Tire Dillema Continues...

chuckb · August 20, 2004

I had them prorated once and the second pair ragged out just as quick. They would do nothing for me on 2nd pair.

The place is a joke(Pitt Stop auto in Venice) & I don't go there anymore

Lexusfreak · August 21, 2004

Your the first person that I've heard that's had any problems with the TPT's. Such low milage too.....strange :blink:

:cheers:

isnipdog1975 · October 14, 2004

May I end this debate once and for all. I am a tire Fanatic. I worked at an NTB for 2 years, and as such have had the opportunity to test drive many tires, on many different cars. Blindfolded, I can usually tell you what brand I am driving on, and if I am told the brand, I can usually tell the model, all without looking at the sidewall. That is how serious I am about my tires.

Unequivically in my humble opinion, the Michilin MXV4 Plus tires are the best. Many tires are a close second, (Yokohama's Avid series come to mind). Many tires beat the Michelins in one single category (Goodyear Integrity for ride softness).

All I can say is that, people have brought cars in that rode horribly. Bumpy, hard to steer, vibration, etc. I would let them know that I thought the Michilins would fix their problems. I had NTB's 30 day money back ride gurantee behind me, for extra convincing power. I was not on commisiion. We put these tires on, and all of a sudden the car felt like new. Not a single person EVER brought them back, out of over 50.

Also, has anyone noticed that Hyundai has started putting Michilin Energy MXV4's as standard equipment on all it's models even low end? There is one simple reason for this. Great tires can make even a mediocre car like a Hyundai ride like a Million bucks. All the newest Lexi (rx330, es330 etc.) usually come with the Energy's also.

Your tires are the ONLY things touching the road ! Spending an extra $80 buck or so extra to ensure a great ride is not out of reach of most budgets. Michilin knows that, and as such will probably keep the price in the Stratosphere.

The chief reason they feel so great is the low rolling resistance, coupled with the smooth ride. These tires embody these qualities perfectly.

If money was not an absaloute problem, go with the Michilin's.

SW03ES · October 14, 2004

The reason Hyundai has started using the MXV4's on their cars is why all carmakers use them, they are cheap on the assembly line. What you fail to realize is that the MXV4's that come on cars OEM are built on different lines than the ones that are sold in retail stores and to lesser tolerances and are MUCH MUCH MUCH cheaper to the manufacturer than they are to the consumer. Those tires probably cost them 10% of what they cost us.

Only problem with your experience at NTB is the relatively short list of suppliers they sell, no Toyos, no Falkens etc. The people that sold me my Toyos (also not on comission) said they used to feel the same way about the Michelins until they started selling the Toyo TPT's. Another problem with your story about transforming tires with all kinds of ride problems into like new with the Michelin tires. Sure, that makes sense you're replacing old worn out improperly maintained tires with brand new ones!

mburnickas · October 14, 2004

I will just say this. I do not care if someone has tested 1 tire or 1,000’s of tires. Just because some says they are the best, does not mean they are. You can tell me Lexus is the best out there period, but that means nothing. Other cars will sell since it is not a “cut and dry” answer. Same with tires. Some people love Dunlap’s on motorcycles and some people have had them and suck.

Plus I do not put much faith in companies since it always came back to $$$$$$ when sales are involved. Everything has plus and minus but most businesses never tell you the negative or down side.

I got my tires from in-laws garage and the markup on tires is a joke! I do not mind places making a profit but give me a break. I paid $75 per tire (with free mount, bal etc) when they are over $129 EACH (plus $12 for mount, bal, old tire removal, tax).

I also asked my father-in-law about what his distributor paid for my Toyo Proxes TPT 215/60-15 and their price is around $31 to $38. Not a bad mark up…. 3.6X from full retail!!!! Can you say JOKE

SW03ES · October 15, 2004

Oh this is definately very true. Everyone has an angle, whether they're paid or not. We all have an angle when it comes to Lexus, if only to justify our pride and our purchase we are hardly impartial.

As for the markup, yes there is a HUGE markup on tires. I was shopping around for tires and asked the Lexus dealer what they offered, they offered everything OEM and added "we don't make much money on tires, we do it for our customers for convenience" I almost laughed in the guy's face...

jragosta · September 26, 2005

Well now I have a nail and slow leak in one of the sorry Bridgestone Potenza RE92's on my ES so I'm back shopping for tires.
[snip]

Any advice is appreciated...

←

Although this thread is over a year old, I'm now in the same boat. My stock Turanza's have worn enough that I feel I can replace them without feeling too guilty. I'm looking for 3 things: ride comfort, quiet, and ride comfort. Tread life isn't an issue. Traction is potentially an issue, but we don't get much snow here. I don't need top traction, but would like better than average. I suspect almost anything will be better than the Turannzas.

After checking 3 dealers, I got the following recommendations:

Michelin MXV4

Toyo TPT

Bridgestone Turanza LSV

There has been a lot posted here about the MX4 and TPT, but not much about the LSV. Anyone know about this tire? Just the fact that it's a Turanza is almost enough to steer me away, but they claim that it's an entirely different technology than the stock Turanzas.

Unless I hear something to change my mind, I'll probably go with the Toyos.

Lexusfreak · September 26, 2005

Well now I have a nail and slow leak in one of the sorry Bridgestone Potenza RE92's on my ES so I'm back shopping for tires.
[snip]

Any advice is appreciated...

←

Although this thread is over a year old, I'm now in the same boat. My stock Turanza's have worn enough that I feel I can replace them without feeling too guilty. I'm looking for 3 things: ride comfort, quiet, and ride comfort. Tread life isn't an issue. Traction is potentially an issue, but we don't get much snow here. I don't need top traction, but would like better than average. I suspect almost anything will be better than the Turannzas.

After checking 3 dealers, I got the following recommendations:

Michelin MXV4

Toyo TPT

Bridgestone Turanza LSV

There has been a lot posted here about the MX4 and TPT, but not much about the LSV. Anyone know about this tire? Just the fact that it's a Turanza is almost enough to steer me away, but they claim that it's an entirely different technology than the stock Turanzas.

Unless I hear something to change my mind, I'll probably go with the Toyos.

←

We should actually start a new thread here imo :whistles: :blink:

What tire size do you need jragosta & what part of the country are you from? :unsure:

:cheers:

SW03ES · September 26, 2005

I've not had the Turanza LS-Vs but I've heard very good things. I did have the Toyo TPTs and now have the Michelin MXV4s and between them there's no contest. The MXV4 is smoother, quieter, has better traction, and I suspect will retain its driving characteristics longer than the TPTs (my TPTs were too loud to keep after 20k miles, even though they had plenty of tread).

I LOVE my MXV4s, and I probably won't ever purchase any other tire for this car again. Improved the car hands over fists.

ArmyofOne · September 27, 2005

You own a lexus. Step up and buy what you know you should. Michelin.

If I had been raised to automatically assume something is the best just because it costs the most then I would be driving a Mercedes. I was raised to know better than that which is why I own a Lexus. Please don't assume I am cheap or that I can't afford good tires simply because I am concerned about getting a good value for my money. I'm certain the Michelins are good tires but before I fork over 20% more than all other comparable tires I need to be assured that they are far superior in all pertinent aspects. The more I look around and get people's opinions it seems that as good or better tires can be had for less. Thats simply how people that know the value of money shop. There are many other tires from quality manufacturers like Dunlop that sell for far less. If I may remind you, Lexus ships their cars with Goodyears, Toyos, Bridgestones, Dunlops, AND Michelins. Lexus seems to think these tires are comparable.

You can do as you please, but unless you can give me some advice other than a statement like that, don't post in my thread.

Anyways...

Alan- The Bridgestones are fairly quiet on smooth pavement but they groan loudly on bad roads and are harsh over bumps. They also have a tendency to get flat spots and vibrate depending on the outside temperature. Wet traction has been subpar also. I've driven ES' with the Michelin tires (they come with the Bridgies or the Michelins) and they ride significantly better, at least IMHO. Check out the Tire Rack's reviews of the Bridgestones, they are one of the lowest rated tires they sell.

It seems to me like the MXV4's are a good tire, but not so great as to be worth the cash. I'm tempted to do the Toyos since they have that 45 day money back guarantee but they're still $20 more a peice than the Dunlops and I can't find anywhere legitimate to order them online (which I prefer to do from a cost standpoint and I like to have my guy install them)...

Also those of you that have gone from V to H rated tires, any adverse effects to the handling of the car?

←

For the money, i reccomend the Falken Zeix ZE512's. they have EXCELLENT wet and dry traction, they are good in the snow and have decent treadwear (60-80K tire life. and they are BY FAR the quitest tire i have ever had, and i have had a lot of tires with over 500,000 miles logged on americas roads.

for $236 i got a set of four....thats out the door price. not bad eh? ill find you a link.

Clicky...$64 a piece

and they are doing free ground shipping too.

steviej · September 27, 2005

Next year I will be getting new treads and it is down to the LSV's and the Michies that SW has. Hopefully Goodyear will decide to market the TripleTread in an H or V rated 215/60-16 by next September. I just hate the Bridgie dealer near me and I feel funny about bringing Bridgies into my Goodyear dealer and asking him to mount them.

steviej

jragosta · September 27, 2005

Well now I have a nail and slow leak in one of the sorry Bridgestone Potenza RE92's on my ES so I'm back shopping for tires.
[snip]

Any advice is appreciated...

←

Although this thread is over a year old, I'm now in the same boat. My stock Turanza's have worn enough that I feel I can replace them without feeling too guilty. I'm looking for 3 things: ride comfort, quiet, and ride comfort. Tread life isn't an issue. Traction is potentially an issue, but we don't get much snow here. I don't need top traction, but would like better than average. I suspect almost anything will be better than the Turannzas.

After checking 3 dealers, I got the following recommendations:

Michelin MXV4

Toyo TPT

Bridgestone Turanza LSV

There has been a lot posted here about the MX4 and TPT, but not much about the LSV. Anyone know about this tire? Just the fact that it's a Turanza is almost enough to steer me away, but they claim that it's an entirely different technology than the stock Turanzas.

Unless I hear something to change my mind, I'll probably go with the Toyos.

←

We should actually start a new thread here imo :whistles:

What tire size do you need jragosta & what part of the country are you from?

←

I live in Oklahoma - so we get perhaps 2 snow storms a year and the snow is gone in a few days. I've spent about 10 years in upstate NY and most of the rest of my life in PA, so a little snow doesn't bother me.

I think the size is 215 60 16 (V rated, if I remember correctly). It's a 2004 ES 330 with stock wheels.

Lexusfreak · September 27, 2005

Hopefully Goodyear will decide to market the TripleTread in an H or V rated 215/60-16 by next September.
steviej

←

I was hoping for the same thing steviej! In that size, they should offer at least an H speed rating & not the current T. They offer an H in my factory size - 205 60 16 & if all goes well, I will have a set of these on before christmas of this year. B)

:cheers:

Lexusfreak · September 27, 2005

I live in Oklahoma - so we get perhaps 2 snow storms a year and the snow is gone in a few days. I've spent about 10 years in upstate NY and most of the rest of my life in PA, so a little snow doesn't bother me.
I think the size is 215 60 16 (V rated, if I remember correctly). It's a 2004 ES 330 with stock wheels.

←

In that size, some tires to consider would be:

- Yokohama Avid H4S

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?ti...e1=yes&place=18

- Folks like the Michelin MXV4's (not a huge fan personally as they are pricy)

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?ti...e1=yes&place=28

- Also an MXV4 S8 version

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?ti...e1=yes&place=30

- Falken Ziex ZE-512 - H speed rated & good for 60,000 miles in this size. For the price, you will find that this is one of the very best values available in a performance all season tire. Made by the Sumitomo tire company in Japan. Awesome wet weather & snow performance.

Overall, I personally wouldn't go any lower that one speed rating down (in your case & mine that is H.....I currently have a V speed rating, but will be moving to the Goodyear Triple Tread in an H speed rating, but unfortunately you can only get this tire in a T speed rating) :(

http://www.falkentire.com/tires_512.htm

I hope this helps & good luck! B)

:cheers:

jragosta · September 27, 2005

I live in Oklahoma - so we get perhaps 2 snow storms a year and the snow is gone in a few days. I've spent about 10 years in upstate NY and most of the rest of my life in PA, so a little snow doesn't bother me.
I think the size is 215 60 16 (V rated, if I remember correctly). It's a 2004 ES 330 with stock wheels.

←

In that size, some tires to consider would be:

- Yokohama Avid H4S

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?ti...e1=yes&place=18

- Folks like the Michelin MXV4's (not a huge fan personally as they are pricy)

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?ti...e1=yes&place=28

- Also an MXV4 S8 version

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?ti...e1=yes&place=30

- Falken Ziex ZE-512 - H speed rated & good for 60,000 miles in this size. For the price, you will find that this is one of the very best values available in a performance all season tire. Made by the Sumitomo tire company in Japan. Awesome wet weather & snow performance.

Overall, I personally wouldn't go any lower that one speed rating down (in your case & mine that is H.....I currently have a V speed rating, but will be moving to the Goodyear Triple Tread in an H speed rating, but unfortunately you can only get this tire in a T speed rating) :(

http://www.falkentire.com/tires_512.htm

I hope this helps & good luck! B)

←

Thanks for the feedback.

It turns out that the Bridgestone LSVs are getting very good reviews. I'll do a little more research and then probably go with the Bridgestones (the shop that carries them is right next door and they've treated me well in the past). The only downside is that they're almost as expensive as the Michelins. I'm a little hesitant to go with Falkens since none of the shops I trust carry them.

Lexusfreak · September 27, 2005

Thanks for the feedback.
It turns out that the Bridgestone LSVs are getting very good reviews. I'll do a little more research and then probably go with the Bridgestones (the shop that carries them is right next door and they've treated me well in the past). The only downside is that they're almost as expensive as the Michelins. I'm a little hesitant to go with Falkens since none of the shops I trust carry them.

←

Due to my past experences, I will never (no matter what) install another Bridgestone or Firestone (same company) on any of my vehicles. If the prices are close & you can't find a reliable dealer for the Falkens, then I'd go with the Michelins. B) But the Yokohama's shouldn't be overlooked as the H speed rating is more then enough for your ES. ;)

:cheers:

norcallexus · September 27, 2005

I've been reading all the comments and replies to your topic of tires, Steve. I put the Toyo Proxes on my 2001 ES and have had nothing but excellent results. They now have about 8000 miles on them and they still perform like new. What do you folks think about siping? I bought my Toyo's through a Les Schwab tire dealer who recommended sipping the tires. I had it done and it does provide significant traction one wet pavement and the overall steering seems better than before. Has anyone had their tires siped?

Lexusfreak · September 27, 2005

I've been reading all the comments and replies to your topic of tires, Steve. I put the Toyo Proxes on my 2001 ES and have had nothing but excellent results. They now have about 8000 miles on them and they still perform like new. What do you folks think about siping? I bought my Toyo's through a Les Schwab tire dealer who recommended sipping the tires. I had it done and it does provide significant traction one wet pavement and the overall steering seems better than before. Has anyone had their tires siped?

←

I'm quite happy overall with my TPT's on my 01 ES as well. They are starting to show wear however (evenly as the alignment, tire pressure & rotations have all been done on time). The Goodyear Triple Treads is what I will replace them with because they are rated better in the snow & have a longer tread life. B)

:cheers:

jragosta · September 28, 2005

I've been reading all the comments and replies to your topic of tires, Steve. I put the Toyo Proxes on my 2001 ES and have had nothing but excellent results. They now have about 8000 miles on them and they still perform like new. What do you folks think about siping? I bought my Toyo's through a Les Schwab tire dealer who recommended sipping the tires. I had it done and it does provide significant traction one wet pavement and the overall steering seems better than before. Has anyone had their tires siped?

←

I tend to recommend staying away from things like this.

If improperly done, you could ruin a set of tires - or cause an accident due to a blowout at high speed.

Even if properly done, I doubt if it's going to add all that much to a properly designed tire (placebo effect notwithstanding). Tire manufacturers spend millions of dollars designing their tires and optimizing hundreds of parameters. Let's just say I'm skeptical that a guy with no more qualifications than that he knows how to use a razor knife is going to be able to improve it significantly.

And even if you can add a couple percent better performance, is it worth risking your life over?

Lexusfreak · September 28, 2005

I've been reading all the comments and replies to your topic of tires, Steve. I put the Toyo Proxes on my 2001 ES and have had nothing but excellent results. They now have about 8000 miles on them and they still perform like new. What do you folks think about siping? I bought my Toyo's through a Les Schwab tire dealer who recommended sipping the tires. I had it done and it does provide significant traction one wet pavement and the overall steering seems better than before. Has anyone had their tires siped?

←

I tend to recommend staying away from things like this.

If improperly done, you could ruin a set of tires - or cause an accident due to a blowout at high speed.

Even if properly done, I doubt if it's going to add all that much to a properly designed tire (placebo effect notwithstanding). Tire manufacturers spend millions of dollars designing their tires and optimizing hundreds of parameters. Let's just say I'm skeptical that a guy with no more qualifications than that he knows how to use a razor knife is going to be able to improve it significantly.

And even if you can add a couple percent better performance, is it worth risking your life over?

←

I couldn't agree more! Well said! B)

:cheers:

amf1932 · September 28, 2005

I've been reading all the comments and replies to your topic of tires, Steve. I put the Toyo Proxes on my 2001 ES and have had nothing but excellent results. They now have about 8000 miles on them and they still perform like new. What do you folks think about siping? I bought my Toyo's through a Les Schwab tire dealer who recommended sipping the tires. I had it done and it does provide significant traction one wet pavement and the overall steering seems better than before. Has anyone had their tires siped?

←

I tend to recommend staying away from things like this.

If improperly done, you could ruin a set of tires - or cause an accident due to a blowout at high speed.

Even if properly done, I doubt if it's going to add all that much to a properly designed tire (placebo effect notwithstanding). Tire manufacturers spend millions of dollars designing their tires and optimizing hundreds of parameters. Let's just say I'm skeptical that a guy with no more qualifications than that he knows how to use a razor knife is going to be able to improve it significantly.

And even if you can add a couple percent better performance, is it worth risking your life over?

←

I couldn't agree more! Well said! B)

←

I double agree. :)

SW03ES · September 28, 2005

As for the Michie's being expensive, I paid less for them out the door than the Toyos, $150 less. You've just got to look around for the best deal, I got them at Costco for $160 a peice including lifetime rotation, balancing, and a road hazard warranty plus $60 off the top. Not a bad deal, just gotta shop for them.

I was also torn between the LS-Vs and the MXV4s, and I've heard nothing but good things about the LS-Vs. If you have a Costco near you they also sometimes stock LS-Vs and can order them for you. Great prices, and believe it or not Costco is the only place that ever balanced a Lexus right for me the first time. So...go Costco!

As for the Falken's I've said this before, but I really think they're too aggressive a tire for the ES. Anything that gets put low profile on sporty coupes shouldn't be mounted on a luxury sedan IMHO, I can't imagine you're getting the best ride you can get with them.

I didn't realize just how poorly the Toyos rode until I replaced them, and I imagine the same is probably true of the Falkens.

Lexusfreak · September 28, 2005

As for the Michie's being expensive, I paid less for them out the door than the Toyos, $150 less. You've just got to look around for the best deal, I got them at Costco for $160 a peice including lifetime rotation, balancing, and a road hazard warranty plus $60 off the top. Not a bad deal, just gotta shop for them.
As for the Falken's I've said this before, but I really think they're too aggressive a tire for the ES. Anything that gets put low profile on sporty coupes shouldn't be mounted on a luxury sedan IMHO, I can't imagine you're getting the best ride you can get with them.

I didn't realize just how poorly the Toyos rode until I replaced them, and I imagine the same is probably true of the Falkens.

←

I will check Costco out for prices......I can get the GY Triple Treads for around $125 (Canadian) each at a few places, so we shall see what Costco can do. I can probably get them for even less (installed, balanced & new valve stems). ;) I actually really looking forward to snow this coming winter. :)

I have to disagree that the Falken's are too aggressive a tire & if one got the H speed rating (in a 60 or 65 series), your not costing yourself any ride quality with the slightly softer sidewall.

My Toyo's are riding great still, but starting to show some (even) wear so I am making a change later this year. Overall, I have been quite pleased & so have several others that have put them on their ES. B)

:cheers:

SW03ES · September 28, 2005

There's more to ride quality than the stiffness of the sidewall. The aggressive tread pattern has got to create more noise than a sedate touring tread pattern, thats just common sense.

jragosta · September 28, 2005

As for the Michie's being expensive, I paid less for them out the door than the Toyos, $150 less. You've just got to look around for the best deal, I got them at Costco for $160 a peice including lifetime rotation, balancing, and a road hazard warranty plus $60 off the top. Not a bad deal, just gotta shop for them.
I was also torn between the LS-Vs and the MXV4s, and I've heard nothing but good things about the LS-Vs. If you have a Costco near you they also sometimes stock LS-Vs and can order them for you. Great prices, and believe it or not Costco is the only place that ever balanced a Lexus right for me the first time. So...go Costco!

As for the Falken's I've said this before, but I really think they're too aggressive a tire for the ES. Anything that gets put low profile on sporty coupes shouldn't be mounted on a luxury sedan IMHO, I can't imagine you're getting the best ride you can get with them.

I didn't realize just how poorly the Toyos rode until I replaced them, and I imagine the same is probably true of the Falkens.

←

I'm with you. I eventually decided on the LSVs for several reasons:

1. The reviews I've seen say that the LSVs are much quieter than the MXV4s.

2. The dealer that I prefer (who I trust completely) has both and he says that the LXV is a better tire, particularly with respect to ride comfort and noise level.

3. While price wasn't a major factor, the LXVs were about $15 per tire lower than the MXV4s.

My LXVs will be here tomorrow. I'll let you know how they feel.