Saw The New 05 Cadillac Sts In Person...

[GSsoldier]

Geo=Saturn=Pontiac=Oldmobile=Buick=Cadillac and now even = Saab.

left out one they own part of SUBARU too... the newer saabs share engines as the wrx....

SW, u are great man, always has high ideals for this forum and no doubt life too, great guy man

[VBdenny]

I didn't know that about Saburu. I heard the WRXs are suppose to be very quick. I like watching the WRC Rally racing and even have the XBoX game. I have no problem with GM engines, I only ever had one to have a problem and that was a blown headgasket.

For a 4 litre engine, the LS sure does quite well. Not a big block but still very powerful for the size.

[SW03ES]

Thanks GS :D

As for Subaru they make some really nice vehicles, expensive for their market but nice. The new Legacy is very nice, electroluminescent guages, 280hp, nice build and materials really nice car.

The problem with GM has never really been their mechanicals, GM engines are some of the best in the industry, their transmissions are so good they're used in BMWs. The problem is how they put the vehicles together. GMs are notorious for falling apart when they still run fine.

[90LS400Lexus]

Even another that was forgotten about GM is HUMMER. If I am not mistaken, HUMMER is now a division of General Motors as well. I did not know about Subaru as well. Some here may not know- but GM and Toyota/Lexus have "joint-venture" models in the past and I do not know if it is true, but they share some stock. ?? I know that the Toyota Corolla and Chevrolet Prizm were the same car in the past. Not sure about the current models. I think the Prizm was cancelled.

Ford share (or have shared) models/parts with Nissan and Mazda.

** I agree 100% with SW03ES, as well as the others. I see nothing wrong with discussing other cars here. It helps compare other cars, as well as gain info about other cars that others here may have owned before. Just because someone once owns a Lexus, does not mean that they are not entitled to buy another make of car. Some people like changes. I drove ALL GM cars until 1997 and I bought my first Toyota. I have owned mostly Japanese cars since, but I have had a few GM cars since- such as Pontiac and Chevrolet.

Speaking of "Chevrolet" actually in the 1950s thru the 1970s, the Chevrolet was consistently the best selling car make in the USA ( I think Ford beat Chevrolet in sales only for about 2 years out of 20) and Chevrolets (as well as the old Plymouths and Fords) were typically always very reliable and well built cars for their time. I would still love to find another 71-73 Caprice. I had a 1971 Caprice- yes, it was a huge boat, but what a great car. :) I think Chevrolet usually beat Ford in sales, because most people seemed to like the Chevrolet styling better, but Ford was no slouch either- they sold millions of cars too and they were good. The 69-78 Ford LTDs set a new standard with quality. Doors aligned well and closed with a solid "thunk". Something that Chrysler lagged on and never really figured out.

Many people did not buy imports back in the 40s thru the 70s. Imports did not really start selling well in the USA until the 70s and really not that well until the 1980s- when American car quality declined.

I do agree that many USA makes still use low quality materials. It is good to know that great USA models are still being made. Buick (division of General Motors) have consistently been one of the highest and most reliable cars for years.

Not wanting to change the subject too much-

Still, a lot of the older American cars do not get as much credit as they deserve. What car originally had airbags? Initially- it was a rare option on the 1973 Chevrolets. Cancelled for 1974 on the Chevrolet, but was re-introduced (dual airbags) as an option on the 1974-1976 Oldsmobile 88/98/Toronado, Buick LeSabre/Electra/Riviera, and Cadillac DeVille/Fleetwood/Eldorado models on only 10000 models. It was cancelled for 1977 downsizing. My grandmother bought a new 1974 Oldsmobile Toronado, with the airbags option. The anti-lock braking (then called "sure track") system (as well as steel-belted radial tires) were introduced on the 1971 Lincoln Mark III and Cadillac Eldorado. 4-wheel disc brakes as early as the 1963? Corvette. I think Mercedes introduced "crumple zones", as well as the "collaspable" steering column. Mercedes re-introduced airbags in cars in 1984, as an option, as well as ABS brakes. BMW added airbag in 1986 and even Ford offered it as an option in 1986 on the Ford Tempo and Mercury Topaz. GM did not re-introduce airbags until 1990. Chrysler in 1989 (on the New Yorker) and Ford on many other models in 1990. Toyota-Lexus in 1990 (on the LS400/ES250/Celica/Supra), Acura in 1988 as an option on the Legend- standard for 89, or at least by 1990. Honda in 1991, on the Accord wagon.

Sorry- I do not mean to ramble on, but when I get started on car safety- I get carried away. I have no idea how I got started on that.... LOL

Edited September 11, 2004 by 90LS400Lexus

[SKperformance]

The time frame for the caddilac lap of luxury is 2-3 hours, i am going earily to go again if i have time.

I drove a Jag XKR ,well i must say it sounds nice and is comfortable but some stuf inside it is so cheaply made.

[blake918]

I certainly cannot agree that GM makes some of the best engines and trannys. The 350 in our '99 Suburban is far from a refined piece, but it does make the 3ton beast go like a bat out of hell. When it revs over 3500rpms, you can feel the engine vibrating under your feet. There is nothing "wrong" with the engine that would causee the vibrations; other Suburbans that I've been in do the same thing. And, a transmission that one day out of the blue decides to die at approx. 60k miles is not a good thing either. I was never impressed with the smoothness of the shifts either--slow, mushy upshifts and downshifts hurt my neck because they are so rough. lol It's not like we dogged the truck out either; it's main use was for carpooling. I'm stunned to hear that BMW uses GM transmissions. :o We had an Eddie Bauer Expedition 4x4 that was a great truck...great looking too. Never any problems, and it is far more refined than our Suburban. The only reason we got rid of it was because we needed something bigger. People like to bash Ford all the time--I dunno why; all cars have problems, but Ford problems are just unacceptable for some reason. We've had/and have several Fords(Expedition, '95 Cobra convt., '98 Mustang, and a LTD a long time ago), and they have all been wonderful autos. Everybody has their or someone else's horror stories to share about Fords, but they have always been good to us. When I was looking for my first car, I looked at some '00+ Tauruses; they are nice cars with a lot of room, but I opted for a Lexus. Sadly, I chose an ES300 just because of the name plate, and the interior is far more elegant with a 3.0 V6 that is second to none, but about 8 months later, I couldn't take the small size anymore(I was supposed to sell it in March, but I never did! lol), and that's when I got my LS. I don't regret the LS one bit! I love this car, and I plan to drive it to atleast 500k miles! B)

Hummer is a part of GM. The H2 is on a beefed up GM platform(I can't remember if it's a truck or Tahoe/Sub. platform) and it's got one of their Vortec engines. Very impressive safety tanget, '90. :D

I have no problem discussing other cars in here either. We're not like German and other Japanese car owners that think they drive Indy cars with back seats and navigation systems-->and are better than all other cars. Us Lexus owners know that our cars aren't sporty which ruins their entire argument(If I wanted something sporty, Acura TL and BMW 530 aren't the first things that comes to my mind. A sports car should not have 4 doors imo!), but we bought them for other reasons like quality, reliability, the smooth ride, and luxury. B) I look at all cars on equal ground, but I have a bad habbit of weighing the reliability and quality too heavily...a Lexus will do that to you!

[SW03ES]

The main word in there is "GM makes SOME of the best engines and transmissions in the Industry". The tranny failure on your Suburban is VERY rare, usually that tranny is bulletproof. The 3800 V6 used in GM cars like the Buick Regal, Pontiac Grand Prix etc consistently makes the 10 best engines list and the basic hardware its built upon is nearly 20 years old. The Northstar engine is legendary for being refined, powerful, and efficient. BMW isn't the only one to use GM transmissions, I believe Honda does as well as does Toyota on some models.

GM and Toyota have a joint partnership that brought about the Geo Prizm/Toyota Corolla and right now the Pontiac Vibe (which is a rebadged Toyota Matrix). In trade GM gives Toyota some rights to things like transmission design and some Delco components.

Ford's main problem isn't their products its how the company is run. Ford is about the worst run car company there is. Full of corporate wrongdoing and corruption, poor customer service and dealer support. Corruption leads to cars being built and put to market without proper quality control and that causes huge launch fiascos like with the Focus, the 2002 Explorer, the Lincoln LS its a real problem for them. They've definately got to get those issues in check before I ever buy another Ford product.

My Explorer has been pretty dissapointing reliabilitywise, the transmissions on 6 cyl Explorers are TERRIBLE with something like a 65% failure rate before 70k miles. Rattles are terrible, body integrity isn't great, it never drives by a dealer for less than $800 and the resale value is terrible. All in all the main problem with American cars is poor build quality and over saturation of dealer inventory that leads to really poor resale value.

[blake918]

I know you said SOME, but I don't associate GM with making engines that are tops in noise, vibration, and smoothness levels. I think Lexus/Toy, BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Honda/Acura, and Infiniti/Nissan...companies that have more than 2 noteworthy engines, Northstar and 3.8 series, out of the numerous, numerous engines they have created. ;)

The service manager at Sewell Caddy/Chevy(the coolest dealer...their entire inventory is indoors.) would certainly disagree with you that the Suburban tranny failure is very rare. He said they get a lot of Suburbans in with dead transmissions. The service manager said that they had a new brand manger(I think...or some other admin.) in 97 or 98, and in an effort to make more money they started cutting corners. They decided to skimp on a cheapo bearing, so it seized--incapacitating the transmission. Coincidently, a family member's 98 Suburban also experienced the same failure(the same bearing failed) as well as another one at the dealership. That hardly constitutes bulletproof in my book. Hmmmm...I wonder if Acura put a GM transmission in the TL? <_<

What kind of problems have you had with your Explorer? Is it the 4 or 5 liter? What kind of problems are they having with the LS, Focus, and Explorer? One of my friends has an '03 Explorer; the engine/tranny and ride are very nice, it looks great, but some of the materials inside are third rate(mainly the ac controls and the headliner is wobbley as if it isn't attached properly). I've never talked to him about the reliability, so I can't comment there.

[SW03ES]

Well the engine and drivetrain study reports disagree with you ;) I don't believe Toyota has any engines or transmissions that have been nominated for the list, GM has several (the 3800 is the only one I could think of off of the top of my head, engine and transmission model names aren't my area of expertise lol). Another engine that is on the list is the V6 out of the Maxima. I'll try and find some of the Ward's engine and transmission ratings. I'm not even sure how they rate them. All I know is that GM has recieved several accolades for their engines and transmissions, and BMW wouldn't purchase GM transmissions if they weren't quality peices.

As for my Explorer, its had just about everything wrong with it. 2 transmissions (again very common on the Explorer) 2 A/C compressors, 3 CD changers, 2 radios, tension pulley on the serpentine belt flew off, many many brake fiascos, new master cylendar, so many things over 7 years that I can't even remember. THis car has at least $12-13,000 in unscheduled repairs in it, and according to my Ford service rep its one of the more reliable ones. Visibly and inside the truck still looks new, good leather and okay plastics, many of the components are just designed in such a way that they have a certain life that can't be extended. Take the A/C compressors, Ford builds them wrapped in a foam material sort of like a beer caddy. Wel that insulates the compressor and helps to lessen condensation runoff but the foam stays damp and rusts out the condensor. I just had the second replacement installed last month at a cost of $611. I was THRILLED to hear $611 because I can't remember the time the thing went in the shop for less than $1,000.

As for the launches of the Explorer, Focus and Lincoln LS its not that there's a problem with it now its that they didn't work all the bugs out BEFORE they started selling them to customers, Ford never does. The Focus has the honor of having more recalls in one year than any other vehicle ever sold in the Automotive industry. The Explorer had several recalls including a leaking gas tank that led to car fires, smoldering interior wiring, a liftgate that shattered when closed, and a rear suspension problem contributing to rollovers. The LS was the same way, many many recalls that put it off on the wrong foot.

[90LS400Lexus]

My uncle had a 95 GMC Suburban diesel with over 200K and currently has a 1998 Silverado 4WD Z71 extended cab truck, with 196K and he has never had any transmission problems in either, but maybe he was lucky? I have ridden in both and most recently- the 98 Silverado (which has the same engine/transmission as the Suburban) and it actually shifts smooth. Blake- before the transmission on your mothers Suburban was repaired- did it also shift harshly then?

I think the Ford quality of recent (90s to present) is mixed, because I have heard so much good and bad. I had a 1998 Ford Taurus LX sedan last year. It had 250K- yes, 250K miles. It had been a company car (well serviced) before I bought it. The 3.0L V6 was original and had never been rebuilt and it still ran like new and was smooth. However, the transmission was getting weak and jerky. It was still going but it was soon going to need transmission work. Quirks were mainly electrical. Sometimes the turn signals would not work and when I would have the heat on (when I had it in the winter) it would often blow out cold air. It was not the thermostat either. Also too, sometimes when I would put the wipers on "slow" mode, they would still want to be on "delay". The car also had its fair share of rattles, but I think it was more of the build quality, rather than materials. The car had high quality interior materials, but it was poorly assembled in some areas.

Now the Fords of the 1970s had excellent exterior build quality as mentioned before. Example- Just shut the car door on a 73 Ford LTD, 73 Chevrolet Impala and 73 Plymouth Fury (competetors for 73). You can HEAR the quality on the Ford. Ford panels typically aligned better and closed tighter than the GMs or Mopars.

I agree about the 3800 GM engines. My old 92 Park Avenue had the 3800 V6 and it was a very good engine. It had 160K ABUSED miles and still ran good. I have heard that the Series II 3800 V6 is an even better engine.

My aunt has a 1998 Ford Explorer Eddie Bauer. I have not heard her complain of any problems. Actually, I just seen her and my uncle tonight at the local cruise-in. They were in his 1972 Ford Thunderbird. Talk about a beautiful car. He bought it from the original owner that kept it in the garage since new. The original white paint still gleams and the original red interior is like brand new throughout. I took note of the quality of the car and it puts the Chrysler Corporation cars of the same year (1972) to shame.

[blake918]

Well the engine and drivetrain study reports disagree with you ;) I don't believe Toyota has any engines or transmissions that have been nominated for the list,

Actually, your Prius made one of Ward's 10 best. Take a look: 10 Best Prius Here's how they score them:

"During a 2-month test period, six editors from Ward’s Communications evaluated the engines nominated from 32 different cars, trucks and SUVs. Scoring encompassed the crucial engine characteristics of power, torque, noise, vibration and harshness (NVH), technical relevance and basic comparative numbers. All engines nominated and tested were in vehicles with a base price under $52,500. “The engines in high-priced vehicles should be outstanding,” says Visnic. “By setting a realistic base price, we ensure the awards have value and relevance to the average consumer.”

I don't really agree with their top 10 engines, but that's just me. :whistles: I'm sure the tranny that GM sells to BMW is a different animal than what they throw in the Caviler or Trailblazer. I think I would have dumped the truck at a certian repair price point; I would never spend $13k in repairs on any car....you must really love your Explorer! I'm sure Ford must be proud about the Focus's recalls! That's sad.

The transmission in the Suburban shifted the same with the tranny that had 60k and the one that was brand new. It is slow and mushy on the way up and jumpy if you plant the pedal. Are you sure your Park Avenue didn't have the series II? My grandmother has a '91 LeSabre, and it has the series II--I figure that a newer car and one higher up in the Buick line up would have the newer engine?

[GSsoldier]

hmm i think maybe u guys got it wrong, what i thoguht u guys said is that subaru uses gm engines, subaru doesnt use GM engines, they have a boxer engine, thats simular in some porshes, GM decided to use the boxer engine in some of the new saabs... GM isnt a big deciding force in Subaru currently, but if GM contiunes to aquire more of Subaru or of its parent company which is fuji Heavy Industrys (i think) then GM might be chanign some things in subaru...

some subaru facts follow...

the wrx has a 2.0 lit engine turboed,217 hp, 230 lbs of torque (if im not mistaken)

the wrx Sti has 2.5 lit engine turboed, 300hp, 300 lbs of torque, sti hits 0 to 60 in 4.5ish it might be less

all subaru models have 4 wheel drive

oh btw if u are wondering i also love subaru to death too, lexus feeds my lux needs, and subaru feeds my speed needs hehe

the STI can kill audi S4 which has a v8, in quarter mile. it also beats Nissan's Z car in 0-60, its only contender thats basically deadeven with the STI is the Lancer Evo of Mitso.

my ideal cars that would make me set for life would be

-LS430

-wrx Sti

-GS430

no amout of cars would actually set me for life but hey this is the only realistic goal right now

BTW im not a 100% certain but the wrx models came with a non J-spec tranny, which means its crappy to lexus standards, the cars power can tear apart the tranny if not handled properly

[SW03ES]

blake- Really? Thats pretty cool! As for the Explorer its not really my issue anymore as I handed it back to my parents when we bought the Prius. They've kept it for...something I don't know what LOL.

I believe the transmission BMW uses in the 5 series is the same transmission being used in the new STS...

[90LS400Lexus]

Are you sure your Park Avenue didn't have the series II? My grandmother has a '91 LeSabre, and it has the series II--I figure that a newer car and one higher up in the Buick line up would have the newer engine?

I did not think that the Series II was introduced until 1995 or 1996. Mine was definitely a Series I. Is it possible that your grandmothers 91 had a newer engine installed? Here is a engine of the engine in my 92 Park Avenue. If I am correct, the series II has a black cover and this one has a lighter color.