jainla

You are sure you are leaving it in D4 and not D3 all the time? Are you using the recommended fuel? Has it always been this thirsty or is it a recent occurence (maybe oil hasn't changed in a while/needs service or something)?. Probably as you approach 80 you are nearing the torque peak of the engine in that gear (which I'm guessing is about 3500+ rpm---those rev happy Hondas!). At that point the engine has the most twist to supply and you're moving towards the power peak so it will take off like a rocket! Also the V-Tec will switch to the high rpm profile for better breathing. That's possible. Also most American engines are tuned for more torque, so the final drive and gearing are taller. As you go faster the rpm level doesn't rise as quickly. All other things being equal a higher RPM usually equals higher fuel consumption. My ls430 stays under 2000 rpm in 5th at 60, go over 80 and you're approaching 3000 rpm. Also the PE had a larger engine than the RL (I believe 3.8 liters) so the baseline consumption is probably higher. The original LS400 was rated 18/23 mpg. The new ones are rated 18/25.I don't know about 6sp vs. 5sp, maybe someone who's had both cars can weigh in here. So far the mags can't discern much performance difference. The 430s will have better mileage than early 400s because of the extra 5th gear and better aerodynamics. I have heard the final drive in early 430s was a little lower than in the early 400s, perhaps someone can clarify that. The last generation 400s (98-00) had 5 speed autoboxes, so they will get closer to the 430 in gas mileage. I don't know what the cd for the RL is, but the LS has traditionally had one of, if not the lowest drag coefficients for a 4 door sedan; I think the current car with air suspension is .25. That definitely will give it an edge in any mileage race.

So far I've been seeing about 19-20 mpg on premium fuel, and that is I'd say 30% hwy 70% city. On a recent trip to San Francisco I was showing 27-29 mpg on the highway, this is at 75mph plus (at one point I had the cc set to 85 but traffic on the 5 can get heavy at times). The 01-03 LS have a 5 speed auto, later cars have a 6 speed auto. What does the RL have? I freely admit that I'm not an agressive driver, so if you fancy yourself more like Mario Andretti than Ms. Daisy YMMV. :chairshot:

Am I missing something here? Are you saying that Toyota doesn’t have much experience because it’s younger than Mercedes? Not experience, but brand exposure and history. Mercedes cars in the 50's and 60's were seen as premium products and even style icons in their day. Toyotas were originally known as being seen as cheap and reliable; but hardly style icons or a prestige brand. Lexus has only been around for 17 years, and mostly popular in the US, so they don't yet have a whole stable of iconic cars to reference in their sales and marketing efforts; or to recall in people's memories. They have some very good ones (i.e the first generation SC, the LS) but they also haven't been pushing as hard to get these cars media play. Also to be fair the luxury import class was far less crowded 50 years ago than it is now. I think it will just take a little time. The new L-finesse language, love it or hate it, is very original and more importantly differentiates the Lexus brand from Toyota and other Asian brands. Being distinctive is part of the game in developing strong brand identity.

I think you are actually asking 2 questions here; who has the stronger brand and who makes better cars. I think from an empirical standpoint the win for the cars goes to Lexus. In comparison test after comparison test (and I can think of at least 8 over the last 17 years and I am sure there are more) Lexus wins. By most measurable standards; the cars are more reliable and better put together (My LS feels like a Rolls Royce inside compared to the same generation S Class). Recently they are also much easier to use and live with in everyday life. While Mercedes has come up with some really useful and groundbreaking new technology some of it can be considered superfluous and gimmicky (COMMAND controller anyone?), but such is the price of progress. Toyota has also made many technical innovations in the last 17 years, and many consider them of more value to the motoring experience; and they don't wreak havoc with the car's reliability. Factor in price and Lexus wins hands down. The strength of the brand is another matter however. Mercedes Benz has 100+ years of experience and history to draw upon when establishing their brand in the marketplace, and apparently it still matters for a lot of people. Having a car from the people that 'invented the automobile' has a certain cachet, and for people who grew up watching rich successful people drive Mercedes Benz they are fullfilling a dream. I'm sure the aura of the 300SL and countless other models flashes through owners minds when they walk into a showroom. You can however take a brand focused on marketing too far. In the mid '90s Mercedes decided that in order to increase sales, and take advantage of the emerging 'luxury' lifestyle they had to up the ante in their brand image. They switched the marketing and branding from focusing on the engineering of their cars to a more style/feeling focus. Instead of selling the car as a technical achievement, they sold it as a lifestyle. It worked; Mercedes sales soared, but in order to reduce the price of entry (and increase sales and profits) the cars were built to a marketing pricepoint instead of high engineering standards (the opposite of the approach in the past). Witness the cheaper interiors and failing components that post 95 cars have suffered. They are still paying the price for this. It was not always so. the MB cars from the 80's and early 90's were well made cars that were reliable and also technically advanced. My '81 240D still starts on the first crank, and continues to run well at 189,000 miles. In the 12 years i have owned it is has broken down and stranded me exactly 2 times; both for minor maintenance items like an alternator or battery. However this entry level car would probably cost $50,000+ in today's dollars; far more than the C Class does. Ignoring such problems can almost destroy a brand. Witness Rolls Royce, who still had a sterling brand image but because of lack of investment arguably made terrible cars before being taken over by BMW. The Rolls of the 80's-2000 were terrible cars by most measurable standards; obsolete, inefficient, unreliable, and ruinously expensive to buy and repair. In certain markets such as Florida their clients defected in droves to Lexus when it was launched. Let's hope Mercedes does not continue down that road. Lexus and Toyota don't have that vast well of experience and history to draw on - yet. Part of that is the inital focus only in the US of the Lexus brand, and a lack of a coordinated, global branding gameplan. But young people today see are starting to see Lexus as a luxury brand. At the last TOL even I went to the vast number of people there were college juniors and seniors, so I think the tide is changing. Already the Toyota brand, about 30 some years in, has a more favorable image than any domestic brand and even other Asian brands; and Scion is a huge success in its demographic. So they can do it. Also I think Toyota also has not historically paid the attention to marketing with Lexus that Mercedes has. They have not historically sponsored sporting and other high profile events, for example but this is changing. With Lexus being launched in brand-hypersensitive Japan they will have to create an image, an aura of what it's like to be and own Lexus. You can see for yourself on the Japanese Lexus site that they are trying to sell much more of a feeling and a lifestyle than a car. If I have learned one thing about cars, it's this: Never ever EVER underestimate Toyota. Chapter 2 I think has yet to be written in this particular saga. and PS 1990LS400--among my friends I too refer to my car as the "Big Toyota"

The DVD drive for the nav system is in the trunk; and I don't think it will play movie or audio DVDs. You can upgrade the system yourself but the DVDs are expensive. The '04 LS has a generation 4 system. You can see the latest update here. I know that certain years they didn't update all the information, so you might want to look around and see if its worth it to buy the latest and greatest version; you might be able to update your area with an older, less expensive update which frequently pop up on Ebay.

I don't think it will be $125k. They said at the Jan launch they said 'we will kill them on price.' In the US the Lexus brand still does not quite have the aura of the German brands(despite being measurably better cars); and value for money is still a part of the Lexus brand. Once you hit $125k people are going to buy whatever car they feel like buying; at that level you are approaching the S600/S65, 760iL, and real performance cars such as any number of Porsches and for not much more certain Aston Martins and even a year old Ferrari. At this price point; people are willing to pay more for 2 things; performance and prestige. Witness why the S600 is priced so much more than the S500; for those buyers the exclusivity of the V12 and the increased power make it a compelling proposition. Other than the engine; some trim bits and suspension tuning (and probably tires and wheels) the S600 is quite similar to a fully loaded S500 -same shape, same size, same options, etc etc.. It begs the question do buyers at this level consider the hybrid powertrain by itself a prestige item? I'm sure some do; but those who put environmental concerns at the top of their list aren't going to buy this car. Witness the rash of celebrities buying the Prius, when they could have had a Geo Metro or a diesel Golf which would be about as efficient. That's why the Prius works; the whole car screams hybrid; which for some is a prestige item. In this price class I'm not so sure that 'hybrid' by itself has the same allure; I think the perception is that saving fuel always seems to be a concern of people that can't afford it (get off the soap box we're talking about our theoretical rich person here :whistles: ). If people really want an obvious hybrid they'll by a car like this AND a Prius. I think Toyota wanted to play in the big leagues and compete directly with Mercedes and BMW's top models. In order to do that they needed 2 things; a long-wheelbase option and a performance option. I would guess that they chose a hybrid over a V12 because they could use basically the same engine (easier to develop and manufacture) and hybrid technology (which they already have a substantial investment in). They are also very good at it; and it obviously is more efficient and makes it easier to meet emissions, CAFE, etc etc. There is also the favorable publicity as well as the 'halo' effect it would have on other Lexus and Toyota hybrid models, and there is a certain prestige with high technology; which they certainly seem to be pushing as a major selling point for this car. The reason it has a 5.0 liter engine is because this car is biased towards performance. Stopping and starting the LS requires more energy than a GS or Prius because it weighs more; yet I bet the battery pack can't be made substantially bigger because of space expectations and weight. So it won't last as long in normal driving as the packs in the smaller cars do. That means in percentages it can do less of the work. The thing that cracks me up about hybrid owners (at least in Socal) is that they barrel along at 85 mph in the fast lane up the steep Sepulveda pass. Thing is the Prius has a pretty small engine, so the battery provides a lot of the juice. Once you run through the battery pack, which driving at high speeds or up hills does, the whole system becomes literally dead weight. So you're burning much more fuel than you were before because the the engine is working harder, and it's now moving the car and charging the battery. The LS has to perform; people are paying for it to perform; so its got a bigger engine to haul around the hybrid system when it drains. The hybrid system probably adds just enough performance to get it into V12 territory, and the efficiency is a side benefit. Most of the benefit from hybrid technology comes from stop and go driving, so the hybrid system is probably geared to engage during that kind of operation only; and there drivers will see substantial benefits. If they offered a V12 option with the same performance I bet the car would sell just as well.

They have a couple other little videos under the 'Feel lexus' section on the main site; everything else I can't understand. I hope this is the direction the US site is going towards; I think it looks a little dated. Oops...the safety video is in Japanese. If you want the english version it's here at the Geneva microsite: http://lexus.jp/ms/2006geneve/ The features look really wild; it's like HAL driving the car. It also has a lane keeping assist system that nudges the car back into the lane on the freeway if you stray; hopefully only when the cruise is on! That's what I'm thinking....I bet starting and stopping that big V8 all the time will tax that electric motor; also it probably uses more gas to start and stop than the v6's so leaving it on more probably doesn't affect fuel economy that much. It probably runs like the Honda system where it augments the motor; allowing it to run more efficently in normal mode and then cranking it out in power mode. They seem to be the only major feature that's not available in some form on the gas-only car. They are cool. The US microsite has also been updated with some hybrid specific information: http://lexus.com/lsreveal I thought I liked the car in silver but I think I like this new darker grey better...you can see more of the brightwork. Can't wait to see one in the flesh....hopefully they will be at TOL this year.

There's a little video on the Japanese site as well; click movies and then click hybrid: http://lexus.jp/ms/2006newyork/contents.html The naming convention is consistent with earlier hybrid models; where the number is the equivalent of what a conventional gas engine would generate (i.e. rx400h performs like it had a 4.0 liter instead of the 3.3 its got). Frankly I was expecting more than a 50 hp bump from the 4.6 liter....the 5.0 on its own could probably make about that much. The electric system will probably increase torque though...but it will have to cope with the AWD. The Audi A8, 760il and Phantom all make around 450 hp from ~6 liters; so the only cars that the 600h is really trailing are the turbo Bentleys, S class and Maybach cars and presumably they will all cost at least another $50k. Who knows perhaps the 4 wheel drive and high-torque electric motor might give it a slight edge out of the gate? They didn't seem to release any performance numbers. I notice there is still a tach....interesting; wonder if the engine runs more than other hybrids do? Perhaps just a preproduction model? I think the allure of hybrid technology at this pricepoint remains to be seen. The RX400h seems to be doing well for its particular segment, but its and SUV and they have gotten negative press re: mileage as of late. Nobody seems to care that an Arnage gets 10 mpg in the city. the GS450h doesn't seem to offer a huge increase in power or fuel economy over a standard GS 430; and if they put the 4.6 liter engine in there who knows how much value the hybrid really adds. At this level people can certainly afford another $5000-8000 for the hybrid and awd system but do they really want it? I think the bigger change is the 2 wheelbase and 2 engine strategy; in this configuration the car range is offered the same way that the BMW 7 series, A8 and S Class is here. It hits a wider range of tastes and markets; and it looks like from a size and performance standpoint it can compete directly with the 750/760 and S550. The S600 and S63 will be faster; but the old S500's always sold much better (and in real world terms performed about the same) than their V12 counterparts. I'm very curious as to how all this new tech is going to be priced. Read an article that in Europe Lexus's lower pricing than their competition has actually hurt their brand image. So in order to be truly competitive in Europe they would have to price the top model around $140k. I don't know if people in the US will pay that much for a Lexus; even one as fantastic as this car looks like it will be. I'd figure anything more than about $90k and they're pushing their luck. But people also said that nobody would buy a Lexus over a Mercedes in 1989..... Doesn't mean I still don't want one though....

Hi Jim, I have a 1990 ls. I take it to Luxury motorworks in Monrovia.626 256-4849.They a factory trained and use on oem parts. And they have 400ls for loan cars. Good luck,sbguy Wow lexus loaners from an independent...wish Monrovia was closer to me!

I have heard Carson Toyota is great for Lexus parts. Anybody have a lead on a Hollywood or West Side shop? Independent Repair is not that far from me though...

The LS usually uses a Pioneer CD changer, so this might work: http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/prod...2089315,00.html You might loose the CD changer functionality, but it might be work checking out. Good luck!

I know the LS climate control system uses mylar flaps instead of conventional plastic flaps. Is the system set to run on auto or are you specifying fan/vent settings? Perhaps one of the motors running the airflow handlers is slipping or something? Sounds odd though that it runs so long after the CC shuts down (I can hear the handler run for about 5 seconds after I turn my car off). The other thing I know is that the air filter for the passenger cabin is behind the glovebox on the passenger side; maybe it's loose or not fitting properly and air is bleeding through it somehow? Try opening the windows (will make it harder to hear I know) and see if it goes away? Good luck....keep us posted

Lexus provides 1 courtesy ECU replacement per car during its life. You have to hem and haw and gnash your teeth a bit (and maybe call corporate) but they will do it (search on this forum and you'll find evidence that it's true). I do know if you give the VIN and registration info to Sewell Lexus in Dallas (www.lexus-parts.com) they will cut the key and send it to you; since you need just the trunk you won't need the transponder programmed. I bought a new remote key for my car off of Ebay from them and they cut and shipped it to me cut for about $100, half of what the dealer would charge me. If you don't want the remote control I think they had the plain transponder keys for about $60, so you might want to look on Ebay also and see if they are listing any keys. It would open the door and trunk but it didn't start the car until I took it to my dealer (Lexus of Santa Monica)--they programmed in about 10 min for free! Might be a good idea.

I don't have much, but mine's a youngin'...barely 68k: I was driving to work the other day, sunroof open, stereo on. Happy camper. Then I heard this very faint noise. Like a rattling noise, or maybe a rumble. Oh crap. Tires? bearing? balance off? I pull up to a light. Sound still there..comes and goes. Oh sh*t. Something in the engine? the AC? I turn the climate control off. Still there, but can't hear it with all the music. Kill the stereo. Sound dies. Oh crap....not my tunes. :cries: Turn stereo back on, change tracks on the CD. IT WAS IN THE MUSIC. Some drum or cymbal sound, which I had never ever heard on my ipod or the home system, but god forbid my stereo didn't reproduce it where nothing else would. I've gotten so 'lost in the music' listening to the stereo that I've missed exits, turns, parking spaces. God forbid I plug my iPod into it someday....look out. So that's one. And the fact that whenever I hear a rattle or a ring I get annoyed. They have turned out to be; the aformentioned music, the strap on my briefcase while going over a particularly pitted stretch of road, my lunchbox (right next to speaker passenger wheel well while listening to Moby), and my glovebox not completely closed b/c of the cd wallet inside it (didn't shove it in all the way). And a CD jewelbox on the passenger seat which wasn't closed properly. So this whole pursuit of perfection has turned me into a neurotic freak about noise when I'm in my car. "You're breathing too loud! Stop that!" So that's two. The seals that surround the doors seem to dry out real easily on my car. So if I go over a big bump or heave in the road at low speed I hear a faint creaking noise around the door if its especially cold or dry out (thought it was the leather at first). And I keep forgetting to treat them before I leave for work. So that's three. I find myself glaring at people when they slam the doors too hard. Its not necessary. Just give them a gentle shove, and they latch shut like tupperware sealing with that wonderful se-lunk. I don't know if its the door checks or the hinges but they seem to accelerate as they are closing, so don't need to be slammed like a drum on a Trojan barge. But they do it anyway and I see the sunroof glass lift up a little for a split second. Makes me cringe. That's four (file that under neurotic freak). Mysteriously when people find out I drive a Lexus nobody wants to/feels like/can handle driving anywhere anymore. "Just pick me up" they all say. "Oh you can drive this time." "I can't drive, it's too wet/cloudy/sunny/dry/my moon is out of alignment so I'll come with you." etc etc. I should put a meter in and charge for mileage like a cab. That's five. That and all the extra time it takes to remove all the engine covers....I'm sure adds at least an hour to the labor bill (but all cars have that now I guess). When they have to do that, which is once in a blue moon. Umm.....that's all I got. No doubt about this relentless pursuit of perfection, looks like we're all along for the ride! I guess we all get worried about each little niggle because we know the cars can be perfect. And for the record I agree that the cupholders on the S430 (and the old E320 for that matter) look like some kind of torture device from the inquisition....and they break real easy too. Don't remember the cupholders from the Toureg, but the Phaeton ones hold a Starbucks and that's it. I actually liked the design of the old 7 series cupholders...but they didn't hold anything larger than a large soda. I don't have a problem with the cupholders because I don't let people drink anything in my car (except spring water) so they never use them! (file under neurotic freak again). :chairshot:

Hey jacsil welcome to the forum! I went through the same dilemma about 6 months ago when I was searching for my car. Cars with the sport suspension seem to be relatively hard to find, at least here in Southern California- I’ve only seen a couple on the road. I couldn’t find one that had the nav system and other options that I wanted. From what I have heard the Sport Suspension is as firm or even firmer than the Air suspension on sport mode. Magazines that have reviewed the sport suspension option seem to really like it; but from what I have heard it’s not a night and day difference vis-à-vis the air or normal suspension. I think there are some posts in this forum about upgrading the shocks; if you search this forum you might find some more posts on where people have found upgraded components. The choice of tire will also affect the ride; the Sport Suspension models came with tires that were grippier and rode a little more firmly than the other cars; they had 17” wheels as well (they became standard for all cars in ’03). The Sport Suspension option was available on any of the cars except the Ultra Luxury cars. The Custom Luxury package has the Mark Levinson sound system and the navigation system; as well as the parking sensors and the heated/cooled front seats. The Ultra Luxury package adds stuff like the rear window sun shades and the power reclining rear seats, the headlamp washers and rear A/C and fridge; they also have suede-like headliner, more leather covering parts of the dash; which you may or may not think are worth it. The Navigation and ML system were also available as standalone options. The only caveat is that the Air Suspension is expensive to fix if the air springs start leaking (you can also get kits to convert it to a coil sprung suspension), but you won’t have to worry about that until you hit 90k+ miles (the service manager at Lexus of Riverside told me he’s never seen one go out until about 150k miles, so YMMV). Other than that the gadgets on the UL cars seem to be fairly reliable. I searched for a couple months for a car in the color and features combination that I wanted with the sport suspension, but ended up going for an Ultra Luxury car because they were (believe it or not) easier to find. I think something like 30-40% of 01-03 cars were sold with the Air Suspension, something like 15% had the sport option. Good luck! -J

I have fond memories of this article; if I'm not mistaken that issue has a red Ferrari 348 being driven sideways on the cover? The calm before the storm. Soon after this magazine came out my father and I test drove an LS 400 with a family friend. We were all amazed at how capable, compitent and friendly this car was. The spookiest thing about it was the quiet. So so quiet. A year or so later we drove the Q45....the first generation Q was a bad-!Removed! on the road. I bet my dad still regrets not buying that car. In retrospect the LS 400 really did wonders for the high end of the automotive market. The MBs, BMWs and Audis of today owe their success to that spunky challenger from Japan that stood up and said Anything you can do, I can do better. Cadillac and Jaguar might still be icons of obsolecence (Cadillac is still somewhat debatable). And of course today's LS has had a fabulous reputation to build upon. The thing that strikes me now is how dated some of the cars, particularly the Jag and the Caddy look now; the BMW even looks a bit dowdy in these pictures. The original Q45 still looks interesting; and the MB is some variation of a classic car theme. Despite all the ribbing the LS styling got when it came out I think it's the design that aged the best of this group. I still see a well maintained example here and there...and I'm still amazed how contemporary they still look. Thanks for a great trip down memory lane!

Wow...I was in the same position about 6 months ago. I started out wanting an 01-03 GS430 and ended up with an LS430. Here's why i went LS: 1. The LS430 platform is newer than the GS platform of that era; the GS was introduced in 1998 2. At least here in SoCal the price difference between the GS and LS of same age is minimal (have seen GS for more actually) 3. LS has newer materials inside and a more modern look 4. LS with sport package/tires or air suspension handles surprisingly well; I would venture almost as well as the GS 5. GS is significantly smaller inside than the LS430. Both front and back, headroom and legroom. the GS seems smaller inside than even the ES330. LS is quite roomy in all dimensions. 6. LS gets better gas mileage than the GS430 and on very close to GS300. 7. More features/options than GS But GS is faster Styling is less anonymous and more aggressive. GS certainly feels sportier LS has something of an 'old man' rep (unfairly deserved I say) I say drive one of each (with Ms. in tow) and see how you feel. If you want to sway her make her sit in the back of an UL LS with massage seats.... I wanted the features and the softer ride, and I needed the room so I went LS. But I don't think you can make a bad choice either way...LS-GS. Tomato-tomato...

Sorry about the crash...hope nobody was injured. Don't be so quick to write off an '01-'03 LS430. Personally I think the color combinations for interior colors and wood are better, and they will be a little (but not much) easier to find. If you call and ask nicely the dealer will give you the in-service date from the VIN; my LS430 is among the last '01 LS430s made and so far I have had 0 problems. There weren't that many changes between the 01 and 02+ cars, some navgational system tweeks (adaptive volume control for voice directions) and I'm sure some minor changes but the feature set is the same until you hit '04. The only gotcha on the early models was a recall (or maybe just noted issue) for defective windshield gaskets, this was limited to some early cars with the Custom Luxury package and almost all CPO cars have this corrected. That said if you have the choice between an 01-03 and 04 that are in all other respects equal don't choose the newer car just because of the bluetooth integration: everyone I know who has one said it's not that great. The system is not as compatible or flexible as some aftermarket systems, and the choice of phones that Lexus will guarantee to work with it is limited. However the keyless entry and 6 speed autobox are pretty cool; if its worth the extra cash to you go for it (nobody seems to be able to prove that the 6 speed is any faster than the 5 speed but you can manual shift). If you are thinking about buying private party or from a non-lexus dealer see if you can get your local Lexus dealer to do the CPO inspection on the car. It takes about 2 hours, costs you about $120-180, but you'll have in your hand a complete list of what Lexus itself would fix in order to certify the car as CPO. Some dealers are cagey about doing it (make them do it under the seller's name) but they will give you the most comprehensive inspection; they know what to look for on these cars. Aside from that I can't recommend one highly enough--they drive like magic. These may be the best cars (Lexus has yet) built on the road today.

After reading all these snow stories I can't resist.. :P When I was growing up in Pennsylvania and going to school in CT I drove 3 cars fairly regularly in the snow: a Peugeot 505 wagon, a Nissan Maxima, and a Mercedes 240. Both the Pug and the MB were RWD and the Max was front wheel drive; none of these cars had ABS or dedicated snow tires (all hail the all-season radial). Every once in a while (especially when the snow was just falling) I'd go out and 'test the limits.' Then the next day we had to actually go places in that stuff. Some interesting observations: The Peugeot was actually the best in the snow. You could lock the wheels, but the car went absolutely where it was pointed. A heavy foot was needed to break the tail away (not much power) but you could control it fairly well. The MB was right behind, stable, balanced. Its diesel engine wasn't going to win any drag races, but it also kept the car from fishtailing. I bet the tire choices (it had crappy tires) limited its grip compared to the Peugeot. The Max, the FWD car was actually the WORST in the snow. You didn't fishtail, but the V6 could still easily break traction if you goosed the throttle. Also, when you slammed on the brakes, the car would skid (and this is scary) start to rotate, usually to the right. It was not very controllable, and letting off the brakes didn't always give you back control. I think the 2 reasons for this strange performance were the tires and the engine power and placement. The tires on the MB and Peugeot were not very wide, basically standard-size tires for the day. This made the contact patches smaller, which increases the pressure per square inch at each corner. Bad for track work (because the specific pressure over area limit comes up sooner and you lose grip) but great for snow because it pushed more deeply into the snow surface and increased the specific pressure per square inch (basically put you closer to the limit for most of the time). The Max had fairly wide, fairly low profile tires. I'll bet this spread the weight over a greater area and gave it less traction in the snow. Most trucks designed for heavy snow or mud work have skinny tires. The other was the power/weight ratio and placement of the engine. In a lighter, less powerful car FWD and RWD both probably have a more central weight balance (lighter engine). In this case FWD is probably more stable b/c the greater pressure at the front wheels gives those wheels better traction for starting and controlling the car. Once the car gets heavier and more powerful (the above comparison the Max was both the heaviest and the most powerful) I suspect the ultimate stability advantage would go to the RWD car; the FWD car will have a much larger forward weight bias; so the traction limit of the front tires is more easily exceeded, and the rear tires won't have enough weight over them to compensate. As others have pointed out those tires have more to do (steer and pull) so a loss of traction would do more to affect stability than a RWD car. Also with more of the mass centralized at the front of the car instead of balanced front to back it actually becomes easier to rotate it (less moment of inertia for you physics geeks out there) so the car may become less stable if you break traction on all 4 wheels; it might not necessarily go where its pointed. So the FWD car won't fishtail when you pull out, but if you somehow break traction you might be in trouble. With the advent of traction and stability control and ABS all the above concerns are somewhat eliminated; but the basic physics is still there. Even with ABS and TRAC/VSC the rear drive cars are more controllable at the limit; especially if you exceed the reach of the electronic control systems (getting harder to do but still possible). Case and point you don't see any FWD cars with more than 300hp and they ALL have stability control....even Cadillac changed the STS to RWD with its last model changeover. A couple years ago Car and Driver did a snow driving comparo with a Subaru SVX, a Pontiac Bonneville, and a Mercedes 500e. All the cars had the same tires and were balanced the same (thanks to some gravel in the seats or trunk). They found the AWD Subaru had an obvious overall advantage, but the Pontiac and the MB were equally easy to drive with the traction control turned on. At that point it came down more to the specific capabilities of the stability control (MB was better) than the layout of the drivetrain. Turn off the TRAC and it was another story (basically the MB was so powerful that it was hard to make a meaningful comparison). So FWD-RWD is not always an apples-to apples comparison. If your traction sucks in the snow obviously snow tires will help almost any car; you maybe don't need dedicated snow tires but narrower, all season radials would probably give you a better performance than regular street tires. You also save your summer tires and rims from all the salt and gravel that sits on those road during those months. But in bad weather (and aggressive driving on good roads) the RWD layout has some fundamental physical advantages. In the end though, AWD in the snow is the way to go. My friend's Suburban was unstoppable through the worst blizzards in PA... Wow....Sorry for the long post....slow day at the office.

Nissan has (or had) a very interesting CVT that used a series of convex/concave rollers with slotted surfaces under very high pressure. The inside rollers pivoted between the outside rollers, and depending on the angle it changed the gear ratio. It was offered in the Gloria/Cedric and Cima cars in Japan (not sure if it survived Le Cost Killer Ghosn-san or not). Its big thing was that because it didn't have a belt or a chain it could handle around 300hp& lb/ft of torque. Not bad for back in the day but probably not sturdy enough now . I think Aisin-Warner is building the 8 speed autobox; saw that online a couple weeks ago. They make most of Toyota's transmissions. ZF makes a 6 speed transmission that runs with a pair of of planetary gearsets; don't know if it obviates the need for a torque converter or not. It's used on the BMW 7 series, Rolls Royce Phantom and Jaguar XJ cars (I think Audi/VW/Bentley also use it for their W12 cars but I'm not sure). Based on the video at the launch conference it looks like the 8 speed AT uses at least 2 Planetary gearsets...can't see if the torque converter is still there or not. Most of the technology in this car actually has been premiered in some form before: VDIM in the IS and GS, variable ratio steering and electronic braking (yuk) in the GS. There is some all new tech but there will already be a couple years experience in production by the time this new car arrives. Still, I hope Lexus hasn't gone over the edge here. Self parking? Don't want to be around when that breaks...but the music server sounds cool. From the pix looks like some variant of the current Ultra Lux will be offered (wood panel or maybe controls in armrest) for those of us that want the ability to seat 5 people in the car. Can't wait to see it in person!

Check it out: http://lexus.jp/ms/2006detroit/ A very nice page from the Japanese Lexus site with some cool pix and cool videos (I think these are the videos they showed at the press intro). They also have a page for the LF-Sh which has more videos and some other pictures...the two cars seem to be identical save some trim bits and badging. All in all very impressed; much nicer than some of the spy pix would suggest. While I will miss the more 'classical' (and I know some of you say boxy) looks of previous LS models this one manages to be aggressive and muscular without going over the top (i.e. the banglized 7 series or the fender-flared S-Class). If this is what the L-Finesse means I'm all for it; this design seems truly original. SWB and LWB models both wear it well. It looks mighty swoopy, I hope that they didn't cut headroom that I like so much in previous models. I echo Blake and Steve's sentiment about buttons, buttons and more buttons! Also buttons you can SEE and READ at a glance--does anybody else think the new S-Class buttons are too small and clumped together? Pix of the NAV screen also indicate the touch screen has survived....good! No odious control knob! I will miss the cleaner look of previous interiors, but this one manages to incorporate all those controls without looking like the space shuttle or a video game gone bad. There are some oddities (massage rear seat only on right hand side? only 1 footrest?) but perhaps these will be smoothed out before production starts. But the power and tranny should be fantastic--380 horses-- 8 speeds. I'll bet the hybrid version really kicks a__. Seemingly no AWD for the non-hybrid powertrain, at least for the first year. I'll bet those guys in Stuttgart and Munich are worried......very worried

Sounds like the MAF or the O2 sensors...I remember someone saying they took off the MAF and the LS ran like a racehorse...(you can search for MAF and racehorse and maybe you can find the post). Might explain the weakness in the upper rev range. If you can, remove the MAF and repeat the test? I don't know if the engine will run without it or not. Let us know if you figure it out I think it's fantastic that we are talking about near-new performance in cars with a quarter million miles or KM. Now THATS moving you forward.....

If you search the UK forums there is somebody who had the kit installed in his '01 LS. Has a full review but don't remember if it has indepth technical notes or not. Sounds pretty cool. Let us know if you decide to go that route!

I would argue that Toyota's manufacturing is inherently superior to most American manufacturing (along with design also being superior). In the late 1970's and early 80's Toyota realized that Japan's population was aging. They knew that their supply of future labor would be limited, and increasingly expensive. It was decided to invest a tremendous amount of time and money to automate parts of the manufacturing process. They built a new plant near Tahara that made unprecedented use of robots and automation to perform repetitive, tedious (and hence error-prone) tasks. This would free the expensive, scarce (and highly trained) human laborer to do things that robots could not, namely intricate assembly operations, troubleshooting and quality inspection. Many in the industry thought that Toyota had gone overboard, and that they would never recoup their investment. This is the plant that produces the LS400/430, SC430 and several Toyota models. It regularly wins quality awards as having the highest quality products and most efficient manufacturing system in the world. This manufacturing system has spread to other plants in Japan and abroad, even here in the US. This high degree of automation would probably not be possible for GM and Ford (certainly not at that time) because it would mean, initially eliminating jobs. I doubt the UAW would take too kindly to that. Now Toyota has a 30 year head start in robotic assembly and can focus time and energy in creating more manufacturing innovations instead of playing catch-up like US manufacturers. Toyota also has higher standards for parts suppliers for Lexus models than for regular models. Toyota requires suppliers to have a defect rate of one per million parts. Lexus models allow one defect per 10 million. Ten Million. Yes they may be produced in Malaysia or wherever but the boats do come over here too you know. But wait, that means Delphi workers might be out of a job. While Japan and Europe have some advantages with their state run health systems, we're talking a max of $1500 a car here. Maybe if Ford and GM weren't giving away $6k in incentives per car this shortfall would be surmountable. I think decades of labor and management butting heads has finally done GM and Ford in. They are in real trouble, and hopefully the union leadership and management can work together to improve the design and manufacturing process to create quality products. Either that or they are all out of a job. The name of the game in the car business is that you have to get the product right. Chrysler has had great success recently, so it's not like the Americans can't hack it. Toyota is a company (still) run by engineers. GM has ceded control to the bean counters. Guess who designs and produces quality products?

I drove a Mercedes diesel for 12 years; a little 240D with manual transmission. That car was indestructible; I still have it. People who ride in it marvel at the quality of the interior materials and how well they have worn, and aside from a little rust (the car was in Pennsylvania for the first 10 years of its life) the exterior has held up well. After 25 years, it starts on the first crank and it gets about 27 mpg. Some cars 1/2 its age can't do that. For years I thought a pre-owned E or S class would be the next logical step. When I went shopping for a new daily driver, all the reports of the reliability issues made me think twice. One of the things I loved about my 240 was its durability and dependability. I had been intrigued by the Lexus models, but never really thought of myself as driving anything that didn't have the 3 pointed star on the front. A friend of a friend told me to drive a Lexus since I had a MB for so many years. I figured what the heck.... I have had my LS430 for 2 months now. It's an '01 but it looks and drives like it's brand new. Every surface, control and interior piece operates with precision and feels like it will last forever. On the road it does everything with an understated, friendly competence. Every day I seem to notice something it does particularly well. Toyota took what Mercedes cars used to be and improved upon it; my LS has been a delightful surprise. I'm very curious to see the next LS when it lands in a year or so. One day I hope Mercedes will return to the lofty levels of quality and durability they once enjoyed; management seems to realise that they have some work to do. If that's a side effect of Toyota entering the luxury market then we all win! When that happens maybe I'll buy one, but I'll certainly consider another Lexus.