Running Ox Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 Does it really lead to leakage?( 2004 RX330, 67000miles) What the real difference between dino oil and synthetic? Is that changing with dino oil every 3000 miles equal to with synthetic every 5000 miles?
lenore Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 Yes you can switch, I did at 104k miles and everything is fine. I would definetly switch, as many of these mondern engines run extremely hot and are prone to sludge. Case in point are the 3 liter engine on the earlier RX family and all of the toyota products with the 1mze engine. As for oil changes, well you could probably go 3k to 4k miles and be assured of no sludge with a good synthetic. That is another story as all synthetics are not equal. A true synthetic is a class 4 oil and different manufacturers dont all use a true synthetic base, some use dino oil base stocks. Mobil 1 was just caught lying about their oil after the hurricanes. Castrol Oil 0-30 European formula is a true synthetic and performs very well, but also very pricey at over $6.00 per qt. I have seen the results of sludge with my neighbors highlander with only 50k miles and oil changes done by Toyota at the prescribed intervals...not a pretty sight and he is now rebuilding that engine...
tmastres Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 Yes you can definitely switch (and should). Mobil 1 is a fine oil and will serve you well, much better than dino. If you can find the German Castrol, its a great oil as well. For accuracy sake the 0-30 Mobil is also a PAO (polyalfaolefine) group IV just like the Castrol however the 5-30 has been changed to group III, which means it does have some mineral oil as a base but doesnt put it in the same class as common Dino oil. If you're really interested in the oil issue get onto the BITOG (bob is the oil guy) site , the issue is beaten to death there. Mobil 1 , Amsoil, Castrol Syntec, Pennzoil Platinum. All are great synthetic oils. Change em every 4-5k miles and you'll be fine.
artbuc Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 Yes you can definitely switch (and should). Mobil 1 is a fine oil and will serve you well, much better than dino. If you can find the German Castrol, its a great oil as well. For accuracy sake the 0-30 Mobil is also a PAO (polyalfaolefine) group IV just like the Castrol however the 5-30 has been changed to group III, which means it does have some mineral oil as a base but doesnt put it in the same class as common Dino oil. If you're really interested in the oil issue get onto the BITOG (bob is the oil guy) site , the issue is beaten to death there. Mobil 1 , Amsoil, Castrol Syntec, Pennzoil Platinum. All are great synthetic oils. Change em every 4-5k miles and you'll be fine. My wife's RX now has 92k miles and has had oil/oil filter change every 3k (or 3 months) with Castrol dino 5-30W oil. Removed valve cover and engine is clean as a whistle. Why should I change to synthetic at this point? I'm not arguing against synthethic, just don't see any reason to make the change.
carguy07 Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 Yes you can definitely switch (and should). Mobil 1 is a fine oil and will serve you well, much better than dino. If you can find the German Castrol, its a great oil as well. For accuracy sake the 0-30 Mobil is also a PAO (polyalfaolefine) group IV just like the Castrol however the 5-30 has been changed to group III, which means it does have some mineral oil as a base but doesnt put it in the same class as common Dino oil. If you're really interested in the oil issue get onto the BITOG (bob is the oil guy) site , the issue is beaten to death there. Mobil 1 , Amsoil, Castrol Syntec, Pennzoil Platinum. All are great synthetic oils. Change em every 4-5k miles and you'll be fine. My wife's RX now has 92k miles and has had oil/oil filter change every 3k (or 3 months) with Castrol dino 5-30W oil. Removed valve cover and engine is clean as a whistle. Why should I change to synthetic at this point? I'm not arguing against synthethic, just don't see any reason to make the change. You live in a cold climate so wait until it's 5 or 10 degrees outside. Leave a quart of dino and a quart of synthetic outside over night. In the morning pop them open and pour. You will never use dino again.
ZFORCE Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 Does it really lead to leakage?( 2004, 67000miles) What the real difference between dino oil and synthetic? Is that changing with dino oil every 3000 miles equal to with synthetic every 5000 miles? Basically, the real difference is that synthetic is a more durable and slippery lubricant. Dino oil is not=to synthetic at any mileage interval, they are different products that are used to perform the same function. Your question should be, Will Dino be as effective in lubricating your engine and if so, when do you need to change it? Yes it will be effective, and any SAE oil changed at 3000 miles (or even 6,000 miles) will be effective. Consumer reports did a study on motor oil and they found that any SAE oil will not break down before 3,000 miles. Consumer Reports ran oil in similar cars and changed the oil in one group at 3k and 6k in the other group. Both sets of engines were torn down and no appreciable difference in wear was noted at all! Actually you are probably even safe at 7,500 mile intervals. The oil companies are the ones that pushed 3,000 miles to the point that everyone seems to be snowballed into believing the propaganda. If you look at old automobile manuals, you will find that almost all manufacturers used to recommend 7,500 miles as the change interval. Link to the report http://www.moneybluebook.com/articles/cons...s.oilchange.php And as all research, there are those that say the testing was invalid / flawed etc, etc. The bottom line, change your oil regularly and consistently, and your engine will die from something else.
code58 Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 Yes you can definitely switch (and should). Mobil 1 is a fine oil and will serve you well, much better than dino. If you can find the German Castrol, its a great oil as well. For accuracy sake the 0-30 Mobil is also a PAO (polyalfaolefine) group IV just like the Castrol however the 5-30 has been changed to group III, which means it does have some mineral oil as a base but doesnt put it in the same class as common Dino oil. If you're really interested in the oil issue get onto the BITOG (bob is the oil guy) site , the issue is beaten to death there. Mobil 1 , Amsoil, Castrol Syntec, Pennzoil Platinum. All are great synthetic oils. Change em every 4-5k miles and you'll be fine. My wife's RX now has 92k miles and has had oil/oil filter change every 3k (or 3 months) with Castrol dino 5-30W oil. Removed valve cover and engine is clean as a whistle. Why should I change to synthetic at this point? I'm not arguing against synthethic, just don't see any reason to make the change. You live in a cold climate so wait until it's 5 or 10 degrees outside. Leave a quart of dino and a quart of synthetic outside over night. In the morning pop them open and pour. You will never use dino again. This is apples and oranges, I realize, but there a gagillion vehicles out there that have no idea what synthetic oil is and a lot of them will run a lot more miles that the vehicles that use synthetic. That's not to badmouth synthetic, that would be utterly foolish. I'm only saying if you change your oil with a good dino at 3-5k mi. and with synthetic at 5-10k mi. the largest chances are both of those vehicles will go to the junk yard WITHOUT engine failure or repair at 200-250k mi. If you believe you have to run synthetic to get long life out of a vehicle, Google "Million Mile Van". Approaching 1,000,100 miles WITHOUT ever having the heads or pan off! It's for real, and it's not the first either. And never a drop of anything but dino! Synthetic is good stuff, but not necessary for long life.
artbuc Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 Does it really lead to leakage?( 2004, 67000miles) What the real difference between dino oil and synthetic? Is that changing with dino oil every 3000 miles equal to with synthetic every 5000 miles? Basically, the real difference is that synthetic is a more durable and slippery lubricant. Dino oil is not=to synthetic at any mileage interval, they are different products that are used to perform the same function. Your question should be, Will Dino be as effective in lubricating your engine and if so, when do you need to change it? Yes it will be effective, and any SAE oil changed at 3000 miles (or even 6,000 miles) will be effective. Consumer reports did a study on motor oil and they found that any SAE oil will not break down before 3,000 miles. Consumer Reports ran oil in similar cars and changed the oil in one group at 3k and 6k in the other group. Both sets of engines were torn down and no appreciable difference in wear was noted at all! Actually you are probably even safe at 7,500 mile intervals. The oil companies are the ones that pushed 3,000 miles to the point that everyone seems to be snowballed into believing the propaganda. If you look at old automobile manuals, you will find that almost all manufacturers used to recommend 7,500 miles as the change interval. Link to the report http://www.moneybluebook.com/articles/cons...s.oilchange.php And as all research, there are those that say the testing was invalid / flawed etc, etc. The bottom line, change your oil regularly and consistently, and your engine will die from something else. Great link. I do have a couple comments. First, I have read (somewhere way back) that mostly all engine wear occurs during the first few seconds after an engine is started so I wonder how valid the NYC taxi test is. Also, my brother-in-law is a master mechanic who owns his own shop. He has been tearing down and rebuilding engines for over 40 years. He says you don't start seeing the benefits of good oil change maintenance for at least 150k miles. IOW, engines with 60k miles will look pretty much the same whether they have had 3k changes with deluxe oil or 6k changes with cheap oil. So, he isn't surprised by the NYC taxi results and doesn't think they necessarily mean anything.
jgr7 Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 On the leak issue, the only time I ever tried a syn blend on my old 2000 RX it started leaking at the rear oil seal right after I changed the oil, the next day. It leaked for about a month then stopped. The next time I changed I went back to Castrol GTX 5-W30. No leaking again. Jeff
culver Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 Ahh.. the ol dino vs synth thread. Wow... I think I've read one of these threads since I invented the internet.I've switched back and forth in almost every one of my vehicles. Didn't notice any more or less oil leaks. There's been a few studies on the subject, but nothing that is extremely conclusive, considered real scientific, and always debatable. Even the self-proclaimed experts on oil analysis (UOA) admits there's really no difference in terms of engine wear. Since most engine failure is NOT attributed to the lubricating oil, it's attributed to something else (usually neglect, abuse, mis-use, premature mechanical failure). Using synthetic over petroleum based crankcase oil has yet to be proven to really extend the life of average engine to any significance in terms of the main component wear (bearings, rings, cylinders, crankshaft, camshaft, etc). Show me some certified test data!! Synthetic oil has a few benefits over dino oil. It's flow charactistics are better at lower ambient temperatures. So if I lived in an extremely cold climate, I'd be using synthetic oil and lubricants in my crankcase, tranny, differentials, etc. Does the cost of synthetic vs dino provide the value or return on investment on extended engine wear or extended miles between oil changes for the average driver-car owner? It does however, provide a nice sense of "I feel better when I put the more expensive oil in my car". If it "feels" better use synthetic. If you don't feel the value, use dino oil. I ran Mobil One and Castrol Full Synthetic for years, and before that ran Valoline and Castrol GTX oils for years, I can say that I really did NOT noticed any differences in engine wear. I use dino oil now. The Lexus dealer uses dino for my wife's IS250. In my high mileage Toyota truck (over 200K miles) I did notice that on really cold mornings (cold for Phoenix - 30 to 35 degrees F), the old engine would not "rattle" so loud at cold starts when I had Mobil One in the crankcase. Was the Mobil One better for the engine? YES. Is the amount of "better" measureable? - probably not. That's just my worthless opinion. This chap is spot on the money. Use syns if you want to pamper your baby, but don't do it for financial reasons unless you really plan to keep your car well over 150,000 miles - probably much much more. Also... Since over 50% of Lexus' are leased anyway, this discussion has no bearing on those cars whatsoever. Who in their right mind would make the synthetic investment for a car they plan on turning in in a few years. Also... Few folks realize that dino oils have made significant advances in the past 20 years. The dino oil you buy today has a much better formulation than just a few years ago; to such an extent that entirely new wear and service classifications have been created. This small fact is almost entirely overlooked when forums such as these debate the differences. I get routine oil changes, from routine guys, using routine (yet correct) oil. My cars have no trouble heading well over 100,000 and don't burn more than half a quart between changes. Usually the fenders fall off, or I grow bored of the car, before I get material engine wear. I don't need a better argument for dino oils than that.
pauljcl Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 How about the "LEAK" issue? Here's an answer off of Castrol's site: FACT or MYTH? Synthetic motor oil will ruin the seals in older vehicles and cause leaks. Answer: MYTH! We're not sure who leaked that rumor, but synthetic motor oil does not cause leaks. It is 100% compatible with all automotive seal and gasket materials. In fact, SYNTEC meets additional ACEA seal protection requirements not even addressed in API specs. Someone on this site, in a similar topic, noted that it may be that synthetic oil is 'slippier' and thus might 'slip past' the gasket/seal more than regular dino oil. This is not a sign of seal damage, but of oil 'quality'. Makes sense....
Running Ox Posted January 9, 2009 Author Posted January 9, 2009 If the leak happens, can i just switch back to dino oil and the will the leak be gone?
pauljcl Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 If the leak happens, can i just switch back to dino oil and the will the leak be gone? I have no idea. Presumably, if a leak occurs, one repairs the leak (changes the gasket or seal) because it indicates a weakness.
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