Had An Accident - 1998 Ls400

[eatingupblacktop]

Interesting debate we have here. In my days as a two wheeled warrior (moto guzzi, ducati, laverda, and others), I've ridden bikes both on the street and in the bush. I have to say, after once hitting some gravel on a corner in a turn and doing a slow slide, and another time almost wiping out on some wet streetcar tracks after just slightly blipping the throttle in heavy traffic, I don't have the nerve to ride a bike on the street any more. On the other hand, I wouldn't hesitate pounding the dirt if my knees could handle it (one too many moguls skiing).

As for driving a four wheeled vehicle, the safest I ever felt was on the track. Everyone's going in the same direction, watching the other racers (all of whom have better driving skills than your typical urban driver), looking for an opening to pass - no pedestrians, no drunks, no kids popping out from behind parked cars, no cops, no big rigs barely staying awake - just hyper aggressive drivers all driving at their car's limit for staying on the track, trying to make you eat their exhaust. I'll take that any day over being on the road with women putting on their makeup, sales reps looking up their next appt's and texting notes, or recent somali immigrants who have never seen winter before, bootin' down the highway on summer tires with 2 inches of snow on the ground. Never mind the idiots on their cell phones going through red lights or poor slobs who don't have enough time to sit down to eat but prefer to use both hands to stuff their faces while steering with their knees. Makes me want to wear a helmet off the track as well.

I think the bottom line is there's an advantage to air bags. On the track, you've got adrenaline pumping through your system, your senses are on high alert, your reflexes are as quick as they can ever be, and you're strategizing the whole time. On the road, chances are you've relaxed with the cruise on or some tunes drowning out the road noise around you, maybe engaged in an interesting conversation with a passenger, or thinking about something other than what's happening right in front of you. Even the best driver in these circumstances doesn't have a chance to properly respond to an emergency situation and protect themselves as well or as quickly as an air bag can. We all think our reflexes are sharp and available on command. This might be true if you are driving in a hyper state of awareness for your whole trip. How often does that happen? ... Never!

Sure, there are occaisions when we're able to narrowly avoid a disaster - most of us have these survival/near miss stories to tell. In the end, it's all a matter of personal choice, comfort and confidence in deciding how much safety you really want or need while driving. Accidents can happen at any time and most likely when you least expect it. Isn't that why we carry insurance - because no matter how fast our responses, how safe our driving habits, how superior our car's safety rating, !Removed! happens and we all need some measure of reassurance that when we make a bad decision or some dumb yahoo slams into us, someone will be there to pick up the pieces! Go brave ... but go smart!

[LEXIRX330]

jpourcy, we actually agree on some points. Especially that it is ultimately a motorcyclists responsiblity for his exposing himself to danger.

Unfortunately, many motorcyclists who survive crashes with serious injuries are younger riders without health insurance -- guys in their late teens and 20's who haven't yet figured out that they aren't bulletproof. Who pays for their care and upkeep? We do through our taxes. We aren't a society that throws people in the trash bin just because they don't take care of themselves -- at least we aren't yet.

First off state laws are put in force to require helmets on motorcycles MD- have to wear one, DE- your choice. Same with Seat belt laws. I always wear a helmet on my motorcycle. When I was younger I rode a few times without - by the way had insurance. I find it funny that you feel that most people that ride motorcycles don't have health insurance and we end up paying for them. I would love to see some sort of study on that. I would be willing to bet the majority of motorcycle riders that are on the road have health insurance and great coverage as I do. Many people that ride are retirees, professionals, and there are some of the "crotch rocket" crowd that you speak of that may fit that stereotype that you have of all riders. I grew up riding motorcycles and I still ride my bike and I am aware of the danger of people driving cars! CAGES as we call them...that is how most motorcycle fatalities happen. I have two young children and a wife at home and every time that I get on my bike I ride extremely defensive because of idiots on the road with cell phones, texting, playing with their stereo...etc.

Yes I know people that have died...I know people that have gotten hurt as well. I have been banged up a few times from days of riding dirt bikes too. The most dangerous thing to a motorcyclists on the road is cars with drivers that are not paying attention. Can we make a law against that?

Now as far as airbags...I would not consider taken them out of my car nor can I even understand why someone would want to do such a thing. Why not disable the antilock brake system, VSC, etc. These things have greatly improved the safety of cars and have helped many people survive accidents that they would not have. I guess I am not following comparing a 1970's car or truck that did not come equipped with airbags, to a 2009 LS with Airbags and taking them out? I also don't see how saying people on motorcycles don't have airbags or seatbelts so why should we have them? Guess what HONDA GOLDWINGS have AIRBAGS on there bikes.

Let's not compare skydiving and mountain climbing to riding motorcycles. As one who has jumped out of perfectly good helicopters and fixed wing aircraft and climbed ice/snow covered mountains with ice axes and ropes and ladders to bridge seemingly bottomless crevasses, I'll take those "safe" activities any day compared to motorcycles.

You make a lot of sense to me? How about the hikers who scale up a mountain and end up stranded and the resources that go towards finding them in search and rescue? Why should we the TAX payers pay for that? I guess since you approve it is OK. You keep doing your safe activities...

[Steve Chambers]

I've been registered on LOC since 2005 and have enjoyed reading the forums and have gotten a lot of interesting and useful information from them. I have never posted until now, not having anything I thought of enough interest to post.

We've had three LS400's (a white 1991, totaled in an intersection collision, other driver at fault; a gold 1995, sold at 207k miles; and our current white with tan interior 1998. All were purchased used). A few weeks ago our 1998 suffered an unfortunate frontal collision with the car ahead (heavy traffic, less than 10 mph, totally my fault as driver) that deployed the two front airbags and front seat belts, and distorted the Instrument Panel (the dashboard as commonly described) on the passenger side when the airbag deployed. There was virtually no other visible damage (not even a scratch on the bumper!), other than under-the-hood tabs on the front bumper which I can remedy and am fine with. The insurance company totaled the car.

As a side comment, let me say that the airbag deployment "experience" was a little like you might imagine an I.E.D. in Iraq - noise, smoke and violence. Obviously not like an I.E.D. in terms of danger, but still a pretty startling experience.

I've looked for a 1998-2000 model replacement car, but haven't so far been able to find one fitting my criteria (must have a Nakamichi, no Nav, and color of white, gold, or dark green) at a price that makes sense. We have already "purchased" our car back from the insurance company at salvage value, so we now have the choice of either repairing the car for our use (replace the airbags, control module, seat belts and dash, and of course the car will have a salvage title), or selling the car as is. The car is cosmetically very nice, and I'm sure I can sell it for more than we paid the insurance company, if we choose to sell.

Has anyone out there pulled the dashboard out of an LS400, and can share their experience? As far as I can tell, getting to the passenger airbag and the control module requires dash, components, and center console removal. Also, I am not sure whether the left and right collision sensors (also in the interior front area) must be replaced. I have gotten conflicting information on that. If anyone has any info on this it would be helpful.

The seat belts seem relatively simple-I have already removed and reinstalled the driver side to extend the belt length for temporary use.

So, I'm also looking for the components to replace the restraint systems mentioned, used, from a 1998-2000 with Tan interior. Finding these items used is essential, as purchasing at new prices doesn't make financial sense. I tried to post on the "Buy-Sell" forum but I seem to be blocked (apparently because of my lack of posting in the 4 years I've been registered here.) If a moderator or anyone else can tell me how I might post on the Buy-Sell forum for these parts, that would be appreciated also.

Thanks (from Orange County, CA)

Well, let me apologize for my original post in which I was basically just seeking information. I had no intention of starting a thread on the efficacy of airbags. I guess you just never know where things will go ...

[1990LS400]

How about the hikers who scale up a mountain and end up stranded and the resources that go towards finding them in search and rescue? Why should we the TAX payers pay for that?

Actually for many years hikers and climbers have sometimes but not always been billed for rescue costs. I do not know what the criteria is when deciding when or when not to bill for a rescue.

[1990LS400]

Well, let me apologize for my original post in which I was basically just seeking information. I had no intention of starting a thread on the efficacy of airbags. I guess you just never know where things will go ...

Yeah, Steve, it's all your fault!

OK, as I've admitted before, I'm an over-the-top safety nut. I'll have to ask my now 86 year old father if he remembers how I hounded him in the 1950's until he had seat belts installed in our family car and then hounded both my parents to always use seat belts.

It really is wonderful how the per-miles-driven death rate from auto accidents has plummeted over the years. Airbags have been only one of many factors that have reduced the death rate.

Back in the 1950's and 1960's it seemed like we were always going to the funerals of people we knew and loved who had been killed in car crashes -- it didn't help that we lived on a seven mile stretch of Highway 24 that was documented as being the most dangerous section of highway in Missouri. Although not as frequent as in the past, we are still going to too many crash related funerals -- here is an article about the most recent one ... the 14 year old son of a co-worker: http://www.basehorinfo.com/news/2008/may/0...g_basehor_life/

IMO, dying in a vehicle crash is a particularly pointless way to go.

[nc211]

Fellas, getting a little touchy here on this topic. The name calling, and such, isn't really our way around here, don't cha' think?

As far as an airbag in your car: it's your call, it's your car, it's your responsibility to not only yourself, but your passenger too "if you take that one out too". I for one, don't know how a car that was equiped with an airbag to start with, can clear state safety inspections without one now? But, that's my thing. I've had them go off in my face, and aside from a slight chemical burn and a busted pair of sunglasses, I was thankful I had it, given the other option of eating a wood steering wheel and even worse neck/back/collar bone damage. Me? I'll take all the freakin' airbags I can get! Our old Mazda 3 "which wouldn't pass US safety standards without them", would practically turn into a raft, it had so many airbags.

Motorcycles: Some states require a helmet as LAW. Some don't. I've riden lots, and the last time I rode one, in NE Oklahoma in 2006, I came within 2 inches of "lights out" when I misjudged the exit bank of a country road turn and pushed too far out. That was the last time I'll ever be on one. You don't get a "do over" on a bike.

But, at the end of the day....it's your call what you want to do with your life, and so forth....

[Exhaustgases]

I know this is an old thread. But in the light of the millions of cars being recalled due to having a dangerous device that is known to harm the driver and fatalities have occurred from it, how does everyone feel about them now?

Also I would like to hear more about that insurance adjuster that reached in the window and touched the steering wheel and set off the air bag. Was the key on or off? Scary stuff.