Rx400h

[RX400h]

Nice pics! I feel better knowing that others are saying the added cost will not be too much. The good news is that if for some reason, the out-the-door price is astronomical, I can always get my deposit back and get the Highlander.....still saving my pennies........

[PharmGuy]

Hey SW03ES,

Very very nice pixs. And I've wavered some on my position for an V-8.

If their going to make only 2 choices, maybe a V-8 and the hybrid would be

sufficient. As for the pricing, have to wait and see, best guess it's going to be

up there.

PharmGuy

[SW03ES]

No there isn't going to be a V8 version of the RX, the 400h IS going to be the "V8" version. So there will be two models, the RX330 and the RX400h.

I see no reason whatsoever to expect the price to be significant over the 330. Toyota has traditionally way underpriced their hybrid model the Prius and the 400h doesn't even have some of the features the Prius does...

[RX400h]

Headlines in the San Diego Union Tribune, May 12, 2004:

Hybrid-car popularity shifts into overdrive

" Gas-guzzling muscle cars are being overtaken by unassuming little hybrids. And the Toyota Prius is leading the charge.

For the first four months of the year, sales of the Prius are up 80 percent from last year, and April sales are more than 150 percent higher than a year ago. Waiting lists in San Diego County Toyota dealerships range from 60 to 330 people. many would-be Prius owners are having to wait as long as a year."

Current average number of days, nationally, that the following vehicles remain on dealer lots before being sold:

Toyota Prius 6

Honda Insight 24

Honda Civic Hybrid 46

Lincoln Navigator 47

Cadillac Escalade 49

Hummer H2 60

Chevrolet Suburban 67

Ford Expedition 70

[cagleman]

If anyone has questions on what the Prius has to offer, I have owned one for about 2 years. Besides the Fed tax deduction, I also received a tax CREDIT from the state of Colorado...total savings about $6,000 in all. If I remember the wording of the Fed tax forms correctly, I wouldn't necessarily say the 400h would not qualify. Check with your tax professional.

[SW03ES]

Not sure about the tax savings but I know the emissions exeptions and the HOV exemptions have to do with the MPG, in MD it must do better than 50.

[RX400h]

Notice the number of days on the lot for the Honda Civic hybrids. The Prius and Sienna are trouncing the Honda competition big time! :chairshot:

[cagleman]

Honda, IMO, is not true competition...apples and oranges (at least to some degree). Honda uses IMA (integrated motor assist), the car can't run solely on electric power. The engine is always running. Toyota can run on just electric power (at low enough speeds or on the right declines). That's nice, especially living in Colorado going up and down the mountains. I am a little concerned about the HP of the 400h, if it is like the Prius. I suppose you can't have a muscle-car that is also a high-mileage vehicle.

Too bad about the HOV exception, I have heard similar issues in other states as well.

[SW03ES]

The Honda is a totally different type of vehicle and doesn't even classify for the tax breaks or the emissions exemption.

cagle- No reason to worry about the HP on the RX400, 270 with V8 performance

[cagleman]

Ahhh 270 HP along with the nice low-end torque provided by an electric motor, that should be a sweet vehicle! I assume the 270 HP is the combined HP of both the gas engine and the electric motor. The Prius had a combined HP of, I believe, 110 HP. Having a wife and 3 kids, I really can't wait for the Toyota mini-van hybrid currently on the road in Japan. It looks really nice.

[SW03ES]

I don't know that we'll get that Japanese spec Minivan, I think we're going to get a hybrid version of the Sienna.

[RX400h]

Yes, in 2006 the hybrid Sienna will be released to the US. By the way, both the RX400h and the Highlander hybrids will pump out 270 HP. The Highlander seats 7 and both vehicles are expected to be rated at 35 or 36 MPG in the city. My Corvette is rated at 19 City and 28 highway and I'm getting 17-18 in almost all city driving. Therefore, I may be able to achieve 30 in the RX400h (I would think) in city driving.

[SW03ES]

Or more, many Prius owners get more than the EPA 60MPH figure for city, it just takes some learning to drive the car to achieve the best fuel economy possible.

[RolandB]

Local Lexus salesman said they'd been told 2 weeks ago that deliveries wouldn't start until March 2005 :o Also he thinks they'll get $5k more than RX330! Anyone hearing different?

[RX400h]

Yes. The Lexus dealerships around here (San Diego) say January is the month and in all likelyhood, 2-3K over a 330. However, I still see full-page Lexus ads in car magazines that pronounce the Fall of 04 as the introductory date.

[sveet]

My dealer said that they are reserving at MSRP. He expected that MSRP to be about $2-3K over a RX330. Since I got $3K off MSRP, that equates to a minimum of $5K premium. Thats ALOT of gas!

[RX400h]

Based upon 20,000 miles of driving per year, with 80% of that being city-type driving, I calculate that the annual savings at soaring gasoline prices ($2.30/gallon here in San Diego) will allow me to save $1225 per year. Even if you drive only 15,000 miles per year, that's still $920 savings per year, so if you plan to keep the vehicle for more than 5 years, the savings start piling up. Now factor in the higher resale value........

As you can see, it doesn't take long to pay off that $5,000. The added bonus is that we won't have to stop for gas every week. That in itself is worth a small chunk of change to me!

[sveet]

Let me have a try at this math...........

20000 Miles / Year Divided By 30 Miles Per Gallon = 667 Gallons Per Year

20000 Miles / Year Divided By 18 Miles Per Gallon = 1,110 Gallons Per Year

1100-667 = 433 Gallons Saved

433 Gallon * $2.30 = $995 per year

You are a fairly extreme case, putting 20000 Miles per year of city driving on and top of the scale gas prices. For you it actually probably make sense. For me it doesn't.

My miles are more more highway, were the incremental benifit drops. My gas is cheaper. And I probably can't get myself to keep a car 5 Years.

In the end it is the resale that might really be in your favor. I have this gut feeling that Hybrid's are really going to be the buzzword / sought after technology. It may make your RX440 actually hold a significanty higher resale than my RC330.

One potential problem is when Ford does the Escape, most likely really screws it up with many many problems, recalls, TSB's, like they usually do (especially with a new technology), it potentially could "drag the whole Hybred concept thru the mud". Guilt by associtation type of thing. Probably not, since Honda / Toyota are already several generations into it, with no major problems, the public probably won't draw the wrong conclusions.

[RX400h]

Actually, I used 36 MPG in my calculations, since that's what I've seen as the projected milage. Ford is using 38 MPG and according the their NYC test results, this figure is entirely possible.

You are certainly correct in saying that those who drive mostly (uncrowded) highway miles are less likely to recover the extra $ quickly, but even those who use the highways often (in or near large cities) end up experiencing plenty of stop-and-go driving which more closely resembles city driving than highway driving. Combine this "morning commute" traffic with actual city traffic and the savings from having the engine shut down often will really accumulate quickly.

As far as the Ford hybrid goes - I believe most people expect the worst after many years of the Focus problems. Lexus and Toyota? ......I have no doubt that they will be well-received!