GKLCPA

Yep. I'm familiar with that area. I'm in Upper Naz near route 33 and 191. I live in a development called Hillside Farms We have a couple of things in common; where we reside and "work." My office is not far from Lehigh. I'm in downtown Bethlehem just outside the historic district. I'm what you might refer to as a New Jersey refugee; one who fled the high cost of that state for greener pastures here. I've lived here for nearly 7 years.

GKLCPA, my car is black. I fill up at a Giant store located on 191 and 248. Ok, I live Upper Naz and fill up either there or at the one on Easton Avenue near Stefko. I work in Bethlehem, so the Easton Ave Giant is near work. I see a brown gen 1 around on occasion and thought it might have been yours. I really can count the number of times I see another LS during the course of a week, so when I see one, it's real noticeable. Damn, it's a small world. I'm sure I'll run into one day either here in Naz or in Bethlehem

It might have been a dud. My experience with the Max is very good. I don't think I spent more that 2,500 in basic maintenance over the time I've had the car (about 6 years). Once a radiator leak put me down on the highway, but other than that, she's been very reliable. In a way, the Max is like the LS in the sense that there's a good balance between power and fuel mileage. The LS is a bit more impressive in that respect however. It's giving the same mpg that the Max was. I got it because at the time I was commuting heavily to NJ and I knew the car would handle the miles I was putting on. I ran up 183K miles on it and gave it to my daughter.

Flanker, is your car a chocolate brown in color? There's where I always fill up :) I live in Nazareth, PA. Haven't really noticed any differnce between 92 and 93 octane rating, maybe that's because second generation LS400's have tighter engine tolerences than first generation LS400 engines. I do like to point out, however, that Shell gasoline does not give you more mileage, despite the claim on the commercials. But of course that's based on my experience and my driving habit.

Actually there's a Hess in competition with a Wawa near Airport road that's much cheaper. If I'm over that way, I try to fill up there. Paid about 2.90 there last week. It's 2.95+ everywhere else. There's where I always fill up :) I live in Nazareth, PA. Haven't really noticed any differnce between 92 and 93 octane rating, maybe that's because second generation LS400's have tighter engine tolerences than first generation LS400 engines. I do like to point out, however, that Shell gasoline does not give you more mileage, despite the claim on the commercials. But of course that's based on my experience and my driving habit. I too, tried Shell to see if it had any 'magical' powers as far as mileage improvements. Didnt notice any. flanker...You dont fill up at the Hess station, Schoenersville and 22? <_<

There's a Giant food store that sells gas near me. It's a good deal because you can get upward to 10% off the gas if you accumulate enough points buying the groceries. The only problem is their "premium" is 92 octane and I just began noticing that my fuel mileage is not as good as it is with 93 octane. Where octane levels are comparable, I've noted no difference between brands.

I don't know much about the current crop of Volvo's, but the 240DL's could not be killed. Very durable cars. I saw one for sale about 3 months ago with about 400K on it for $ 600.00 bucks. Besides the LS, the best cars for longevity as far as I'm concerned are: Mercedes Benz 240D/300D Volvo 240DL Honda Accord Nissan Maxima Most Toyota models These are the type of cars that one buys once every 10 years or so and I've owned every one of the above, with the exception of the MB 240D/300D and the Volvo 240 (I did own a 740 turbo). I owned a Accord for about 10 years and never had a problem out of it. I still own a Maxima with 183K miles and haven't done much to it other than routine maintenance. That Maxima is the cheapest car I ever owned from a maintenance standpoint and pound for pound is a very good value. It is also a wolf in sheep's clothing. I have 1990 Volvo wagon with 330,000 miles on it that I'm saving for my son to drive in a few months when he get's his permit. When I compare it with my Dad's 1990 LS 400, the volvo seems dated the day I purchased it, but after awhile the car grows on you. At about year 10, I started to appreciate the volvo's simplicity. Yeah, the brakes have always been an issue as is the old freon AC, but that volvo was built to last. I also had a 1988 honda accord that was literally trouble free. Can you imagine driving an accord 288,000 miles and never having an alignment problem. My new Acura MDX is a lemon compared to these cars.

Among the many things I like about these cars, the fuel mileage is among the top. I'm amazed at how the Lexus engineers pulled this off.

This link should answer your questions about high mileage LS's: http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index...showtopic=18493

The inexorable decline of US auto manufacturers is just a reflection of the larger picture of the US moving to a service based economy and away from manufacturing. Moreover, the pressure from Wall Street to “make the numbers” goes against the idea of foregoing short term profits to invest in the future. A case in point is the infatuation US auto makers had with making the gas hogging but profitable SUV’s. Any economist will tell you that the world is closer to a situation where we reach peak oil production than not. Of course, that means scarcity in the long term. If one knew that, why would one choose to make profits from selling SUV’s that would be at best temporary rather than to invest in something that reflects the new reality of scarcity? The problem with US auto makers, and quite frankly our country in general, is short term non strategic thinking. I'm old enough to remember when we used to laugh at Japanese nick knacks and trinkets. We used to call them cheap imitations of the “good stuff”. The roles are now reversed, especially as applied to US auto makers. Agreed; but the new V8 RWD sedan could change that. They will probably have to create a separate luxury brand like Toyota did with Lexus. That's what they are counting on; an objective consumer. Not sure I buy that. Toyota and Honda manage to make high quality autos here. If you think US labor is expensive, Japanese and German labor is even more so due to higher wages those workers typically command. The reason that Japanese and European automakers have opened so many plants here is because as far as skilled labor goes the US is fairly competitive; and the cost of shipping the cars is less. I think it has to do with the mindset of each manufacturer vs. current market conditions. American carmakers see cars as a commodity; and their strategy was to make as many as possible; knowing that any defect cars could be easily exchanged for another car coming off the line. Cars are required in many US communities so the big 3 knew they had a somewhat captive audience. People HAD to have at least one car. As long as the market was growing quickly the big 3 could just churn out more cars. In Europe cars have traditionally been more of a luxury item; in most cities they aren't required at all. Therefore the products had to justify their necessity; so they were made and marketed like luxury items. European manufacturers traditionally have employed a craftsman-like approach to making cars; with (expensive) highly skilled and trained labor assembling the cars. This made the cars expensive but enabled them to offer added value (high quality finishes, precise components etc) not available in other brands. Also everything was designed and engineered in-house. Japanese carmakers focused on the technique of efficient car production; because they knew they were facing a labor shortage, they knew that they needed be efficient (because all raw materials must be imported) and because quality was (is) important to the Japanese consumer. Japanese car makers have focused on automation for most tasks and reserved human labor for specialized tasks (quality assessment). They also outsource and with and work closely with their suppliers (more than the Europeans); enabling them to offer high quality items at a lower price. The current state of each automaker belies the pros and cons of each approach: In Europe the car makers with the best quality (Porsche) tend to be lower volume, high end automakers that support the craftsman model. Porsche cars are still made with lots of manual labor; and are still high quality; and the cost reflects that. The move towards more mass production seems to have flummoxed many automakers as they are more used to making precise mechanical solutions rather than all electronic ones. Also as Mercedes, VW and BMW have ramped up their production they have also had to cut costs and automate and outsource more of it; this seems to have cause some real quality issues as they are not used to working closely with suppliers the same way Toyota and Honda do. In the US the car market is no longer experiencing such explosive growth; growth has contracted to the point where it resembles the European and Japanese markets; so quality is more important and the more efficient (higher quality) the manufacturing process the more successful the company will be. However US automakers refuse to acknowledge that, instead chasing the easy buck (SUVs, trucks) instead of investing for the future. Now that quality is more important, high fuel costs have leveled the playing field and their market shares are smaller their products and manufacturing processes are no longer competitive with imports. They have too much capacity that costs too much to maintain. Japanese carmaker's biggest problem right now is expansion. Because the human link in their chain controls the quality they cannot rapidly expand without stretching that resource thin (fixed number of people, increasing number of cars). All of Toyota's plants worldwide are running at or over peak capacity; so it's natural for quality to suffer slightly as more cars are going through the system than it was designed to handle. But everything is changing; US automakers are finally taking quality seriously; Japanese automakers are learning there are limits to the rate they can expand; and Europeans are getting better at lean production. BMW can offer Japanese style efficiency with the ability to customize each car; not even Toyota can do that. And the Chinese and Koreans are still something of a wild card. European and Asian carmakers also historically have exported a much larger percentage of cars then US automakers; so they are more attuned to the changes in the world markets because a big percentage of their production depends on it being successful in other markets. Like Darwin said; adaptability is the name of the game. I'm not sure I would count anybody out just yet. (wow that's longwinded :) )

Hyundai is no longer a joke. They may be a knockoff of Honda and Toyota models, but these guys are building seriously reliable vehicles now at good prices. The main casualty of this will probably continue to be American auto makers. Neither GM or Ford has the financial wherewithal, or the products for that matter, to fight these guys off. The sad thing is that it makes no sense for them to be acquired by anyone or even merge among themselves due to their high legacy costs. They'll continue to die a slow death. Wow! Are you telling me your LS430 doesn't start "on the first crank, every time"? During over 17 years, my LS400's have never failed to start on the very first try - even at -20 F. temperatures. However, over 10 1/2 years with my 79 Mercedes 240D (purchased new), it was a challenge to get it to start at all when the ambient temperature was below about 15 degrees F. Mine wasn't the only Mercedes diesel abandoned in the company parking lot when it got cold. Do you happen to live in southern California where it is usually quite warm? Your 82 240D that cost $22K when new was only $10,500 when introduced in 1977. The rapid price rises from 1977 to 1982 were largely caused by the drop in the value of the U.S. dollar against the deuchmark during those years. (The U.S. dollar zoomed back after about 1982-3). The base list price of my virtually identical 79 240D was about $15,000. The optional (manual!) A/C alone was over $1,100 - interesting because the A/C couldn't begin to put out enough cold air in the summer even when the car was brand new. Even with all the pain from driving three Mercedes cars a total of over 400,000 miles, I still do have some nostalgia for the brand. I sure do wish I could have persuaded my father to buy that pristine ultra low mileage white 1963 300SL that was on Aristocrat Mercedes' showroom floor in Kansas City in 1968 -- absolutely perfect and it wasn't selling at the asking price of $7,500. I suspect that Hyundai and an upcoming Chinese auto company are going to blow Lexus away during the coming years. Hate to say it but I have little or no loyalty when it comes to buying cars or anything else -- I buy what is the best combination of quality and price regardless of who makes it. jainla, that was one great write up you did on your phone system install a while back!

I've always liked the 300D series and I was real tempted to buy that car as it was in pristine condition. But the mpg is really not all that much better than my LS which has more acceleration power (I routinely get about 20 mpg in mixed driving and 25+ on the highway). To be sure, the diesel will have a better fuel mileage, but diesel fuel is more expensive also, so it's a wash The LS is as durable as the 300D from the standpoint of the total miles you can put on the car. I plan on driving mine to the 250K+ mark.

i actually ran into a guy who had coverted a 300D to bio diesel. Those Mercedes diesels are damn near bullet proof as far as I can see, the only thing is that you have no power, although the Turbo diesel variety isn't too bad in the regard. I was real tempted to get that 300D as the car was in pretty good shape and would have run forever, but I figured I already had a car like that with my LS. Nothing like the feel of that Mercedes on the road though. It's good to hear that they're trying to address some of their quality issues. For a brand as venerable as MB, it's a shame to have unreliable cars.

John, no question about it, the Mercedes is a prestige vehicle and it's everyone's dream to have one. They have 100+ years of history behind them, so they've got the prestige positioning thing down. It's almost as if they're riding on their past reputation and they're nice cars when they're running and your wallet is not being assaulted. :) You're right, there's nothing wrong with praising or desiring other cars and if MB had the reliability of the LS, I'd probably buy one. Actually, the older vintage 240D/300D are still very solid cars that last forever. I wouldn't mind one of those. I saw a 1982 300D with about 60K miles on it about a month ago for 6k that I was tempted to get.

After reading the first post here, I decided to visit a Mercedes forum to see what they were saying about the cars. Here's a link that we might find interesting: http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w220-s-cla...er-oo-s430.html The first thing I noticed about the forum was a lot of complaining and rancor, something I've never seen on this forum thankfully. I believe that reflects the difference in quality between our cars and the Mercedes vehicles. That's not to suggest that people don't encounter problems with our LS's, it's just that the problems aren't serious flaws in design or workmanship for the most part. Also, people here are much more helpful and there is an absence of rancor among posters. The S430/500/600 apparently has some serious electrical problems along with a few other issues according to some of the posters. I'm glad to be an LS owner instead.

I have no doubt that the Benz is nice and feel very solid. I used to own one and they are great cars--when they're running and not in the shop. The 500 is slightly heavier than the LS and has a bit more horsepower and that may account for the more solid and powerful feel. But as you say, the LS is way more dependable and I believe it's a great car in its own right as well. The Benz I had was a used one that was about 10 years old at the time I got it. During the first year I owned it, I probably spent about $ 2500 in repairs in addition to normal maintenance. The LS I purchased last year was about 10 years old as well. During the first year of ownership, I have spent about $ 1,200 on just normal maintenance (fluid changes, new rotors, new all season tires, winter tires and light bulbs). There have been no major repairs. The LS is the best car I've ever owned IMO.

You might want to do a search on the discussion forums at this link: www.clublexus.com A lot of folks who post there are into lowering their cars and can advise you.

I was referring to 1990LS400's post and his gallery with pictures of his 1990 and 2000 LS. His 1990 LS with 183K miles looks virtually new. And yes, your car looks great as well. I gotta post some pictures of mine.

I painted them before and the paint came off. Apparently, I got the wrong type of paint. Once I get some clarification on the paint needed, I'm going to attempt that first before ordering new ones. What type of paint did you use?

Damn, that 1990 LS looked superb at 183K miles. The thing that is amazing about these cars are the timeless design and utility. I really don't see myself driving anything other than an LS at this point. I agree that buying a brand new one is a rip, especially when you can pick up a low mileage used one for less than half of its "new" price. Even with a used one, one will likely have decent transportation for a long time. I figure that I'll probably be driving the low mileage 96 I bought last year for at least another 8 to 10 years and then buy another one. These are the type of cars that you can buy once every 10-15 years. What exactly were you expecting? As long as you are satisfied with the deal you made, that is all that is important. I certainly don't know enough about your previous or "new" LS to comment about the deal. If you have a specific question about your car, I can try to help since I have a 2000 Platinum LS400 with Nak instead of nav. I've done quite a bit of disassembly of the interior while installing electronic toys so I know a bit about how things are screwed together. Not really expecting much really, just figured a few guys would chime in about the deal. Yes so far I am very satisfied about the deal, like I said time will be the true test. What color combo is your car? How long have you had it? How many miles? Any known problems with that year model like the older ones (power stering, dash lights, etc, ?) Thanks for any info. The info I put in the gallery explains what I have: http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index...=si&img=815 The 2000 LS400 I bought in 2003 was the first used car I had purchased since I bought a used Mercedes 450 SEL in the 1970's. It has been a very enjoyable car and seems completely different from the 1990 LS400 I drove for over 13 years. With low mileage use cars like this available, I doubt if I will be buying any more new cars. You might want to check to see if all outstanding TSIBs have been applied to your car. It is too late to get them done under warranty but at least you will know where you stand. The most serious TSIBs are about the tilt/telescope of the steering wheel. My LS400 was manufactured at the end of the 2000 model year and about four months after the start of LS430 production. I'm lucky that most of the fixes were done on my LS at the factory. The power steering pump issue was of course resolved long before the 2000 model year. Dash and radio lights are apparently still subject to failure - I ran into a guy with a 99 LS about two years ago who just had the LCD in his radio repaired. I now have about 92,000 miles on my 00 LS. The first non-maintenance item requiring replacement were the lower strut bars at about 88,000 miles -- about the same as on my 90 LS. I drove my 90 LS from 5 to 183000 miles before I sold it and I suspect that my 00 LS will require similar suspension component replacements at similar mileages.

Semi matt paint? Is that what it's called or do you mean semi metallic?

Thanks Blake. I'll either order from these guys or see if I can get from my local lexus dealer. It's a little thing, but it makes the car look like crap around the window, so I'm glad I posed the question and got an answer. Thanks again. They're a little less than $90/side at Park Place:http://www.trademotion.com/partlocator/ind...amp;catalogid=2

I don't know if window border is the right term, but I'm referring to the black plastic strip that borders the front windshield. Mine has got the paint peeling and the silver underneath is showing and I've tried to paint once, but the paint didn't keep. Can you replace this strip and how much does it cost?

Sounds like an excellent deal to me. Congrats!

I'm routinely getting 20 to 21 mpg in combined city and highway driving. On the highway I'm getting 25 mpg. Good fuel economy is one of many features I like about my LS