Service Pickup Discontinued

[gocardinals]

Wow, I started this thread, and never thought it would take off like this.

There is a lot of interesting debate going on!

I have leased 6 cars from this dealership since 2001 - 3 Audis, 2 Mercedes Benz and 1 Lexux. All six came with the promise of my salesperson of the pick up service. Lexus was supposed to have the added promise of a free car wash any time I stopped by the dealership, along with the guarantee of a Lexus loan.

I appreciate everybody's insight.

[SW03ES]

I apologize in advance...this is gonna be long...

Perhaps I didn't express my point well.

What part of this says anything about "fixed"???

"Or your mortgage bank for your home loan.... they may want raise your APR. If you read your signed contract carefully, you will find in the small print that your mortgage company can ask for the money they loaned you for your house..... to be paid in full upon demand!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :o Let us know what you find."

I understand the "clause"... the bank still can ask for their loan to be paid in full... it's in my contract, whether they choose to demand it or not.

Just to preface this...this is what I do for a living.

Even with an adjustable mortgage, they can't just adjust it whenever they want. There are specific times and for specific amounts depending on the loan. There are also lifetime caps, limits to how much they can be increased in any given year. Its not like a credit card. Your loan documents agree to a certain margin, or cushion above a specific interest rate indicator (usually LIBOR but it can be any rate index) where the rate can be. So for the sake of argument if your margin is 1% and the LIBOR is at 3% when the loan adjusts then your rate is 4%. If another year goes by and the LIBOR is 6% your loan is 4.5%. Why? Because there is a maximum cap of 1.5% that the loan can increase in a given year. Lets say the LIBOR goes up to 15%. Whats your loan? 9% because thats the lifetime cap, the most it can ever be.

Now, all the numbers are just fake made up for illustration, but the point is they can't make your rate whatever they want.

And the lender CAN NOT call your loan due whenever they want. You have to be in default. Doesn't matter what your loan does or doesn't say, trust me I've read dozens of sets of loan documents and read the federal law. Even though they can do that should you be in default they won't. I can't prove they won't, I can just offer you my experience having dealt with over a dozen situations in the past couple years where homeowners are in default and lenders could call the loans due. They won't do that because they know they won't collect, they negotiate short sales and foreclose instead.

Here is the definition of the acceleration clause as pertains to mortgage loans:

"A clause commonly included in mortgages and bonds that gives the holder the right to demand the entire outstanding balance be paid in the event of default. Without this clause, the mortgagee may have to file separate foreclosure suits as each installment of the mortgage debt falls due and is in default. The most common reasons for accelerating a loan are if the borrower defaults on the loan or transfers title to another individual without informing the lender."

Source: http://www.docloan.com/loans/loan_terms/acceleration-clause

Again, this is what I do for a living and I am correct. If you think your loan documents say that you're missing something else buried within the documents. They can do it in the event of default.

I'm not a lawyer, but if a car salesperson says "Part of our service includes pick up and delivery"... that feature or benefit is part of the sale of vehicle. There are implied and expressed warranties. Also, in contract law there is something called "misrepresentation" - verbal or written. If the salesman added "free pick up and delivery service" as part of his close, it would be misrepresentation if that benefit was then excluded after the contract was signed.

I'm not a lawyer either, but I deal with contracts of sale every day and this is not true. You are correct that oral contracts can be enforceable, but the law addresses contracts of a certain caliber and says that they must be in writing to be enforceable, this is called the statute of frauds.

If I say I'll pay you $100 to paint my fence, you paint it, and I don't pay you I'm in breach of contract. However the uniform commercial code states that any contract for the purchase of a good or service over $500 in value must be in writing to be enforceable. This varies from state to state, but every state has a level at which a contract must be in writing, and its below $1,000 in every state. Thus, any contract for the sale of a car MUST be in writing to be enforceable, and any terms not laid out in that contractual document are NOT a part of the contract.

Believe me, I've been in many situations with people buying and selling $700,000 homes where the buyer says the seller said he was going to leave the couch, or the patio furniture, or whathaveyou. The question always is "Great, where in the contract does it say the seller agreed to leave those items?" If it doesn't, the buyer is out of luck. This is the same situation.

Because the loan or lease documents do not have a specific LIST of every item on the vehicle, it does not mean that you are not buying what was agreed upon and sold to you by the seller - and that includes "We will pick up and deliver your car for service".

This is incorrect. The contract of sale AND the lease or loan documents ABSOLUTELY says EXACTLY what you are buying because it includes the vehicle's VIN. The VIN identifies a specific vehicle, and thus includes whatever is contained on that specific vehicle.

Find me a contract of sale or loan or lease document that says in writing that the owner is due any kind of service from the dealership. You won't find one because the dealership is not a party to the contract as I said before.

If I buy a car and pay cash or finance it through my own bank, does that mean the car dealer I bought it from now has NO legal responsibilites to honor the contact of the sale??

No, they have the responsibility to deliver you X car for Y consideration. Once they have done that the transaction is over and that dealer no longer has any responsibility under the contract of sale and niether do you. After that the contract is satisfied.

if your Lexus is proven defective, then your recourse for repair will be through the financial institution that provided the loan???????????? So, in my case, when a TSB for a defective fuel line is published, I call up my credit union and say "I'm bring'n my car in and you need to fix it????????????

Again, incorrect. The financial institution that has financed the vehicle has NO responsibility for any repairs or warranties. Will your mortgage lender fix your leaky pipe? No.

Your credit union will tell you to go away.

LEXUS is a party to the written warranty agreement and they must make repairs for covered items, but a specific Lexus dealer can refuse to even service your vehicle. The dealer isn't even a party to the warranty agreement. The dealer can do warranty work and charge Lexus...if they want... but they don't have to. They have the right to refuse service to anyone, as any private business does.

There is nothing in my loan documents for the IS250 that states I am buying tinted glass and chrome wheels, however, during the negotiation with the salesman, we agreed that those two items will be included in sale price.

Just because you agreed to something and didn't put it in writing and it worked out okay for you doesn't mean you don't have to get things you agree to in writing for them to be enforceable.

So, my suggestion to everyone is if the dealer says you'll get tinted glass and chrome wheels...get it in writing...or its not enforceable.

Anyways vehicle equipment is a different matter, you can always refuse to take delivery of the car if the chrome wheels and window tinting aren't installed. In this situation we are months past the time that the sales contract was satisfied, and this person has no grounds at all to force the dealer to make good on something they offered when he bought the car that they no longer offer.

My "assumptions" and experiences may be wrong, however, I will stand by my statements until you show me where my statements are "far from the truth".

I think I have clearly shown I have more than a passing knowledge on the subjects we're discussing. I really don't care if you continue to believe as you wish or not.

For everyone out there who might be looking at this thread for guidance...We're right and he's wrong.

[SW03ES]

Happens to all of us from time to time

Even me! ;)

[LZGNY]

i was doing my service appt. in other lexus dealership and they told me that loaner vehicle will be available one week later, they asked if i want to come or wait one more week, i rescheduled appoinment for next week and drove loaner vehicle away...they HAVE to give you loaner vehicle

[tex2670]

i was doing my service appt. in other lexus dealership and they told me that loaner vehicle will be available one week later, they asked if i want to come or wait one more week, i rescheduled appoinment for next week and drove loaner vehicle away...they HAVE to give you loaner vehicle

The Lexus corporate policy is that a loaner is issued for any warranty work 8 hours or more, or overnight. Loaners provided for anything less than this are a courtesy by the dealer.

[tex2670]

i was doing my service appt. in other lexus dealership and they told me that loaner vehicle will be available one week later, they asked if i want to come or wait one more week, i rescheduled appoinment for next week and drove loaner vehicle away...they HAVE to give you loaner vehicle

The Lexus corporate policy is that a loaner is issued for any warranty work 8 hours or more, or overnight. Loaners provided for anything less than this are a courtesy by the dealer.

tex...

You seem to know quite a bit about the "Lexus corporate policy" and other authoritative issues.... you must be a Lexus dealer or very close the car dealership business model??? ... or you have just done a bunch of research???

Which is it?? Just curious.

Neither--I just read it somewhere. I thought on the website, but when I tried to look for it, I just found the CPO loaner policy:

http://www.lexus.com/cpo/overview/warranty.html

Considering how they hype the CPO program, and that it's as good as a new Lexus, the policy for CPO and new loaners would be the same.

And--I spend way too much time here, and on Club Lexus. :P

[SW03ES]

i was doing my service appt. in other lexus dealership and they told me that loaner vehicle will be available one week later, they asked if i want to come or wait one more week, i rescheduled appoinment for next week and drove loaner vehicle away...they HAVE to give you loaner vehicle

Not true, as Tex said the corporate policy is a loaner must be given for WARRANTY work that will take 8 hours or more. Most dealers offer loaners much more liberally.

And remember, the OP's dealer wasn't saying they wouldn't give him a loaner, they're saying they won't pick up and drop the vehicle off anymore.

tex...

You seem to know quite a bit about the "Lexus corporate policy" and other authoritative issues.... you must be a Lexus dealer or very close the car dealership business model??? ... or you have just done a bunch of research???

Which is it?? Just curious.

I'm sure Tex is the same as me, someone who has been around these cars for a long time and around these forums for a long time...you pick a lot of stuff up.