A Few Questions From A New Lexus Ls430 Owner

[UCF3]

$230 is unbelievable!  We should start compaining to Lexus whenever dealers try to screw us.  Does Lexus have a consumer complaints department?

Both Lexus and Lexus dealers have a consumer complaint department.

$230! :o Ouch. This is the reason why I'm openning my own shop.

91LS400150k:

The gasket they are charging $2.31 on is an oil filter gasket. It's not absolutely required, but using it is going to help excessive preventative maintenance. As for a source, has anybody tried asking Pepboys or one of the parts distributor about these gaskets? they must be selling these gaskets cheaper than the manufacturers.

Not that I want to promote Walmart, but they also sell Mobil 1 Synthetic for about $30. Of course, be prepared to drop your car off, or bring a very thick book.

[monarch]

Monarch, Didn't you say in a different post that you had a toyota with 400K+ miles? What model / year is it and did you buy it new?

Yes a '92 4 cyl Toyota pickup with 436K miles and still running like new with like new engine compression. Engine burns only 2500 miles per quart of oil. I used Mobil 1 10W-30 and changed it every 5000 miles. I used genuine Toyota everything else (filters, spark plugs, antifreeze, brake fluid oxygen sensors, etc).

Now before you conclude Mobil 1 is responsible for these results consider this: I came to know another 4 cyl truck owner with 477K miles. His engine is also still in excellent condition and he also

used genuine Toyota everything with one exception: He used Chevron dino oil and changed it every 5000 miles. So we both now know dino oil is capable of doing an outstanding job preventing engine wear in a Toyota engine - just like the Toyota engineers have always told us - at least in moderate climates like Tennesee and California.

[99lsguy]

Now before you conclude Mobil 1 is responsible for these results consider this:  I came to know another 4 cyl truck owner with 477K miles.  His engine is also still in excellent condition and he also

used genuine Toyota everything with one exception: He used Chevron dino oil and changed it every 5000 miles.  So we both now know dino oil is capable of doing an outstanding job preventing engine wear in a Toyota engine - just like the Toyota engineers have always told us - at least in moderate climates like Tennesee and California.

A good testament that long trips with well maintained engines are not a strain at all. It probably has more to do with the "NUMBER OF STARTS' per day on the vehicle than the miles you drive.

At least synthetic will help deliver quicker protection in cold weather; and higher temp tolerances in summer with no viscosity breakdown. Hopefully, in the long haul, this will increase engine life even more that dino oil.......

[SW03ES]

Oh, I called another Lexus dealer that quoted me $160 for the "mini service" and Toyota quoted me $98 so I figured the 60 bucks was worth the loaner...

I called my dealer, and my business was only worth $20 to them (they offered $200) so they can go screw

[ECUPirate]

I was talking to a coworker earlier who has a Mercedes (1999 E430?)... the dealer requires her to have them do all of the service or risk voiding her warranty. They charge $500 for an oil change. Apparently, they check 'other things' while they are servicing the car, so the price is somehow justified. Also, the oil only needs to be changed at 10K intervals. Whoopie.

And I won't even let Jiffy Lube change my Chrysler's oil for $30 because I feel that's too much to pay. Geez.

[daffy]

Hello All,

          I am excited about being able to exchange valuable info with longtime Lexus owners. I have a few questions about my just purchased preowned 2002 LS 430.

          The car has 16,000 miles and drives great. I can see myself holding on to the car for 6-8 years.  I dont want to compromise the car's performance and life by trying to skimp out on its maintenance etc. 

So my first question is:

  Does the car absolutely require premium gasoline?

  Is there a big difference in performance and life of the engine if I continue to use synthetic oil over the conventional.  Reason I ask, because i normally pay $18 for a conv. oil change, today I tried Jiffy lube because of time issues and wanted to get out right away. Anyways they charge $30 but I was upselled to the super duper synthetic Mobil Oil. (you know the guy really sold the upgrade) So I paid $60 and went with the synthetic. My thought was if after researching if it's better great. I made a good choice if not that will be my last time using the synthetic. So what are your opinions.

      How often would you change your oil for conv. and synthetic? ( I was told synthetic can go for 5k while conv. is good for 3k.

                                      Thanks in advance. 

BTW The Lexus dealer wanted $105 and I bet that's for a conv. oil change.

←

Hi fitforlifechris,

Here you have one of the nicest car around and one of the longest lasting as well, if maintained. I just wanted to say, I have a 1991 Ls400 with close to 400,000kms and just had a compression done on it. My minimum compression reading was 190lbs. The manual says 178psi or better and 142psi minimum. I've use synthetic oil since I got the car at 186,000 kms. I even went a little extreme on the oil changes. I installed a Amsoil by-pass filter and change it once a year and the engine oil filter twice a year and change the oil (Amsoil only) every 20,000 miles. Pretty good results so far! (by the way I am not a Amsoil dealer) I will keep doing this to see how long this car is going to last. I figure at least 400,000 to 500,000 miles. Just wanted to put in my 2-cents worth. :D And always use premium gas, it's not a cheap car!!

Daffy (my car is still running great!)

[Lexusfreak]

Hello All,

          I am excited about being able to exchange valuable info with longtime Lexus owners. I have a few questions about my just purchased preowned 2002 LS 430.

          The car has 16,000 miles and drives great. I can see myself holding on to the car for 6-8 years.  I dont want to compromise the car's performance and life by trying to skimp out on its maintenance etc. 

So my first question is:

  Does the car absolutely require premium gasoline?

  Is there a big difference in performance and life of the engine if I continue to use synthetic oil over the conventional.  Reason I ask, because i normally pay $18 for a conv. oil change, today I tried Jiffy lube because of time issues and wanted to get out right away. Anyways they charge $30 but I was upselled to the super duper synthetic Mobil Oil. (you know the guy really sold the upgrade) So I paid $60 and went with the synthetic. My thought was if after researching if it's better great. I made a good choice if not that will be my last time using the synthetic. So what are your opinions.

    How often would you change your oil for conv. and synthetic? ( I was told synthetic can go for 5k while conv. is good for 3k.

                                      Thanks in advance. 

BTW The Lexus dealer wanted $105 and I bet that's for a conv. oil change.

←

Buy your own synthetic oil (I use Mobil 1 5W 30 myself & get it at Walmart) & oil filter. Find a good, reliable independent mechanic to do all your 'regular' maintenance & it will cost you only about half what the dealers charge. My synthetic oil change cost's about $48 for everything including parts & labour. Or do it yourself & save the bills for the oil & filter to save even more $$$. B)

[kevin1533]

chris, thats alot of miles. And i thought my dads infinity qx4 with 200k miles was legendary for holding up...

[KKKMMM]

Now that is a lot of brass air fittings there is just about every type

of air fitting that you could want. Wholesale prices too. I guess these could be used as small water pipe fitting also. I

used some of the parts to make my babington wvo bu

:D

[curiousB]

I really wonder how important premium gas is. Most of the comments I read are conjecture and warm feelings. “My Lexus deserves nothing less” is hardly a scientific argument. What evidence is there that premium is any better for the engine?

Modern computerized engine controls adjust and optimize air/fuel/spark each cycle. These engines are already very finely tuned. Sure premium fuel has slightly more energy available but does it translate to better MPG? Maybe a bit but the true test would be $/mile that would balance out the extra cost of premium over standard gas. Has anyone done a clean A/B test and computed the $/mile of each?

I’ve run regular for >1 year in a 2004 LS430 with no perceptible difference in performance. Last time I checked the engine was still under my hood.

[Budhah]

I really wonder how important premium gas is. Most of the comments I read are conjecture and warm feelings. “My Lexus deserves nothing less” is hardly a scientific argument. What evidence is there that premium is any better for the engine?

Modern computerized engine controls adjust and optimize air/fuel/spark each cycle. These engines are already very finely tuned. Sure premium fuel has slightly more energy available but does it translate to better MPG? Maybe a bit but the true test would be $/mile that would balance out the extra cost of premium over standard gas. Has anyone done a clean A/B test and computed the $/mile of each?

I’ve run regular for >1 year in a 2004 LS430 with no perceptible difference in performance. Last time I checked the engine was still under my hood.

What the heck guys, You driving one of the best cars in America, You are not driving a Chevy or Ford.. Why not take care of it. How many of you take "BAYER" aspirin for you and family, or do you use the cheaper "WalMart" brand on your loved ones??

Quit being a "cheap Charlie" and take care of your ride...

[SW03ES]

What the heck guys, You driving one of the best cars in America, You are not driving a Chevy or Ford.. Why not take care of it. How many of you take "BAYER" aspirin for you and family, or do you use the cheaper "WalMart" brand on your loved ones??

This is beside the point but there truly is no point in using Bayer aspirin vs the Wal-Mart brand. It truly is exactly the same thing...

[curiousB]

What the heck guys, You driving one of the best cars in America, You are not driving a Chevy or Ford.. Why not take care of it. How many of you take "BAYER" aspirin for you and family, or do you use the cheaper "WalMart" brand on your loved ones??

This is beside the point but there truly is no point in using Bayer aspirin vs the Wal-Mart brand. It truly is exactly the same thing...

This only gives further evidence of my point. Acetylsalicylic Acid is a chemical. Anyone can make it and to suggest one brand is better than another is just silly.

That there is some unwarranted feel good aspect to using premium fuel is also silly. Budhah seems to think it is better for the car. What if it was the case it made ZERO difference the entire life of the car and you chose to spend a few thousand dollars that could otherwise go towards better tires, more car washes/details (make your baby prettier), more frequent oil changes, or an extra dinner out a year with your significant other.

I think the premium fuel issue is a revenue and margin grab by the oil companies. The car companies add to it because they can quote slightly higher MPG on the EPA stickers. In the end we all pay for a marginal and unnecessary advantage.

[Budhah]

What the heck guys, You driving one of the best cars in America, You are not driving a Chevy or Ford.. Why not take care of it. How many of you take "BAYER" aspirin for you and family, or do you use the cheaper "WalMart" brand on your loved ones??

This is beside the point but there truly is no point in using Bayer aspirin vs the Wal-Mart brand. It truly is exactly the same thing...

Actually they are not the same. Generic brands are only required to be more than 85% of the original... Having taken Chemo, I am aware of the diff.. I also get a lot of my meds from Bangkok, which makes me even more aware.

Like all gas is not alike. Some premium grades are 91 octane, while others are 93 Octane.. I get better mileage with the higher octane. 24 vs 28 highway.

[Budhah]

What the heck guys, You driving one of the best cars in America, You are not driving a Chevy or Ford.. Why not take care of it. How many of you take "BAYER" aspirin for you and family, or do you use the cheaper "WalMart" brand on your loved ones??

This is beside the point but there truly is no point in using Bayer aspirin vs the Wal-Mart brand. It truly is exactly the same thing...

This only gives further evidence of my point. Acetylsalicylic Acid is a chemical. Anyone can make it and to suggest one brand is better than another is just silly.

That there is some unwarranted feel good aspect to using premium fuel is also silly. Budhah seems to think it is better for the car. What if it was the case it made ZERO difference the entire life of the car and you chose to spend a few thousand dollars that could otherwise go towards better tires, more car washes/details (make your baby prettier), more frequent oil changes, or an extra dinner out a year with your significant other.

I think the premium fuel issue is a revenue and margin grab by the oil companies. The car companies add to it because they can quote slightly higher MPG on the EPA stickers. In the end we all pay for a marginal and unnecessary advantage.

I had a 68 Pontiac Catalina, that would knock and run on with regular, but not with with Premium. ?? Ask any race car driver what they think,, When we were young and Drag racers we only used Prem in our cars...

I always thought that if you had to ask the price,,, you didn't belong in a LExus... LOL... Boy am I going to get it on that one..

By the way,, sign in lexus dealer today was labor at $129.95 an hour... Lady at the counter paid $395 for front brakes and oil change..

[SW03ES]

Actually they are not the same. Generic brands are only required to be more than 85% of the original... Having taken Chemo, I am aware of the diff.. I also get a lot of my meds from Bangkok, which makes me even more aware.

Look on the bottle. They display the ingredients and their levels on the bottle, they are exactly the same.

I always thought that if you had to ask the price,,, you didn't belong in a LExus... LOL... Boy am I going to get it on that one..

Totally ignorant. Only people who are foolish don't have some idea of value think that way, and we're seeing this now in how the economy is effecting people in different ways. Value is not for poor people, and the statement you make reeks of someone pretending to be a lot better off than they actually are.

Its also humerous because you drive a car that was designed to be a generic knockoff of a Mercedes for people who did not want to, or could not spend the premium to buy a Mercedes. I love the LS, its my favorite car on the road but the truth is the truth.

What makes it even more humerous is that someone can go out and buy an LS just like yours right now for the cost of a not even loaded Ford Taurus.

Don't flatter yourself.

People who are truly wealthy are a lot more value concious than you think, which is why Lexus owners have an average yearly income that is higher than much more expensive Mercedes models.

I had a 68 Pontiac Catalina, that would knock and run on with regular, but not with with Premium. ?? Ask any race car driver what they think,, When we were young and Drag racers we only used Prem in our cars...

Totally different situation. You can't compare the way an old carburated car reacted to fuel and the way a modern dynamic fuel injected Lexus will. Plus you just said it, your Catalina KNOCKED. The other poster is saying his LS runs fine.

As for race and drag cars, those cars are very high compression as compared to the pretty ordinary Toyota V8 in your LS. That engine is a great engine, but its not a high compression Porsche or Lamborghini engine, you're kidding yourself if you think it is.

If regular fuel doesn't hurt your fuel economy and cause any performance issues, go ahead and use it.

If you're saying you use premium fuel in your Lexus simply because it makes you feel rich and you think it makes you look rich to others? Thats really sad.

[Will B.]

If you're saying you use premium fuel in your Lexus simply because it makes you feel rich and you think it makes you look rich to others? Thats really sad.

No, it's true. I go to gas stations all the time checking out those rich people getting their premium fuel. Yesterday I was lucky enough to even get a photo of me taken with one! SCORE!

I agree with you on all points :) You get LS for the value, with the exception of maybe the LS600h. That one you get for the !Removed! enhancement.

[sarcilla]

I did a long road trip and tried both premium and regular unleaded in my 01 LS430 Ultra and there was no difference in fuel economy. I drive with cruise control and am a !Removed! about watching my average fuel efficiency while driving and keeping all records, so I was very interested to see if it made a difference. What really does make a difference is switching from going 70mph to 80mph - there are some nonlinear aero drag things going on there such that the 15% increase in speed results in a lot more than 15% drag.

As for the oil - I'm curious if anyone knows the Mobil One synthetic recommended oil change interval. I brought Mobil One into the Lexus dealership and now 5k later they say it doesn't make a difference - that I should still change the oil every 5k or 6 months. Are there any official sources on this? I'll be calling my warranty company to see if they have guidelines...

[AZ Mike]

I really wonder how important premium gas is. Most of the comments I read are conjecture and warm feelings. “My Lexus deserves nothing less” is hardly a scientific argument. What evidence is there that premium is any better for the engine?

Modern computerized engine controls adjust and optimize air/fuel/spark each cycle. These engines are already very finely tuned. Sure premium fuel has slightly more energy available but does it translate to better MPG? Maybe a bit but the true test would be $/mile that would balance out the extra cost of premium over standard gas. Has anyone done a clean A/B test and computed the $/mile of each?

I’ve run regular for >1 year in a 2004 LS430 with no perceptible difference in performance. Last time I checked the engine was still under my hood.

Directly from the owner's manual: "Select premium unleaded gasoline with an octane rating of 91 or higher for optimum engine performance. However, if such premium type cannot be obtained, you may temporarily use unleaded gasoline with an octane rating as low as 87."

Yes, your car's computer/emissions will adjust for fuel more prone to pinging. HOWEVER, in so doing, your engine is NOT operating at optimum performance due to the adjustment that is made to correct for the fuel. Generally, this will result in a slight decline in horsepower and fuel economy. In all likelihood, the use of regular unleaded will not damage anything, just lead to the aforementioned losses.

FWIW, the octane rating has NOTHING to do with "energy", as you say. The octane rating is a measure of the fuel's ability to resist predetonation (pinging).

[AZ Mike]

As for the oil - I'm curious if anyone knows the Mobil One synthetic recommended oil change interval. I brought Mobil One into the Lexus dealership and now 5k later they say it doesn't make a difference - that I should still change the oil every 5k or 6 months. Are there any official sources on this? I'll be calling my warranty company to see if they have guidelines...

Your recommended oil change interval is listed in your owner's manual. It is either 5,000 or 7,500 miles depending upon your driving circumstances. Do you think there will be a "more official" source than the manufacturer? Unless you want to send your used oil into a lab for analysis, you are best off sticking to the intervals recommended by Lexus. If you do send it to a lab, you can determine exactly how long you can go for an oil change interval with a given oil. Due to the cost of the analysis, you may not save much, if any, for any extended interval you determine based on the analysis.

[curiousB]

Directly from the owner's manual: "Select premium unleaded gasoline with an octane rating of 91 or higher for optimum engine performance. However, if such premium type cannot be obtained, you may temporarily use unleaded gasoline with an octane rating as low as 87."

Yes, your car's computer/emissions will adjust for fuel more prone to pinging. HOWEVER, in so doing, your engine is NOT operating at optimum performance due to the adjustment that is made to correct for the fuel. Generally, this will result in a slight decline in horsepower and fuel economy. In all likelihood, the use of regular unleaded will not damage anything, just lead to the aforementioned losses.

FWIW, the octane rating has NOTHING to do with "energy", as you say. The octane rating is a measure of the fuel's ability to resist predetonation (pinging).

Well yet another contradiction in the debate. Octane rating has nothing to do with energy yet you say regular fuel will be less optimum and slightly lower fuel economy. Well which is it? No difference or a difference? Sounds like doublespeak to me. Anyway others have posted that fuel mileage difference is imperceptable so if you want to pay +15% premium for the rest of your life to feel better go ahead. I have better places to spend the money.

[curiousB]

..."Prejudice and preference aside, engineers, scientists and the federal government say there's little need for premium."...

...""I personally use regular even though my owner's manual says you'll get better performance with premium," says Lewis Gibbs, consulting engineer and 45-year veteran at Chevron oil company. He's chairman of Technical Committee 7 on Fuels, part of the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) Fuels & Lubricants Council. Gibbs knows gas."...

..."The main advantage of premium-grade gas is that it allows automakers to advertise a few more horsepower by designing and tuning engines to take advantage of premium's anti-knock properties. But auto engineers generally agree that if you use regular in a premium engine, the power loss is so slight, most drivers can't tell."...

...""I go back and forth, and I'm hard-pressed to notice" whether there's regular or premium in the tank, says Jeff Jetter, principal chemist at Honda Research and Development Americas. He drives an Acura designed for premium.

Import brands, especially, use premium fuel to distinguish their upmarket models. Most Toyotas, for instance, are designed to run on regular or midgrade, while the automaker's Lexus luxury brand prefers (i.e. market positioning of brand rather than science) premium. Same with Honda and its Acura luxury line."...

..."Gasoline retailers and refiners like high-test because it's more profitable than regular-grade gas is. The retailer paid about 8 cents more for the premium you pay 20 cents more for"...

..."Today's engines use highly evolved versions of a device called a knock sensor to adjust settings automatically for low-octane gas. The engine control computers keep pushing to maximize performance on whatever grade of fuel is used."...

..."The only modern engines that should really need premium are those with superchargers, which force-feed fuel into the cylinders. "You're driving along and just !Removed! the gas and the knock sensor cannot sense the knock fast enough in some cases," because the supercharger boosts pressure so fast, says Bob Furey, chemist and fuels specialist at General Motors."...

..."Burning regular when the owner's manual specifies premium won't void the warranty, nor damage the engine, even the most finicky automakers say. "You're giving up perhaps just a little bit of performance that a customer wouldn't really even notice, it's so slight," says Furey."...

..."High-test does have a potential fuel economy benefit. It is slightly denser than lower-octane gas, meaning there's a little more energy in a gallon. But the small difference is hard to measure in real-world use, and that same density can contribute to undesirable buildup of waste products inside the engine."...

..."Guilt plays a part. Some people feel almost guilty, as if they are abusing their cars, when they don't burn premium, says gasoline retailer Jay Ricker, president of Ricker Oil of Anderson, Ind., which operates 28 stations. "They go all the way down to 87 (octane), but maybe every fourth tank they put in the good stuff.""...

So I'm voting to use regular and spend the money on an extra car wash or dinner out here or there. Emotions asside there doesn't seem to be very strong data to justify premium fuel.