MMS4MSU Posted April 1, 2010 Share Posted April 1, 2010 Thanks SW, i really appreciate that <_< Still haven't received the call yet, but i'm pretty sure what they're gonna tell me! I'll try to insist that i show the head manager in person too, that might make a bigger impact. I went through this exact scenario about a month ago with my 06 400h and a Lexus Dealership. I took it in with white dust and a copy of another forum's post from 2006 detailing the issue. They told me it was the cabin filter and tried to sell me one for $65. Didn't happen and I purchased an after market filter (because I told them I would replace it the very next day otherwise I would have ordered oem online) but lo-and-behold, there was more dust. I sent them an email stating what the cause was, comparison pictures from mine & 2006 photos in the forum, and told my adviser "Lexus had one more opportunity to fix it." I took it back in and my adviser said 'we think "something got sucked in"<-(what ever that means) but are going to replace the evaporator core because you requested it'. It took them two days, which seemed really fast. When I was driving home and stopped to get gas, I noticed a gash in the knee panel, a huge scratch in the aluminum under the shifter, and the horn did not work. Mannn, was I hot. I immediately called and left messages with my adviser but they were not answered. I sent an email detailing the damage, photos and an iphone video of horn not functioning. That got a call from my adviser and she put the service manager on the phone without me having to ask. He asked "how can I help you"; I paused a good mintue and thought WOW, 'you are going to play dumb with me'. I told him "I am pretty sure Adviser's Name sent you my email and you know the problem." He asked for details and I gave them, but I asked for the documentation detailing ANY damage prior to working on the vehicle. I could tell he did not have any such procedure nor any way to refute the truth. Two days later, I had the tech manager at my house repairing the damage. It is better to email with them to have indisputable records of communication and time lines. I understand phone calls have records but unless you record every conversation then it becomes a he-said/she-said game. I also recorded every conversation with them, in person and on the phone. Just turn on the iphone voice memo and put it in my top pocket. You never know when they are going to slip and admit error or simply treat you poorly; either way a recording is powerful. I even caught my adviser in a lie and it is all recorded. PS - there should a little more residual dust appear but I would guess the sloppy tech did not blow or clean the rest of the system, so you may have a lot. Either way that should have fixed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cduluk Posted April 3, 2010 Author Share Posted April 3, 2010 Well i just returned from the dealer because they had to put my inspection sticker on. I spoke to the assistant service manager and he said they weren't going to do anything about the damage! He said he spoke to the head service manager who said they didn't do the damage. BUT HE NEVER EVEN SAW THE DAMAGE HIMSELF! This head service manager doesn't work on Weekends apparently so i'm going to show him personally first thing Monday morning. I'm SO frustrated right now. These *BLEEP*s raped my car and are denying anything. I am absolutely livid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RX400h Posted April 3, 2010 Share Posted April 3, 2010 I'm afraid it's time for small claims court. It will be a good experience for you; just be sure to send the dealership a formal, certified request for restitution which includes a reasonable deadline for replying. Prepare your defense with plenty of pictures and paper trails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katzjamr Posted April 3, 2010 Share Posted April 3, 2010 I'm afraid it's time for small claims court. It will be a good experience for you; just be sure to send the dealership a formal, certified request for restitution which includes a reasonable deadline for replying. Prepare your defense with plenty of pictures and paper trails. Someone else here suggested the consumer advocate of a local news channel, i just feel that cduluk has been treated with such disrespect that the dealer deserves the bad publicity. the fact that it is a lexus dealer mistreating its customer so blatently should make for a decent news story, also he should write corporate if for no other reason than to get it on the record about this dealership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW03ES Posted April 6, 2010 Share Posted April 6, 2010 Stay on them buddy, remember. Just flat out refuse to accept their response unless it is that they are going to repair all of the damage they did to your vehicle. If it doesn't go well with the manager...let him know that you will be seeing him in court. Again...calmly and rationally...but matter of factly. Does anyone have a breakdown of the proceedure involved in replacing the evaporator core? That would be pretty damning, if the proceedure specifically references removing the parts that were damaged... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cduluk Posted April 7, 2010 Author Share Posted April 7, 2010 UGHHHHH!!! I was supposed to call the dealer Monday morning to see if the head service manager was in so i could meet with him, but i had to stay with a professor Monday morning after class so i couldn't go... So i called this morning (Tuesday) and my service advisor told me he was in! I asked if i could drop by between 11-1pm to see him, and she assured me he would be there. Well, i got there 11:15am and he was at a "general" meeting across the street at Mercedes Benz (apparently all the service managers for every car brand at the auto mall have meetings??). My service advisor assured me that he'd be back "shortly". Well, about 45 minutes later my service advisor came into the waiting room and told me that he called to say he wasn't going to be back until later in the afternoon. Since i had class from 2-6 i couldn't meet with him today. So my service advisor assured me once again that he would be there 11am on Thursday... so i will go back then! This is so frustrating... They've made it clear they want nothing to do with me, it seems like they're trying to tire me out. HA! I'm relentless, especially about my car. If they're trying to wait me out, they've got another thing coming... I'll meet with this head service manager on Thursday and try to be reasonable and calm, and just keep insisting that the parts need to be replaced. I'll see if he shows any intent to "make things right", but if not, i've got another idea... What if, (yes, i know this is probably the "wrong" thing to do... but it's just an idea...) what if the navigation screen, unit and radio were to mysteriously "not work" with no signs of external damage? Would another lexus dealer determine they're faulty and replace them under the car's warranty? :whistles: I'm desperate at this point... I can't see myself having to go through the trouble of filing a lawsuit if i don't have to... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW03ES Posted April 7, 2010 Share Posted April 7, 2010 Thats just going to create more problems...best to just keep working to make them fix the damage... And yes, they are definately trying to wait you out. Here's what you do, sit there in the waiting room...as long as it takes. Strike up conversations with the other customers. "What kind of Lexus do you have?" "Oh an LS? Those are great, what's it in for?" "Oil change? Awesome. Mines here because they completely ruined the interior when they did a warranty repair and I can't seem to get the dealer to stand behind their work. The manager has had me waiting for 3 hours and this is the third day I've tried to talk to them" "I know! Its terrible...I hope they treat your LS with more respect than they treated my RX".' Stroll into the showroom...do the same thing with the people looking at new cars. Be nice about it, don't be loud. "These are great cars aren't they? Mines here because the dealer ruined the interior when they did warranty work and I've been waiting for three hours for the manager to be available to talk to me, I can't seem to get them to want to stand behind their work". "I know! Its terrible...my parents never had that problem with their Mercedes" See how quick that manager shows up. I'm 100% serious too...thats what I would do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cduluk Posted April 7, 2010 Author Share Posted April 7, 2010 Thats just going to create more problems...best to just keep working to make them fix the damage... And yes, they are definately trying to wait you out. Here's what you do, sit there in the waiting room...as long as it takes. Strike up conversations with the other customers. "What kind of Lexus do you have?" "Oh an LS? Those are great, what's it in for?" "Oil change? Awesome. Mines here because they completely ruined the interior when they did a warranty repair and I can't seem to get the dealer to stand behind their work. The manager has had me waiting for 3 hours and this is the third day I've tried to talk to them" "I know! Its terrible...I hope they treat your LS with more respect than they treated my RX".' Stroll into the showroom...do the same thing with the people looking at new cars. Be nice about it, don't be loud. "These are great cars aren't they? Mines here because the dealer ruined the interior when they did warranty work and I've been waiting for three hours for the manager to be available to talk to me, I can't seem to get them to want to stand behind their work". "I know! Its terrible...my parents never had that problem with their Mercedes" See how quick that manager shows up. I'm 100% serious too...thats what I would do. ah! i never thought about talking to other customers :whistles: I like that idea! There's always a ton of people waiting for their cars to finish, and it's right near the doors to the service bay too. The service people are constantly walking in and out, hopefully one of them hears me :D I wish really i was older, i bet my age has a lot to do with this. My parents don't want to deal with it, they told me to just "leave it alone, it's only a car"... YEAH OK. But i'll keep on the dealer and hold my ground. All i've got is time, and hopefully with a little i can persuade them into fixing what they screwed up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RX400h Posted April 7, 2010 Share Posted April 7, 2010 Remember, you would not need to go through a full-blown lawsuit. Filing a small claims suit is much easier and does not involve any lawyers. I went through this type of scenario a while back. The defendants (shop owner and his mechanic) took a look at my "evidence book" of pictures, diagrams and testimonials and they quickly settled out-of-court. Treat it like a school project, prepare well, and you will win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW03ES Posted April 7, 2010 Share Posted April 7, 2010 I wish really i was older, i bet my age has a lot to do with this. Buddy...I have fought against that my entire adult life. Even now that I'm almost 30 I try hard not to have to admit to people how old I am...you can see that instant change in their face when they find out how young I am (they are always shocked because I seem so much older) and they never seem to look at me the same way again. A lot of it is jealousy. You have what they have...or more and you have your youth. They figure that you must somehow have been handed what you have or that somehow your accomplishments aren't completely your own because you're younger. It sucks...get used to it. You've just got to stay firm. Like RX400h said you don't need to file a lawsuit. You simply need to appear before a judge, and I think with your pictures and with a breakdown of the procedure involved in replacing the evaporator coil that shows they specifically remove those specific components that are damaged...I don't see how a judge could not award you the money to purchase the parts to replace...and you can replace them yourself...and the money to have the vinyl components repaired. I showed my wife, who doesn't care at all about cars or the condition of her car, your pictures and she immediately noticed the damage and her exact words were "Thats just unacceptable". I don't see how a judge would look at it any differently. It will be fun. Seriously, I should have been a lawyer because I would ride those SOBs like a donkey until they begged for death ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cduluk Posted April 7, 2010 Author Share Posted April 7, 2010 My only worry about filing a lawsuit against the dealer is the fact that i don't have 100% proof. The only pictures i have of my car that show the damaged areas were taken several months ago. I "could" lie and say i took them more recently, but in the background there are trees with green leaves and such, a definite indicator that they're not recent... AND, the limit for small claims here in RI is $2500. That won't even cover the navigation unit! http://www.courts.ri.gov/district/rightsinsmallclaims.htm So i don't have many options... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katzjamr Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 i like the talk to the customers in the showroom idea at least until they stop ignoring you, however the consumer affairs dept of a tv station can be a big help also if they decide to take this on. no dealership wants this publicity, also with the runaround you are getting i would go straight to the dealer owner, i find myself getting upset with the lack of respect they have shown you and its time to find someone in that company who actually cares. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cduluk Posted April 8, 2010 Author Share Posted April 8, 2010 i like the talk to the customers in the showroom idea at least until they stop ignoring you, however the consumer affairs dept of a tv station can be a big help also if they decide to take this on. no dealership wants this publicity, also with the runaround you are getting i would go straight to the dealer owner, i find myself getting upset with the lack of respect they have shown you and its time to find someone in that company who actually cares. Yeah, i can try threatening going to a local News station with this guy tomorrow... I would go speak with the president of the dealership, but i bet it's even harder to meet with him. It seems there are so many "men behind the curtain" people running this place that never come to work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katzjamr Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 i know its old school but you need to send a well crafted letter to the owner of the dealership and appeal to any sense of customer service, and pride in his dealership this person has left. its unlikely he will see you in person. as was mentioned earlier the letter is part of a paper trail, and you can include your pictures (before and after) and make your case. another reason to contact the owner is to point out that he still employs the idiot that ruined your vehicle and this person is going to do it again to another car, if he hasnt already, and is a liability to the dealership and the owner. remember i have a customer who has written different ceo's nine times with the same letter addressing problems with their products and she has had either full replacement, including labor provided by the ceo's or other satisfaction povided by just writing. the one case i personally was involved in she recieved $4,000 in new carpet and labor from the ceo of a major floorcovering manufacturer even after an inspector had reported that her problem was not covered under warranty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW03ES Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 Threatening to call news authorities and threatening lawsuits isn't going to help, those kinds of things you have to actually do to get noticed, people always threaten that kind of thing and never do it. I agree about the letter, I'll even write it for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cduluk Posted April 8, 2010 Author Share Posted April 8, 2010 Well i have some good news :) I met with the head of the service department today. My service advisor brought me to his "office" and we were introduced. I explained everything that had happened and i showed him the damage in the car. At first he tried to say that "he didn't do this" but i used a lot of reason. I brought up how these parts were removed during the process, and that there was no other way these injuries could have occurred. I was very calm, but still persistent. He just kept feeling all the damaged areas with his fingers not saying very much. I told him how i take a lot of pride in the car and how i just can't live with the damage. I mentioned how i have family who has their services here, and how i have always thought Lexus was about "quality" and that this damage went against that. I kept saying that i understood how accidents happen, but that when they happen the problems need to be fixed. He asked me what i wanted, and i asked him what he thought was reasonable. I told him that my main concern was with the nav screen and radio and nav surrounds, and that these small injuries could lead to larger ones down the road (especially about the scratch in the touch-screen). I said that i felt bad about the situation, but that i just didn't find it acceptable. I mentioned that they could try to "repair" the vinyl on the side (which i know isn't possible), basically i tried to act sincere and not just like an @ss. He told me that he understood how i felt and that he would "see if he could find the parts" and what not, and that he'd get back to me. Not really sure what this means though... I know this isn't a definite "yes" but it's certainly a step in the right direction... He was very kind and i really appreciated that, it was nice to finally hear someone at the dealership be sympathetic with me about this. So i guess i will wait for another phone call! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauljcl Posted April 9, 2010 Share Posted April 9, 2010 I cross my fingers for you (though not holding my breath). Don't give up getting ALL damage repaired. Feeling for you. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW03ES Posted April 9, 2010 Share Posted April 9, 2010 Yeah keep us posted. Honestly though I bet those vinyl areas can be repaired... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cduluk Posted April 12, 2010 Author Share Posted April 12, 2010 Well it's Monday and i haven't received a call back yet. I'll call tomorrow to see what the hold up is... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW03ES Posted April 13, 2010 Share Posted April 13, 2010 I'd call him today and leave a message for tomorrow... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cduluk Posted April 14, 2010 Author Share Posted April 14, 2010 I called my service advisor this morning and asked if she could tell the "head service manager" to call me back like he said he would. A few hours later my service advisor called me back and said "whatever it is you discussed with him last week is OK" and that I would need to drop my car off for a few days. I asked why it would take a few days and she said it takes time to order parts and what not... I wanted to argue and say they should order the parts NOW and put them in on one day, but I opted not to make a big deal... Bottom line, I'm dropping it off Monday and it should be done in a couple of days". So that's good! Hopefully they don't screw anything else up installing the new parts... Ill definitly take some detailed pictures before I drop it off this time though ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW03ES Posted April 14, 2010 Share Posted April 14, 2010 Good...I hope it works out for you...keep us posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cduluk Posted April 22, 2010 Author Share Posted April 22, 2010 Well the problems continue... Last week when I met with the service manager to show him the damage, he was very sympathetic and told me "he would look for the parts" and make everything right. I made an appointment with my service advisor to drop the car of Monday (3 days ago) so they could replace the parts. My service advisor told me it would take about a day and that she'd call me when it was done. Well, its now Thursay and I haven't received a call. So I called my service manager to see what's up. She told me that the parts had not arrived, and that she didn't know when they would be in. She told me that it might not be done till NEXT WEEK! I asked if I could pick the car up tonight and come back when the parts were in, but she told me the parts were already removed... But none of this sounded right to me... I'm pretty sure parts didn't take more than a day to arrive after being ordered, so I called the parts department. I asked them how long it would take for these such parts to arrive after being ordered, and he told me he had the radio in the back, and to order the nav screen and unit, if I ordered before 1:30 today they'd be here tomorrow! (As I suspected). So I told him my situation, gave my info and he looked it up for me. He told me there was NO record of the service department ordering any parts, and he assured me they would HAVE to go through them to get new parts. So I called my service advisor back to explain to her my findings, and she seemed very confused. She told me she'd speak to the service manager and tell him to call me. 10 minutes later he called me back. He told me that he wasn't getting NEW parts, but that he's looking for another car to SWAP the parts! I told him this was unacceptable and he said it was the best he could do. He also told me that next time I shouldn't call my service advisor but him directly. Apparently he doesn't want anyone to know what going on. I told him my fear or getting used parts, but he assured me he'd only get them from a "2008 or 2009 Rx400h". I responded informing him that there is NO SUCH THING as a 2009 Rx400h (2008 was the last production year) but he insisted I was wrong... ok watever. He told me he found an 06 Rx400h but "for some reason" the radio and nav screen weren't right"... DUH! The nav screen was changed for the 07 model year, and so was the radio with the WMA format.... He said he's still "looking" for a doner car through the used car department... and that he'll call me back when he finds them. I asked why the parts were already removed from my car (which seemed stupid) and he told he they didn't even touch it... NICE OF THEM TO TELL ME! So I'm picking it up tomorrow, and he's supposed to call me nex week when he finds parts... This sucks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW03ES Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 What a mess... The used parts in and of themselves don't bother me, as long as they are in like new condition and they will be covered by your warranty. It makes sense for you to only contact him also so everything is going through one source. The fact that they are !Removed! around without having you in a loaner is really infuriating. I wouldn't pick the car up personally...I would tell them you demand a loaner, or for them to rent you a car from an outside source and leave your car over there until its fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cduluk Posted April 22, 2010 Author Share Posted April 22, 2010 What a mess... The used parts in and of themselves don't bother me, as long as they are in like new condition and they will be covered by your warranty. It makes sense for you to only contact him also so everything is going through one source. The fact that they are !Removed! around without having you in a loaner is really infuriating. I wouldn't pick the car up personally...I would tell them you demand a loaner, or for them to rent you a car from an outside source and leave your car over there until its fixed. Oh trust me, i'd love to have a loaner, but since i'm only 21 they won't give me one. And yes my parents could get the loaner, but i still couldn't drive it... I don't mind the "used parts" idea just as long as they're in prestine condition. But honestly, what are the odds of finding one in perfect condition? He could find these parts from any 07-09 Rx350/400h w/o mark lev. I don't believe he's gonna find parts from an 07 without ANY damage, whether it be scratches or just dust in the LCD or whatever... But i'll see what he comes up with and take things from there. So i guess what he's gonna do is just swap the damaged parts with parts from another RX before it goes to sale, hoping the buyers don't notice it. IMO the average person wouldn't care as much as i do, so it might work. I did share with him my concern about having older parts installed, asking what would happen if they suddenly died a month down the road- and he assured me if that happens that he'd "good will" it and give me a NEW one. He also said since my parts are damaged he couldn't do that though... not sure what this really means though. I just don't like the idea of having OLDER parts installed. It just doesn't seem right to me. THEY were the ones who defected the original ones, therefore they should replace them with parts of at least the same age or newer. Am i just expecting too much?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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