Can A Dealer Refuse?

[riz1]

I recently purchased a CPO ES300 2002 with 29,800 Miles (my first Lexus!) from a dealer in Albany NY who was recommended by family. The purchasing experience was quite positive and the dealer turned out to be straightforward and accommodating.

However, on the way back to PA (where I live) I noticed a few minor issues: A/C makes a high pitched chirping noise after a few minutes of driving, panel behind driver's seat is loose from one end, column between driver-side doors is coming off making it impossible to adjust the seatbelt height and the car was pulling slightly (but noticably) to the left.

I called the purchasing dealer and he reassured me that there were all covered under the CPO warranty and the only issue might be the veering which would come under maintenance if it was alignment. I explained that a CPO vehicle should not be sold with an alignment problem. He agreed and said he would pay for it if my local dealer refused.

I called my local dealership today to schedule a date for these issues to be looked at. First of all the service agent I spoke with stated that I would not get a loaner vehicle as those were only offered to individuals who buy vehicles from that dealer (even if the work would be > 8hours). Moreover, after talking to his service manager he said that none of the items I had mentioned would be fixed under warranty and I would have to go back to the dealer in Albany.

I called up Lexus customer service and they are going to look into the situation as well. I was hoping someone in this forum could provide some advise as to my rights. Can my local dealer refuse to fix these problems under the terms of the CPO warranty? Also, can they refuse to give me a Loaner vehicle even though the CPO policy states that one should be provided for any work that could be more than 8 hours.

Purchasing a Lexus was a huge decision for me and the biggest investment I have ever made. I was hoping the after-sale part of this would be as smooth as the purchase itself. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

[90LS400Lexus]

Hello and welcome to Lexus Owners Club!

As far as the loaner car goes, I have heard many people say on the LS400 forums that many Lexus dealerships will give you a loaner car (if you request it), no matter how old your car is, or where it was bought. I have not had any long repairs conducted on my LS400, so I am not sure about this at my local dealer.

First of all- at 29K miles, you should not be having any of these problems on this automobile.

Even if it were not a CPO car, all of these things should be covered under the normal warranty and it should not matter where you bought the car. I think they are giving you the run around.

Even when my uncles 2002 Nissan Frontier 4dr 4WD Supercharged truck, with 22K miles had a vibration problem, he had it to three different local Nissan dealers. They still could not find the problem, even after they tested it for over 2500 miles. There was also a problem with the brakes, which two weeks ago caused him to have an accident in the truck (sharply went around a curve, no brakes and side swiped trees and fence). He is currently still waiting for Nissan to settle.

Hopefully you will hear from Lexus and all of this will be repaired. I am sure you will love your Lexus, as they are really great cars. Even though mine is 14 years old, with over 230K miles, it still runs like new and still is rattle free.

Good luck!

[amf1932]

A CPO vehicle from Lexus should cover exactly the same things as if you purchased said vehicle new! You are definitely getting the run around from whomever you spoke to, and as you said the Lexus Corporation will look into this situation and surely will correct everything under their warranty.......including a loaner car. When I hear about these things they certainly *BLEEP* me off.

[steviej]

the orginal warranty should still be in effect. 4 years from original date if inception or 50,000 miles. I wasn't aware that CPO overides orginal.

All lexus dealers are supposed to honor orginal and CPO warranties on any lexus. Their service centers are all linked by a computer network so you should be able to go anywhere and the service writer should be able to pull up the records on that particular car.

You did the right thing by calling Lexus customer service, let them make the decision. If all else fails, make the trip back to the purchasing dealer and have them fix it all. They already said they would. Make a little vacation out of it. Talk to Lexus Customer service and see if they won't reimburse you for mileage or something to get the car there.....you never know until you ask.

Mr. 90LS400Lexus: "First of all- at 29K miles, you should not be having any of these problems on this automobile."

I agree with you 100%. The key word being should. But, you really don't know who had the car for the orginal 29K miles and how they treated it. Could have been a previous loaner, could have been a traveling sales rep that didn't give a crap cause it wasn't their car.

[SW03ES]

Well a dealership can certainly refuse to do any sort of service they are independent companies that are simply licensed to carry the Lexus name. Sort of like a franchise. BUT I believe they have done one thing that Lexus will admonish them for.

1. Loaner car. GENERALLY Lexus dealers will give you a loaner car for any service. I ALWAYS get a loaner car even for an oil change otherwise its just not worth it to take my car to Lexus to have it done. For an oil change I drop my car off at 5 the prior day, pick up the loaner, and pick the car back up at 5 the next day. I may pay $130 for an oil change but its very convenient and I get a loaner to offset the cost of the service. Now, Lexus dealers do not HAVE to do this and I'm sure somewhere there must be one that doesn't. The Lexus original warranty (which should include everything there but the alignment) states that for ANY warranty work you must recieve a loaner, for the CPO warranty its work over 8 hours. He's getting around giving you a loaner because he's saying its all elective at cost to you work. Shady.

Personally I don't get that dealership, they have the opportunity there to earn your service business for life and they squandered it. If those people worked in a dealership I owned they'd be in the unemployment line.

I can see the dealer's point about the warranty work. Technically I doubt its warranty work, its work the selling dealer should have performed before he put the car up for sale as a CPO Lexus, thats why the local dealer is directing you back there. Technically the DEALER needs to pay for those repairs not Lexus. Still though, if it were my dealership they would find a way to keep you from having to drive all the way back to Albany...

[SKperformance]

The first and most important question to me is

what does it say in your contract?

[bdonkersgoed]

Wow . . . a loaner car for an oil change?! Now that's customer service :P

I think they are just trying to keep you happy so that you are a customer for life. What kind of loaner car do you get?

I took my car to an independant and got a loaner car (for about 7 hours of work). The place looks crappy, but they do really good work. I got a beautiful 1989 Ford Tempo in an elegant colour they called "rustic maroon" (emphasis on the RUST) with a red interior :P Aside from the fact that the clear coat was almost completely peeled off, the speedometer and odometer didn't work, the gas tank lid had to be opened from within the trunk, there was an anonomous car part in the trunk, the seatbelt didn't work right, someone had written phone numbers on on the passenger seat in pen, and you sometimes had to start it in neutral so that you can rev it so that it doesn't stall, it was an OK car . . . and the personalised license plate saying "Tires" was a nice touch :P

Needless to say, it was embarassing to drive. I didn't put gas in it in my hometown for fear of someone I know seeing me in this thing.

But, it sure made me appreicate my Lexus when I got it back! B)

Regards,

Bryan

[branshew]

Your CPO warranty should cover everything you listed save the potential alignment (however you may be able to argue that the car's alignment should have been tested before it was sold).

That aside, I thought ALL Lexus dealers had to honor warranty work on any Lexus purchased anywhere (regardless of new or CPO). Otherwise what is the point? If dealers can pick and choose which warranty repairs to honor and from what dealer, then the concept of CPO program and new warranty coverage in general is totally shot.

I agree w/ SW03ES in that the dealership should have been kissing your @$$ to get your service. If they prove themselves w/ quality service, then why wouldn't you buy your next car from them?

I've also heard various things about the loaner, but you should be given one regardless of where you bought your car, especially considering that it is under warranty. My local dealership would always offer me a loaner, even though I didn't buy from them, nor was I under coverage. This changed later so that warranty coverage issues were given first choice on loaners. All others were on a first come first serve basis, but I was almost always able to get a loaner. Besides that, the loaner program is the best way to move customers into the next generation models. It's basically free advertising and an all day test drive.

[riz1]

Thank you all for the insight! It makes it so much easier to deal with these situations knowing that other people have gone through this before. I was really surprised by the original response from the service department. After reading through so many positive experiences on this forum I was expecting an easy process.

I cannot express how much I enjoy driving this car. I had always dreamt of owning a lexus since the late 80s and did not think it would be possible for some time to come. It certainly has an addictive quality to it.

Here's the latest:

I just got a call from the Service Manager. Talk about a 180. He made me go over the list of issues again and asked me to bring the car in after next week. I reminded him about the original assessment that this would not be covered and he just said "well, bring it in and we'll see what we can do. I don't know about the chirping in the A/C but the others seem like minor issues." I wonder if Lexus Corporate called him about this.

I probably should be cautiously optimistic and not get too excited. This brings me to my follow-up question:

Is there anything I should do/not do when I take the car in? e.g. should I get anything in writing, not give them credit card info etc.

I have never been through this process before and have no idea how repairs under warranty work.

Thanks again for all the input. I'll post a follow-up after my visit to the dealership.

[SW03ES]

Wow . . . a loaner car for an oil change?! Now that's customer service :P

I think they are just trying to keep you happy so that you are a customer for life. What kind of loaner car do you get?

Thats how all the Lexus dealers around here are, you have to specify you want a loaner before you schedule and you usually have to schedule a week in advance, but you can have a loaner for any service. I can specify an ES, RX, or IS if availiable. I usually take RX330s just to drive something different.

Your CPO warranty should cover everything you listed save the potential alignment (however you may be able to argue that the car's alignment should have been tested before it was sold).

Beating on it by the previous owner however is not going to be covered, thats something the selling dealer should have addressed.

I just got a call from the Service Manager. Talk about a 180. He made me go over the list of issues again and asked me to bring the car in after next week. I reminded him about the original assessment that this would not be covered and he just said "well, bring it in and we'll see what we can do. I don't know about the chirping in the A/C but the others seem like minor issues." I wonder if Lexus Corporate called him about this.

Corporate called the owner/general manager of the dealership and he/she kicked the service manager's !Removed! ;)

I probably should be cautiously optimistic and not get too excited. This brings me to my follow-up question:

Is there anything I should do/not do when I take the car in? e.g. should I get anything in writing, not give them credit card info etc.

They wont ask for credit card info, you'll just describe/show them the problems and you'll be on your way. If they don't give you an estimate than they must by law call you and get verbal confirmation before performing any repairs at cost to you. Are you getting a loaner?

[riz1]

lol! It sure seems like someone got a talking to. I didn't want to tempt fate by bringing up the loaner issue but my appointment is in the afternoon and I'll demand one if they want to keep the car for more than an hour or so. According to the service manager they might be able to resolve these while I wait.

I asked Corporate about the loaner and was told that for the most part it is at the discretion of the dealer. However, repairs under warranty require a loaner if they will take longer than 8 hours. My fear is that this dealer will make me wait while the easy problems are fixed and then ask me to come back for the A/C and pulling, thereby getting out of the 8 hour clause. I suppose I shouldn't pre-judge but the first impression has really left me wary.

As far as the veering is concerned he suspected it might be as simple as a single tire being oriented incorrectly and rotating it might fix the problem: the dealer in Albany provided 4 new Potenzas and brakes (per the terms of the CPO program).

[SW03ES]

My guess is the alignment is simply out. There's a TSB on the ES about how to properly fix a pull to the right or left so they'll know exactly how to do it.

If they ask you to come back say "Yes, when can you schedule me with a loaner?" Keep in mind that these people are trained to deal with customers that are able to shell out $70,000 cash on vehicles. Ask yourself "Would someone who had just written a check for a $70,000 LS430 walk away without a loaner? Would they sit at the dealer for 5 hours?" The answer is definately no. Don't be rude or mean, just be stern and confident. You must maintain control with these people. You are a Lexus owner and you are very valuable to them.

Something most people don't know is that a dealership's service department makes a great deal more money than their sales department. The real money is made off of a customer in service over the vehicle's lifetime and in referrals. I own a marketing company and almost all we do is train car dealerships how to deal with customers and turn sales business into service business. On top of that training we sell them inventory systems, customer rewards systems etc to help them do that and track their sales. THAT is how important service business is to a dealership.

They get paid for the service the same whether they charge you or Lexus for it. Don't think they're providing you with "free" service, they are being paid for it. Part of what they are being paid for is furnishing you a loaner for your warranty work.

[Lex in Tex]

what is the name of this lexus dealership SO EVERYONE CAN AVOID IT?!

[sgriffith]

Just to add my experience to this....I did not buy my RX from a Lexus dealer & I also have an extended warranty through another company. When I take my RX into a dealer for work (even if it only takes an hour) I am given a loaner car....I never even have to say a thing about it...they just take me to the loaner car dept. and get me all set up...always a fine ride. I just had an ES 330 (had yet to drive one) and I wanted to take it home with me!! If ANYONE in Texas wants a great dealership, I highly recommend Park Place Lexus in Grapevine. They are so great that I drive almost 3 hours to take my car to them for service. Lexus is all about relationships, and Park Place Lexus in Grapevine does it well. I will, if at all possible, purchase my next through them.....and that is only b/c of their service dept. So, like everyone else has said, the way you are treated by the dealer is a big deal to Lexus....and be sure to let them know (just like you did) when something happens that will keep you from buying a vehicle from THAT DEALER in the future.

Additionally, my service agent always goes over the customer satisfaction survey with me right before I pick my car up to make sure I don't have any negative things to say, and they usually call me the next day just to make sure everything is ok with the car. So, I would expect a lot better customer service if I were you....other dealerships are doing it.

[riz1]

I'm about to head out for my appointment with dealership. I will post as soon as I get back and let you know how things turn out. Its nice to see examples of dealers going out of their way to maintain relationships. Everyone wins in that situation. While I am hopeful my initial negative experience was just an exception today's meeting will be the deciding factor.

I don't want to give this dealership a bad reputation if it is not warranted. I'll mention the name when I get back so they at least have a chance to save face :P

I can't thank you guys enough for the input and advice. The lessons I have learned:

1. Be confident (as any Lexus owner should be).

2. Be respectful but persistent.

3. If all else fails call Corporate and have them take care of things.

4. Lexus Owners Club ROCKS!

I almost forgot: Corp. called me back to follow-up with my complaint. I mentioned that the service manager had called me in person to set up an appointment and was told that someone from the Customer Satisfaction department had "talked" to him.

[riz1]

Visit to Dealership: Lexus of Lehigh Valley

I had mixed results today. They did not have my appointment in the system but took me in anyway. The attitude was courteously professional but not endearing. The service agent I talked to was quite nice. She understood my needs and tried to help out as much as possible.

As far as the pulling problem is concerned they switched the front two tires and asked me to let them know if the problem presists. It seemed to work but I will give it a few days to see if it comes back.

The issue of a loaner did not even come up. I told them I had one hour to spare and had to get back. They were unable to get the car ready within that time so I had to wait a little longer. To be fair they were quite swamped with work.

I can appreciate the fact that these issues should have been resolved by the selling dealer. However the reality is that the car is here now and I should not be the one stuck in the middle...

Overall I give them a B for effort.