Rx 3 Row On Hold-Speak Up!

[pj8708]

There has been a lot of talk about a 3 row (7 seat) RX, but the current information says this configuration has been put on hold. The article attached gives a good outline of what Lexus is using as help in making this a "go or no go" decision.

Given the long time success the RX has enjoyed, many of you 157,000 members might have some feedback for Lexus. Look over the information using the below link and post your opinions on the subject.

If we get enough good postings/threads, maybe we can send them to Lexus and see what they have to say!

Paul

https://lexusenthusiast.com/2015/11/03/lexus-three-row-crossover-put-on-ho

[1990LS400]

I can see where Mr. Toyoda is coming from. The Lexus brand and the RX in particular has been targeted more towards ... ahem ... "mature" drivers. The Toyota brand has been targeted towards younger drivers and already sells multiple vehicles with three rows of seats.

Both the Toyota Highlander and the Lexus RX continue to share the same understructure and have the same wheelbase - 109.8 inches. When third row seats were added to the Highlander for the first time in the 2014 model year, there was room to make them suitable only for children or diminutive adults with a mere 27.7 inches of legroom - not at all Lexus-like.

It was in the news some time back that the largest Lexus dealer in Japan lobbied Toyota for a Lexus version of the Toyota Alphard or Sienna three-row vans but was turned down. The Toyota Alphard Executive van has an incredibly high level of equipment, a commensurate price equivalent to over US$100,000 and is often used as a chauffeured vehicle for corporate executives.

My take is that we will see a three row RX when 20- and 30-somethings with kids start buying the RX.

[pj8708]

I think your right Jim. Over the past 15 years or so, the buyers who have purchased the RX have been those with a need for a little more space when traveling or running errands that need room for hauling more than a gallon of Milk. The true SUV's are the big Yukon's, Suburban and so on. The most interesting thing to me is the most important feature named by both female and male drivers is the higher view of the road, and the feeling of more control and visibility. I have heard this comment from every female RX owner I've ever talked with.

That being said, the higher visibility might be off-set by the feeling of driving a truck if a third row was added. When talking about luxury SUV's and "cross overs" I go back to the glory days of the "Hummer"! Now there was a collection of ideas that just begged to fail. It went for the guy with the gun rack hanging in the cab, the ability to compete in the state fair tractor pull, a plush cabin with lots a comfort for "The Wife". Lost of cargo room and a power train that mandated you pull a rail road tanker of gas to make sure you can get across town.

IMO, the hummer was almost too much in a market that still wanted to have luxury but luxury they could afford. Whether big "L" decides to build a third row RX or not. I agree they might be better of doing a make-over of the LX. The LX has a face that only a Mother could love.

Paul

( I reserve the right to be wrong, but not for you to point it out to me.) lol

[GDixon]

I think Lexus considers the large SUV market covered by their GX and LX lines. In fact, the introduction of the NX is an indicator of the direction they are taking.

One problem with making a quality product is that there is little motivation or need to upgrade to a newer model with marginally better features or styling. With that in mind, my 2008 RX 350 with 50K miles will be my car of choice until Lexus comes out with a van-type product similar to the Sienna.

Currently, my "travel" car is a 2014 Honda Odyssey. Had a Lexus van style been available, it would have been purchased instead. Both the Odyssey and the RX will be traded in on a new Lexus van if, and when, it is created.

[1990LS400]

Had a Lexus van style been available, it would have been purchased instead. Both the Odyssey and the RX will be traded in on a new Lexus van if, and when, it is created.

Don't hold your breath waiting for a "Lexus van style", Dixon.

The RX is sort of the "anti-minivan". People who wouldn't dream of driving a "mommy-mobile" van are fine with driving a pseudo-SUV RX. There doesn't seem to be room in the American marketplace for a large luxury brand van or MPV. Mercedes gave up on its R-class MPV a couple of years ago after selling very few and it is unlikely that its V-class/Metris is going to make it to North America.

The fully optioned Sienna Limited is already nicely Lexus-like with nice leather, memory driver seat, ottoman middle row chairs, power reclining 3rd row seats, acoustic glass, roller blinds, Pre-Collision System, radar adaptive cruise control, Safety Connect (S.O.S.), Entune, HID headlamps with auto high beam, rain sensing wipers, power folding exterior mirrors, dual screen Blu-ray rear video, front and rear sunroofs, VDIM like the RX F-Sport and on and on.

Other than a hybrid drivetrain, the 2016 RX appears to be the first RX that has significant features (e.g. Lane Keeping Assist, all-speed adaptive cruise control) that, at least for now, are not available on the Sienna Limited. I suspect that the redesigned generation 4 Sienna Limited will have those features when it is introduced for 2017 or 2018.

[GDixon]

Yes, I did a test drive in the loaded-out Sienna. It was not nearly a Lexus driving experience. Bells and whistles are nice, but the point of a vehicle is to drive it. Comfort, noise, handling, and engine performance trump any thingamajig in my opinion.

Strangely, driving the Honda Odyssey WAS very Lexus-like. It is almost the same driving experience. There is more cabin room than an RX as well.

Certainly, the Odyssey is not the overall quality of a Lexus but we have taken many long trips in it. The long trips in the RX350 compared to the long trips in the Odyssey are nearly indistinguishable.

Plus, with the second row removed and third row folded, there is an incredible amount of storage space. We don't have to unload the Odyssey to get to our golf clubs like we do with the Lexus RX.

We test drove the GX and LX as well. They were a bit too truck-like and handled as such. Not a great deal more storage space or decent fuel economy for a travel/trip vehicle. Our Tundra suits the truck needs just fine.

[lenore]

Sad, my wife wants the extra seats for our Grandchildren....Lots of use I am sure have grandbabies....She has always complained about this, and looked at Accura because of this lack of the third seat. Also when she goes out with the girls they end up in the Accura.

[1990LS400]

Yes, I did a test drive in the loaded-out Sienna. It was not nearly a Lexus driving experience. Bells and whistles are nice, but the point of a vehicle is to drive it. Comfort, noise, handling, and engine performance trump any thingamajig in my opinion.

I have to wonder what generation and variation of Sienna you test drove. My 2014 Sienna Limited with ATP is vastly more similar to the Lexus LS cars I drove for 24 years than any RX loaner provided by the Lexus dealer or other RX that I have only ridden in. Here an article about the 2014 Sienna Limited like I have before it got the facelift for 2015 - the article says Sienna XLE but that might be because the Limited is called the XLE Limited in Canada: http://driving.ca/toyota/reviews/road-test/road-test-2014-toyota-sienna-xle

There have been several threads on this forum in the past few months from owners complaining about the "busy" ride of the RX350 and its tendency to dangerously oversteer when making sharp turns from a stop. There is none of that in the much longer wheelbase Sienna and VDIM makes all sorts of corrections including to steering if you overdo it.

Maybe you can actually find a Toyota dealer that has a Sienna Limited with the Advanced Technology Package in stock since you are California and much further from the factory than I am. Last year when I tried to find any Sienna Limited just to look at before ordering one, none of the seven Toyota dealers in the metro area had one. Sienna Limited with the Advanced Technology Package seems to be extremely rare ... easy to identify by their different grill. I've seen only one on the road since I started looking early last year.

VDIM is an extraordinary technology which I hope will become standard on all vehicles made by Toyota. Here is a Wikipedia page about its "hand of God" properties: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_Dynamics_Integrated_Management

[GDixon]

I believe the 2014 Sienna I test drove was a Limited Edition but can't be fully sure. The bottom line for me was that the Odyssey is a noticeably better driving experience.

As a passenger, my wife also enjoyed the Odyssey more. She is a rabid Lexus (Toyota) fan so her choice was surprising.

But we've never owned or driven any other model of Lexus other than the RX. Our 2008 doesn't seem to wander or have the "busy" steering problems you mention. Driving through the Nevada outback at 111 mph (max) on narrow two-lane frost-heaved roads would surely have brought any issues to light.

VDIM is interesting and has safety features that likely are attractive to some. But, being a year short of 70 years old and old school, VDIM appears to take the "driving" away from driving. As Ben Franklin stated, "Those who would give up freedom for safety deserve neither". In a different context, of course.

In my younger days, a series of Porsches honed my driving skills as my wife and I would search weekends for, and drive, the curviest roads in Northern California. Autocrossing was also an interest. That was before ABS became a standard. Perhaps it is overconfidence, but I'd rather control the vehicle rather than the other way around. IMO, of course.

[1990LS400]

Our 2008 doesn't seem to wander or have the "busy" steering problems you mention.

The forum threads I mentioned were about a "busy ride" and not about wandering. One of those threads in the RX sub-forum got another comment yesterday if you would like to take a look at it.

The forum thread about the RX steering was about a perhaps unrealistic expectation that one could gun the throttle of an RX from a stop while sharply turning the steering wheel to the left without inducing over-steer.

VDIM is interesting and has safety features that likely are attractive to some. But, being a year short of 70 years old and old school, VDIM appears to take the "driving" away from driving. As Ben Franklin stated, "Those who would give up freedom for safety deserve neither". In a different context, of course.

My, but you are old. You've got me by three years. VDIM is not at all intrusive and doesn't take anything from driving any more than Porsche's "PTV Plus" which corrects steering by independently braking the rear wheels to put the vehicle back on the course that PTV Plus "thinks" the driver wants to go. Both these systems allow stupidity - intentional or not - without consequences like crashing, injury, death.

Have you ever pushed your RX hard enough for VSC to activate? A little scary, eh? I did that many times on purpose in my 2000 LS400 when driving on snow and ice in Winter just for fun. By the time VSC activates, the vehicle is going out of control. VDIM activates just before that point so that "out of control" is never reached.

In my younger days, a series of Porsches honed my driving skills as my wife and I would search weekends for, and drive, the curviest roads in Northern California. Autocrossing was also an interest. That was before ABS became a standard. Perhaps it is overconfidence, but I'd rather control the vehicle rather than the other way around. IMO, of course.

I never cared much for Porsches before the Panamera. My main exposure to them were 356, 912, the awful "Volks-Porsche" 914-4 and the 944 that were owned by others. I had another "discussion" with my wife just last Sunday about buying a Panamera and she again said "NO!!!". I drove several hundred miles of California Highway 1 north and south of San Francisco on separate trips a few years back for my "bucket list" - would have been a lot more fun in a Panameria than the not-so-great rental cars.

I'm loving all the safety and convenience technology that Toyota and other manufacturers are introducing. I thought about that yesterday when I was driving to work in traffic, rain and darkness on mostly interstate highways. Traffic flow varied up and down between maybe 30 and 65 mph and visibility was sometimes poor. I was absolutely fine with letting the Sienna's radar cruise control do most of the accelerating and braking for me and never having to touch the windshield wiper control.

What could get us to replace our current vehicles sooner than planned is if vehicles we like are introduced with significant self driving capabilities. I still enjoy driving but I would not mind just monitoring a system that did it for me. I'll be driving to Paul A.'s neck of the woods in a couple of weeks and would just as soon "sleep" while driving through southern rural Iowa.

[VBdenny]

Most interesting comment that the main reason for the SUV vehicles was higher view of the road, and the feeling of more control and visibility. Back when everybody drove cars, you didn't need a higher up vehicle but once the minivan and pickup thing started it was bigger and higher up. My wife likes that hence her RAV4.

While the "higher view" and "visibility" parts are true, the "more control" part is certainly false. If higher up vehicles had better control wouldn't race cars all be higher up? No, the main sacrifice you make with SUV's is the handling which I why I drive cars. While I can't see squat and the visibility may be less, but there certainly is much more control.

[GDixon]

Maybe the 7-passenger RX is not out of the picture.

Details are in this article about a Lexus pickup truck.

http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/buy-lexus-pickup-truck-lexus-may-build-one/

[pj8708]

Maybe the 7-passenger RX is not out of the picture.

Details are in this article about a Lexus pickup truck.

http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/buy-lexus-pickup-truck-lexus-may-build-one/

I hope that Lexus quickly drops the pick-up idea. Trying to be all things to all people seldom works out. Just the shear mayhem of trying to keep every model full of all the new technologies every year would cost a fortune in plant and equipment. Additionally, recruiting and keeping the very best and brightest engineers, software developers, and designers willing to move to Japan could be a tough task.

Paul

[ehc0720]

I was trying to decide between an Acura MDX and the RX350. I chose the RX because I didn't want to be hauling around the extra weight of a 3rd row seat, and loose storage space. Now if they make it an option I'd be for the change.