Converting From Run Flat To Non-run Flat

[SC-Man]

I love my SC430 and purchased it used. It's a 2005 with less than 20,000. The ride is not what I expected from Lexus and have read a lot about the RFT. Many of you have replaced them with non-RFT and I intend to do the same. I see the popular tire choices in the Bridgestone, Michelin and Continental lines.

I live in Rochester NY and my first issue was to find a local garage who could actually support the removal and mounting of RFT, especially 245-40-18. This narrowed down the choices. Tire Rack is an option but there are very few of their local network who can handle that tire. Then I went to one of the big local tire chains. They actually have a policy that says they will not mount a non-run flat tire in replacement of a run-flat. I talked to my local Lexus dealership who says most of their customers have converted to NRF and they do the conversion at the dealership. The local tire store says they are bounded by the tire manufacturers rules and will not budge. Has anyone heard of this? Is there a "permission slip" that can be provided since the manufacturer themselves has no problem with this?

[JeepMan]

I recently purchased my 2002 SC430, which had about 63k on the odometer when I bought it. It had a set of Kuhmo Runflat Tires on it that were terrible. (This coincided with my past experience of Kuhmo tires on a Miata--they were some of the worst handling tires I've ever owned.) The Kuhmos were not only stiff and harsh-riding, but with the wide grooves around the circumference of the tire, they would grab road surface imperfections and literally heave the car around. I had to be really vigilant on the highways in the Seattle area to keep from being tossed into the next lane--literally!

I replaced the Kuhmos with a set of Toyo Proxes4 tires. I've had great experience with Toyo Proxes tires in the past, and these seem to be living up to my expectations. The tire shop (Les Schwab) didn't hesitate in replacing the Kuhmo Runflats with the Proxes--that discussion never arose. What I did was to purchase a tire plug kit to supplement the air pump I already had. My TPMS sensors are dead, but I'm going to replace them fairly soon. I consider them to be cheap insurance to catch a deflating tire before it blows out and shreds on the highway--I should be able to salvage it in that case. The set of Toyos, with installation and siping came to about $1100 including tax.

The Proxes4 tires are high-performance all-season tires, and so far they do pretty well, but I don't have a lot of miles on them yet. I figure I'll know better in about a year, but at this point, they're head and shoulders above the Kuhmos!

[SC-Man]

I'm not sure how to compare experiences with RF vs non-RF. I've heard some good things about Kuhmo non-RF but no one seems to be thrilled about RF tires, including me. There are a lot of choices out there and I'm trying to narrow them down a bit. I'm not sure I want to spend the big dollars (>$200) given the propensity for inside tire wear due to the camber adjustment, but looking at reviews and what people have talked about on this forum, these are what seem to come up most:

Michelin Pilot Sport A/S (over $200)

Bridgestone Potenza RE960AS Pole Position (just under $200)

Goodyear Eagle GT (under $150)

Conti Extreme Contact (under $150)

Conti Pro Contact (just over $200)

Yokohama Avid W4S (under $150)

I don't intend to do winter driving with this car so the "all season" is not important although I am told that all season doesn't necessarily mean all season. As for the tire store, thanks for your feedback and I'm not surprised others do it as the Lexus dealer does. They are losing a fair amount of business with this policy.

[SC-Man]

I appreciate hearing how others analyze the choices and make decisions so will do the same here to put complete this tire saga. All the tires I mentioned on the list I think are strong contenders. At the last hour, I found one more tire - the General Exclaim UHP. It is not the caliber of some of the others like the Bridgestone Potenza, but for my summer only driving and I'm not as performance focused as some others, the General seemed just the right tire for me. It did quite well on the Tire Rack ratings - handling, ride, traction, durability. I also read quite a few reviews on them and they did quite well by most although occasionally a very performance oriented driver panned them. The set cost less than $500 and given they are my first non RFT tires and some questions about camber / alignment, K thought they would be a good place to start before moving up to the higher performance tires.

[jgpilot]

I appreciate hearing how others analyze the choices and make decisions so will do the same here to put complete this tire saga. All the tires I mentioned on the list I think are strong contenders. At the last hour, I found one more tire - the General Exclaim UHP. It is not the caliber of some of the others like the Bridgestone Potenza, but for my summer only driving and I'm not as performance focused as some others, the General seemed just the right tire for me. It did quite well on the Tire Rack ratings - handling, ride, traction, durability. I also read quite a few reviews on them and they did quite well by most although occasionally a very performance oriented driver panned them. The set cost less than $500 and given they are my first non RFT tires and some questions about camber / alignment, K thought they would be a good place to start before moving up to the higher performance tires.

SC-Man, I too am looking to upgrade my 03 to NRF tires this summer. I stopped by my local Costco and they said without a spare, that they would not be able to sell me a set of new tires. They have good prices too! I would be very interested in hearing more from others who have made the change over to NRF's. Lets hear from you guys!

[SC-Man]

I must say it's surprising that these tire stores get so involved (over involved) in a driver's safety. Anyone could decide not to carry a spare. Once you move to NRF, I suspect there will be no questions even though you may not have a spare at that point either. With AAA/Road Service, flat kits and a portable compressor, there really isn't much risk. I'm guessing there must have been some law suits. I'm having the tires shipped to my local garage who specializes in high end cars and has not problem putting these on.

[JeepMan]

Interesting thing I discovered. When installing my Proxes 4 tires, my local Les Schwab told me my TPMS sensors were dead--they didn't register when they used their "reader" on them. I checked with my local Lexus of Bellevue (WA) dealership, and they told me that they have found that the Les Schwab "readers" don't do very well, so I made an appointment to have the sensors checked/replaced. (Important since I took off the run-flat tires.)

Being curious, today I decided to check the tires myself. I let pressure out of the tires and watched for the TPMS light on the dash--lo and behold, it came on at about 24 psi for each tire! I guess the sensors were indeed working, and the Lexus shop was right--the Les Schwab "reader" didn't to too well for these. (I canceled my appointment.)

The other thing I noticed is that Les Schwab had left one of my tires at about 45 psi after mounting it. The problem with that is that now that I have it back down to 33 psi (the factory rating), the TPMS sensor is on! Now I'm trying to contact my Lexus dealership to find out how to recalibrate the sensor for the proper pressure, since I don't plan to keep running one of the tires 12 psi above recommendations!

[irishvol]

Interesting thing I discovered. When installing my Proxes 4 tires, my local Les Schwab told me my TPMS sensors were dead--they didn't register when they used their "reader" on them. I checked with my local Lexus of Bellevue (WA) dealership, and they told me that they have found that the Les Schwab "readers" don't do very well, so I made an appointment to have the sensors checked/replaced. (Important since I took off the run-flat tires.)

Being curious, today I decided to check the tires myself. I let pressure out of the tires and watched for the TPMS light on the dash--lo and behold, it came on at about 24 psi for each tire! I guess the sensors were indeed working, and the Lexus shop was right--the Les Schwab "reader" didn't to too well for these. (I canceled my appointment.)

The other thing I noticed is that Les Schwab had left one of my tires at about 45 psi after mounting it. The problem with that is that now that I have it back down to 33 psi (the factory rating), the TPMS sensor is on! Now I'm trying to contact my Lexus dealership to find out how to recalibrate the sensor for the proper pressure, since I don't plan to keep running one of the tires 12 psi above recommendations!

The only complaint I've heard from folks about the SC is the RFTs. Mine were loud and rough and I removed them ASAP! I had great luck with Tire Rack. I ended up with Goodyear Eagle GT allseasons......they have been great! Great wet and dry performance. Relatively quiet, smooth and handle very well at a great price. If you're going to have the TPMS hooked up the price of installation goes up and in my opinion the feature is worthless....I've disconnected it. Hope this helps.

[BLAISERSC430]

I appreciate hearing how others analyze the choices and make decisions so will do the same here to put complete this tire saga. All the tires I mentioned on the list I think are strong contenders. At the last hour, I found one more tire - the General Exclaim UHP. It is not the caliber of some of the others like the Bridgestone Potenza, but for my summer only driving and I'm not as performance focused as some others, the General seemed just the right tire for me. It did quite well on the Tire Rack ratings - handling, ride, traction, durability. I also read quite a few reviews on them and they did quite well by most although occasionally a very performance oriented driver panned them. The set cost less than $500 and given they are my first non RFT tires and some questions about camber / alignment, K thought they would be a good place to start before moving up to the higher performance tires.

SCMAN,

Please let me know how you like your General Exclaim UHP. I am considering the Generals along with the Continental Extreme DWS to replace my runflats. Did you have to realign your rear end tires?

I actually took the negative camber out of the rear end alignment since I don't race or beat my SC 430. Please inform.

Regards,

Blaise

[A Sanchez]

I am about to replace my RF Michelon tires and am sticking to RFs. Why change the real design and intent of this vehicle? I can locally get 4ea 245 R 18 RF Perellis for $1125.00 out the door and i don't to change a thing. 

[A.O.]

On 6/2/2023 at 3:45 PM, A Sanchez said:

I am about to replace my RF Michelon tires and am sticking to RFs. Why change the real design and intent of this vehicle? I can locally get 4ea 245 R 18 RF Perellis for $1125.00 out the door and i don't to change a thing. 

Agreed, just had a new set of Michelin Pilot run flats installed on my '04, seems fine to me!

[Twinram]

On 9/27/2023 at 7:03 AM, A.O. said:

Agreed, just had a new set of Michelin Pilot run flats installed on my '04, seems fine to me!

Until you ride in a same car with a standard tire, then you will feel the difference.

[A.O.]

1 hour ago, Twinram said:

Until you ride in a same car with a standard tire, then you will feel the difference.

I am sure that is the case, but I have a while to wear these out first and then I'll figure it out. AND if I change, I'll have to track down a spare, and that takes up a lot of trunk space!

[Lexus-CT]

Since this tread started in 2009 tyres have been through some evolution and now you can have tyres with self-sealing layer inside so the rather stiff tyres that were made for armed vehicles long ago have competition where comfort is no longer missing.

The UltraContact we have on the CT are so much better (consume - handling – noise level) than the OEM tyres from factory that I can only believe that Lexus prefer Japanese tyres because they get them cheap or they are Japanese.

[A.O.]

1 hour ago, Lexus-CT said:

Since this tread started in 2009 tyres have been through some evolution and now you can have tyres with self-sealing layer inside so the rather stiff tyres that were made for armed vehicles long ago have competition where comfort is no longer missing.

The UltraContact we have on the CT are so much better (consume - handling – noise level) than the OEM tyres from factory that I can only believe that Lexus prefer Japanese tyres because they get them cheap or they are Japanese.

Makes sense!

[LovemySC430]

I just removed my run flats from my 2006 SC 430 with Continental's and the ride is so much smoother. I just now need to find a temp donut to put into the trunk. Any suggestions ?

[Lexus-CT]

27 minutes ago, LovemySC430 said:

I just removed my run flats from my 2006 SC 430 with Continental's and the ride is so much smoother. I just now need to find a temp donut to put into the trunk. Any suggestions ?

If you mean a spare wheel, I am happy not to have one. Have been using Quadboss sealant on mountain bike riding on razorblade-sharp lava splitter and thorns as long as fingers plus beautiful pointy cactus all around have kept me riding and I never had to walk home because of a flat.

A bottle in the trunk and an electric pump should handle more than 90% of flats. I used to buy from Quadboss but they are no longer selling to end-users so you will have to buy from one of the companies selling the sealant. A good thing about the sealant is that you can wash it away with just water.

Before I found Quadboss I used the dirty stuff latex that Lexus/Toyota have in their sealant and get that in and it will take a week to get the glue off the rims. Got latex on riding clothes and impossible to get away so new clothes needed.

A bike can take you places where cars cannot go. Maybe a Unimog can go to most.

[A.O.]

14 hours ago, Lexus-CT said:

If you mean a spare wheel, I am happy not to have one. Have been using Quadboss sealant on mountain bike riding on razorblade-sharp lava splitter and thorns as long as fingers plus beautiful pointy cactus all around have kept me riding and I never had to walk home because of a flat.

A bottle in the trunk and an electric pump should handle more than 90% of flats. I used to buy from Quadboss but they are no longer selling to end-users so you will have to buy from one of the companies selling the sealant. A good thing about the sealant is that you can wash it away with just water.

Before I found Quadboss I used the dirty stuff latex that Lexus/Toyota have in their sealant and get that in and it will take a week to get the glue off the rims. Got latex on riding clothes and impossible to get away so new clothes needed.

 

 

 

I have a plug kit and a small compressor I used to carry on my Harley, but if and when I get rid of my run flats I too will track down a spare for this guy!

[A.O.]

15 hours ago, LovemySC430 said:

I just removed my run flats from my 2006 SC 430 with Continental's and the ride is so much smoother. I just now need to find a temp donut to put into the trunk. Any suggestions ?

Just google it, several will pop up, including on ebay.

[Lexus-CT]

This picture should prove that a good sealant is worth having (not the one standard in Lexus cars):

Riding on trails where cacti and thorns are all over the place I sometimed had more than 5 holes in the tyres. Did not find out till I was home, as the holes were sealed immediately and almost no air loss.

As long as we are not politicians or (other) criminals, the hard old fashioned run-flat tyres are completely overkill.

[A.O.]

16 minutes ago, Lexus-CT said:

This picture should prove that a good sealant is worth having (not the one standard in Lexus cars):

Riding on trails where cacti and thorns are all over the place I sometimed had more than 5 holes in the tyres. Did not find out till I was home, as the holes were sealed immediately and almost no air loss.

As long as we are not politicians or (other) criminals, the hard old fashioned run-flat tyres are completely overkill.

You take your SC430 off road?

[Lexus-CT]

Just now, A.O. said:

You take your SC430 off road?

Do not take cars there, only mountain bikes.

That means that there is even less use for the old stiff tyres that can continue driving without air in them. Some premium tyres have self-sealing layer inside and are giving a comfortable close to no noise ride. 

[A.O.]

2 minutes ago, Lexus-CT said:

Do not take cars there, only mountain bikes.

That means that there is even less use for the old stiff tyres that can continue driving without air in them. Some premium tyres have self-sealing layer inside and are giving a comfortable close to no noise ride. 

I have a brand new set of Michelin Pilot run flats on my SC, they work and handle fine, no noise issue at all.

[Lexus-CT]

20 hours ago, A.O. said:

I have a brand new set of Michelin Pilot run flats on my SC, they work and handle fine, no noise issue at all.

Then run flats are better now than long time ago.

Probably still heavy for very little reason.

[Twinram]

On 10/26/2023 at 5:26 AM, A.O. said:

I have a brand new set of Michelin Pilot run flats on my SC, they work and handle fine, no noise issue at all.

Have you run both types on the car?  Until you can say yes you're missing out on a much better ride and performance overall. 

If you don't believe me go talk to an honest tire shop, not one trying to up sell you but one that wants to fit you and your car properly.