JBL Posted July 23, 2004 Posted July 23, 2004 There are at least 15 complaints on Department of Transportation web site (DOT)on problems with RX 330 transmission which appears to have a lag and thus people are concerned that they may end up in an accident. I dont see a single thread on this topic in this forum. What am I missing?
wwest Posted July 23, 2004 Posted July 23, 2004 Even on my 01 RX it's pretty clear that Lexus was doing everything they could to alleviate or reduce engine lagging torque, decel, to the front, drive, wheels. With the advent of e-throttle on the newer models I wouldn't be at all surprised if Lexus is using this new firmware control capability to even further increase the safety aspects of a FWD vehicle. Rapid acceleration while turning tightly is one area seemingly addressed. From what I read on various forums the new RX simply will not downshift, nor accelerate quickly with sudden WOT and high steering angle. Probably considered a positive aspect of the VSC system. I think most would agree that this circumstance has a very high potential for loss of control in a FWD vehicle so the VSC firmware routine to address it is likely warranted. Did you know that Stabilitrak system in the FWD Caddy with the high HP/torque Northstar V8 engine will not allow the engine to deliver full power to the front drive wheels for a WOT standing start? The engineers knew that full torque would predominantly result in wheelspin in this circumstance and wheelspin on a FWD vehicle often results in loss of control so..... But I rather doubt if the RX engine is torquey enough to do that, at least not on a reasonably high traction surface.
wwest Posted July 23, 2004 Posted July 23, 2004 Hmmmm.... On second thought. The effects of torque steer can get to be pretty serious on the RX so maybe it is a good idea for Lexus to reduce the available, instantaneous, torque to the front wheels with WOT from a standing start. "Only the shadow knows." Or maybe only the firmware performance vs VSC specification writers.
JBL Posted July 23, 2004 Author Posted July 23, 2004 I think Lexus is aware of the problem: Here are couple of excerpts from the DOT web site: www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/complain/results.cfm MANY OWNERS OF 2004 RX330 HAVE REPORTED PROBLEMS WITH THE 5-SPEED AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION. THERE IS A SUBSTANTIAL "LAG" IN SHIFTING AT LOW SPEEDS AROUND 20 MPH WITH OCCASIONAL REPORTS OF THE CAR REVVING TO "REDLINE" WITHOUT THE TRANSMISSION ENGAGING. THIS RESULTS IN THE VEHIBLE BECOMING IMMOBILE IN INTERSECTIONS OR WHEN EXITING TOOLBOOTHS. THERE IS A SIMILAR PROBLEM AT AROUND 40 MPH. IT HAS HAPPENED TO OUR VEHICLE AT LEAST 6 TIMES, TWO OF WHICH NEARLY RESULTED IN AN ACCIDENT FROM BEING "REAR-ENDED." LEXUS HAS RELEASED A SOFTWARE UPGRADE BUT THIS REPORTEDLY HAS NOT CORRECTED THE PROBLEM. AFTER DENYING THAT THERE WAA A TSB FOR THE PROBLEM, THE DEALER SAID THAT IT COULD NOT "RECOMMEND" THE UPGRADE. ********************************************************** MY RX330 HAS JUST COME OUT OF THE DEALER SERVICE FOR THE SECOND TIME DUE TO A COMPLETE FAILURE TO DOWNSHIFT WHEN NECESSARY. ESPECIALLY AS I SLOW DOWN TO ABOUT 20 MPH, AND THE TRY TO RE-ACCELERATE, THE RPM'S GO TO 5500 BUT THE VEHICLE DOES NOT MOVE AND THE CLUTCH NEVER ENGAGES. YOU HAVE TO LET OFF THE GAS PEDAL AND LET THE RPM'S COME BACK DOWN AND TRY IT AGAIN. THIS HAS ALMOST GOT ME HIT BY ANOTHER VEHICLE AT LEAST 3 TIMES. ON THE FIRST SERVICE CALL THEY TRIED TO DO A TRANSMISSION "RESET" I HAVE DRIVEN THE VEHICLE 2500 MILES SINCE THEN AND IT MIGHT EVEN BE WORSE. THIS TIME IT WENT TO THE SHOP AND TWO TECHNICIANS, ONE MANAGER, AND ONE CUSTOMER SERVICE REP ALL TOLD ME THAT THEY HAVE BEEN ABLE TO SIMULATE THE PROBLEM ON TEST DRIVES BUT THAT IT IS "NORMAL FOR THIS VEHICLE", HOWEVER, THEY ARE STILL GOING TO REPORT IT TO THE MANUFACTURER. MY RESPONSE IS THAT THIS MAY BE "NORMAL" FOR THIS VEHICLE, BUT IT IS NOT NORMAL FOR "A" VEHICLE. THEY ALL AGREED BUT SAID THAT LEXUS DOES NOT HAVE A FIX. THIS IS CURRENTLY ELEVATED TO THE LEXUS COMPANY CUSTOMER SERVICE AND THEY SAID THEY WOULD GET BACK TO ME. UNTIL THEN I AM STUCK IN A DANGEROUS VEHICLE.
wwest Posted July 24, 2004 Posted July 24, 2004 This, in a way, confirms some of my suspicions. Some of the driving "feel" of my 01 AWD RX300 has led me to suspect that the transmission is sometimes being shifted into neutral. I have most often noticed it just after lifting the throttle and at the beginning of "coastdown". It is also noticeable just before coming to a full, complete, stop. In both instances it feels as if the vehicle has been bumped ever so slightly by a following vehicle. I have seen posts wherein it was referred to as the "slingshot" effect. The only thing I can find in the shop manuals that seems to relate to this is the fact that when you step on the brakes the torque converter lockup is instantly released. That would reduce the "drag" from the wheels beginning to "drive" the engine. For what reason? I know that Cadilac had a lot of problems taming their FWD STS(??) with the high torque/hp Northstar engine. I have heard that the Stabilitrak system was initailly introduced to prevent FWD wheelspin with "jackrabbit", WOT, standing starts which would often result in loss of control of the vehicle. I am also aware that another aspect of the FWD caddy was the use of an over-running cluctch in the tranny so that the engine braking torque to the front wheels would not result in skiding and loss of control. Is this maybe what Lexus is trying to accomplish? Make the FWD RX series more beneign handling? Reduce the adverse effects of FWD? Least we forget, shifting the tranny into neutral during coastdown and/or during light braking would also result in better fuel economy.
wwest Posted July 24, 2004 Posted July 24, 2004 ALL RXes are really FWD when it comes to the need for real or true AWD performance. The RX300s had differing front and rear final drive ratios, ~3.28/2.92. The RX330 is 3.48 and 2.92. The object is to deliver torque predominantly to the front wheels under dynamic conditions. With static conditions, equal traction all around and no turns nor accelerating torque nor engine lagging torque, the RX will deliver equal torque front/rear and side to side. The differing final drive ratios act the same as different length halfshafts at the front during dynamic conditions, with accelerating torque applied, the shorter shaft will always lead the longer one delivering torque to the roadbed and therefore the vehicle will tend stear opposite to the side with the shorter shaft. Admittedly the use of brake torque apportioning on the RX330 likely makes the RX330 a lot more viable as an AWD vehicle. Still, I would NEVER drive it with front snowchains only as Lexus advises in the owners manual. Well, maybe in an absolute emergency but thyen very, VERY, slowly and NEVER downhill.
SeaDuck79 Posted July 24, 2004 Posted July 24, 2004 To answer the original question, there have been at least two threads I've seen regarding the transmission in the month or so I've been on this board - they've just aged off. Thanks to those more knowledgeable members for enlightening us on some of the technical details. It's a shame that a car that is practically perfect could have this one potentially major flaw. Like dating a supermodel who it turns out used to be a guy or something. Not that I would know about that personally... :P
jgoodman Posted July 25, 2004 Posted July 25, 2004 To answer the original question, there have been at least two threads I've seen regarding the transmission in the month or so I've been on this board - they've just aged off.Thanks to those more knowledgeable members for enlightening us on some of the technical details. It's a shame that a car that is practically perfect could have this one potentially major flaw. Like dating a supermodel who it turns out used to be a guy or something. Not that I would know about that personally... :P hah hah :D
Riva Posted July 25, 2004 Posted July 25, 2004 So is this all 330's or jsut the FWD models? So far, no problem with my fwd 2004 RX 330 transmission (manufactured 06/04). From what I've read, the transmission anomaly has been reported in a small percentage of RX 330's. There are also similar reports about the ES 300 and 330 transmission. I also read that the both new RX330 and ES 330's coming off the factory line have a new upgraded transmission software ("fix") in them and should be okay. I do know that my one month old RX 330 has exhibited no unusual performance at all. I'm just under 1000 miles. I had heard about the trannmission before my purchase, so when test driving I was sure to watch out for this; and I was not able to reproduce any of the unusual symptoms, I've read about, in any of the three RX's I test drove. My sister also just purchased a 2004 ES 330, last week, and so far her tranny has been performing great. Anyway, here's a question: For those that have experienced problems with their transmission performance, is this something that occurred right away... or did it develop this problem after putting a number of miles on the vehicle? Also, what is the manufacturer date on your vehicle?
JBL Posted July 25, 2004 Author Posted July 25, 2004 Anyway, here's a question: For those that have experienced problems with their transmission performance, is this something that occurred right away... or did it develop this problem after putting a number of miles on the vehicle? Going through the 17 odd complaints on the DOT web site, and few on Eopinions.com, there are at least few reporting the problem occuring after 5000-10000 miles. Most of them also report a clunking noise during downshifts. It is strange that Lexus is quiet on this given their stellar track record for customer response!
SeaDuck79 Posted July 26, 2004 Posted July 26, 2004 Since they have a great reputation for top service as well as top quality, and seeing the major nature of this issue, my guess is that they aren't unwilling to respond with a solution, but are at this time unable to respond with a solution. Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by simple incompetence.
blackphantom Posted July 27, 2004 Posted July 27, 2004 Mine is one of the complaints on the NHSTA website. Have a 2004 AWD. With less than 4000 miles, transmission would hang between 2-3 upshift, then abruptly engage with a jolt. Having had a 2000 GS 400, I couldn't belive how poorly the RX330 transmission performed. Also expericed abrupt downshifting under full throttle followed by immediate upshift to highest gear. Dealer reprogrammed the engine management chip with latest upgrade. Car now has around 9000 miles. Still experiencing the same problem, but now, car seems to shift into neutral when slowing to make a turn or upon throttle application after slowing. Nothing happens, then abrupt engagement. Recently, I was passing another car on a two lane highway. The transmission downshifted to third gear, then immediately to fifth, with abrupt drop in power and acceleration. The problem is sporadic and unpredictable. My wife's Honda Accord's transmission if far superior to the RX330. I have a meeting with the regional factory rep on Friday to discuss.
JBL Posted July 28, 2004 Author Posted July 28, 2004 Well, all this goes to show that this is not a dependable vehicle. I dont care what JD powers or consumer reports say. I dont want to be that odd statistic to end up in an accident. It reminds me of that Audi 5000 fiasco that Audi never admitted but ultimately ended up with discontinuing the model. In our state it is no wonder that Acura MDX is outselling the 330 and rightfully so.
Riva Posted July 28, 2004 Posted July 28, 2004 I dont care what JD powers or consumer reports say.... In our state it is no wonder that Acura MDX is outselling the 330 and rightfully so. Well I don't put much weight in JD Power studies either, but let's not assume that the Acura MDX is more reliable. The NHTSA jut recently recalled over 1 million Acura MDX's and Honda Odyssey's for transmission problems. NHTSA ID# 04V176000. The fact is, anything that's manmade is not going to be perfect. And to get back to the subject of the RX 330 transmission: I am curious to know the actual manufacture date (not in service date) of the vehicles that have this problem, and if there's any truth to this rumor about Lexus automatically "upgrading the transmission software" in the newer ones coming off the line.
JBL Posted July 28, 2004 Author Posted July 28, 2004 The Honda/Acura transmission recall fix is to direct some transmission oil to the second gear. Lexus 430 transmission recall is, I believe, is to replace the transmission. These problems have a fix. If Lexus does not acknowledge RX330 problem, there is not a whole lot you can do but to look elsewhere or take your chances with 330.
Riva Posted July 28, 2004 Posted July 28, 2004 The Honda/Acura transmission recall fix is to direct some transmission oil to the second gear.... These problems have a fix. A tsb or recall offers hope, but it certainly does not guarantee the component or vehicle will be reliable from that point on. Check out automotive message boards (i.e. Edmunds), you'll see that Honda owners have been reporting problems with the Odyssey transmission going back to the very first year the new model was released. In fact, the very mdx/Odyssey transmission the govt. is now recalling was suppose to be the new and improved replacement for the poor transmission used in the 98, 99, 2000 models, where no recall was issued at all. In addition, the nhtsa recall, which was just released, only requires that Acura/Honda fix 2002 Odyssey/MDX's that have less than 15k miles on it. How many 2 + year old vehicles do you know that only have 15k miles on them? Note: Acura is not offering any kind of extended warranty with these problem transmissions. As for the RX 330 transmission, there has not been a single accident or complete mechanical failure reported to the NHTSA, which is most likely the reason no govt. recall has been issued. As unpleasant as this problem has been for some RX owners, I think most would take their unusual tranny performance any day over the more serious transmission problems millions of Acura/Honda owners have experienced to date. Lexus has addressed the RX transmission complaints with an upgraded software (per TSB), and judging by the fewer complaints posted here and on other boards, this seems to have resolved the issue for many. Hopefully, they will continue to make efforts to fix this matter for those that are still experiencing problems. In the meantime, let's not overlook the fact that they didn't have to wait for a goverment imposed (nhtsa) recall in order to get the ball rolling here.
JBL Posted July 28, 2004 Author Posted July 28, 2004 I got Honda odyssey in 1999 after 8 months of wait. With 50K miles on it , I have had no problems whatsoever so far. Problems with 330 seems to stem from after five speed trasnsmission was introduced for 2004 models. You dont need to have an accident happen before a vehicle gets recalled.With their reputation at stake, the likes of Lexus, Acura, Infinity have to fix the problems before they become a issue or somebody dies! If I want unreliability, I might as well buy an Kia for thousands less. It will still get me to my destination.
Riva Posted July 29, 2004 Posted July 29, 2004 I got Honda odyssey in 1999 after 8 months of wait. With 50K miles on it , I have had no problems whatsoever so far.... JBL - With all due respect, I think your needs may be better served in a Honda Odyssey/MDX vs RX 330 forum. Good luck. :-)
Brian Posted July 30, 2004 Posted July 30, 2004 Having driven both MDX and RX 330, I can offer my views. If you are passive driver who drives a car gently and is not in a rush than RX 330 is for you. The transmission does have a lag but you wont see it if you drive defensively. The vehicle in fact forces you into defensive driving habits. Additionally, the vehicle is refined with less road noise and the ride is much smoother on rough terrain than the MDX. The interior of the Lexus also feels much superior, and there is less lean at curves than the MDX. On the other hand if you are an aggressive driver who drives vehicle hard, is used to making split second decisions when merging into traffic or during changing lanes in heavy traffic, MDX will serve you better and RX330 will probably get you in an accident. MDX has absolutely no transmission lag and very responsive. The interior is also much larger than the RX330. Engine noise, acceleration and general handling is probably comparable in the two vehicles. Hope this helps.
ahjok Posted August 9, 2004 Posted August 9, 2004 "On the other hand if you are an aggressive driver who drives vehicle hard...RX330 will probably get you in an accident" We have an RX330 with 5,000 miles on the clock and my experience does not support this comment at all. I agree the tranny is biased toward smooth upshifts, and that it is a tad slow to downshift when you mash the pedal, but in my view this does not have to present a safety problem. 5th gear in the RX330 is an overdrive gear not meant for city driving. if you want more response in the cut-and slash of urban traffic, leave the tranny in 4th. This also enables you to quick-pop the shifter down to 3rd for a burst of speed. BTW the Lexus is faster from 0-60 than the Acura. Also as a comment: if you are an aggressive, lane-changin' kind of driver, what are you doing in a luxury SUV? Sounds like you would be happier in a Porsche! :D
kevinclee Posted August 10, 2004 Posted August 10, 2004 Yes, I also have transmission problems with RX330 and eletronic braking. I also posted the following message on the other forum. My car has around 6,500 miles on it and it was purchased last Nov. A couple things I still cannot drive the car smoothly. Here are the cases. First, when I slow down the speed without completely stop, I switch and step on the gas paddle. Unless I have to be VERY gentle with the paddle, the transmission seems picking up a lower gear with normal stepping on. I can feel the abrupt engagement. The transmission performed really poor. I didn't have ECM update because the dealer told me it has been done in factory. Is that matter? I also heard there is a learning computer to learn your driving behavior. But how long does it really learn? Once it learns, what happen with other drivers or you change your driving behavior? Regarding to braking, I drive downhill everyday. I have noticed that the transmission has downed gears and electronic brake kicks in after a few seconds. The car suddenly decreases the speed when the electronic brake is on. I usually drive smoothly both acceleration and braking with other cars like my previous ES300. I intend not to press the gas and brake paddle to hard. Is something wrong with my driving behavior? Or this is a difficult/complicated vehicle to drive?
Doc H Posted August 10, 2004 Posted August 10, 2004 Just had TSB service on my RX330 AWD after 15K; service ticket says 3 Jobs: "Flashed ECU;" a number of transmission parts appear to have been replaced, and several clamps/clips were apparently added. Kept overnight; runs like a dream now... Doc H B)
kevinclee Posted August 10, 2004 Posted August 10, 2004 Hi Doc H, Can you post what TSIB # related to the service you had? Thanks.
LexusRXLover Posted August 11, 2004 Posted August 11, 2004 "On the other hand if you are an aggressive driver who drives vehicle hard...RX330 will probably get you in an accident"We have an RX330 with 5,000 miles on the clock and my experience does not support this comment at all. I agree the tranny is biased toward smooth upshifts, and that it is a tad slow to downshift when you mash the pedal, but in my view this does not have to present a safety problem. 5th gear in the RX330 is an overdrive gear not meant for city driving. if you want more response in the cut-and slash of urban traffic, leave the tranny in 4th. This also enables you to quick-pop the shifter down to 3rd for a burst of speed. BTW the Lexus is faster from 0-60 than the Acura. Also as a comment: if you are an aggressive, lane-changin' kind of driver, what are you doing in a luxury SUV? Sounds like you would be happier in a Porsche! :D :( We buy luxury lexus because it's not just luxury. Because It's reliable on every condition. In case the driver need to start/go fast or pass trucks on highway quickly. We know luxury cars have enough power and stable on most cases. At least that's why i buy lexus. I Never/Can't believe the RX330 is made for/to make driver drive safely. The RX330 owners We don't have to compare RX330 with other car, I just like my RX330 and I hope they fix problem soon.. P.S. Just after I bought my RX330, I could start really fast, however I found that everytime I do on the street RX330 was shaking, even i was going straight I felt i was going zig zig... little bit... I belive the RX330 is fast but unstable. But, now they update ECM, my RX330 has delay on fast start and when I decrease the speed the transmisson is in N. @@;
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