Need Information On How To Flush Transmission

[LexusPete]

I need a play-by-play on how to do a ATF flush. After hearing the horror stories of people getting the shaft from "Jiffy Lube" and other Lube shops, I have decided to take on this task myself. Some mechanics I spoke with, do not recommend the flushing techniques used at these lube shops.

Anyway, if anyone out there wishes to share the knowledge, please post it on this post :) Your help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

P.S. Some added illustrations/diagrams/pictures would be nice, but beggars can't be chosers. :)

Pete

[99lsguy]

I would just do a pan drain for the first go around. Gets your feet wet and its easy but vital.

A 5 gal plastic bucket cut off around 6- 8" high will hold all and you can slide it under car without having to lift the vehicle. Easy :D

Just drain trans. pan - probably 2-3 quarts. Get new crush washer & replace plug @ 15 ft. lbs.

Using toyota t-IV fluid; Add about 3/4 - 1 quart less on the initial fill up back thru the trans dipstick tube.

Start up and run till warm - at least 2 min.

Check the plug underneath at this time for any leaks

Check level with dipstick. if it's just touching the cold (low) end then

add only 4 ounces. If its anywhere in the HOT area - don't add any yet. Your should only add about 2 oz. at a time till you get a feel for the ratio of the indicator stick.

Take a drive and let it warm up and recheck level.

It will expand as it gets hot - so keep and eye on it.

I have all of this on video, unfortunately, there's a problem with my capture software - so sorry.

It's easy to do as long as you carefully add small amounts of T-IV ATF :D

You've just replaced 30% of your tranny with clean, fresh fluid. Do it again next week and your up to 50%!!!

[99lsguy]

btw,

run your car thru the gears a couple of times while its initially warming up again.

You DO leave the car in park and idling while you check the ATF level.

And, of course, your car should be pretty much level.

Did you ever do the brake flush?

How do you feel about your lexus now?

[LexusPete]

99LsGuy,

thanks for the help ;) Got a couple questions. Is Dextron III an acceptable substitute for Type-VI? And, is there any other way to drain more than 30%?

Pete

P.S. The LS does have some shortcomings, but I'm working through it. :)

[99lsguy]

Pete,

Here's link to get all the detail you want about the true tranny flush:

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread...15&pagenumber=1

Check your manual for the dex III question - it will tell you. That being said, I called the dealer to find out what they use - which was always T-IV!! Even in the older LS's they use T=IV.

It is superior ATF - has synthetic additives - why not use it? You could buy a case from Toyota for a lot less than Lexus.

99

[monarch]

Got a couple questions. Is Dextron III an acceptable substitute for Type-VI? And, is there any other way to drain more than 30%?

This forum is full of owner horror stories about failed transmissions, power steering systems and blown engiine head gaskets when the cars are only 75-150K miles old. If you don't want horrible things like this to happen to you then an inexpensive solution is to simply keep all the fluids and lubes in your car in reasonably clean / fresh condition and use only factory original fluids and lubes.

The fluids and lubes need not be totally replaced, just partially renewed periodically.

So like when the owners manual says use Type T-IV only, don't question it. When the manual says use DOT 3 brake fluid, don't put in a DOT 4 approved fluid. When the manual says use genuine Toyota antifreeze and distilled water don't put in Prestone Green or Havoline Extended Life. When the manual says use a Dexron II or III automatic transmission fluid in the power steering system, don't put in a product labeled just power steering fluid. You can further reduce your risks of mechanical problems by using factory original fluids, lubes and filters These can be purchased inexpensively at Toyota dealers; e.g. genuine Toyota Type T-IV fluid, genuine Toyota Dexron II & III fluid, genuine Toyota brake fluid and genuine Toyota antifreeze.

All this is easier said than done because an owner is constantly being pulled and lured by marketing interests into using specialty lubes, fluids and filters and doing more complicated, expensive and risky servicing procedures like "total fluid replacements" "fluid flushes" etc. Worse, if you follow their advice and end up with mechanical problems and failures at between 75-150K miles, then they will explain them away with the comments like "they all do that" "that's the maximum life you can expect."

[VMF]

this is a partia drain, not a flush. if you want a complete flush then just get some toyota atf fluid and go to the strauss or any other store and ask them to use your oil in the machine. you disconnect 2 hoses from the radiator and connect them to the special machine that controls the temp opf new fluid. when tranny fluyid reaches certain temp in the tranny the valve will open and old fluid will go into machine while new warmed fluid will be pumped into the tranny.

[SRK]

This forum is full of owner horror stories about failed transmissions, power steering systems and blown engiine head gaskets when the cars are only 75-150K miles old.

When the manual says use DOT 3 brake fluid, don't put in a DOT 4 approved fluid.

I am not aware that this forum is "full" of horror stories of this type. It seems to me that not one person has confirmed a blown head gasket, and the only trans problem was one that was abused by lack of service, not incorrect service.

As to using DOT 4 in place of DOT 3, that is perfectly acceptable, and so is the other way round, simply because the only difference is boiling point, and the boiling point of either is sufficient for our cars.

[monarch]

As to using DOT 4 in place of DOT 3, that is perfectly acceptable,

The brake fluid cap on every late model Lexus and Toyota says "use DOT 3 fluid only" and the official 1997 Toyota Technician Brake Systems training manual, Course 552 says: "Toyota recommends the exclusive use of Polyglycol DOT 3 brake fluid in all it's products."

Also, on the bottles of genuine Toyota Brake Fluid it says: "Genuine Toyota Brake Fluid is a Super Heavy Duty Hi -temp brake fluid specially forumulated by Toyota engineers to give superior performance in all Toyota brake systems where DOT 3 brake fluid is recommended."

[witam]

This is a procedure that is popular on an Acura Legend forum to flush out your tranny.

4x Tranny Flush by Gil

Total stuff needed:

(1) Bottle of smart blend ( Black Bottle)

(I used Lube Guard from NAPA for $11.00)

(4) quarts of "F" type Trans fluid

(7) quarts of Dextron fluid

(4) quarts of Genuine Honda fluid

Time to play with your car.......

1. Drain the fluid and add 3.5 quarts of "F" type fluid. F-fluid (ATF) is what is used in Ford transmissions. It has a very high detergent base to it that is designed to clean the internal parts and to break down varnish build up.

2. Drive the car around for several miles and then drain it again . I do not recommend that you leave the F-type fluid in the car for an

extended time.

3. Now having drained the fluid refill the unit with 3.5 qt's of

Dextron II or III and again drive the car around for a few miles

working the Dextron in. While you are doing this what you are

actually doing is diluting the F-type fluid and flushing the dirty fluid

out of the converter at the same time.

4. Return to the driveway and dump the fluid again and

5. repeat the process again. (Steps 3-4)

6. Now , having returned once again , you have drained one last

time. At this point what little F-type fluid that was left has been

drastically diluted and the majority of what you have left is Dextron.

7. Now fill the tranny up with Genuine Honda ATF . Honda fluid has

a high silicone base to it and that is what will keep your tranny

shifting smooth. You now have 3.5 quarts of Honda fluid mixed in

with about 5qts of Dextron mixed with .5 qts of F type fluid (Mix) .

Not enough to hurt a thing. Now to even things out and bring us all

back to Basic Honda fluid , get a bottle of a product called "Smart

Blend" It's made by a company called "Life Products" Be sure to

get the Black bottle as it is specially designed to convert Dextron

over to Honda fluid, this is a product that we endorse, and use it in

all our transmissions through out the building process. If you can't

find it then try Lube Guard , and again use the Black bottle. Both

products have red bottles and I thin also a Blue one too?

8. Pour one full bottle of Smart Blend into the tranny and you're set. Smart blend reduces operating temps as well as is a friction modifier that will reduce clutch pack chatter as well as help with converter lock up. Now the reason you start with the F type fluid is to clean . Then you use Dextron to dilute the F-type (Ford) and besides to dump that much Honda fluid just to flush would be a

sin, not to mention costly as all get up.

[acf]

Just drain trans. pan - probably 2-3 quarts. Get new crush washer & replace plug @ 15 ft. lbs.

Ok 99, just the fact that I have no idea what this means should tell you how much of a DIYer I am. Any way you can actually dumb down your instructions even more? :whistles:

:D

I don't even know where to look for the pan.

Also, since nothing of this sort has been done to my ride for 35K miles, do you suggest just partial flushes or the whole shebang? I'd like to do what I can myself but its gotta be pretty easy. I also live in a condo with very little room to work on my cars. :(

[99lsguy]

I don't even know where to look for the pan.

Also, since nothing of this sort has been done to my ride for 35K miles, do you suggest just partial flushes or the whole shebang? I'd like to do what I can myself but its gotta be pretty easy. I also live in a condo with very little room to work on my cars. :(

acf,

I'm on it....will get some pics posted..and step by step methodology..no problem.

It's really the perfect project to start your DIY future on...

99

[acf]

Thanks bro!

[ayan]

Anyone have an opinion on using Amsoil synthetic ATF instead of the Toyota T-IV?

[SRK]

I can't believe the myth and dogma that is perpetuated about Type F auto trans fluid. It is not more "detergent", it has a different friction modifier for use in Ford designed clutch packs and their particular organic lining material. The fact that Ford made Type F OBSOLETE in their vehicles in 1977 doesn't seem to matter to anyone at all. It is a true dinosaur oil in every sense. Putting that fluid in any modern vehicle makes no sense at all.

Toyota calls for their Type IV fluid, and thats what we should use.

Amsoil is for people who couldn't qualify to be Moonies, or something. Only Zealots need apply.

[monarch]

As to using DOT 4 in place of DOT 3, that is perfectly acceptable, and so is the other way round, simply because the only difference is boiling point, and the boiling point of either is sufficient for our cars.

Lexus warns against using anything but DOT 3 brake fluid: http://www.saber.net/~monarch/brakefluid.jpg

So I believe it is reasonable to assume the Lexus engineers know the chemistry of DOT 4 fluid is different than DOT 3 fluid and different in a way that is detrimental to Lexus brake systems.

[ayan]

I don't understand SRK's animosity towards Amsoil? I first heard of the Amsoil name on this very forum, and decided to do more research and read up more on the product. The fact that there's so many links to Amsoil on this forum suggested to me that Amsoil was a great product. My research and further readings on Amsoil suggest that it IS a great product, to the point that I'm willing to try out the stuff. Now that I hear some dissention, I'm starting to second-guess myself on Amsoil.

What gives? Is the truth out there?

[SRK]

Monarch I see you are attempting to show something. Using DOT 4 brake fluid to replace DOT 3 is acceptable because those that make the stuff stipulate that they are fully compatible. One fluid has a higher boiling point. Either can be used to top off a system, but the characteristics of the fluid will be a combination of the two used. DOT 5 is not compatible, and the warnings about that are very clear and there can be no mis-understanding them. It is like using Dexron III fluid in a car built in the days of Dexron II - the new fluid is compatible with the one it replaces.

As to the Amsoil comment, I was perhaps a bit harsh, but I cruise a great many boards, and the Amsoil folks (who I am sure are fine people) tend to jump on any discussion of lubricants quite avidly, and claim many things, most of all extended drain intervals, and special oil filters. No manufacturer supports that practice with their engines. I also tend to trust the major refiners, like Mobil, and their claims and recommendations for lubricants. Consequently I use Mobil 1 synthetic, like many others on this board. I am sure there are lots of fine synthetics, but I am going to stick with the major brands.

I am convinced that Toyota Type IV trans fluid is best because it is at least semi-synthetic, and has properties matched to the shift characteristics that Toyota desires their transmissions to display. Dexron/Mercon probably won't hurt the trans in our cars, but the shift performance will be different. To achieve the shift feel that Lexus designed in, use their fluid. This is why I find the continued "belief" in Type F fluid so interesting. Ford has not built a trans that requires that fluid since 1977 or so, and that is what, 27 year? That is a very long in automotive technology. Time to move on. An engine oil made in 1977 would be "SE" service rating, and was rendered obsolete in 1980 by the "SF" rating by the API. Presently, we are in the "SL" rating. That's a big difference in engine oil performance. I know of no one who goes looking for SE oil for their old car - they just use the modern stuff.

[99lsguy]

I don't understand SRK's animosity towards Amsoil? I first heard of the Amsoil name on this very forum, and decided to do more research and read up more on the product. The fact that there's so many links to Amsoil on this forum suggested to me that Amsoil was a great product. My research and further readings on Amsoil suggest that it IS a great product, to the point that I'm willing to try out the stuff. Now that I hear some dissention, I'm starting to second-guess myself on Amsoil.

What gives? Is the truth out there?

I will tell you about my experience with Amsoil....

purchased off lease 99 LS in July 03 @ 53K

Did immediate Dino Oil/filter change.

Switched to Amsoil XL-7500 5-30 @ 55K

Moved to Orig. Amsoil 5-30 @ 59K

Currently @ 61,600 miles

(Yes - new Amsoil oil filter with each Synthetic change!)

Level was set to dead perfect on dipstick on all oil changes.......it has never moved off of it at any point.

My engine was quiet before the Amsoil, now it IS QUIETER :D

The best part...when I bought the car, the dipstick had a "light oil film" all the way up the stick...above where you check the oil level. (The car had been service regularly @ 5k dino oil intervals.) It wouldn't wipe off with a rag. Within 500 miles or so on the first Amsoil change, the residue loosened and was easily wiped off with a rag during level checks.

I examined the valve caps/springs, etc...thru the Oil Cap hole as best I could with a flashlight before I bought the car- they looked very clean then and continue to be so. Also, you may have a small "shelf" just inside the Oil Filler hole - this helps to prevent flying oil up against the oil cap. This "shelf" also had heavy amount of oil residue on it...and is now CLEAN

All this tells me my engine is quieter, cleaner, healthier than ever before !!!

Amsoil claims it is "technically" superior to Mobil 1 in almost all those categories. But Mobil One is a great oil too, so someday I may use Mobil one; because I'll always change my oil within 5K miles. Dino Oils are good also; its just that synthetics are a little better.

99

[ayan]

Hey 99lsguy,

Have you also switched your transmission fluid with Amsoil synthetic ATF as well? or are you sticking with the Toyota T-IV? Thanks. Anyone else out there currently using Amsoil for their tranny fluid?

[monarch]

Monarch I see you are attempting to show something. Using DOT 4 brake fluid to replace DOT 3 is acceptable because those that make the stuff stipulate that they are fully compatible. One fluid has a higher boiling point. Either can be used to top off a system, but the characteristics of the fluid will be a combination of the two used.

SRK, so far you have not explained why Toyota / Lexus / Nissan / Chrysler and some other automakers do not want DOT 4 brake fluids used in their braking systems, except in an emergency situation.

So it seems obvious to me there are some positive and negative characteristics of DOT 3 vs DOT 4 fluids and that on balance, the factory engineers feel the benefits of DOT 3 fluids outweigh the negatives. And the negatives of DOT 4 fluids outweight the benefits.

Lexus owners who use DOT 4 fluids are therefore taking a risk of unknown proportions of degrading brake and clutch system performance, reliability or durability. Some owners think it's exciting, cool and manly to take risks. Other owners value peace of mind.

[99lsguy]

Hey 99lsguy,

Have you also switched your transmission fluid with Amsoil synthetic ATF as well?  or are you sticking with the Toyota T-IV?  Thanks.  Anyone else out there currently using Amsoil for their tranny fluid?

ayan,

I still use Toyota T-iv in the tranny. I've got to since I bought a case of the stuff when I first got the LS

I've done 3 pan drains over my first 7k miles of ownership on the tranny to make sure its up to shape! I'll probably stick with the T-IV - I've got 6 quarts left - for a while.

I do use Amsoil 80-90W gear oil in the Diffy :D

I'm pretty sure that "ebridges" uses Amsoil in the Tranny and throughout his LS...

99

[SRK]

So it seems obvious to me there are some positive and negative characteristics of DOT 3 vs DOT 4 fluids and that on balance, the factory engineers feel the benefits of DOT 3 fluids outweigh the negatives. And the negatives of DOT 4 fluids outweight the benefits.

Lexus owners who use DOT 4 fluids are therefore taking a risk of unknown proportions of degrading brake and clutch system performance, reliability or durability. Some owners think it's exciting, cool and manly to take risks. Other owners value peace of mind.

You seem to think that to use DOT 4 is inviting disaster, or that there is something wrong with it. Name one disadvantage of DOT 4 would you? Use science and technology and the facts in your answer. Discard the emotion.

"Exciting cool and manly to take risks" Really? With brake fluid? Ridiculous.

I have been repairing cars for longer than you have been alive, no doubt. In any event, I grow tired of discussing this topic with you. Go forth, and do as you wish, as will I.

[monarch]

Name one disadvantage of DOT 4 would you? Use science and technology and the facts in your answer.

I never claimed to know what the disadvantages of DOT 4 fluids are as compared to DOT 3 fluids. I am not a factory engineer so am not privy to the negative information they appear to have about DOT 4 fluid that prevents them from recommending it.

Sorry if I was out of line when I said "some owners think it's exciting, cool and manly to take risks"

[with non-factory approved fluids and lubes]. Can you provide some other explanation as to why so many owners (and the mechanics who service their cars) are so unwilling to use the factory original fluids, filters and lubes? It can't be because of price alone because in many cases the price difference is negligible.

[tansupplyman]

Can't help but think: if engineering, metallurgy, and all the high education stuff(that I graduated from in 1964--I guess obsolete now!!--) is subjective to the fluid properties of stuff (antifreeze, transmission fluid, engine oil, etc.) then all this learning was for naught.

Guess we should have kept babbitt bearings!!?????

Who would think that all that would dictate what people thought (or think) now!!????

Should have gone into the lub(or liquid) business when I graduated, but didn't.