point them out in pictures and could give you a breif general timeline of their lineage. Again, please stop talking to me like I'm not a car enthusiast because I don't have a BMW.

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Just my .02 but all those BMW's were rust buckets also...I sold lots of replacement panels for those cars.... ;)