mikey00 Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Try looking up issues reported for... i don't know, maybe the 02 to 06 Ford Explorers. The 02 and 06 Explorer share the same engine, same transmission. I'd be willing to bet you that the 02's have more complaints than the 06's! I took your idea, but instead of looking up one car in NHTSA complaints, I used Consumer reports data based on over 1.4 million surveys on all cars. The data supports your theory. Average Problem Rates for all cars -----------------99-----00----01----02---03-----04----05----06-----07----08 Trans Major-----3------3-----3-----3-----2-------1-----1------1----<1----<1 Trans Minor-----4------3-----3-----3-----2-------2-----2------2------1------1 Drive System---6------5-----5-----5-----4-------4-----3------2------2------1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmastres Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Unless someone takes apart a 99 tranny and an 03 tranny and shows me the difference, i won't believe it. Just doesn't make sense to me that Lexus would change it. I surmise they changed them because they noticed an unusual amount of tranny problems coming into the dealerships. They also changed the AWD system in 01 to the VSC system just to show that they were perfectly willing and to change major aspects of the vehicle. But hey, as I said before I don't have any vested interest in changing your minds, believe what you will, others can make up their own minds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cduluk Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 This VSC system was added for the 01 models, which STILL have an inordinate amt of tranny problems according to all the reports! The VSC system wouldn't cause/prevent the failure that happens to so many rx300 transmissions. It's like adding chrome handles and claiming it makes the air conditioning blow hot air. I want pictures of the differences between the 99 + 00 tranny and the 02 + 03 tranny that would prevent the failure. <_< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikey00 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Unless someone takes apart a 99 tranny and an 03 tranny and shows me the difference, i won't believe it. Just doesn't make sense to me that Lexus would change it. I surmise they changed them because they noticed an unusual amount of tranny problems coming into the dealerships. They also changed the AWD system in 01 to the VSC system just to show that they were perfectly willing and to change major aspects of the vehicle. But hey, as I said before I don't have any vested interest in changing your minds, believe what you will, others can make up their own minds. It's hard to believe that they had enough time to recognize the problem and implement a design change given the small number of tranny failures early on. And even if they did why is there still a high failure rate in 01? And yes VSC was added in 01 which has nothing to do with the tranny. I am still searching for that "well documented" changes to the 01 tranny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cduluk Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Another thing- those statistics were based on the # of reports/year, not percentage per vehicles sold. They sold more 99's and 00's than 02's and 03's. More cars on the road would yield a higher number of failures. After the Rx came out, a lot of competitors came out with SUV's similar to the RX which took some customers away. This meant less Rx's were sold after maybe 01 or so. Just think about it, how many 02 and 03's do you see on the road today?- not many. In 03, 6 years after the 99's were in production, how many 99's and 00's did you see on the road? A LOT. Bottom line is that there were more 99's and 00's on the road, traveling more miles, experiencing more hot summers and cold winters, which lead to more complaints than the 02's and 03's which there were very few of. It's common sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmastres Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 You guys make some valid points, but just clarify I don't think the VSC caused any trans problems I was just using it as an example of major things that changed early on. Also tranny problems that showed up at dealerships early on would have been warranty repairs so there wouldn't be complaints to any public agencies. You guys believe one way I believe the other, anyone else that reads this will have plenty of info to form their own opinions on, I'm movin on from this thread. Thanks for the info though. More fodder for debate on this issue can be found here http://www.clublexus.com/forums/rx300-foru...x300-awd-2.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikey00 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 You guys make some valid points, but just clarify I don't think the VSC caused any trans problems I was just using it as an example of major things that changed early on. Also tranny problems that showed up at dealerships early on would have been warranty repairs so there wouldn't be complaints to any public agencies. You guys believe one way I believe the other, anyone else that reads this will have plenty of info to form their own opinions on, I'm movin on from this thread. Thanks for the info though. More fodder for debate on this issue can be found here http://www.clublexus.com/forums/rx300-foru...x300-awd-2.html I didn't mean to insinuate that VSC caused any trans problems. I am just saying that it has nothing to do with the trans discussion same as increasing the gas tank size in 01 has nothing to do with it. I did do some searching as you suggested looking for "well documented changes" and did read the links you provided but everything seemed to indicate no trans change was made in 01 except for 1 speculation by wwest. He even goes on to claim the change causes overheating of the ATF causing more failures. But I guess that's a whole different discussion. Also the link you provided above suggests that no change was made until DBW came along in 04. NHTSA numbers also suggest that 01 trans are failing at the same rate as 00 trans were failing a year previously. I didn't post the Consumer Reports numbers for the 99-03 RX but they suggest the same. I think this discussion went from "00 to 01 changes are well documented and anyone who disagrees is going against established facts" to "maybe they made some changes to the trans in 01 because they made other unrelated changes and might have seen some warranty trans failures by then". I do agree with that and hope they did make some changes, I am just saying we have no facts to support it. If I were looking for a used RX I would definetely not get anything older than 02, just in hope that they don't follow the same failure pattern as the previous years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccldwll Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 You guys make some valid points, but just clarify I don't think the VSC caused any trans problems I was just using it as an example of major things that changed early on. Also tranny problems that showed up at dealerships early on would have been warranty repairs so there wouldn't be complaints to any public agencies. You guys believe one way I believe the other, anyone else that reads this will have plenty of info to form their own opinions on, I'm movin on from this thread. Thanks for the info though. More fodder for debate on this issue can be found here http://www.clublexus.com/forums/rx300-foru...x300-awd-2.html I didn't mean to insinuate that VSC caused any trans problems. I am just saying that it has nothing to do with the trans discussion same as increasing the gas tank size in 01 has nothing to do with it. I did do some searching as you suggested looking for "well documented changes" and did read the links you provided but everything seemed to indicate no trans change was made in 01 except for 1 speculation by wwest. He even goes on to claim the change causes overheating of the ATF causing more failures. But I guess that's a whole different discussion. Also the link you provided above suggests that no change was made until DBW came along in 04. NHTSA numbers also suggest that 01 trans are failing at the same rate as 00 trans were failing a year previously. I didn't post the Consumer Reports numbers for the 99-03 RX but they suggest the same. One thing not being mentioned is the impact very minor changes could have on tranny durability--replacing a weak part or simply reflashing/recalibrating the PCM--which wouldn't show up as redesign. I think this discussion went from "00 to 01 changes are well documented and anyone who disagrees is going against established facts" to "maybe they made some changes to the trans in 01 because they made other unrelated changes and might have seen some warranty trans failures by then". I do agree with that and hope they did make some changes, I am just saying we have no facts to support it. If I were looking for a used RX I would definetely not get anything older than 02, just in hope that they don't follow the same failure pattern as the previous years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyShaft Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Well, with the Consumer Reports (with 1.4 million surveys!) being the gold-standard of of all info automotive, I guess we can agree that the RX is not only recommended for every year from 1999 up in the used car ratings, the RX as a group is also listed as "Best of the Best" in the Used Car Recommendations. The question is solved and the science is settled...thanks Consumer Reports (with 1.4 million surveys!)!! Yay RX! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lenore Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Remember one thing the 1.4 million is not all RX300 owners.....could be 2 or 3 for just that make... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyShaft Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Remember one thing the 1.4 million is not all RX300 owners.....could be 2 or 3 for just that make... :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikey00 Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Remember one thing the 1.4 million is not all RX300 owners.....could be 2 or 3 for just that make... It's definetly not just 2 or 3. If CR doesn't get enough surveys for a particular model it is listed as "insufficient data". You will see a number of models listed as such in the latest annual car issue. I do find it interesting that they continue to list the RX as a "Good Bet" for a used car but when you look at the "Trans Major" category the older models are well below average. All other areas are at least average with most coming in well above average which i guess is why it keeps it's good rating. Even the with the engine sludge issue, the engine maintains an above average rating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sktn77a Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 You can't compare the Consumer Reports numbers with the NHTSA numbers. Consumer Reports sends out a general solicitation to a random sample of its subscribers. NHTSA gets reports ONLY from people who experience problems (the populations and denominators of each are totally different). So while comparing vehicles within the NHTSA database or within the CR database is valid, comparing across databases is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyShaft Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Agreed. And the Lexus forums are a bad place for statistical data on problems as well. If a guy is faced with a $4000 tranny replacement, you can guarantee 98% of them will head for the internet and post the issue. People who never have a problem will not seek out the forums to say how problem-free they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.