Timing Belt, Water Pump Replaced...now Leaking Oil From Bottom Of Ocer

[mnesbit]

I have a 95 ls 400.

I had my timing belt and water pump replaced a couple months ago.....and noticed around that time minor oil spots on my drive way...nothing major and didnt bother to look at it closer.

i now have a major oil leak....which appears to be coming from bottom of the cover of the timing belt.

I am assuming there are gaskets which maybe were not replaced or have failed.

Does anybody know which gaskets these may be and I would like to know if the mechanic should have replaced these as part of the work order...or should I have requested the seals to be replaced?

Also I would guess that the timing belts would now be covered in oil. If so, should these be replaced or is a good cleaning sufficient?

Thanks for your comments.

Mike

[curiousB]

If it is oil it is either coming from the seals on the cam shafts or the main crank. A lot of people recommend changing these while doing a TB job as most of the effort is done to get at the TB. Once you are there it isn’t too much extra work to change the seals.

I wouldn’t bother trying to save the TB. The cost of a new belt is nothing compared to the labor to fix this oil leak. Salvaging the TB is the least of your worries at this point.

As for hammering your service guy. I guess it depends if there were signs of a leak back then. He is likely to deny anything and you'll be hard pressed to prove otherwise. Maybe you can negotiate a settlement where you only pay parts and 1/2 the labor to fix the leak as compensation for failing to recommend new seals back then...

You decide how to proceed but my feeling is a full on flamethrower assault probably won’t help. The facts aren't strong for you. I think I’d appeal to the guys sense of fairness instead.

[billydpowell]

I am thinking YOU should have requested the 3 seals be replaced, they are so cheap.. plus put on a new belt ... and maybe through your tuff luck, others on this site will learn to do it all the first time...

[curiousB]

I got to disagree with you on this one Billy. I think the service guy should recommend what needs to be fixed and other issues should be addressed "while in there".

Hard to see how regular owners would know what to ask for. I wonder if the service writer is concerned about $$$ sticker shock of the extra work, or are they happy to do it over later when the seals fail. Maybe they just don't see many seal failures and feel its not worth the extra $$...

I did my own TB 23 months ago and didn't do seals. If I have the car at 180k then I probably will do then seals on next TB cycle.

[landar]

Before making too many assumptions, check for simple things. I had an oil leak that turned out to be just a loose oil filter. The previous owner who changed oil forgot to fully tighten it. Even if you lack the mechanical skills to do a TB/pump replacement, you can still start taking some covers off to get a better idea of exactly where the leaking is coming from. Nail that down first.

A competent and honest mechanic should notice a wet crankshaft or cam seal and alert you to replace it. But in the end, it is really up to you to keep an eye on any issues and take charge. I like curiousB's suggestion of trying to negotiate a "half off sale". Seems fair to me. But get the leak isolated first. Oh, BTW, "if" the belt did get soiled in any way, just toss it. It is toast. You should also have had the tensioner and idler pulleys replaced as well.

[mnesbit]

I checked the oil filter and plug yesterday and they are all ok. I have isolated the leak at the bottom of the timing belt cover so I think it is one of the seals inside. This car has 506,000 km on it which the mechanic knew so I would have assumed he would have suggested replacing the seals. Thanks all your comments.

[landar]

506k km is a lot of miles. If it is a seal and the mechanic won't "deal", I would find a new mechanic. Someone more on the ball and an advocate for you, the owner.

[lenore]

that is a lot of mileage. the crankshaft itself could have a wear groove in it. Can be fixed with a Stainless sleeve for repair and a new seal...A new seal may not work if this is the case until you put the sleeve on....

[billydpowell]

I got to disagree with you on this one Billy. I think the service guy should recommend what needs to be fixed and other issues should be addressed "while in there".

Hard to see how regular owners would know what to ask for. I wonder if the service writer is concerned about $$$ sticker shock of the extra work, or are they happy to do it over later when the seals fail. Maybe they just don't see many seal failures and feel its not worth the extra $$...

I did my own TB 23 months ago and didn't do seals. If I have the car at 180k then I probably will do then seals on next TB cycle.

I dont see the OP as a regular owner, he has been a member here for 4 years, and has 39 postings, so he must know something...... but anyway - whatever.

[mnesbit]

of course i know something...did i look at what needed to be replaced once in there...nope...however I have been having the same mechanic replace almost everthing from bushings to spark plug leads and major suspension components.

at some point i need to rely on professionals whether mechanics or dentists to do their job properly and that includes the obvious of replacing seals during the dismantling of the engine..that is a no brainer as far as I am concerned..

[billydpowell]

at some point i need to rely on professionals whether mechanics or dentists to do their job properly and that includes the obvious of replacing seals during the dismantling of the engine..that is a no brainer as far as I am concerned..

that is true, I was not judging YOU, just giving my opinion on the situation. knowing this operation, I would not even consider a TB/WP job without new seals, and as such I think everyone should do the same... that is just me. that is why I said "I am thinking YOU should have requested the 3 seals be replaced" I was not passing final judgement on you, but trying to help others, that is why I said "and maybe through your tuff luck, others on this site will learn to do it all the first time.."

If I offended you, I am truly sorry..

[mnesbit]

Hi Billy...thanks for your comments.

no offense taken by your comments. i should have probably clued into the need to replace the seals.

i have spoken to the mechanic who i really like and according to him it appears that the leak is coming from one of the cam shaft seals. they are refunding me the $$$ on the timing belt install but do not want to replace the seals...citing not the right tool to hold the crank in place while the seal is being taken out. i doubt if that is the real reason.

here is my question....is replacing the camshaft and crankcase seals easy and how many hours should it take for all three seals.....and is there any special tool needed including one to hold the shafts in place while the seals are taken out?

thanks, Mike

[billydpowell]

The hard part is taking nearly everything back down to get to them.

you can remove them with an ice pick or skinny screwdriver, and just tap them back in.. Cam seal from ITM Engine Components.15-01526 2 per engine,

priced each 2.57

Timing cover seal (crank front) 15-01524 1 per engine 2.57

90 thru 97 all 4.0 Lexus engines

I cant tell you where I got mine on here (PD gets after me) but email me at

billydpowell@hotmail.com and I will tell you. I have done 5 of these with out failure.

good luck..

[mnesbit]

Hi to Billy et al..

I am just taking a few days to figure out what to do with this car.

Despite all the miles it still runs and looks great.

I will go ahead and repair the leaky cam/crank shafts and have considered doing it myself....but it really doesn't make too much sense for me to do that due to my current schedule.

So I will probably hire somebody to do it. I like the mechanic I have been using...but now he is saying it is a big deal to change the seals....so my question is....is it a big deal? How many hours to replace all 3 seals once the timing belt is off? Any special tools needed? And what is the risk of getting the cam shafts and crankcase out of sync?

Thanks, Mike

[billydpowell]

It is NOT a big deal on 90-97 engines, 98 & up YES... on the CAM seals (for old pros only). not the crank seal.

with the belt off, the two cam pulleys have to be removed (one bolt each) and you will need a puller to remove the crank pulley, then the seals are in plain site.. So, less than an hour to do it.. And there is no risk for us, we dont turn the cams more then a quarter turn and then just move them back to position (look at the driver side cam, it moved from 11 o'clock down to about 8 o'clock - just barely see the white alignment mark showing) and the second pic shows it turned back to position: good luck..

[Larry W]

I just replaced my water pump, timing belt, oil seals, over flow tank, clutch fan, valve cover gaskets, plug wires, Denso spark plugs, new coolant etc. I ordered everything from Rock Auto as recommended by fellow Lexus owners on this site. Every part arrived within 5 days by Fedex to my front door. I did score a set of pre-fitted Mallory wires which retailed for $103 for only $42 from Rock Auto. They had 8 sets and were discontinuing them. The entire job took about 10 hours. I live in South Florida and your cooling system better be up to speed. Its averaging about 93 degrees and I do a lot of hot starts during the day (maybe 10-15). After 200 miles the coolant gauge has never been close to the half way mark. I was going to replace the radiator also, but it was in good shape so I'll let it go for now. Just happy to have to the car back on the road and it may take me 7-8 years before this service is due again. At 118,000 miles I have awhile to go. Great car. Great advice from this site. NO oil leaks (yea!) Thanks again for the opinions.

[mnesbit]

Hi Billy and everybody else.

The leak has been isoated to a cam so I will replace thart and the other seals myself.

I have done some reading which has indicated the cams have to be removed to replace the seals. Is this for the 98 and newer years only?

I assume the cam seals are cut out and replaced just like the crankcase seal and the cams do not have to be removed. Please confirm...and is there a link to this. I have the links for the crank case seal.

Thanks everybody for your comments.

Mike

[landar]

Here's another idea, maybe worth considering depending upon how much you want to put into the car and how anal you are about repairs. You *might* get by with some RTV worked into the seal area of the leaking cam. There is really no pressure there so it would not take much to plug the leak. This of course is not an ideal solution but it could "buy" you some time, perhaps years. Just something to think about. What's the worst that could happen? So it continues to leak. Already doing that.

[billydpowell]

already answered. It is NOT a big deal on 90-97 engines, 98 & up YES... on the CAM seals (for old pros only). not the crank seal.

with the belt off, the two cam pulleys have to be removed (one bolt each)

[mnesbit]

I am going to change the tb myself but need to confirm a few areas:

1. my ls400 is a '95. there is conflicting info floatin around that the timing has to be advanced 50 degrees during the procedure...however, i believe it should be kept at 0 degrees through out the process. please confirm.

2. how many hours to complete the process on the basis i know enough to be dangerous?

3. what are the best tools to remove the crank bolt, crank pulley and hold the camshaft pulley? what is the best way to install the crank and cam shaft seals?

4. are the crank seal and camshaft seals put in dry or coated with oil?

thanks, mike

[billydpowell]

I am going to change the tb myself but need to confirm a few areas:

1. my ls400 is a '95. there is conflicting info floatin around that the timing has to be advanced 50 degrees(FORGET THIS) during the procedure...however, i believe it should be kept at 0 degrees(YES) through out the process. please confirm.

2. how many hours to complete the process on the basis i know enough to be dangerous? 8

3. what are the best tools to remove the crank bolt,(BREAKER BAR & SOCKET, WE BUMPED IT WITH THE STARTER TO BREAK IT LOOSE) crank pulley and hold the camshaft pulley(EASY)? what is the best way to install the crank and cam shaft seals? (TAP THEM IN)

4. are the crank seal and camshaft seals put in dry or coated with oil?DRY

thanks, mike

[mnesbit]

thanks billy

[billydpowell]

good job Larry... Mike, align all your marks BEFORE you take the old belt off, THEN dont hardly move the cams when replacing the seals (the crank wont move) and make sure they are all lined up for the new belt, should look like the photo.

[mnesbit]

re: 95 ls400

at a casual pace i have dismantled the front of the engine. i need to replace the timing belt, cam shaft seals and crankcase seal due to a leak.

i have the crank pulley and cam pullies to remove.

i plan to turn the engine over to remove the crank pulley nut.

here are my questions:

does the engine turnover clockwise?

Once the crank pulley is off how do I get the cam shafts and tb sprocket back to tdc? is there a tdc mark on the crank tb sprocket?

how do i re-torque the nut at 181 lbs.?....how do i stop the crank case from turning when i am apply 181 lbs. of torque when tightening the nut?

re: cam shaft pulley....the pulley nut is on at 80 lbs. how do i stop the cam shafts from turning without buying a special pulley holder.

thanks everybody....Mike

[landar]

re: 95 ls400 at a casual pace i have dismantled the front of the engine. i need to replace the timing belt, cam shaft seals and crankcase seal due to a leak. i have the crank pulley and cam pullies to remove. i plan to turn the engine over to remove the crank pulley nut. here are my questions: does the engine turnover clockwise? Once the crank pulley is off how do I get the cam shafts and tb sprocket back to tdc? is there a tdc mark on the crank tb sprocket? how do i re-torque the nut at 181 lbs.?....how do i stop the crank case from turning when i am apply 181 lbs. of torque when tightening the nut? re: cam shaft pulley....the pulley nut is on at 80 lbs. how do i stop the cam shafts from turning without buying a special pulley holder. thanks everybody....Mike

Ah Mike...I see that you have done a little "forward" thinking. Good for you. Your question about how to retorque the crank pulley to 181 lbft is an important one. Yes, the engine does turnover CW that is why the 'bump' method works. Obviously you take the bolt loose by putting a socket on there and 'bumping' the starter so it stands to reason that you just reverse the procedure to tighten. ^_^ Of course you know I am being sarcastic (who me?) as there is no way to reverse the 'bump'. I think most guys just tighten as much as they can and call it a day. I thought this one over very carefully before doing my TB on a '98 LS and opted for the 'allen key in the flywheel' method. Basically, you wedge a large allen key in the flywheel(flexplate) hole to keep the crank from turning. Works for removal and, most importantly, retorquing to 181 lbft.

Concerning your questions about "how am I going to align the timing marks or remove the cam bolts?"...do those things while the timing belt is still on. You do not want to remove the tensioner or belt until you take care of some basic issues. After that, you can proceed. Like I said, you are thinking ahead so you will be successful. On the time issue, it took me about 16 hours over several days to do mine because I move very methodically (slowly) and I am not a professional mechanic (well I do get paid for my own cars in the form of saving money!). You also want to take digital pictures as you proceed (at least I did) and bag every group of bolts and mark them (I use sandwich baggies and a sharpie). You will be glad that you did.

Here is a tutorial that I did on my '98 that you might find of interest. Our engines are slightly different but not by much. This tutorial is in two sections: Removal and installation. If the links below are 'playing' just click on the picture and then select the "open photo in a new window" to see the comments on each picture.

Enjoy!

removal -&--#62;

install -&--#62;